Maverick ZINE — Tattoo Culture, Art & Artist Stories

Cashed in our 401ks everything that we had saved up until that point in our life and we just said let's just throw this at the wall see if it sticks yeah it was a big ass Hail Mary here's what I'm excited to talk about today we have a really long history together personally I'm super intrigued to hear some of the old stories of us starting to tattooing you starting to tattoo the origin story is pretty fun and interesting you didn't have any tattoos before zero tattoos yeah so what was your some of your first like exposures to tattoo and tattooing and stuff and like fun little story that I was riding I had been riding motorcycles most of my life I think I started riding motorcycles when I was 15 16 years old yeah but I was riding at this point when we moved to Nevada pretty much Harley's exclusively I had gotten through all my dirt bike riding and all that stuff and was riding Harley so Becky and I used to go on these poker runs and so we would meet all these people from all throughout the Las Vegas Valley some of them were you know with uh Outlaw motorcycle clubs and stuff like that and then some of them were just Christian clubs all kinds of you know uh veterans clubs yeah we'd get together on it seemed like it was one Sunday every month we'd have what they called a poker run I don't know if everybody knows what that is but you'd get uh you'd ride from bar to bar and you'd get a a card when you arrived at the next bar until you got a poker hand and somebody would win I

forgot the exact details of how it works but that was the where I started seeing you know people take their jackets off and almost everybody I saw had a tattoo and I was like whoa that's I've never run around with tattooed people in I worked in uh civil engineering for 30 years so I didn't meet a lot of tattooed people so I was like oh that's kind of cool started looking at tattoos and started asking where where do you get your tattoos and everything led to this one shop um called Studio tattoo on Boulder Highway and that was like the place to get your tattoo at least from all the biker types that I was talking to so I don't know you know that was where my influence was coming from so um I went and got my first tattoo and I don't remember if you went with me when I got my first one I think it was the second one that you went with me yeah I went and got a tattoo of U an image that I always liked that my grandma had a picture of on her wallet was called all is Vanity super famous most people know what it is if they see it the skull with the lady looking in a mirror yeah her head is like the eyes of the skull and then all the perfume in the bottom or the teeth teeth yeah and so I went to this lady and I took her this image and asked her if she could could do it she did it came home we all looked at it and talked about it and we decided it needed some more stuff yeah and so the next time I went um we decided to put some Flames around it some skulls you went with me and you were

10 years old I remember very clearly that I was like I don't know I guess it's okay to bring your kid to a tattoo shop nobody said couldn't so you came along you watched the process we talked about it uh while we're talking to her and on the way out of that uh shop after I got my Flames added we stopped in the parking lot and um it we were I think both of us were you even you at 10 years old you're probably already thinking hey this would be kind of a cool thing to do yeah I remember asking her a lot of questions uhhuh and I looked at you and I said we should we should tattoo together and you were like yeah and it was like that was a long you know that was 80 it was 90 probably 9091 pretty early on in the 90s yeah yeah after we moved out here so that kind of then then I started I decided to add another tattoo some months later and I let you design it for me and it was a cool I got 54 Buick from Gilla which kind of faded out right now but look at the line work how sweet it still looks Flames all those used to be color anyway that was uh my second third session of getting tattooed and and then Austin went along I you went with me several times yeah I remember I don't remember what else you got from her I don't know I remember being there a couple times for those yeah this was that first one with the everything had had Flames back in those days if you didn't have Flames there was one time that I was with some Hell's Angels at a party and they had a guy in a corner that had a

tattoo machine and a setup and uh I would never forget walking in there Becky and I rode all the way over to Henderson off Boulder Highway somewhere a lot of bikers out there yeah and we'd been invited to this party with a friend of mine Clancy and we walked in and I had a really heavy leather jacket and I'm in a room full of real intimidating looking bikers and stuff and uh they had a hall tree where you hang your coat yeah and I hung my coat and it fell over in the middle of everything everybody's kind of like whoa I was like I'm sorry and then the guy tried to tattoo my head he wanted to Flame my head and I was like I thought about it for a minute and I never flamed my head I'm so glad I didn't I think I would have probably reg good that

I don't look I don't look I don't look as fast as I to used to so I don't need flames on my head a full head of hair then so that's yeah yeah I had a long ponytail and stuff uh yeah you had no facial hair I had maybe a mustache long ponytail kind of a Leonard Skinner look back in those days yeah yeah yeah before I uh before I got robbed by some gangsters and shaved my head and grew a beard so I could change my look so then from there we went on to basically starting to kind of like cruise around and check out other tattoo shops in town venture out of that one yeah and then um trying to remember like all over those years yeah I think we kind of put that on the back burner for a while obviously you were clearly too young to be into tattoo and

wasn't until you were in high school you were drawing some tattoo designs for kids that were getting tattoos Yeah well yeah so I remember I definitely remember you bringing home tattoo magazine tattoo industry magazine I I can't remember which ones like uh and then I started looking at those and just drawing all of that stuff out of there anyway and then we slowly yeah then like in high school I personally started getting kids asking me to draw their tattoos for them um and then I remember one day in like my sophomore year in class this kid came in and he was like Hey I want to get a tattoo I'll give you 50 bucks to draw me something and I literally took that I took that 50 bucks and sat down and Drew through that whole entire class and completely ignored the class and I gave it to him and then he came back the very next day with this Jester tattooed on the side of his leg that I drew and I specifically remember thinking like damn that is like I mean I remember seeing my tattoo or my drawing on you as a tattoo but being I don't the fact that you made money at it for the first time yeah it was like a different kind of experience and the fact that I I got paid 50 bucks and that's usually what I would work a full shift for like tips after school and I just did it during school and so what were you getting tips for where where well yeah just busting tables at M or something you know a little bar and then um but anyway I I remember specifically being like so pumped that I got

paid 50 bucks to draw that and then it turned into like oh my other friend told me that you drew this and you know then I drew a tribal arm band for Tony a good buddy of mine and he got that tattooed on him and then I just started going and I was like can I go to these shops with you guys and I would just go in After High School and like there weren't that many shops in Vegas at the time and they were pretty rough and we went to let's see docs was down on the Strip where the Pawn Stars is now yeah they leveled that shop and then there was one on Spring Mountain where Dave who apprenticed us eventually yeah I can't remember desert in desert no desert Charleston yeah but there were only there was probably less than 10 I would say seven tattoo

shops in the valley at the time yeah not much I don't definitely remember remember there was like one called tattoos are us and that's where like kids and my co-workers and Friends started co uh going down there to get tattooed and that PL place was hella sketchy yeah but may have gotten uh burned down or something by remember doc used to or somebody yeah make tattoo shops eliminate the competition I guess they called it but then where did we shortly go like like in high school yeah I started watching them get tattooed and then I it kind of took a break there for a little bit and then uh like 18 or 19 I started going with a couple of my buddies up to this shop that was near us called uh Pricks tattoos and I went in there and watched them get a couple of tattoos and and started like talking that was the first shop I went into where I felt like oh I can talk to these people and they're they're like nicer to me and that's where I met my mentor Dave but but Trey was first remember we yeah we both tried to Apprentice under Trey and he was surrounded by some interesting people and we just didn't feel comfortable yeah and we moved on to Dave yeah and then Dave like Dave asked you to offer him or something but he wouldn't he wouldn't like give me a tattoo apprenticeship until I got tattooed and then I was like oh okay okay well I want to do this so I want to like so then I went to the library and I got all did all this research on the uh God of uh I don't even know I'm forgetting

it right now the elephant uh oh the Ganesh the Ganesh yeah yeah which I can't even remember the details of it but that's how bad my memory is but anyway I just really was just attracted to I was drawing a lot of elephants Hindu yeah some awesome stuff and uh so I did uh some a bunch of beautiful drawings of the ganes and and and I brought them into him and he was like let's do this and I was like okay cool he goes like right now I was like oh okay um yeah all right and I just remember getting all clammy and like super nervous and scared and then I got up in his chair and he freaking shaved my leg and I just remember like I don't know why I specifically remember that like wow I've never shaved my legs before like that's so feels super weird uh and then he was nice and approachable though like some of the people we were meeting weren't that approachable and you know almost like a it was a thing to intimidate people when you were a tattooer back when we started that was like the way tattooers felt like they I don't know if it empowered them somehow but I heard that from many tattooers they enjoyed intimidating people yeah it just wasn't seemed weird to us we like I don't know why would you want to intimidate somebody I was like a nerd from the suburbs I always said and I just like I just wanted to draw and too so that's all I wanted to do so what we did from there is like we kind of we made that connection with Dave and it was awesome and uh he offered to teach me how to tattoo

and his goal was to like open up his own shop so then from there it just turned into this like fun crazy adventure where you started coming up away asking hey when you're done teaching Austin can you teach me and he was like absolutely yeah because at the time if you remember there were so many people waiting in line to get tattooed there was a serious shortage of tattooers yeah I think that's why we had a real easy not easy entry but um easier than you would today for and a few of those shops like Tre uh they started really like opening up their doors to a more in a more friendly manner kind of you know and like throwing parties and doing events and promoting themselves so it was but it was also flash too when we started it was all flash yeah when we started tattooing Dave and Aaron delova were probably only two guys in the valley that actually designed a tattoo and Drew it on somebody I don't know maybe a few at least one to but we we worked in a Flash shop our first Pricks was all flash remember yeah all the walls were cover in Flash and um that's what we did you'd crank out how many tattoos did we do a day I don't know I used to do like a dozen a day Cory Miller Flash and all the um uh what's Cherry Creek the fair the girl that did the fair yeah K Bar um yeah a bunch of like real fun Old School artists and they would come through that shop actually got to meet a lot perfect Flash and yeah that was one of my favorite flash artists we didn't we didn't at the time know

about Phil luck but um yeah there were so many really good flash artists around back then nobody realizes that now the Internet is just flash it's just come off the wall and now it's on your computer you know no but still you're still copying images that other people have done so nothing's original you know yeah so then from there we started getting let's see I I went with Dave he he decided he was going to open up his own shop so we left there and I went over with him and learned how to tattoo and what was the name of that shop uh mach five originally though oh accents and art accents and art we called it accidents and art because so many weird things happened in there yeah it had like a weird rumor back in the day of this they had an artist that the guy with Bob Bob was really nice guy who owned it but he I guess his son was a little wild at the time and nodded off during a tattoo and just literally drew a line down this person's back while he was doing this tattoo and I always heard that story and years years later I randomly ran across this guy he's like oh I I got tattooed on that weird shop down on Charleston or whatever it's like it's a different now you know and uh I was like oh really what you know he's like yeah my artist like fell asleep on me and you met the guy yeah and I was at a party or something never know that and I he turned around and pulled up his shirt and sure enough he had this shitty half-done tattoo and this line that just turned into dots like

jamming down his back that was just an end of his back piece and he just kept it yeah he never got it cover yeah so anyway that place got the you know hence the name accidents in art which was pretty funny the owner of Bob was cool he was the one he he took me in and when he fired son I think that's when Dave got his spot in there I think so because that's he needed to hire other artists and stuff so uh yeah so Dave got in there and then brought us and it was a small like maybe 12200 squ foot little rectangle space that had six artists in it that rotated in and out of like three booths but there would be like four or five on duty and they would all be smoking in there not on duty but you know just hanging out Wai playing with handguns smoking cigarettes in there so like it was so NY in there it was so nasty smokiest place ever um yeah so that's where I did my Apprentice ship I just remember all these it was like Tattooing in a bar I remember w i remember this Tater that would never change wash his hands and he would just put new gloves on and we wore powdered gloves back then so he would pull them off and then just uh slowly pick off all the caked on Powder off of his hands all day long and put it on the floor I'm not going to mention his name like somebody we still know yeah I was like that's most disgusting things I've ever seen but oh I know who you're talking it was some awesome I know who it was never mind long haired long hair Matt he was cool as hell man he he

they call him low rider Matt he was he did all black and gray stuff and had long hair L went all the way down past his ass and he was he was super sweet but uh yeah so we we hung out there right for a while and and then we ended up there's like I don't know why I'm forgetting like went from accidents in our to to um Mach 5 yeah okay so he bought bought it he ended up buying Dave ended up buying that shop and then transforming it into Mach 5 then that's when we were we were full-time tattooing by then yeah that wasn't very long it was early 990s still right I'm sorry but I still had a job late 90s wasn't it yeah because I was like it was like 99 98 was when we started apprenticing yeah so we were full on tattoo in part sometime in 99 yeah at

MCH five yeah and then from there I went up I left there because I really wanted the tattoo full-time and I still had a full-time job so I went from there up to Pricks because Pricks they had some guys leave or something and I went back to the shop where we started hanging out at at the very beginning to do our I remember tattooed at tricks and I well I remember when we were apprenticing we had to draw all the that was how we kind of learned to draw some of the we would customize some of those flash pieces or um Jesse girl and you and I were always back there drawing little pieces for people and I guess that's kind yeah so that that's like where I went full-time there and um I was really excited because I was tattooing all the damn time that shop was super busy the guy Trey was a great promoter uh wild ass Human but he could promote the hell out of the tattoo shop people would wait six hours to get tattooed yeah no appointments you just walked in and waited everybody would just smoke out front and hang out and drink or all the time there's always different people answering the phone and hanging out in the shop like there was lots of crazy transactions we'll call it going down and there then a lot of cops too and a lot of weird interesting yeah yeah yeah so I don't know so then like when you one one unique thing about you is like you obviously didn't start at a young age you started tattooing like I was about 45 yeah you and you had already had a full career as a as a land

surveyor so you worked in Houston and uh out there in the Sun for a long time so a lot of the I remember a lot of the decisions that came into play for you uh getting out of that career was to was because of the skin cancer sun exposure so you had some pretty gnarly surgeries go down and uh you ended up kind of like just kind of spontaneously deciding yeah my oncologist told me if you don't stop working in the sun it's going to kill you and I was like I have another option yeah and then that's what when I had already started I remember uh I would go to work surveying at 5:00 in the morning I'd get off at 1 I would drive to Pricks and I'd work from about 1:30 1:45 until 11: or midnight and then do it over and over yeah we did it every day almost you know Trey ran like a really tight ship he was definitely like a guy who pushed me I look at it now and in such a good way to like never turn down a walk in you always were you like if your shop closed at 10:00 at night and 9:45 a tribal arm band walked in you better sit down and do that tribal arm band back in the day a tribal arm band would take me three hours you know I was like very slow and meticulous and uh we did a lot of late nights long long days yeah we did a lot of that stuff there which is really great and super fun um so then from there you kind of you know you decided to go full time so you you quit there and then you came in to there full I went fulltime at uh I I don't remember why we deci oh Dave opened up so then

he asked if I wanted to come down there because I he knew I was not doing yeah I wasn't doing bad there but I just didn't I felt the smoke and that the parties and stuff I kind of wanted to get focused on the tattoo thing and not so much the party do we I love how we can't remember sh really then we ended up back at like Maverick or I mean Maverick at um at Muk five so there was funny cuz we kind of had these these two shops this is kind of funny two shops that we had our our relationships with tattooing or intro relationships were just between these two shops and we went back and forth and the ownership changed yeah on one tattoo shop the ownership changed like three times of me working there so three completely different people were there

running it accid art Mach 5 Bad Apple yeah whatever but it's still bad apple now yeah so um so that way that was kind of wild because then we bounc back and forth there and then it just like there was like always like some owner kind of turmoil between both of them so we ended up just decided like all right we just just got to go do our own thing um and you know it was not like a you weren't supposed to do that back in the day no we we were we were only like 3 years in at that time I think two and a half years before we opened up our own shot which is was a culturally a big no no and still kind of is a big no no or whatever but like nowadays I guess it's not but everybody's do that like yeah you open up a shop in a second you learn how to tattoo um but and our adventure you know if you could make it work it's not a bad gig yeah and like our the whole reason why we did that is just CU we didn't have like a healthy space like a place where we were like that we felt it was like as healthy as it could have there were times when it didn't even seem safe no for sure we saw lots of violence and craziness yeah over those first few years first three years yeah so then we kind of like went into kind of survival mode and we're like all right well there's no other place that I would and be interested in working at because there was no options yeah so we decided to open up our shop and we opened up a little tiny space so that back then like the zoning wasn't wasn't like yeah before we

opened up remember the what we were talking about earlier about the naming it I thought that was an interesting story yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean we sat down in your living room and came up I think everybody wrote like 50 plus names down and I feel like I kind of walked in and we were all just sitting there discussing just frustrated we just had so many stupid names and at that time everybody was naming their shops like really Rand yeah yeah Chrome donkey or whatever and like silly all the names were so weird yeah they were real off thee wall so I just was like all right I don't I don't seal any that like we need to do something that stands stands out we being in Vegas we there was like a number that always popped into our heads that was like culturally is just a big number was 21 you know you gota you gota pretty much be 21 to live live the life of of that Vegas provides and gambling Blackjack and everything so 21st century it was the beginning of the 21st century yeah 21's everywhere yeah so I was like why don't we just call it Studio 21 and then we just it clicked immed you like push your away from the table I remember we were all frustrated you just went let's just call Studio 21 and you were just like almost pissed and we're like yeah that sounds great yeah and it was just like a real simple I don't know I didn't like at the time we made fun of all these other shop names that had a little catchy weird characters and stuff it was like too easy to make fun

of them I was like I mean I don't you can't really make fun of Studio 21 it's just blah like not blah but it just is like at the time my favorite shop name was Avalon down at s Diego I just love the name of that shop and I love the vibe of that we we did we both did we got T down there we like great shop that was like I mean kind of jumping all around but like back to that was like a big part of our youth and intro into tattooing was our trips to San Diego because like you ended up getting your sleeve Ouran tour was close with Aaron delova they both had tattooed out of Vegas or did their apprenticeships here in Vegas I think so then uh Aaron moved out to San Diego and we were introduced by him from Dave and I was just like so incredibly impressed with both of their tattooing super nice guys super talented individuals yeah so then we started like we get tattooed by Dave and then we were like Dave did most of your left lead right and then we started making trips to go to San Diego and you started getting your sleeve your other sleeve done out there yeah so that was back when he was at Avalon on in Pacific Beach there on Garnett and then later on he went working for Patty Kelly was that shop and there was so many legends that in that shop she was the of moose Kelly who was like a super famous artist back at the you did album covers oh that's cool know that rock and roll artist she was big time she was a badass though and then um but anyway so back to so we kind of like back

to Vegas we uh where were we at open in the shop we were talking about yeah talking about stud one yeah and then so we picked out a small little location we looked all over and we were having a lot of trouble with u any property managers tattoo sh um so we kind of settled on a place that was down like in between two casinos and uh it was on a main D called light industrial remember you had to you had to be in light industrial so you're around strip warehouses and strip clubs oh yeah and at that time none of those were desirable places to tattoo after dark yeah massage parlers and stuff and yeah it was like a a heavy cab cab thr or whatever which all ended up working out great for us because we got a ton of exposure we were right off the strip and all the cabs use that road to cut through Off the Strip so then it would Expos us to like a lot of tourists and then they would always bring people to us we were super busy we opened up in 2003 just the two of us but we built out uh four four booths or the two up front we had the two three in the back and two up front one was the mom's office yeah so that was like a whole another thing my mom was actually she still had her full-time job and uh she was a graphic designer and illustrator she came so once I came up with name then my mom we we sent it over to her to get all the logo done and she's the one that really like led us on and educated using branding and uh clean legible logo and really like elevated us as far as other tattoo

shops at the time on a professionalism and the way that we U you know ex not exposed ourselves but you know just like just our ourselves yeah she was really good at the obviously she's still still is really good but uh yeah she was certainly an integral part in both of our shop so she brought the logo and then and the name and was there and then we just basically needed to build out our shop and we had I think you had sold a couple of Harley at the time uh I decided that it wasn't worth the risk if I crashed and broke a hand or something yeah it was not a good time sold those and used some of that money and Becky and I cashed in our 401ks everything that we had saved up until that point in our lives which was we had worked a lot of years before that yeah we were 40 we were in our mid-40s and we just said let's just throw this at the wall as see if it sticks yeah it was a big ass Hail Mary it was scary as hell like I luckily was like a pretty you know I uh you know I was like well networked and I had a lot of young friends and stuff too that all wanted to get tattoo so I jumped right in there um well Vegas at the time and I guess it still kind of is it's like small town like everybody knows everybody once you get a circle of friends going that know you and trust you they send people to you yeah when when I was tatto when I just like I just started tattooing there was only like one other young person that was learning how to tattoo that I knew of in the whole entire city yeah

there was my circle became huge you know like everybody's a friend of a friend of a friend came in and we were we were so busy and I started tattoo and like six seven day well we did seven days a week for like the first like nine months I think that was our goal was to do the first year and we worked 12 hours a day seven days a week and we made it seven to nine months we didn't make a year but hell that was so take it like one day off each you know to where there' be like one person would be in the shop basically worked our tails off we were just had Tuesdays off or something like that it was cool but um and then we brought in an I brought an inance pretty quick which which was again probably shouldn't have that we had to we needed help yeah we needed help and you couldn't hire anybody so you had to teach somebody yeah and all the guys that were coming in were pretty rough and ra really wild yeah um so the stories that go on with that go for days about like just our initial like we were our shop was right and when you walked out of our shop there was a freaking tunnel at this giant water drainage tunnel that was full of homeless people and the homeless people criminals hiding from other law in other cities and it was insane they would all just basically crawl out of this cave and walk into your shop and just ask you for or try to sell you stolen goods I had I'm just standing there like treating everybody like a great customer when they walk in there I remember two women

walked in and they were like yeah we want to get tattoo I was like oh cool right on uh you know here's what we want to get like cool I can do that I can draw this up for you and I was like that it'll be about like $250 and they were like $250 like what you like how about you get some of this for free and they both lifted their their dresses up over their head butan I was like what in the what is going on so they closed their they I was like no AAL day that's not how we operate around here so you know have a good day like a normal day at Studio 21 thanks for the offer um the the crackheads and like the the rattlesnake Tamer guy don't were him he got bipped he was just this weird homeless guy I don't know if he's homeless or what but he looked like it he was a Desert Rat yeah he got bit by a rattlesnake and told came come in to tell me the craziest stories about most disturbing he ever did with his thumb you always had your your video camera ready and fil all that footage because I I'm not sure we should even tell some of those stories there's a lot of stories out of the early Studio 21 yeah we you know should repeat yeah we did bring like Aaron Jackman did a super good job he was our first Apprentice yeah he was a manager at a skate shop and just did like these real small Doodles but he did them like really clean and very accurate so good job ride in and he was a hard worker a real smart dude reliable yeah so he came in and he stayed with us for years uh before he left

and then oh over those years and we developed new new relationship of new people and we ended up like that was 2003 to like 2005 we started getting to the point where we were outgrowing that little shop and we started working with uh somebody that kind of like motivated us to make some bigger decisions and we decided we wanted to build out a big shop that had six stations and everybody had their own booth and we had this very very detailed idea of how we wanted to be done and we wanted to have the nicest shop in Las Vegas we went from, 1300 square feet to 2600 square feet yeah just double the size of our shop hired an architect hired an architect borrowed a ton of money borrowed a ton of money it's been built out and what Las Vegas hadn't seen any shop I'll never forget the the day our opening day we've been anticipating for I a long time six months and the health department notorious for being uh bullies I guess you could say they sent five inspectors to inspect our shop on opening day and they found like a paper towel rack wasn't in one of the booths and wouldn't allow us to open and we had people waiting outside Becky's running around looking for a paper towel rack said let's just get the thing screwed on and they would they just didn't want us just open up easy so they they made it interesting for us it was it was a great exciting day but paper towel rack really come they were also flattering Us by like they had never seen plans like that done for a tattoo shop that came

through so then they wanted to also like share with everybody and they kind of turned us into of this like oh okay well these guys do it like this now I don't know if they raise their expect or what but we had to like we had to do more it was almost like oh okay well then you're going to have to do this like the salons do or something I don't know whatever we had to they they got Becky to write uh the safety manual for tattooing which the health department made everybody have in their shot going forward we we could yeah I don't even think they do that anymore we had to hire somebody to produce that we also what else did we have to do they they had us jumping through hoops just to get open but we were the largest um tattoo shop in the state of Nevada for several years after that yeah around that time was a really interesting time too because like right when we opened up in 2003 at our old location 2003 2004 har and Huntington opened up their tattoo shop inside of the palms and launched a TV show like at the same time I think Miami at was but anyway it was like I don't know if it was the first or second that's how we were able to expand once they open the zoning changed in yeah uh Clark County and we were allowed to be in C2 zoning no longer in um you know light industrial C2 zoning is The Strip Center um that was the beginning of a big change which we kind of saw it coming we knew it was going to happen yeah I said to Austin one time when he was pretty young I said there's

going to be one of these shops on every corner it'll be like nail salons and here we are yeah you know 25 years later yeah we got they're everywhere yeah so that basically but like they got a lot of overflow from there too if you remember like there would be like all these like Canadians at that time were tourist heavy so they would put in there they're like oh we want we don't want to wait like four hours in like the prices and the prices so then they randomly would we were just happen to be right there like all can can I tell a story about the girl we put in there is that okay one girl a girl that worked wanted to work counter for us we didn't we didn't give her a job a little blond ha girl so she got a job at AR Huntington and we gave her a a box of 500 cards and she ended them out oh to like all the Overflow i d remember that if somebody didn't like the price of the tattoo she would just go here's check these people out and it was just all day she sent us business which I'm sure they had plenty of business Carrie I remember him saying after they opened up he's a t-shirt business you know he's more of a brand I don't think he was that into trying to compete with the tattooers in Las Vegas he just wanted to build a brand yeah which they did and they're very successful at it yeah so then like see so it's was like 2000 back to like 2003 2005 we yeah or 2003 we no I'm sorry 2006 we opened up our new shop yeah and then that we were still kind of like having some interesting

run-ins with like different people in the area like some biker groups would come by and they didn't like our that we were opening up a nice big shops tried to intimidate us like all back their bikes up in front of our shop and then walk through the shop and like just go beyond the front counter and into the booth and I was just you know like I don't know kill with kindness attitude so I just sit there and like oh hey guys yeah thanks for coming to check out our shop you know like cool you know all right and then you never would never say to me for some reason because like a skinny ass kid and then they would just turn around and walk out then I would like hyperventilate and just decide to go back to my tattoo do everything we could to keep the doors open no that was the last time we ever it was 06 we didn't have any problems with anybody after that no at that point in time it was like now we were tattooing like soccer moms and um lots of firefighters and tons of uh industry was like huge at the time so like you know people were making a ton of money in Vegas and the casino industry coming in you know dealers and freaking nightclub people how wide open it was going to be but you could kind of feel it you know at about the time that we opened our first shop you knew it was going to get way bigger than it was yeah you could just tell because people that did like you said like nurses were getting tattooed it wasn't just gangsters and really like in that short amount of time we

just saw like I guess just TV helped to like kind of bring to everybody's uh I don't even know when that Miami or something was first one that drove a lot of business to that was all pre social media too so everything we were doing everything pre- Yelp preg gooogle reviews like we had no online pres I mean we did we we built a website remember like we put a ton of money into like hiring some guy to come over and build us a website we put like 15 Grandin or on a website which you know not anybody was doing that at the time too so that helped us out a lot with um I don't think a tattoo business could afford to throw that 15 grand for a website anymore yeah maybe I don't know but just like our security system whever we we had a security system

there cost us 10 grand for a security now it's you buy cameras for at Costco and put them up yeah so yeah lots changed there which is really funny but uh I know this the the we're like then we also didn't we only dealt with like the Great Recession all of a sudden we were just crashing it and then 2008 we got through some disasters remember we when we first started it was Y2K and we were only like two years into tattooing and this everybody's like oh the world's going to end everything's going to shut down power is going to go down we won't be tattoo made it through that and then we went through 911 yeah and 911 drove a lot we it did exactly the opposite you would think well we did a lot of patriot iotic tattoos after 911 tons of yeah and that just increased our business instead of what you know costing us business yeah but the Great Recession was another story that kicked our Bots we were we were doing really really good and we decided um I don't know I don't remember really what was going on I think we tried to invest in some other stuff and then just everything took a so then he had to like clean house and just really get down to the nitty-gritty and like show up and work every I mean at that time we were always still working every day but that was a pretty tough time we through a tough time a lot of ters sitting around with nothing to do and everybody gets tends to get like pretty antsy and you feel guilty if you can't can't keep somebody busy you know it's still that

way I mean it's like yeah if you're not keeping these guys busy it makes you feel you know not it's not a good feeling you want you want these people to come work with you and make money and yeah that's one of them that's probably the hardest part of the tattoo business or maybe that's anys any business I mean you know you feel this great sense of responsibility or you should when you you know open a business and you bring people on you tell somebody you're gonna they can make a living working with you and then you can't help them yeah it's an awful feeling but we've gone through many yeah well the Great Recession and then we went through covid which was the first time in our lives we'd ever had anybody tell us we couldn't come to work yeah

the government just shut us down like everybody you know but that was a weird weird time and a very panicking time pain right around when I started Maverick Supply Co and we had just invested in all of this product and it just got here and then I launched my website in January and I got a couple sales in January and then February came around like couple more sales and then March and it was Zero the whole entire industry shut down which was terrifying terrifying you know so yeah then it was like all right cool well I guess I'll just hang out in my house and DM people and this time Instagram was you know kind of still strong and stronger than ever I guess when everybody was in the country was sitting around doing nothing so I remember I putting up to like 18 hours a day dming people yeah just on trying to get them to like educated about havick and yeah and so then Co but who knew that people were going to save up all so much tattoo money while the lockdowns were going on because we came out Gang Busters after they opened us back up most insane two last two years ever yeah so and then now it's like the driest slowest winter anyone has ever seen so so we're you know full circle so yeah it's just like a cycle here we are it is life is like a roller coaster yeah and I think it's probably always been that way for tattooers from as far back as you can go yeah we've met some of the old ass tattooers from you know historical taters like phph Eddie bow Stan Philadelphia Eddie those

guys have been through so much they're they're gone now but they were super influential and uh to the whole tattooing industry yeah in this country in the world Philadelphia EDD has started the tattoo conventions and we actually got to go do conventions with him which was really fun and educational I thought yeah I had yeah really good we get to have lunch with Philadelphia Eddie and uttle we got we I think we had lunch with was there we're all sitting around the table we're in Vancouver Washington Vancouver Washington having a brunch and Lyall Tuttle he always had a cane at that time he was getting pretty old he was like 85 he sat out at the table and he was talking to us all he goes you guys want to do some lines and we all looked up and went no that dude was still and Chase like super hot young girls yeah same with Philadelphia Edie every time my girl that I was with at the time would like hum her out he just wouldn't even pay attention to me he would just stare at her and talk to her same with your sister they they always yeah we remember the time that uh we we had some ads and some tattoo magazines and we had Courtney in know like a kind of a outfit yeah my sister wasn't too racy but it was racier than we didn't realize how racy it was until we realized that uh tattoo magazines were going to prisons yeah and uh we had prison ERS contacting us telling Courtney that when they got out they were going to come to the shop and meet her so we had to pull all our ads because

we're like they were leaving messages on our machine that of how hot she was and I'm like what the is going on so weird we've had some super you just learn as you go you okay didn't that didn't really come into my mind I thought tattoo magazines okay nothing wrong with prisoners look at tattoo magazines but they'll put your daughter in there yeah kind a racy outfit what what some of your favorite like stories of working in that first shop back in like 200 jez I don't know you know just like I mean I I don't know about favorite stories but I I think I laid on the floor with a 911 operator probably a half a dozen times for I remember one time I got off the plane I flew to Denver for some reason and I got off the plane and Y Becky called and there was a truck had driven his truck up to the front door and had you hostage inside the shop I don't know what that was about I don't remember either I do remember that though yeah and remember a lot of very uncomfortable moments with people in the store and then them like being drunk at like after hours demanding that you tude them or what whatever and their friends were all there and then it turning into this real hot situation where trying to like I don't know I've always been kind of good talking people out of being super violent and angry and somehow and the total opposite I just get right in their face and trying to talk people down and I'm like come on yeah yeah we had some fun times there at that shop though like that's when we

were throwing some really crazy parties and that was when there was like no rules man we would throw like a Halloween party and I decided I wanted to come up with you know I was I was pretty Corky with some promotional ideas so we I decided all right it's Halloween and I went around and I bought like 75 pumpkins and I took this my uh roommate up to time him with a drummer and he had a drum stage it was just a basically it was like 2et of plywood and I put a blowup pool on there and I gutted 75 pumpkins and threw all the guts in the pool and it surrounded the pool with uh all the pumpkins and then we had a pumpkin gut wrestling contest where with a bunch of strippers yeah these you know very nice young ladies that were my clients and we had guys we had ramps guys like on mini bikes jumping or doing stunts and yeah there was a bar next door called The Royal and they open their front and back doors and let us race through with the minibikes through the bar I don't know if they let us do that or we were just doing that I think they liked it it was oh they never had anybody in there and then all of a sudden there was like 500 people in there I'm not sure if they wanted anybody in there yeah there was something going on over there we can't talk about yeah but then we had some we did some fun promotional shows though we had this trucker hat art show where we had an 18-wheeler uh pull up out front and I don't know it was a client of ours like yes and then we distributed like 150 um

trucker hats to artists all over the country and they sent them back to us and we had them all painted and then all displayed in there we did a um a silent auction so they were all uh auctioned off at 100% of the proceeds charity we did a lot of Charity stuff too which is awesome that was remember everybody being really drunk at the end of the night there we had a space behind that shop that was a big parking lot and it was off you couldn't see it from the Main Street so we could do anything we wanted back there so I had a friend that was an electrician that um lighted the uh convention yeah yeah he would bring out all those we'd bring towers of lights and generators and just make that place so cool back there it was a lot of fun yeah we had numerous events in the early days we did piercing so we had this guy Kane FZ and he was a he was a street bike stunt dude like back when that didn't even it wasn't even like a thing yet and uh he ended up coming and being a piercer at a shop for like two or three years two about two years or whatever until I we ended up having to let him go cuz he was he was obviously like needed to pursue what he wanted to do with the street bike stuff but anyway he had some pretty crazy stories where him and all his friends we would all come up and then we would block off the street which is like a five Lane Road and block it off with cars and then have like 10 street bikes doing stunts like burnouts and wheelies up and down the street till the cops

would like raid it and then they would all just take off and run from the cops and there would be like smoke and burnout everywhere we would just go back in and act like we're just like yeah that was just our day you know I don't know who those kids are we tattooed a lot cops too so they kind of let us get away with some stuff it was pretty fun yeah we had the trucker hat art shows the the Halloween things we we just did a lot we had a grand opening too there the first party where Ben remember uh Ben dos Frank yeah who's now do Frank yeah um he was our MC and we had uh Kelly and Andrew who had oh yeah there were sword swallowers they were Sideshow people so they would be hanging out they were so good at entertaining and I remember I had to get up on stage and drink a cocktail through uh Andrew's head like he threaded a hose through his nose brought it out of his mouth yeah of course cleaned it put it in a drink and I stood there and drank a drink on the stage threw his head grossed everybody out I thought it was well even grosser is he would drink a bag of his own urine through his own head so he would put the straw through his no came out maybe he did that on the stage no I don't know about on the stage he used to do that weird urine drinking like at the shop he would bring it by you got a video of his wife drinking his yeah he had where they would shreded ears and he stuck his penis through the hole in her ear pissed in a cup and she drank it and he yeah I am all that on

video so if we can get a hold of that that would be real sweet that's some crazy times yeah nothing like that happens in Studio 21 anymore assure you yeah that I know yeah he used to hang himself from his chest big hooks in his hang himself from the stairs right in front of the shop and like I used to help Kane do the piercings for that that was pretty gross I'm glad do that he talked to to get your nipples pierced too yeah he did yeah I never would do that hurt yeah well he was having a bad day he was grumpy because he wasn't getting any tips and I'm like well I I guess I numerous times I I actually did took one for the team I guess you I said okay just pierce my nipples I don't have anything else to Pier yeah that hurt yeah I remember Mom

uh so my mom at that back this was back in the 2003 to 2006 era my mom uh still had a full-time job she was a graphic artist and uh she had this young guy that worked for her for a little bit and he was obsessed with getting his penis pierced and he kept coming to our shop and like I don't know why that's like around the time I specifically remember like I'm not even into piercing like why do we even have this here and this is weird now mom's co-workers are like coming in and getting their wieners pierced and I'm like does do I want the Spencer family to be like known for getting your wiener pierced no fence pies but I'm like I just it just wasn't my gig yeah so and uh we also had some weird ass we had her accountant from her work ended up doing some accounting work for us and he came in and we had to fire him because we caught him photocopying all of the penis piercings out of the penis Port uh portfolio or the port and then we a bunch of the penis portfolio porn on the on Becky's computer he was doing our books and downloading porn at our shop on the computer we're like you gotta go dude yeah we we can get somebody else to count the money yeah I'm not yeah looking back I'm like why why was our account even in the store yeah I guess he was doing it on the side or something and do our for us it was weird we learned a lot over the years from those kind of experiences our new shop was much more tame than our first location yeah I think the whole industry is more tame than it

was yeah thousand per yeah tell was more tame I mean we didn't we don't have nearly as many people that would do the things that they would do in the old shop now yeah I mean the exhibitionists and the you know we that symbolism yeah remember poor all Phil luck having to do a consultation I sent him out there to talk to these people I knew they were gonna be characters and I knew something freaking weird was going on and they had brought a portfolio in of pictures of like his wife's genitalia and close-ups and they had drawn all these pictures all around like little detailed floral designs all around her genitalia and they just came in and they just wanted to show this to a tat to get an idea of how much it cost would and then make Phil extremely uncomfortable and then they basically I don't even think they had any interest in getting the tattooed she did it and in the booth that is now adults not yeah a Pidge pides yeah yeah sorry Pidge just went blank for a second there Phil luck had to tattoo that girl and he said I'm only going to get so close to your butthole and then that's it I'm not going to go any closer but he did that tattoo and she laid there spreading will Buck Naked for about 4 hours while people are walking by and he goes I'm going to go have a smoke you can get up you can cover yourself up and she would never get up cover herself up we were like weird characters people out there yeah yeah yeah that was like what we were talking about earlier too is just the

getting to know people in the most intimate long form kind of content way tattooing provides you like just can sit down other than barring those kind of stories uh the fun part of tattooing I think what I like most about it was meeting people and talking to people from all over the world we had people from everywhere and just the conversations and the things you learn from people about how they live where they are I I really enjoyed that I've never been a super big traveler but I I traveled through them you know to learning about them I thought it was pretty awesome to still I mean we still being in Vegas our our audiences worldwide so get some very interesting folks in there yeah tattooed billionaires I've tattooed you know fourstar generals and all kinds of people yeah that you would tattooed an astronauts sister one day um Astro Kate was her name her sister came through on the way to Florida to pick her sister up when the U uh space shuttle or landed they're going to get her out there and she told me she would be sick for about two weeks so she was getting some sort of tattoo to commemorate that wow that's pretty crazy CRA to talk to somebody who's going to get her her sister with on the space station and she literally was showing me videos of her talking to her sister I think she actually called her while I was tattooing her and I'm talking to an astronaut while I'm tattooing her sister on at m space station weird it's the you get these kind of opportunities that

other people just don't get industry yeah well I mean in tat Las Vegas too I mean I remember just having the weirdest like I'm you know a client that's like I'm a dolphin trainer you're like Is that real I didn't know that that's a thing or a l you know I work with the lions at the zoo at the you know the tiger SE show and stuff so had a lot of professional athletes and actresses and actors and yeah musicians which kind of brings me up to into like also like we've done some interesting things like we never had a um TV show take off but we have been under contract with multiple uh production companies and filmed multiple Pilots over the years like we go back to like TV taking off we were getting hit up weekly by people like production companies and stuff they were like whoa a father son and then my sister ran the front counter for seven years so then and then my mom later on she quit her full-time job and and came on with us like around 2006 or something like that the m a little bit Yeah but uh so yeah we did some really interesting like we went out to LA and got to like sit down with Kat Von D's agent at these big ass tables this big beautiful& History Channel all those we did like seven we pitched to like seven different networks all and uh I think at that time we were kind of that was like towards the tail end on that specific pitch but we were just kind of tired and didn't really think that it was they they want to to do drama we're really not drama people yeah it's

hard enough like obviously working with your family and you know running a small business so the last thing we needed was like people like throwing gas on yeah yeah so we did do a I think the biggest television thing we did was The Biggest Loser we did an episode of The Biggest Loser yeah yeah yeah I never forget the day that occurred I was tattooing somebody and the I saw a man and a young lady behind him with a clipboard walking through the shop and I I saw them meling around and I was like what's going on there you know and finally the guy came to the door and tap tap tap excuse me it was uh I I have a television show called The Biggest Loser and uh I was wondering if you guys might be interested in letting us use your shop and film here

yeah and I looked up at himone I said I'm not sure I want to have anything to do with the something called The Biggest Loser you know it doesn't sound I didn't know anything about it and he goes I have 13 million viewers on Prime Time CBS or whatever it was I was like hang on a second took my gloves off and the next thing know we're on the biggest lizard was pretty cool yeah which we had for years like people coming in we saw you the Biggest Loser oh people would bring me they I stuck this card on my fridge eight years ago that thing created business for a long time Biggest Loser and then we had a bunch of other shows uh Becky and I were going through some old pictures and I was like oh we did we were on some sort of a West Country West L show I remember walking into Best Buy one day and you were tattooing on all the TVs because you did we did that poker there was like a poker show and it was part of a bet where they lost a v yeah and then you had to do a tattoo on somebody or something like yeah there was some super famous poker players like those guys were called the Young Guns of Poker and we had them all in there yeah were fun yeah we did a lot of that was a good show so we're still open 200 um what's what's this month or this year 20 24 we're going to open 21 years this year this is our 21st or yeah this is our 21st year yeah so are you still tattooing much uh not very much but U I'm still willing to but you know what happens when uh somebody comes to me and wants to

get tattooed if someone else can do it I give it to them because we want them to be busy so as long as I can filter My Tattoos to them that's good is there anything out there that you'd be more apt to say yes to I like to do chest pieces if somebody comes to me for I I've always thought those are some of my best pieces my chest pie yeah just big like orc you know I like I like the symmetry of it I like you know traditional chess pieces let's yeah keep it traditional style or neoc um but fism too I don't really care to do anything bigger than that hurts my hands too much I think I'm old yeah so well cool I think that's about it I think we'll wrap it up but um I think what is to date yeah that's about it we're up to date and if you have any tell all the stories we got a lot of more stories we'll we're gonna do some more stuff we'll do so some back stuff but yeah so anyway thanks for having me yeah yeah yeah thanks Dad thanks for coming it was fun but anyway uh yeah stay tuned and we're going to have some more fun guests coming up and we are super excited to share this with you so have a good one thank you so much bye

Authenticity I think the the upside to doing that is figure out who you are and I feel like from playing music and expressing myself and then having to do that it was like well more often than not you're in a band with people and they don't want to do that stuff like I want to do that stuff I want to look cool and make cool things that look cool so for me it was like that attraction was always there I'm Mason the tattooer how do I brand that without my name all over it that was like my whole goal what's happening this is Austin from MAV supplyco I am super excited today to be sitting down with Mason chimato that's how you pronounce it right that's what I thought okay so anyway we're going to go over some things so today just get a little history of feedback of where Mason came from and how he ended up to where we're at today so anyway um thanks so much for taking the time to come here yeah dude I'm still thanks yeah yeah yeah it's like shuttle service the best Vegas taxi I've ever had yeah it's not too bad I hope my review is good yeah I mean the Uber I didn't bring you a coffee I should have brought you a coffee or had some water or something in there some mints we got some Min for you day okay Red Bull guy yeah so like um let's get into it I just kind of wanted to like get a little we you know we're so used to I guess kind of the only stuff that we get to see out of people these days is like what we see on our Instagrams so I just kind of want and for me it's usually just

a picture you get a video usually yeah I want to dive into that a little later too cuz I think you're fantastic at the way you like brand yourself and the importance of that and yeah I think fun to hear that's awesome no I think you do good man all your merch and everything so cool but uh let's start out with like um just a little bit of like history of like where you started tattooing and how you ended up in Florida maybe other places and stuff so yeah I'm from from Florida originally yeah yeah I was born in Hollywood which is Fort laal basically oh okay yeah everybody get confused by that Fort La and then we moved to Tampa when I was pretty young so I've been in Tampa for a long time and then uh 2015 I moved to Houston in 2018 2019 I moved back to Tampa yeah and then I moved to Charlotte North Carolina yeah all right end of 19 right right before Co like literally like a month before Co and then we just recently less than a year ago moved back to Tampa yeah and now and went straight to opening up your private studio and yes yeah yeah yeah from yeah so we went I went from well Bill's shop changed so originally it was Cherry Bomb which is in Newport Richie okay he decided to move to Tampa and then it became um momentum so we went from that to momentum and then around the time that momentum was opening is when I went to to Red dagger so I flew red dagger yeah how was like so you did you mentioned that like red dagger was your first like kind of solo job away from your

Apprentice right like yeah yeah I had worked for bill for 5 years at that point yeah um and then yeah I went there and that that's when it like was like oh man this is for real like oh it was like I got a car payment I got my own place like I don't know anyone here like I'm the worst tattoo that here was like like I had a desk a bed and uh an iMac that's all I had yeah like so it was literally like I had a desk with my computer on it with like art supplies and the only paintings I had I put on that wall and then I had a bed in the other room that was no distractions it was bad gr I think it was just scared you were solo Mission out there like just by yourself I didn't have any family nothing like I knew um Sean and Abel and and eron well but like from them guest spotting at Billy shop that was it you know so it's like couple weekends here and there I hung out with them and I was like damn this is it's just me here this is crazy I love like you know just I mean that just sounds like a fun adventure putting yourself out there vulnerable as hell you're surrounding yourself by all tattooers I'm assuming you looked up to and and had a g respect for you know was all so good and I think too the the creativity level is what was so exciting is was like I I feel like this is a little lost now but you used to go to a convention and you'd be like holy I have to do the best tattoo I've ever done because every single person around me is going to do the same yeah and that was every single

day at Red dagger it was like if I don't do the best tattoo ever I am going to solidify myself again as the worst tattoo here yeah that's fantastic dude that's the only way to get better that's grinding yeah and then I had again I had so many different perspectives of help you know like Compton his hands down probably the most creative person I've ever worked with yeah and then Aaron is so locked into how he works and what he does and why he does it and then Sean was like far more loose and like open to like trying things oh okay yeah so Abel is like the most like mechanically like perfect like every getting tattooed by him like every mag stroke felt the same oh damn so it's like I had all these different things and I had access to all of them every day and were they all pretty diverse Styles you know different styles yeah that's great at the time Compton and arum were pretty similar um and then Compton kind of started getting I don't I hate saying more creative but more more trial and error he was like I'm going to try this and see what happens he was like kind of early into the anime stuff okay like kind of before anyone else was doing that and like um I actually have he did like a Mike wasowski from Monster t for for me okay and he's like got like a lean cup and he's like doubled like he's blurry yeah and um has some Houston influence there yeah I was like I want a Houston tat but I want to be like a Houston tat you know and that's where we got to that but then he started

doing stuff like that where it was like funky and weird and then you know Aaron's on this kick of doing like really fat animals right now all right it's hysterical if you haven't seen they're like these bees and they're like super thick it's so Ador like their head is sunken in they're so thick I love awesome how was the like the vi in Texas like interactions with other shops and everything well so like a healthy environment you know I think yeah I was so overwhelmed by being there that I think it was just like trying to keep your it yeah and then Aaron and I were traveling like twice a month if not three times a month oh okay good at that time so it was like genuine chaos like it was just like times where it was like I came home I did my laundry and put it back in the suitcase and the next day I was going somewhere else and it was like a lot of that for a few years which is so good like anytime you're pushing yourself and get in these environments like that's just every time you travel it's like this new odd environment you're can't you know you don't have all the proper tools and all that stuff set up it's great well then it was like weird being home I got to the point where it was like dang my stuff is in the dresser this is weird and you were still such a young tattoo right yeah like two two or three years in or something like that or uh red dagger I was year five I moved there so like year 6 S8 was there um which I think couldn't have gone any any better it was I was

like technically good enough that if they suggested something I was able to apply that yeah whereas like it wasn't like the information was too overwhelming I didn't know how to use it yeah I was like oh we'll try this I okay which is your grow time like that's so great yeah after those first couple years of just making like all the silly mistakes and then you start to at least well and you obviously know this too but you've got now like your base layer of like security you're like I know if I'm struggling with a tat I can take this machine out I can set it up in this tube with this needle and I am going to tattoo really well with that yeah yeah so you got that now you're like okay yeah I'll try this I'll try that you know because now you've got this security blanket of okay well at the Baseline I can always pull this out and save this you're like if it's not working I can just pick this up and I can save this t right yeah speaking of like not know how to use your equipment was there you got any like fun stories go back to like you know when you're going through those first couple years of tattooing and you're like I don't know what's going on trtic you're stressing I mean there's always the Dan of like Street shop where you misspell something or but stick out that I was like I had an apprentice like put together I had to put together my tattoo machine you know or had an apprentice I was The Apprentice you know but I put the Capac on backwards and I was tattooing like

leaning in on my like sixth tattoo and the capacitor blew up in my eye and I remember it go pop and I was like um I had one eye closed and I was like what is going on dude and I just need to put down my machine and act like everything was cool it's always the worst scariest things oh my God it stressed me out so much dude and you're just terrified and you're like what about those like stressful moments when you're in the shop and you got all these fantastic T around you and you feel you're feeling really confident about what you're working on and then the dude in the next Booth over comes over and he's just standing over silently got those like those those sweating it moments when other artists that you look up to well I think again like what we were talking about in the car it's like I I was so close with Timmy so it was like I was working conventions with Tim when I never in a million years should have been allowed to be there like genuinely should not have been there so I was used to like people standing over me to try and get to Tim like bumping into me while I'm tattooing people at a convention trying to see what Tim's doing so I kind of lost like that like whatever I'll just figure it out like you know whatever um my favorite is um Steve Martin he work black 13 his was not not even in that regard he would come over and he would you know be sitting like hey what a what machine is that and before you could answer he was gone he like look over and he'd already left and I

think about it all the time still like I it's so funny it was always so funny cuz I would be like oh this Steve's asking what I'm using you this is exciting and then I would look over and he' be gone and oh dang that's awesome yeah like back more to your uh traveling it looked like you were doing some you had you you mentioned you had a friend that was a tour manager and he kind of lined you up to T shout out Lloyd Williams all right um yes so in it had to have been in the red dagger era 2016 maybe um Lloyd asked me to tattoo the band he was working for band called against the Kern yeah like a girlfriend rock band The Sweetest nicest people ever and they've since taken me absolutely everywhere which is sick they're the best um but yeah Lloyd and I had never met Lloyd had worked with my brother at Disney World in the past oh okay he like took a break from touring they worked at Disney World they met each other they became friends he started touring again he's like yo this the band I'm working for wants to get tattooed you know whatever um I was in Tampa guesting I was like I'll just come up to Warp Tour in Orlando tattoo you guys that day and then I'll kick you know get out of there and um it was like the craziest day I showed up at like 9:00 I tattooed till like 4:30 4 45 every time I die was playing and then right next to them against the current played right after so I went Lloyd got me grilled cheese and French fries from catering and I stood side stage I watched every

time I die eating my grilled cheese I walked down one stage onto the other stage watched current and then I went back and I tattooed till like 2: a.m. damn so it's just like on a bus you know massage table in the middle of the alley like people crawling under over slamming the door and you're like partying their asses off too all around your work environment well they they were young then they were um I want to say like 18 19 20 like okay at I think I think Chrissy maybe Will's the oldest and I think will was 20 at the time so they weren't even like old enough to drink in public and we were there so like they were more just like this is crazy we're on warm tour this is the greatest day ever you know and so you know I go and I do that and then we had a good time whatever I go Lloyd calls me like a few days later he's like hey they want you to come back out and I was like bro that was way too much like if have me out for like a week and I can you know kind of make it a little easier on myself and do a couple tats a day not you know 10 a day that would be awesome yeah and he was like all right I'll call you right back literally 4 minutes later he calls me and he was like come out as long as you want so then I flew to San Diego and I picked up Warp Tour with them there okay so you were on a Warp Tour which is all just within the states right yeah so I did Warp Tour with them yeah for pretty much all of California um and then I flew home from Vegas oddly enough yeah my last day

was in Vegas and the funnier part is Lloyd and I had to go out by ourselves in Vegas cuz the kids in the band were not old enough at the time to go out drinking oh so they couldn't be in the casino after a certain time it was 21 so fny yeah lloy and I went and had drink so then I flew home the next day that's awesome it's so funny but yeah that kind of like created that option for me yeah because I had always seen people like Jim Sylvia and you know people like that that had done it but like Jim was in a band previously and then he was going out with um TI and all those guys and like doing sleeves on people and wasn't like Oliver Peck and stuff he was cruising through doing the war T back in the day too yeah I always thought that was sool did it for a long time too yeah she she's a good friend of mine as well she just opened um Fade to Black in Charleston okay um that's North Carolina Carol South Carolina okay yeah she got me linked up with a lot of people as well like she introduced me every time I die guys and some other people in the music world cuz she had done that for a long time so there people feel like that's more challenging than just getting your feet wet in a walk-in shop I mean you're you're in a different space every time and you got day new people and they are already most of them I'm assuming are kind of in a party mode or at least they vacation yeah or it's like I mean Warp Tour is rough because it's 100° every day yeah so a lot of people are just miserable

they don't want to leave the bus there's nowhere to go like you're just kind of like so you go to warp T you're all excited you're like this is so sick and then like everyone that's there is like no dude it's 105 today Vegas like our shoes are melting to the I remember hiding yeah hiding in the bleachers like this everyone's like stuffed in some sliver of shade there whatever California was great cuz it was nice it's just beautiful like the first day was San die and I was like oh this is awesome it like 75 I was like this is awesome yeah I had a hoodie on I like this is crazy this yeah I can't wait I'll be there all night sweet yeah that's my favorite place I have my P I know yeah flying on Friday nice yeah it's great how was um the Carolinas you were back and forth between the Carolinas or just in just in North Carolina I went from working for bill again I after red D I went work for bill again like I said for about a year and then um I had met Brandon um who is the shop manager of made to last okay um I met him at a convention with Ryan Ryan Thomas yeah he introduced Ryan yeah he's the best best my tat Dad yeah um yeah so Ryan was going to guess it made to last and Brandon's dad lives in Savannah okay so he was down seeeing his dad he came and saw Ryan at the convention Ryan introduced me and Brandon Brandon and I hit it off he invited me to come to the shop I had guested there a few times and then they're like yo you should come work here and I was like you know at

the time it was like you know obviously Chris Stewart Matt skinny those two alone you're talking about like almost 40 Years of tattooing collectively between the two of them damn like Matt work for Ruben do and um a king's Alro oh wow yeah that's awesome and yeah I mean just so much to learn there Chris is you know him and Tim Hendricks are super close and Dan Smith so there was a lot of people that I've been in the room with the other side of tattooing it seems like you know with the Timmy's and the Ryan and those guys and then it was like whoa I can be in a room with you know those guys that's crazy I didn't even think that was possible you know and now it's cool cuz I was able to work there and then get introduced to all those guys and Justin weather Holtz you know all those guys are so cool man and um yeah made to last was was such a good experience for us cuz it was cool it was kind of that same feeling that I had in in Houston like well I don't really know anybody here like I'm kind of on my own and um yeah and then Jess and I had just started dating before we moved there yeah so it was like I just moved there Jess and I had been on like two dates and then Co happened oh then it was like at the time Chris's wife was having U she was pregnant and she was dealing with like breast cancer so it was like okay let's just close the shop let's get ahead of it we'll close the shop everybody was like yeah cool we don't want to risk this let's go we closed the shop but it was

like two and a half months we were closed and I just moved into my apartment and I was like I'm just going to go home like I'm going to go stay at my mom's like yeah cuz Brandon was like the only person I was close to with at the time cuz I hadn't even been there long enough to get to know everybody super well um so I go back and oddly enough Jess and I were like let's just live together let's just try it see what happens yeah if it doesn't work you don't have to move or I don't have to come back like we can just try it and see what happens and now fast forward however many years we got a dog and we've been together the whole time um but yeah it was cool cuz we were able to go back and then it was like I got to make a bubble a bubble with like my family and Jess all that and we had a really good time in that time for how not great of a situation it was we had a really really good time you know my nephews were there and it it was cool um yeah and then I got to go back and then um like eight eight or nine months later Jess then moved up um so then it was like then Jess was there and then we got to live there so it was cool it was like for us it was like a a cool thing like we found our dog there and rescued her there and so it was like a cool yeah cool experience and you know they they were so good to us like Brandon took such care of me I stayed at his house for I don't even know how long so it was cool we had a really good experience and then from there you you went to back

to Tampa yeah back to Tampa and but you went straight to the your private studio now right yeah yeah so I I had talked to my friend Matt well Matthew he prefers okay um he owns um piercing only Studios called Bloom Bodyart they're absolutely beautiful he's one in St Pete one in Tampa and I believe one in Orlando coming sometime soon sweet and I was like look I want to do my own thing I think I'm ready to do that I don't know what to do I'm not too sure I was like you've done this successfully multiple times now like so I reached out to him he was like Yo dude I have like a room in my Tampa shop that I don't use he's like I don't really want to spend the money to build it out right now to make more piercing rooms whatever he's like just use it try it okay get settled see if you like it if you don't like it then you just yeah yeah you know you just leave and go work somewhere you know and I was like okay you know that's not a bad idea I continue to kind of look for spaces to see if I can find something that I could really you know have it be my own thing um and he's like don't be silly just try that so that's what I'm doing now so we're like kind of like as a like a suble inside of their Co so if you know it's there you know it's there if you don't there's no signage on the wall like you wouldn't know it's there you and Adam what's his last name I forgot Adam Dunning Dunning yeah incredible the nicest dude on the planet you guys just clicked and got yeah we've been friends

forever we have um we have a bunch of mutual friends um yeah Adam tattooed one of our mutual friends and was like kind of having like struggles with it and was like Yo dude like hit up Mason see if he he can help me figure out why this is happening yeah so then our mutual friend text me he was like yo Adam's like tattooing me and like he's had an issue like he's asking if you can help him so then I was like texting back and forth with that I'm trying to help him through it and then that kind of like started our like open communication of like oh this guy's cool this guy's cool like we have this dud like our friend David he's the nicest dude ever and he like kind of like brought us together so now we've been friends for quite a long time now

sweet but it's funny cuz I I had a a short list of like people in the area that I was willing to work with you know and I was like I'm going to call Adam first and see and ad was like wait seriously yeah dude let's go like I'm in and I was like oh really really yeah are you sure yeah you sure he's like yeah that's good yeah his works too is so it's like so different but just as clean and pretty and well executed it's really cool yeah and it's just knowledge endless knowledge he's not just not just doing it he's learning how to do it and continuously doing his research and he's studying that's great yeah how's the networking and um like in Tampa with the tattooers and the the vibe there like it's it's actually it's awesome it's funny how it's changed like now just in Tattooing in general like everyone's a little more free to share things which is cool um but like Matt shop and and Bill my mentor shop are six blocks away from each other sweet so I see them all the time and vice versa and and then Adam came from a big shop called electric gold in St Pete um and um I think they have like 12 people there yeah and so like all of those guys were kind of all like in that same group group now like and then Steve O's down there so him and his Steve what's up yeah Jonathan are all they're great I just did their podcast last week okay I know tats all folks I want to go do it well if I make it out there to Florida I'm going to try to come get a handful of few things yeah which I will

I'll make it out there I promise I want to take the kiddos out there and but yeah so it's It's cool cuz it's tight you know and it's I mean Steve and I worked together when I went back to Tampa after Houston as well cuz he was at Bill shop as well Okay so we've kind of had a lot of crossover and Matthew who I'm renting from he was also there okay so Matthew was piercing at Bill's shop Ste tattoo in there I was tattoo in there Bill's like the Godfather of your network he is truly yeah yeah I'm super fortunate because um I had absolutely nothing to offer him when he gave me apprenticeship I didn't draw I had nothing to bring to the table I was a piercer at another shop and he needed a piercer oh so you pierced first yes I didn't know about that yeah um was that like a way to get into the industry at the time or was completely on accident oh okay yeah more on accent yeah um so my brother and I were stage hands for a company called thei okay so like the guys in the black shirts that move all the off the stage and bring it back on the stage we were those guys we got paid next to no money but it gave us the freedom to play music as much or as often as we wanted and that's what we did my brother got a job as a drum Tech with Gavin de gr oh W so then he left and was like I'm on tour like and I was like well this is not that fun anymore like I'm doing this by myself like bunch of old heads are just bullying me remove all this crap you know and the shop that we hung out with um Jim

Galloway Chopper scosi Dedra it was just this cool group of people and they took good care of us I don't know J Jim was an apprentice and he started tattooing my brother and I for cheap cuz we saw him all the time his shop was like right across one of the venues we always worked um you know we hit it off came friends he would tattoo us and you know he would be like hey I want to try this and we like okay yeah we'll find a spot you know whatever and then that kind of got us in that group and then we started playing like a like kind of like a fun like shitty punk rock band with them to like play t conventions just cuz it would be fun and then um they're like dude you should work here and I was like I don't think I want to do that and then the

restaurant I was working at like everything was weird and I was like I think I'm just going to leave here and then I didn't have a job for like a little while and um they talked me into it like two weeks later I was a piercer and I was like yo this is crazy I don't know how I got here justum and then fast forward later and they were like yo you're going to be a piercer forever you going to learn how to tat I was like bro I don't even know how to draw what do you mean am I going to learn how to tat really you weren't illustrating back then no I wanted to play music and absolutely nothing else damn that's that's impressive that's really cool well that's why it takes me so d damn long now because I'm still you know okay I'm still trying to figure out how to do that which is cool cuz it there's no easy way to learn how to draw you just have to draw yeah that's it put in work man yeah so it's cool but yeah so that happened and then around that time Bill needed someone and our bands were playing music together so we we' cross over and my girlfriend at the time was getting tattooed by him Timmy was there still okay um so we had a lot of crossover and he was like should come work here and I was like you should teach me how a tat he was like no like I you don't even know how to draw like why would I teach you how to tat you know I was like well you need a pierer and like where I'm at will teach me now so like I might just stay here and then you know we went back and forth for a

while and kept telling me know and then finally he was like look dude I need someone yeah and then it was we kind of had more of a conversation like dude I don't know if I know how to teach someone at a tattoo but if like the shop is willing to all kind of collaborate on yeah that's great and then it was like you know all those guys really who made it possible you know I think Ray Dyan was there at the time Mark the drizza he like the cool I have him literally tattooed on my leg all right it's hilarious um yeah I had him tattoo him as a wizard on my leg okay it's hysterical cuz he's like he's got big long beard zy top style ni he's the coolest dude ever um but yeah so it was him and then um yeah him race Dyan I don't I don't know Joe lir was there at the time that I started um and then Timmy was guessing there all the time and then Bill obviously um so it was like a solid group and then um yeah it was just I got all the help I could have possibly needed and some how was your apprenticeship experience like compared to maybe what you heard them back in the day for I think it was to me it was great um I definitely was treated as the little guy and that was cool um but at the same time I knew I knew how to work hard I was young and I was willing to work he wanted I wasn't that young I was like 22 23 um well yeah I was like 21 34 now yeah I was like 21 um but so I managed the shop certain days and I was piercing every day that I was there that's great so there was days where I

would be answering the phone while doing an apprentice tat while you know taking piercings at the same time so I think too like Bill was way kind to me than he probably should have been because I was doing all the other we were doing so many things that was like um and then on the weekends we had two piercers you know and then we had shop help so it was like the the weekends were a lot easier cuz then I was just a piercer and I could do tats and then if I wanted to tattoo I would just let John do the other stuff be like I'm just not going to pierce today just take all of them you know so it's was cool in that regard you know um but yeah I was and again I was just so fortunate cuz Bill then introduced me to Keith and Timmy which Timmy introduced me to like black 13 and Ryan and and it just kind of was like holy I'm around all these people that are way better than I am really early on you know yeah yeah I think that's awesome unfair Advantage for sure yeah very advantage that's awesome that's great dude that's cool it was fun it's been fun it's still fun I guess yeah right I it's like that's the beauty of it like if you look wake up every single day and you feel like this is this is a fresh new start and you're just trying your hardest to try to be the best we talked about that earlier every single time you sit down to do something not just your tattoo but your branding or your you know the way you approach any of anything you're doing and you put it all in there and it's

and you learn something from it and you get better the next day and the next day and the next day it sounds like you're extremely hungry and that's obviously why uh you're so talented these days it's cool as man it's like I'm like I was doing like a deep dive on your Instagram and it was just it was so I thought flattering from your standpoint and not I mean you deserve it obviously but like it's cool to see your your peers like I think we all when we go into something we hope to just hear those Praises or those nice things from the people that we looked up to in the past or still look up to today and your like Instagram is like every fantastic tattooer I feel like that's in your genre because I talk to them all about sports that's why they

just cool just cheer for him that's greats or whatever but he's really cool it was cool man it was really like wow I I don't know I just just I would imagine that feels so good so I think too Bill and Tim and those guys like taught me how to be good at tattooing and then I had like people like Ryan that taught me how to be like a a good person and have like the balance of all of the stuff cuz I don't I mean you you know Ryan well Ryan's the most disciplined person I've ever met in my entire life so awesome you know like so structured and so like when he's with his family he's with his family when he's in work he's working like super efficient like no wasted time eats the same meals every day he's just so that was so cool for me because I've

never been like that I was just not that type of person I was like ah we'll figure it out when we get there I was just kind of like free flowing yeah and then it was like I started meeting people like Ryan that was like oh if you are intentional you can 10x that and I was like wo this is crazy yeah so that I think I I had too many good things that it was like oh okay I just have to take a little bit from all these guys and kind of learn how that can make me 10x just whatever whatever it was I wanted to do yeah yeah when you called him your tat dad I was like I feel that same way about him like I don't yeah I just like you said like he was I feel like I was kind of a hot mess when I was out there doing conventions and stuff just like partying and like drinking a cor light in the shower before I went to go work you know like he was always you weren't going to feel too good to do your tat you had no choice but he was always just so pleasant to be around and always he felt like that Guiding Light too so smart yeah he was so smart very smart yeah on business aspect too and all the stuff that he's involved down in Nashville is like yeah yeah Rachel too his wife power power Duo I know I miss him I I kind of want to go down there um let's see let's let's like do you have any like advice like I said I really like the way that you put yourself out there I like the you know your branding and your I guess like there self-branding these days right I mean now you your studio do you

have any advice for like younger tattooers on how to kind of approach that and authenticity like I think the the upside to doing that is figuring out who you are yeah you spend all this time like you're like oh man Bobby's tats are so cool I want a tat like that it's like okay well figure out why Bobby's tats are so attractive to you and then see how you draw and try and find your own space you know um and I feel like from playing music and expressing myself and then having to do that it was like well more often than not you're in a band with people and they don't want to do that stuff and I was like I want to make t-shirts I think that's cool like I want to do that stuff I want to look cool and make cool things that look cool so for me it was like that attraction was always there so then when it was like oh well now I'm I'm Mason the tattooer how do I brand that without my name all over it that was like my whole goal was like I want someone from wherever to see a hat and be like yo who made that hat that thing's cool yeah cuz that is what I I would do you know it's like you see a supreme hat and you're like oh it's a supreme hat cool and you might like how that looks but it's like so straightforward in what that is yeah I remember walking through the airport and seeing you in Austin Texas and you had your on and I was like I think you gave Brian or Brian bought one or something but I was like I like that you know and I just love that like I don't know I love when people are

out there kind of pushing themselves and and like you said it's not at that point in time it's not so it's not about you really you're building this like this this brand this experience for people that are coming in to deal to not deal with you but you know no 100% like maybe somebody likes your work and they want to get a tattoo but they can't really afford it or something or they just want to watch you and be a part of it they could pick up a hat and be a part of your another big thing that was so interesting to me is like well I'm traveling all the time and I'm meeting all these people and these people are getting tattooed by me all these different places but like what if I only go to Detroit once a year yeah and I only have 3 Days To tattoo there at a convention what if I can't get to everyone in Detroit that I met well what what about people that don't have $300 or you know whatever so it's like what can I offer people that from 0 to $300 you know yeah or even $100 Z to $100 what can I offer people that's not you know yeah something um but your initial question was advice that I would give and I think kind of figureing out what you like is is the the most important part yeah you know cuz to me like even like when it comes to tattooing being inspired by tattooers is good because that you've seen it successfully you know but like I I like all kinds of other stuffff you know yeah I'm a gamer I like sports you know I like all these different weird things that make me who I

am and then it's like tapping into that and figureing out um Dave Bru I feel like is the absolute most authentic person in all of tattooing like his color palettes his everything like he is just this embodiment of himself and I feel like you see it so visually in his art that that Dave tatto look the way they do CU he is Dave and he's doing that tattoo I think that's so cool and I think that's what you know I think we all want yeah it's you know kind of hard I mean it's obviously harder cuz there's so many more people in tattooing these days to stand out yeah everyone's so good I always try to push that individuality and like just you know I know this may be trending right now or something you're real popular but you can take your take a little bit from it put it into whatever the you want and choose and build your own light like yeah I was talking about this in my class the other day because I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan purple and yellow I'm a Lakers fan purple and yellow I absolutely hate purple and yellow too it's such a punishing colorway so now I've set out on this journey to figure out how I can tattoo in a color way from those okay but um make it not so sports team looking yeah I don't know if you saw that like witch hand I did with like the sun in the background but I found like this purple gray combination to neutralize the purple so it's still purple but it's kind of gray yeah and then I have the ability to use like the bright yellow with like more of like a brassy

tone yeah to look like that colorway but not be that colorway and be like oh it's kind of fun like now but that's my that's me as a failed athlete that still watches the NFL combine you know and it's like oh man I love this game like how do I like put that part of me into tattooing so then it's like okay cool you know yeah but it's like Padre's hat I I've been to two games there I can't tell you a single person on their roster currently the coolest Stadium the coolest colorway brown and yellow it looks so cool so you're like oh yeah I like that I might steal it I want to do some Maverick stuff do it you should you should it's so cool um oh you mentioned your uh seminar we were we were super excited to help you out or be a part of it um do you tell tell us a little bit about the seminar you put together yeah chaotically I tried to do it all in one day which is terrible idea U it was way too much for one day um but it was really fun because um I think I had 14 people 15 people I didn't charge them anything yeah yeah and it was in our tiny little shop our one little room inside a mat shop and um yeah it was it was cool because I a it helped me go so far into my own stuff that I was like wow I'm in shambles I got to step this up but I pulled my stuff apart so far that it was like oh I need to like refocus on this and this and this and then you also kind of get the idea of like oh this kind of nice I don't really think about this anymore I just am doing it like these things and

then um yeah it was cool I I had everyone kind of email me with what they were struggling with um so that I could gear what I was teaching to the things that they were having issues the first time you've done anything like that I'll get her done um I had taken Bobby's class at Eden de shop which oh god oh so they did the winter symphonium which is even crazier yeah I did just Bobby's his solo one um at the shop um but their winter SYM bonium was sick I'm sure it was amazing I didn't get to go to that I'm sure it was great some yeah oh my God they're doing crazy stuff but yeah so I my Kmart version of that was me doing my little thing and um it was cool again I broke down my stuff super far and then I had Steve was there Steve ochre Steve oer has been tattoing longer than I have 17 years 18 years so like I had to teach Steve ochre something and some other tattooer that was been tattooing 6 months so figuring out how to get enough information that Steve leaves with like oh yeah cool I didn't really think about that maybe I should try and focus in on that and then not overwhelming Harrison my six-month tattoer with like holy this is way too much information I don't know what to do you know obviously certain things cat a great way to do it and I had everyone in between you know like Susie and um Taylor were there and they've been tattooing for like six seven years each um and it was like so it was like a wide range of how long people have been tattooing that were there and then

obviously I had the information that they had given me of what they were struggling with so it was cool to like gear everyone like I made sure that I had something that everyone had on their list and then seeing stuff that they all had crossover a lot of them were like you know saturation with certain colors and then we talked about that and then it was like figuring out you know again we were talking about this right before we started how many needle configurations are out there and how daunting that can be and how stifling it can be you're trying all these new things cuz you see all these things and it's like well now you've not created any consistency to to have that safe like that's tough bro I can do the Lord's work with a n mag yeah you know I know that 100% flat n mag put that in my hands I'm going to make a good tat so now if I want to try you know whatever anything beyond that I keep that as like my base layer of I've got this in the bag let's try this you know yeah we should I need to do like a lot more informational type stuff like that to help everybody especially younger tattoos I mean even older tattooers that are transferring over to cartridges and you're like it's a whole different world you know going from yeah how would you know that three options on bar to yeah what the I mean Timmy said to me he was like he's a tight three a tight 9 and a n ma yeah in the same same machines he's like buy three machines yeah and I use the same ones every time and he's like

just keep doing that and he's like when you are comfortable with that and you're making nice tattoos then try something else yeah he's like cuz then you'll know what you don't like he's like you'll know if you're you know cuz you have all those issues your rubber bands might be too tight your you know your paper towel grommet might not be doing the Lord's work you know so you've got to figure out all these things and it's like well if every day you set up the same stuff and the same tube everything you know when something isn't working yeah and then it's you know factchecking that and then you're like okay well these work every day for the past 6 months I've done good tattoos yeah with these machines let me try something else and then you try something else that's great yeah that's great but I I only got that info from Tim like I wouldn't have heard that otherwise or I wouldn't have figured that out otherwise now you go like you we were saying it's like you go on a website and it's like they've got long taper short taper medium taper textured not textured oh it's overwhelm and you're like this is crazy it's like bro I just wanted a tight three I don't care what any of the other things are I just wanted a tight three yeah huh yeah keep it simple keep it something yeah but that was like my biggest thing is like if you can figure that out then when you have an issue you know what the issue is and you can sort that so you don't have any worries and you know um hopefully that hit

home it did for me so yeah what guys so I don't know how's how's the future of tattooing looking for you or like what what kind of stuff you got it keeps getting better which is crazy to me it genuinely keeps getting better like um I don't know yeah do bigger tattoos or that is what I have been doing which is crazy I've started a bunch of backs recently okay that's a big deal big commitment it's hard to get clients to commit they I didn't think I was that good you know the Imposter syndrome of just being like damn you want your whole back Happy by me that's crazy you know but it's cool now because um again like I'm able to ask all of these people we talked about in my corner like such like um precise questions yeah you know that's great like I I was just chatting with Chris Prim the other day about backs and I was like yo are you lining these like as is like how you're going to do the lines and he's like no he's like I'm great lining them cuz I'm going to need to line them again later so why would I do it twice so he just rips through okay okay yeah so like a like a lighter gray wash you know kind of put everything there and way you can kind of fine-tune and adjust in and build like that's great I know and I actually justed it the other day okay I did dudes like back to back knees which is crazy um and yeah I did it that way and it was super smooth I got him through it I think a lot better too where time frame wise you know to out of back like two full five six yeah it

took me like five okay U just like what like a loose n or or like gray wash and no I I just did like um those those black claw um fours four TI fours okay so just really likely yeah with like a light but it's just present in it I still make it clean you know and look nice and you know obviously certain areas you know you're going to make black so just line it in Black yeah then I'll get a second pass on but instead of going and switching back and forth to like a big line then a small line big line small line it was like just a small line the whole time and I could work more efficiently and he was then like oh this doesn't hurt more or hurt less or there's not this constant pause and start and stop um but I had never thought to do it that way you know okay and from that and then I have another the first back I did um on my buddy Tim I lined it like for real the first time and he was dying and it was like almost an hour and a half longer it was like six and a halfish hours it probably took me to line his back and butt and it was like bro like how much worse it probably was for Tim just because I didn't know to ask that I was so overwhelmed by doing it I was like w this is crazy and you know I spent all this time on the drawing like 50 hours I think I spent on his drawing you know and just kept like trying and trying and trying and you know I would send it to Bobby Bobby would send it back to me or you know I would ask Ryan you know this or that yeah I just kept you know cuz I

was so nervous it's like I've never done it back before what if I it up and no one's going to get it back for me ever again you know so it was like the pressure you know the probably personal pressure of that just stressing myself out that's so great but it was cool that you know like I said now I have the ability to ask those questions so directly yeah I can be like well why are you doing this why you know I saw you did this why did you do that cuz and then I can take that and tie that into what I'm doing that's beautiful which we're lucky cuz like you're were saying the future of tattooing is more open to sharing that information you know it's we're more keen to be like hey I tried this and it worked for me you should try it rather than being like yeah you know I love it like I I I kind of came from a more of the old school environment where I I unfortunately didn't I had people around me and they were willing to share until I went out and did my own shop and then nobody would talk to you you know I was like okay you know so um I don't know I I love that you're using the resources you're genuinely in love with those people too which is and they feel that that's why they're willing to share and feedback to you you know they know your purpose is good even now like I'm tattooing like I'm doing now because of Bobby yeah like Bobby and I were guesting at Bill's shop at the same time he was working on Bill's back and I was just like I was doing really really nice more

traditional Neo stuff and it was like a moth it looked like a zero machine made it like a sticker you know it healed perfectly fine it was really like loud like Reds and yellows and very like harsh like intense colors and I was so bored it was like every day was like oh today I have a moth a moth a moth and flowers and I would do three four a day and you know they were this big they would take me 2 and 1 half hours they would be as good as I can make them you know and it was just like I felt like I was just rinsing and repeating rinse and repeating and I wasn't doing bad work no yeah so still doing a really nice tattoo and Bobby was like well what do you like and I was like well I like your stuff and I like you know lars's stuff and you know we started going down the list of all the people that I got excited to to see when they posted a tack like Lars Loop yeah touched by him in Berlin that's so cool like The Godfather dude The Godfather I don't know think I don't I feel like nobody knows about him really he's like a Chris Khan they just it's like for some reason it just is like and it's like which Cur is tattooing again which is cool c yeah okay I have I have a handful of prints that I bought way back in the day with when he was retiring yeah yeah I've got something too um but yeah so you know I'm having this conversation with Bobby and he was like man you just seem not into it and I was like I'm just I don't know what to do like I'm really good at this I'm doing really

nice tattoos Everyone likes them you know the most interaction I was getting it on social media was then and you know y y y all of my favorite tattooers were like holy this thing's dope and I was like damn this is not fun anymore yeah you know and Bobby was like bro just tat like us yeah and I was like what do you mean he's like do like we're doing that you're saying you like I was like well you guys are already doing that like yeah he's like yeah but none of us can do it the way you would I was like he's a sweetheart you're not wrong and then it was like I mean even until it's still now I still will send him drawings and it'll scrible on it and send it back to me whatever which is sick about the iPad era yeah as much as we want to dog the iPad era it's made me so much better I dog it for a second I love be so much better I had a younger tat show up one day in the shop he was like two years in and he had this iPad and I was like what the what are you doing over there man I'm over there stressing on my giant sketch pad my Sten you know whatever he like so you do like this and you can do like this I up went out B one the next week and never look back like it's so great so great good oh man so that's like a lot of your process obviously is all through and the fact that we can just take pictures of our clients so they can text us pictures and then draw right over them and then everything flows and fits well and if it doesn't you just stretch a little bit yeah yeah and then it

fits FL or something in a dead spot yeah do you have any advice actually uh uh about kind of like what we're um completely rainart what I was talking about there um oh about pushing your clients to get those new tattoos that you want to do you know you like you were in that rut there for a second you can do what slaying it but you want to progress obviously so how like I think it's just like introducing it like people don't know to get that from you if they've never seen it yeah if you're really good at doing portraits and no one's ever seen you do a portrait cuz you don't post them on Instagram or post them to your blog or whatever you use your email list yep we should talk about that we everyone should have incredibly important yeah Instagram was down yesterday or the day before and everybody was like just like bro dude diversifying your your Outreach 12 seconds I can send an email to everyone that's it's so incredibly important you don't even need a website I I push a website but like um I yeah you can use that as a tool that's instant reach yeah and so you put out those new drawings right so you're like I want to do these new drawings no and then you put them out in your email list yeah or even like um I got these available like I I obviously I I don't share a lot of my personal life on my Instagram so for me I made a close friend's story of available drawings okay um it kind of cheats the story algorithm and those people will see your stuff more often because

there's only certain of people on it so it will be shown to them more often um so that's a little kind of I don't want to say it's a hack it isn't 100% but it does help you know you could just make a post and be like hey if you want to be on my close friends list I will be posting available drawings and blah blah blah and then you just it's a absolute pain in the ass to add people to it really um yeah so like I did it that way I made a story and I was like respond to this and then that way I could go to the message I could click on their profile and then add them my close friends okay then it also get comments in your profile stuff too which boosts up your your whatever but yeah so you know you draw some stuff you throw it up on there you email it out or you say hey I'm looking for a client to do this and if you do the drawing you render it espe again with the iPad you can take the colors that you tattoo with and Port them into your iPad and be like here this is exactly how I want to tattoo it yeah you know like color for color line for Line This is it like if you want it so when you say important are you what how how how's what's your process on that um I have the um like the Eternal ink sheet which I don't use solely Eternal but um it's very close and helpful there range is like I roughly know what the other colors from other brands will be okay based on what those colors are so I'm like oh I want hazelnut from Fusion well that's roughly X from Eternal you know whatever

that color is you know so then I know and then I can use a digital you drop in your procreate and then you just click and then you build your palette from there and then go yes it's sick but too you could um Mike stockings has put out so much free helpful information about the iPad he I'm trying to watch those right now okay he has one where he shows you um you can take a photo with the iPad and import that straight to procreate and it'll pull all the colors in the photo yep so you could that one the other day I thought that was great you could lay out a dental bib pour the colors that you want out on it take a photo of it and it will import them that's dope yeah or just like any like t-shirt design or something that you see or billboard where you you're like that color combination catches your eyes pull it build that yeah I I love that and you can use the little eye dropper if you don't want to get too techsavvy you just hold your finger on it and it'll tell you what color it is yeah I I I'm like I need to like yeah I love that late late nights like yeah get back in there yeah I still just use it just a sketch it only really like I mean for the most part mine is I you I Ed one layer I do a drawing I make another layer and I do a line drawing yeah you know and now I'm I'm rendering because I'm getting more time on my drawings now that I can schedule myself not as busy you know I'm down to like 4 days a week now okay um and I'm drawing two days instead of one okay so

typically when like when I was at made to last um I was doing all my drawings on Monday and then I worked Tuesday through Saturday and then Sunday Jess and I did whatever yeah and then Monday I drew all day okay so then it was like okay now I know when I'm done at 7:00 I'm going home I'm making dinner I'm not thinking about my drawings cuz I've already done them I'm and if I wanted to look them over and be like I fresh eyes I haven't looked at it in two days maybe I want to change something I have that freedom to do that the night before yeah that way I'm not like oh my God I haven't finished this I have to get up early ah you know how much do you share with clients prior to them show I don't usually um the bigger stuff I do now um mostly because um I have an influx of people traveling to me which is crazy as well um but I think too I've bounced around so much that now I've have like a lot of Charlotte clients flying down so I'm a little more lenient in showing that now and two I'm tattoing a lot of tattooers now yeah that's what I kind of noticed I would call you I personally would call you a tattooers tat which to me is the most flattering thing like at show I cry around that like oh my God aw that's what I was trying to get to earlier was like I like obviously like I'm not afraid of like collaborating with a tattooer they might see something that I didn't see and be like hey what if we try this I'm like oh that's a great idea dude it's so cool and I've never personally

experienced it so I don't know like I know you're going to work on one today like tell us maybe a little bit about that process yeah it's it's cool um it's cool because you're you're getting involved in someone else's process yeah manel's super fluid like so fluid in his drawings his drawings have so much action and they all look like he did them there's no like Aaron Springs him and I did a collab ages ago same thing like Aaron was like why don't we try this you know like kind of cuz I wasn't really there yet where I should have been involved in that like and he was like well let's do it together and I can help you and I was like cool whereas now it's like man was like yo bro just draw me a dagger and draw them off and then we'll put him together what ever and you know he did like we've done two sketches now so we did one and he like kind of did like a rough sketch of all of it yeah and then he sent that to me again the iPad sends it over procreate file uploads into my procreate I draw on top of it I email it back to him he gets it like exactly how I had it you know and then we're spending time like messing with the colors trying to figure out colorways and things like that so it's It's cool cuz especially like with him he's got like that graffiti stuff style background color-wise I don't do anything like that my stuff's a little more neutral and maybe I have one exciting color he's like let's do neon green with a gray purple snake and like orange and I'm like oh I didn't

really think of that you know and then it's cool cuz now we're like blending those together you know so it's cool to experience that um and it just is more learning that's the most intimate learning process right there I mean you're not just drawing together and then going off and doing your own tattoos I you were literally having to work together stuff catch your flows like all got to be working Randy and I did the same thing it was like I I I drew a bird and then I send it to him and then he sent it back with like flowers and all this other stuff a snake and then it was like oh I worked on this and then he sent it back you know we just kept going back and forth and then you know here we are the design and now we' got to tattoo it it's inspiring dude I'm like I'm stoked to talk to like yeah it's so stressful it's like cuz we obviously being a tat you get one try you know can't if you it up you really can't take it back yeah laser is good now but it's painful you know it's still a terrible experience for them you know so it's like then the added pressure of like well now I'm trying to impress the person I'm working with on this that was willing to collab with me so I don't want to let them down I don't want to let the client down yeah and now this is the only chance there you know maybe hopefully not but maybe this is the only collab a Manuel and I ever do that was the only collab you know me and Randy did or me and uh you know Aon did that's crazy to think that there's a

chance that maybe we don't ever do another one and that's the only one ever that's kind of crazy yeah for sure as far as like everything that we're experiencing and our consuming things limited but everything you know that it's kind of like crazy to think and like so for me it's trying to like enjoy the process as much as it is like not it up you know I'm trying to be like oh this is so fun you know and then still trying to be like oh I I I have to be the absolute best tatto ever today I was dude how crazy is it right now I don't know if this is just me but like how are clients getting tattooed for so long back to back more than ever these days I can't get tattooed for 20 minutes dude I watched you guys get their whole sleeve done three days back to back to back and like you're they they're physically I don't even know if they're they're physically there but they're mentally not there their arms are swollen sausages like having some good is doing like three days on people convention it's so crazy I don't want to get tattooed at a convention at all 6 hours like and you're like this is incredible and then it's healing perfect I don't yeah so every I was always taught that you were never allowed to go back and on a tattoo two weeks two week wait between you know and now everybody's just like no you just just work on up to8 hours 8 hours and then they're so beautiful and oppressive it makes sense to me though you got to get it down while the flows I just can't believe the

clients can s that long yeah I I've done two days in a row on Tim's back um and the first day I worked like on the love handle area and then the next day I worked on his shoulder so they weren't close to each other yeah um and he seemed to be cool with that both sessions were shorter than if we had done one long day I think like sobered think we did like four show yeah dude my buddy Brian um he works at M to last Brian Le brick um LeBron broke the alltime scoring record so I had him do LeBron's JY number on me like on my leg it's literally maybe this big yeah dude I was laying with like my hoodie over my head and he's like trying to talk to me and I'm like bro I this hurts so bad he's like dude what like I'm just I don't think I was ready you know it took him like 20 minutes you know I like terrible I do horrible I don't know how people do it I don't know I've been I've been motivated to get some more tattoos lately and I luckily I saved a lot of like my Prim real estate throughout my career so now I'm like going to choose it wisely I have no good spots left really yeah are you pretty and my torso my front and my ribs on this side um and my neck and like oh yeah my butt yeah you didn't do your neck or yeah yeah I got a little little something from my hands like yeah 25 years of tattooing and didn't have my hands or my neck done that's tight this is the coolest experience this was Tim H Yeah Tim hands down is the most like captivating person person I've ever met he's

beautiful he's talented God just swaged out of his mind you know he's so I want and he's you know he's got his legs crossed and he's like you know doing this Tad you're like oh you're so cool dude and uh yeah dude but I mean he could have been telling you a story about shoveling you're just like huh that's hilarious just the best Storyteller the most fun you know everybody in the room is like you know you just can't he's so energy I'm going to get out there and knowled it's so cool yeah yeah I want to go to the shop cuz he came to ma the last okay um so we got to experience him being there but I would like to see the shop and was heble experience you know like that's what's sometimes you see people like that you know you're like is that even possible I'm I'm chatting with them about what I want you know and he's you know he I'm not joking you this was just like one line and then another line and then he drew like a weird little shapes you know for the leaves and then just a circle and he was like what do you think about that and I was like trust you my I promise it's going to look just like every other Tim Hendrick Ros I've ever seen so yeah that's great and um you know I I'm chatting with him and he's like man your hand huh and I was like yeah I didn't really have intentions on getting my hands tattooed so I'm just going to probably do some smaller stuff on them so it doesn't feel so overwhelming he's like oh well I'm nervous now and I was like sure you are you know

you're just saying that to be nice and he's like yeah no this this is crazy I'm tattooing another Tattoo's hand well you save that you know but I remember watching New York Inc to watch him tattoo no okay you know like going and like watching those episodes just to see Tim tattooing and you're like wait this is crazy or like watching miam in to see Garver you're like Chris garver's on that show holy you know like this is before like you know yeah what was the what were those uh so how old were you at those times when those shows were coming out um cuz you're you're 34 34 yeah that must have been like 1920 21 some not tattooing and not tattooing yet yeah that's so wow that's so cool yeah yeah crazy crazy to think yeah cuz those shows kicked off like right when we opened up our first shot so um the boom I was like 2021 and just like where are all these people where are all these people coming from they're like lining up in front of shops to get tattooos crazy right really cool I remember Dan was on cat show yeah so I remember watching those episodes to see Dan tattooing yeah it's so crazy and now it's like I see him every time I go there you're like this is crazy yeah that's cool I'm I'm absolutely in love with where tattooing is right now I think it's so cool and I think you know I'm so happy that it's like this it seems like an open book now and it's friendlier and um just it's just so much of a more pleasant experience yes so um but you I I think we'll wrap it up you got to

go get some tattooing going on yeah yeah yeah I just want to thank you man for taking the time to do this really cool I had a really good time doing it and I don't know man it just it means a lot to me and like you're very inspirational dude Stu do I appreciate it I let's let's connect I'm like a podcast guy all of a sudden it's like two in a week that's fun I want to get out there Steves and then John Mesa invited me to do his oh yeah yeah so I'm going to try to get do a little touring and maybe go hit some other and they inspired me to do this yeah theirs is beautiful too they do a really good job with it yeah yeah John's like the most like Charis talking about charismatic dude like would do just like one of the Tates I'm pretty sure in the world always always for as long as I've known him at conventions just always had a different single to SM why are you so pretty bro yeah he's a good dude yeah that's cool well I appreciate it man thank you so much and uh make sure that you guys check out all the Mason stuff uh where can we reach you out and stuff um and stuff seven rers.us oh

The point of my seminar was to kind of set the tone for what metanoia tattoo Gathering is and it's about appreciating where you are as an individual and not like looking to anyone else and what they're doing like you are on your own path and you are on your own journey and you can't be comparing yourselves because you don't know what this person is all right guys welcome to support your local tattoo my name is Austin Spencer I'm super excited today we've got Mary Beth clar is that how you pronounce your last name right okay that's what I thought okay cool uh she's an entrepreneur a mother a fantastic tattoo artist an amazing illustrator and working on some really fun cool projects that we're looking forward to sharing with you guys so yes um so let's get going welcome welcome thank you for having me if I get to my radio voice on just kick me under the table I always get nervous and I'm like um I get into my animated voice so we like animated voices but don't worry we can just be weird together this is my first podcast so you're oh cool that's that's exciting it's mine too so so all right cool so you're a Las Vegas based tattooer right now you from what we talked about you spent a lot of time tattooing around the Pacific Northwest yes and your I kind of wanted to just get I en really enjoy hearing people's origin stories yeah where you came from how the hell you ended up in this wacky weird industry and it was very unplanned yeah yeah yeah so let's start there like you

mentioned that your husband was in the military and that was like what led you into tattooing like how does that work yes so I was tattooing was never my intention in life I was your like Miss Goody Two Shoes girl in high school I did choir drama Jazz choir student council volleyball like tattooing was never on my radar like at all um but I was always an artist I was always really into coloring and crafting and doing all that kind of stuff so I originally was going to college for Hospitality I was really into event coordinating and planning parties and things like that was something that I was really into in high school um with my job on at on student council so I actually got accepted to go to UNL student council I know plann the assemblies the dances all the good stuff that's F that's yeah uh so I actually you know in Oregon applied to go to UNLV to do the hospitality program I got accepted and I was going to do that and then last minute I just changed and decided to stay closer to home in Oregon to save a little bit of money and then transfer over and during that time I ended up taking a lot of like College art classes for my electives and just really fell in love with art um on a new level that I had never really like experienced before we were using a lot of different mixed media my art teacher was super incredible and really like championed me and my um interpretation of the assignments that she gave us I guess I I had a more abstract like layered look to

things I don't know I can't really explain it was just kind of got really weird um and so I just I I essentially just reell in love with art and and felt like I really needed to move in that direction but I didn't know what that was going to look like and ended up um deciding to do like I I was really in love with like the ads and The Vibes of like snowboard and surf magazine and stuff and I really wanted to get into like advertisement design for those companies oh cool so then I ended up getting accepted to go to San Diego State University to go in that direction but very shortly after I was accepted met my now husband Joel yeah awesome so that kind of put a pause on like all of my college Adventures yeah and he's in he's in the Air Force right yes when we met he was enlisted to go into the Air Force and we decided to stay together and long story short once he got to his first base I moved out there and we eloped and got married D yeah yeah he was in Alaska so we moved to or I I moved to Alaska and we decided to get married and um like a lot of stuff happened in between and couple deployments and things and then um eventually just decided that I would get into tattooing because it's a job that I could take with me anywhere oh wa okay yes it was like a logistically decision almost yes it was very logistic but you had your passion for art and everything obviously so yes yes yes thankfully I was like really into art but fell into tattooing as a result of like knowing that we

were going to be moving a lot yeah okay no damn so all your famili port or not Portland um in Oregon area some um yeah I do have a lot of family in Oregon okay that's that's where you went to high school and stuff or whatever okay cool yeah and then you ended up in Alaska yes that was our first base okay and that's where you started pursuing tattooing yeah so he deployed to Iraq like we found out on our wedding day that he was deploying to Iraq and I know it's such a shitty like wedding present I think we were like on our way to Pizza Hut for like our wedding dinner and then um then got a call and he had to deploy so during his deployment I worked in like this warehouse job um cuz I I wasn't in an apprenticeship or anything yet we just knew

like okay your next deployment I would go pursue and try to find an apprenticeship somewhere but during his first deployment I was kind of like working my way up to that and I was just working this random like warehouse job so it was dur it was like he came back from Iraq within a few months got orders to deploy again and then that that's when I moved back to Oregon since I had family there and I could live with them yeah we weren't up there just by yourself wasn't in Alaska by myself yeah and I did an apprenticeship um in a little town called Newport Oregan I don't know if they did that this back in the day I forgot uh they you do the what do what do you call it you don't have to go to the school back in the day right you still had like a traditional apprenti ship with with an artist so actually in Oregon it was tattoo school but the my mentor didn't treat it like this big school where he was pumping people out there was only probably three of us so it really did feel like more of an apprenticeship because there was only three of us and two out of the three of us they were already tattooing the other two guys that I was there with you had all men too um yeah that's like a what year was this again for because I forgot you 2008 2009 yeah okay so it was like was still pretty fun it it was really I mean it was pretty gritty time for me yeah yeah yeah yeah but I'm really grateful for it because like had that person not allowed me to work under him I wouldn't be here today and I

no matter how like you might have felt about that relationship or whatever or or maybe the skill sets that you were surrounded by what I found is a lot of people tend to just dud you take whatever way we can get in back in the day and make the best of it yeah but then also like I didn't know anything I was just yeah I me did we didn't I was just like you know but I'm just saying like I I didn't have an appreciation and a reverence for the craft you know what I mean I was young and stupid and I was just like oh this is just going to be my job and I didn't have like this intimate tie to tattooing that I think that you develop and you learn over the years yeah you know like you have this like reverence and love and appreciation for the craft of tattooing because what it's pulled out of you and and where it's where it's like taken you to you know what I mean um and the freedom that it's it's given you and so like I didn't have any of that understanding or appreciation for tattooing so there was a lot of like well when am I going to tattoo or like you know I deserve to be doing this right now and you know a lot of that like childish mindset yeah that's I was going to say it's like being a parent or something return on your parent is until like they're in their 30s so exactly so I know a lot of like my maybe bad attitude about my apprenticeship or like it was more internal I definitely didn't like disrespect anyone around me it was more of like an internal attitude um I look back

and I'm like I could have been tougher yeah no I remember those type of moments too yeah yeah yeah definitely it's good though yeah yeah do you have any like kind of fun stories about that oh gosh what like you know there's got to be some positive obviously like experiences out of that one thing that I really appreciated about my apprenticeship was like my mentor was like a clean freak he was OCD about you know preventing of cross-contamination and like really taught me like all of the really important like cleanliness habits and the way that you're supposed to go about tattooing and cleaning and sterilizing and all of that um although back in the day you know that's when we were scrubbing tubes yeah so he had this like tiny ass little closet like it was nasty and there's a little sink in there and you're in full biohazard gear at least had you in there I know but still you're just thinking it's like it was a dark closet you can't see anything in there like designed scrubbing tubes and heaven forbid nobody ever drains the autoclave or the um uh what the is it called why am I brain farting it the little ultrasonic oh the ult my I worked with some people back in the day that were it just never got drained and it just turned into this swampy muddiness and it was like well The Apprentice has to deal with it you know and you're just over there like like trying to keep your mouth shut and like I didn't ever like I dude some of the guys I've SE seen them do some weird like not

even wear gloves and like pull out of ultrasonic and stuff it's so Rish well at least you had that information just you're instilled in you that's good yeah yeah and then I yeah and then I'm just like at my shop like let's Matt aside the floors yeah yeah breathing in all of the goodness like I might have cancer because of how much mde I oh dude that the day that's no good we keep positive yeah keep doing my breathing just cleaning the inside of me yeah my mentor told me I had to start smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee to be a tattooer oh you're like I but neither one I got the coffee part down not the cigarettes yeah what do so what was your like the your first experience of doing a tattoo by yourself like how was that or like was your

Mentor somebody that was standing over you and making you shake while you were doing I was a very like nervous Nelly for sure I was definitely one of those people when when someone's standing over you you're just like shaking but he would be like angrily tell me how good I was yeah yeah that's something I'll never L marry birth he'd be like telling me that I was doing a good job but he'd be like sound all angry about it and I was like well thanks yeah but yeah she said you could you feel like you could have been tougher but you I mean you you made it through it right I did yeah and honestly it was like a really short it was really short apprentiship like yeah totally he worked with me on my timeline because my husband was going to be gone for a certain amount of time oh cool you were all upfront about that and everything absolutely I said you know my husband's gone from this time to this time and when he gets home you know I'm obviously my goal is that I would move back um to Alaska to be with him like as soon as possible you know and he understood that and so we did like plan out the apprenticeship in a specific timeline oh that's great which it's it was more of like a school curriculum yeah um but yeah so he was really good with that but it was like in Oregon you know it's tattoo school so you pay so you know was something that I paid for it wasn't like a mentorship where it was like I'll teach you my ways and then you're committed to working with me and for me that kind

of made do you think that made it a little less person of that connection I think so yeah it was more of a transaction you know and I think that like later in life is when I looked back on it more of like that really could have been more of a mentorship or like it's I think it's more important to do more of a mentorship because I don't know I guess I just have like a really different like a greater reverence for tattooing now than I ever did in my younger years so I'm just like a lot more sentimental about that stuff and I realized my apprenticeship just wasn't really that way but that's okay you know yeah yeah I still really appreciate where I came from and like where I grow up in Better Homes than others but some of us they grow up in a really good home end up being and some of us they grow up in a really terrible home endend up being some of the greatest people you ever met yeah so yeah absolutely that's good yeah what kind of like did you have a direction of when like as far as styles that you were kind of really into when you were like starting out were you're just like this is what I want to do right off the B no not at all you know because back then it was like you know we had had like nothing to reference right it was kind of like at least for me like it was whatever was in my own head but like so I didn't come up in that like tat like edgy punk rock world right so like I didn't really know like where to pull any inspiration from I guess other than my own artwork and

maybe that's normal I I mean that's probably really super normal I don't really know for sure um but yeah I I really like liked designing stuff that was my own artwork which was really weird and abstract and like awkward and I didn't know how to design for tattoos but that's kind of where I started and that was all I knew so like I just kind of leaned that direction in my artwork which that's great worked out well for you it wasn't good I guess you're I guess if your Mentor wasn't helping you translate your ideas and Direction then and it didn't sound like he did really yeah I mean or maybe thinking like I just I I don't really know how to explain it I guess he just was okay with me just drawing what I wanted to draw that's cool and um I remember certain things like there one funny thing that always I'll never forget and maybe other people did this too but like he set up a pencil like um with an actual tattoo machine right so I had to do all of my drawings with the weight on there and I remember my thumb was numb for like four months sh yeah dude I thought I was like permanently done for cuz it was so heavy and I was like skiest little you know yeah no grip or anything yeah I just can't even imagine doing that now dude yeah I tried to go back to coils like not too long ago and I got halfway through the tattoo I was like no no yeah I was literally thinking about that the other day I was like I kind of like interested in like pulling out some of my old coils and just being

like yeah I'm cool and they're beautiful I'm going keep them on display have nothing but the most like um I respect so much the craftsmanship of building a beautiful coil machine but once I jumped into the rotary and then to the pen style machine I was like it's like you're you're guys blasting through these tattoo sessions you're doing like seven hours and then you're just like your clients chill they're like taking a nap and you're like yeah I'm just going to like have a little snack and then I'll get back to it I mean it it's mind-blowing like I don't know how for so many years I ever did it differently yeah well it's these days I've see some of my old school tattoo friends that literally used coils for 20 plus years they're like yeah no

once I tried that stupid pen machine I'm I'm not doing it anymore damn okay you made the move that's pretty crazy that's how I felt about when my me well not my mentor but like my business partner he's I feel like he's my mentor chance cuz he's older than me and he's well seasoned but like when he finally switched to a pen I was like dang I'm legitimate now because he a we can all do this together yeah well I want to talk about chance but before we get into that like um let's kind of like pop back into like where you you started tattooing so what did you do like after you got signed off for your apprenticeship and you're like so you're just set free you don't like or did did you try to work at that shop or was that a thing or no like so much happened oh my gosh so every this is why I like to get into people's stories because we all really have these most super unique stories I know I know it's really fun and I wouldn't like I wouldn't trade any of it right so I got my tattoo license moved to Alaska cuz my husband came back transaction was complete transaction was complete H's home let's go back to Alaska we had base housing with and so I was like I'm going to set up my tattoo shop in the basement that's what I was going to say like you got to built-in clientele yes yeah so so which was totally illegal you can't do that on base like there's it's not okay so anyway I had like but we had a huge a huge basement it was amazing yeah and so I had like half our basement was set up

as like a little tattoo shop and you know obviously like I had very clean practices right so I'm like treating it like it's a you know super clean my professional environment I had all disposable everything like you know I it was super legitimate so no one had to worry about like anything when they were there but still it was basement tattooing my table was like a fold out like kitchen picnic table I did my husband's tattoo like he was laying on he's only been tattooed by me once okay and he was laying on a plastic fold out kitchen table and it's a big tattoo on his ribs and it was like it was it was a Google image Samurai we were like straight up looking online he's like I want a Samurai and so we're just looking at the B the coolest Samurai and then come to find out years later we meet someone who has the exact same tattoo anyway so was pretty like messed up but anyway okay yeah so basement Tattooing in Alaska and then someone told on me right so like I had to get out of there yeah yeah do you remember that guy babe I forgot his name um so yeah so ended up like trying to get a shop or trying to work at a shop in Alaska in Fairbanks cuz I was just outside of Fairbanks Alaska um and I was rejected the guy was like you have to redo an entire apprenticeship with me if you want to work here he wasn't going to let me like come in even though I was licensed he didn't he was he didn't like my tattoo work you know um and so he I think that as a business owner he wanted to um

like retrain me or whatever and so but he was kind of a dick about it but I mean who wasn't at that point in time so it was like whatever some good friends of ours um really really dear friends of ours had a house they lived off BAS and they had a spare room oh okay set up shop again sounds pretty punk rock to me you say didn't come around that right right yeah so um so I ended up setting up shop in there and it was like it was really really cool like situation I really will forever I will forever be grateful I oh that's cool I got so much business like I started making money for myself and my family and like that just helped us like in every like after we moved from Alaska to North Dakota um you know we had started building up a savings and stuff yet I I started tattooing on base again okay so we went from Al sorry just like all over the place here we were we finished our time in Alaska we got stationed in North Dakota and we got a house well first we lived in an apartment and it was small as but it was two bedrooms and so one of the bedrooms we set up as a tattoo shop and so our apartment on Town and then we finally got a house on base so I set up a tattoo shop on base and then I think someone found out about that again and I got told on again and so all this really look illegal in the beginning of my career am I am I supposed to be sharing any of this it's even better yeah I've tattoed out of my house I've definitely G through that yeah so anyway I did end up opening my

very first private studio in North Dakota my not North Dakota okay so you guys got transferred out there right North Dakota yeah and so I opened a little private Studio there right prior to that I did try work in a tattoo shop in that town for about a week and I had to Jet out because it was toxic as really nasty like just like answering the phone with a dirty glove like every day that I showed up to work I grabbed the mat aside and the wipes and I wiped down the entire freaking shop and I was like I can't do this like I have I had a daughter you know she's brand new baby my husband myself like I can't can't be living in working in this environment like you know that's dangerous so I I did I found I found a an open space that I could rent and I had a little private Studio yeah well you brought up you had a new baby too so I kind of want to hear about that cuz that's like I don't I had my kids later on in life and I was in a fortunate position where I already had a shop and I was able to like manipulate my schedule a little better to allow them into my life and um yeah let's go over that like what's it like being a first of all how like were you tattooing all while you're were pregnant like I was yeah like did you work like all the way up too and I was I got pregnant in my first year of tattooing so like I knew nothing and I was going to have to already like rearrange my whole life um because I had this sweet baby coming and um so I was super pregnant I I got pregnant in

Alaska and um she was born in Alaska and I was tattooing up until like couple days essentially before I gave birth probably my belly was super huge I'm trying to imagine like remember I was doing my belly was so big and I was tattooing this girl on the ribs and my belly was touching her back and the baby kicked and she was like did your baby just kick and I was like yeah she's like that was the coolest thing ever and I'll yeah I would think yeah or she probably won't either I mean not too many people get to like you know you don't let just strangers touch your belly one they're kicking and stuff yeah but I was like I'm sorry it's in the way but it was yeah I was like you're like using your belly as armrest or something it's like built-in tattoo Furniture super soft yeah so that was really cool so when we moved to North Dakota we had a brand new like we moved she was like a month old two months old maybe yeah and we moved to North Dakota so that whole situation was a hot mess I don't it has nothing to do with tattooing but trying to get settled there and get a place to live we were living in and out of like this hotel and like kind of this friend's house that was really terrible and like we had a brand new baby and then it was crazy trying to get settled there yeah um we finally did but um but yeah I was a brand new mom and a brand new tattooer and it you know trying to balance that and try to grow my craft and also like learn how to not people up you know what I mean yeah

tattoo wise yeah and you're were still trying to translate your own illustration style into tattooing which is a challenge and at least all those people are scattered across the country yeah and they're still honestly oh mine still live in the valley or whatever and I'm like oh God that's the worst these people though like they still like message me and like you tattooed me in North Dakota and it's my dream to get tattooed by you again it's still my favorite tattoo and I'm like are you freaking kidding me like that's a beautiful thing about loyalty you know the reason those people I guarantee love those tattoos is because I the experience I gave them it's not the tattoo it's because I like showed them that I cared about them and what I was doing and I was enthusiastic about it because like my design work and tattoo execution was like you know we were I was a beginner so it's like those people are loyal to me I think because of the overall experience dude I always try to teach anybody that's in my shop or anybody around me really like just don't dude don't be a dick man this is like a a pleasant this should be a pleasant experience like yes and like you said they're going to be just as they're going to be more likely to enjoy that tattoo as long as you're sitting there trying your hardest and they know that and feel it they're going to be stoked like nine out of 10 times they're going to Forever going to come back to you I've had people I'd be like I'm nervous to do this you

know and they'd be like you can do it sure yeah you're like pulling own cheerer they're cheerleading you on and you're just like oh we did it and they're like yes that's like my favorite of I I have like yeah very very clear memories of that too and that's what's kind of fun too about you know pushing yourself as an artist is like if you don't push yourself you're never going to have those like memorable experiences and those transcending kind of like I don't know just the the ones that just push you up to the next Next Level it's like super fun that's rad dang you up in North Carol not Dakota and then you came back to Oregon or whatever mean so yeah so it was Alaska North Dakota then we got stationed in Vegas for the first time yeah and that's where I opened another private Studio I was about four years into tattooing at that point and I opened a private studio in Summerland which you can't have a tattoo shop in Summerland yeah yeah yeah so um I had to go through all this bureaucratic crap um I had to get like I I wrote to my city councilman Bob beus at the time I was like Hey dang what's up Bob so Summerland proper like which is a master plan Community um bougie yeah and I'll remember Bob Beers props to him um just for this one situation uh I messaged him I said hey I'm a military spouse I've been paying rent on this space the guy who led me to this space the realtor guy he didn't apparently know anything about tattoo zoing cuz I already signed my lease done all my stuff

like paid all this money and then found out after I'd already started tattooing that I wasn't supposed to be there I was brand new to the area so I didn't know yeah yeah yeah and so I just got a notice from the like someone from the city came and was like you're not supposed to be tattooing here and I was like what and so I wrote Bob and I was like um hey you know P the military spouse card right and I'm just like hey we don't know I'm not from here like I want a motion for approval so that I can be here I'm tucked away I was inside solo Salon I wasn't like a storefront property but they still had a problem with that and so he messaged me back and was like okay we're going to put in a motion for approval for you so I we just had to like wait four months cuz they only did it like every quarter or something and so um went in I had to wait I was paying rent damn in freaking Summerland at that time it was like 1,300 a month for 100 square fet of space my my thing was only 100 square F feet oh I have no which is the minimum from the health department anyway yeah and uh yeah pretty much went broke trying to keep that place open and then um it got approved so then I just started tattooing right away and I had like people on a wait list at that point cuz I had that was back when Yelp was like actually legitimate and people found me on Yelp my website everything so people were like waiting for me to start working so I did have that going for me which was such a blessing and um yeah

and then I I worked there for like 4 years and then that's how we can like segue into CH chance yeah yeah yeah and you yeah so you cuz was chance your first friend in tattooing yes okay my first yeah so he is your Guiding Light and your Mentor too like you know not that you need it but it damn feels great to have somebody that like especially as kind as chance like tented so you guys met and then came together like how did you guys meet I went to a birthday party and I met his sister that was there there and she had was showing off her fresh tattoo and I was like some really nice nine work I was like I'm kind of new to town I have this tattoo that I really want fixed up she was like oh this is by my brother and I was like would he be okay with tattooing another tattooer and she looked at me like I was crazy like well yeah of course like he's so great and I was like really and so she gave me his info and I messaged him and he was like oh yeah I'd love to and it it was like later probably at least a year or two down the road before I ever got tattooed by him but I did and you know realized you know he's so cool he was at another tattoo shop red-handed at the time and yeah it was awesome he made me feel super comfortable he fixed up um my neck tattoo and uh we just kind of had stayed in touch and then I had him after I had my son later on I started getting a sleeve by him and that's where we got closer because we had a lot more like sessions together and stuff so we just kind

of developed a bit of a friendship there and then kind of fast forward just some drama went down with the shop that he was at and yeah I remember that yeah yeah and they were all locked out y right so he called me just to vent he was like and I remember like when he called me in a vent I was like he called me like I was like honored that he wanted to talk to me about something like that I was like who even am I like I don't I'm not anyone cool or awesome and you knows he knows everyone in town right and he called me at a vet and I was like bro I was like just come work in my studio like I worked during the day and I knew that he worked afternoons so I was like well I only I don't work late into the night you will work later in the day I'm like when I get off just come use my space like for as long as you want whenever you want it's no big deal and he was like are you serious and um it was just I guess he wasn't expecting that so ended up being that like he was using my space his Apprentice at the time was there and then I think we offered it to Ryan also cuz there was like multiple of them obviously could and so I was like yeah whoever and like he was using my machines and stuff till he could get his stuff yeah all of his stuff was locked inside the shop so I just let him use everything and then that's how we like developed our friendship and like even further and I remember at one time like we got like yelled at because our shop just started spilling out into the hallway oh

cuz we had like apprentices so like I remember Dalia like I don't know Dalia and Bri like my Apprentice at the time were like doing paintings like on the floor in the hallway at Solo Salon in freaking Summerland which is like I mean if you Summerland people and they're probably having a hissy fit about it but um but anyway yeah they were like yeah you can't do that so we had to like contain into this 100 square foot space but so then from there I'm assuming you you found that larger space there was already a tattoo shop for years so you kind of lucked out there you got got to go in and where you're at now still to this day clean it up yeah and you just rest dialed it again which it looks fantastic by the way thank you I was told you had a lot of input on that and it looks really nice yeah so we just like you know there was a whole shop of like really good people that didn't have like a place to go that they were all together they were like a tattoo family you know so um chance and I decided that we just wanted to open up a tattoo shop together and he knew going into our um Business Partnership that I might not be there cuz we knew that our orders were coming up and that we likely wouldn't be able to be in Vegas anymore so ended up that we opened up the shop and within 6 months I had to move away and he never wanted to own a shop and there he was alone owning the shop without me like on paper we owned it together but I was gone and he was running that place for like four

years by himself yeah okay cuz that that's kind of what I I remember going in there and saying hi and stuff and then I never saw you but I heard about you like like I was just this weird you had a booth but there was like you were never there I heard you had some funny uh like so when you guys named it it's itive tattoo right yeah we really wanted to call it um friendship tattoo and our logo is going to be like a handshake and no one liked that no one did okay so but it works out great like it's Collective tattoo pror and it's really nice because we are a collective of artists like every single one of us has a different style so that's something that I really love is like when people ask me you know like oh you own a shop like what kind of styles do you do and I'm like everything you know and I tell them what I do what chance does and what all of our artists do and I'm like there's really an artist there for anyone who wants any type of tattoo so I really do like that and yeah so I think Collective is really is is it collected with a K he tell you about that so me and Bri were like with him so bad one day and I remember the client that I had too and we were all just hysterical chance isn't at the shop cuz we were taking turns this was in our small green room I call it the green room cuz I painted the walls green oh so we always call it the Green Room that's the Summerland shop and um we were like okay we have the name but we got to with him about the uh the spelling and we

were just like I don't know we did all these different like we did Collective like with the c or with the K in the middle and in the K oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah oh my gosh yeah it was oh no it was pretty ridiculous and he was like trying to be really really nice about it he was like well of course you know he's like maybe we can just talk about this later and like so and then dude like literally I don't know a few months ago there is a collective tattoo paror with a K that exists there you go shout out to Collective tattoo part yeah I I also talked to chance too he was telling me some kind of crazy story this is like every tattooers I think one of their worst nightmares is the random snapping of your wrist what did that happen like you broke your wrist and had to get surgery or something like it was we're really going to talk about that again I don't know I just heard it was I was like that's wild like that's all of us never obviously want to hurt our nice I have a nice little scar right there and you got surgery in Switzerland in Switzerland it was a emergency surgery in the middle of vacation so we went there with some friends to go snowboarding um the Swiss out snowboarding dude like everybody's broken their I know it was ridiculous so I'm like epic trick planned out is like we spent about a week in Zurich and then we made our way over to zermat which is like freaking like if you looked up Christmas online I mean this it's the most beautiful it's like this tiny village

in like the middle of the Alps right dang it was so amazing and so yeah we went snowboarding there and it was like the first of like three days that we were going to be snowboarding and it was like the third run of the day and I snapped my wrist yeah and so it ended up like you knew exactly what happened no I was convinced that it was sprained so my wrist is like this right and it's like I felt it balloon up it was like this big and I'm just like oh it's just bent like this because it's swollen and then we're going to go back to the um Chalet and we're going to straighten it out I was thinking we'll just wrap it and straighten it back out and it'll be fine out and my husband's like no that's not good so we had to walk down like to the next lift and then start making our way down the mountain cuz it's huge we weren't all the way down we were just like I don't know halfway down or something it's hard hard to kind of remember but like we had to walk and like take these lifts down and then we had to go to a nearby Village like there's no cars in zermat or anything so we had to take like an emergency medical taxi to get to the nearest hospital like a village or two away or something like that called V place called Vis but funny thing was also before that we we went and had like an emergency X-ray done and um and it come to find out it's broken in multiple places whatever but like I was like it's not like I straight told the lady I was like I'm being real stubborn about this I was

in my head like this is like when you're going through shock this is what happens like I was literally in my mind I was like Switzerland is conspiring against me to take my money and they're forcing me to have surgery so they can take my money me a dumb American I'm like they have enough money like they're not needing my dumb American Dollar and so I don't know why but anyway so we go and we have the emergency surgery and um they were they treated me like royalty cuz I was from Vegas like they were like so excited and there was just a line of us in the emergency room all there for the same surgery so oh cuz it's like a key snowbo right so like everyone's bones are broken from zont from snowboarding or or whatever so yeah that was that situation but like it was an In-N-Out surgery so we did the surgery like at midnight and then I slept a little while and when I woke up they had like like multiple fresh bread and like fresh butter like waiting for me and like a little espresso oh my God and it was like I was like this is amazing yeah if you had to get that surgery done anywhere that's the it was going to be there and then we just like then we just took a train back to zerat and then we just finished vacation holy damn yeah I mean were you freaking out though about not being able to tattoo that's like I was really I quit snowboarding because of that when I opened up my shop in like 2003 I was like I'm good I got a good good concussion and yeah couldn't remember my like

address when I was trying to check into my hotel I know I knew like half my name and I was like all right I'm done with this oh my gosh that's super scary that's way scarier than like breaking your wrist but so I stopped and then yeah that's the last time I went snowboarding gosh it's probably really good probably a really good idea yeah and so then instead I'm like skateboarding now yeah and I'm just like well I just got to be real careful with that I was at a kids's birthday party yesterday and they put the kid and my kids were like dude if you just flip it over and you could land on top of it and I started to do it and then I was like what the am I doing this is like a total dad move that I'm just going to eat in front of everybody break

my elbow be real bummed out yeah whatever yeah we don't to do that yeah I was pretty nervous but the doctors honestly the doctors in Switzerland were so amazing like they were like this happens all the time you're going to be perfectly fine and they had really good instruction on you know post care of like you know movements that I needed to do with my wrist I actually wasn't in like a set cast or anything like it was like a removable one cuz I have a metal plate in there okay and um so like I would have to take my cast off throughout the day and like do these special movements and then um when I got home I started painting like immediately and I think that that alone was like the best physical therapy I could have done was like these movements and I actually sold a lot of paintings like that to help with me not working I was really blessed and fortunate that people I was like this is how I have to make money right now like anyone who wants a painting I'm doing commissions and I sold a bunch and it was like really super special good um but I was going to traditional physical therapy I was really on top of that and I know some people are bad about that but I was like I'm working again and I think it I was like out for four weeks and I was back tattooing oh it was insane like I way yeah it was like 4 to 6 weeks and cuz I remember I had a timeline like I remember when I had the surgery and I remember like I canel all these appointments and then I was like this day I'm going

to work I think it was like April 21st or some random days I was like yeah cuz March was had surgery and then I was like okay April 21st be yeah okay yeah and so and I remember who like my first appointments were going to be some really good clients of mine from Utah was the whole their whole family like gets tattooed by me oh cool and they were all coming out for the week and so I knew that like they were going to be really understanding if I wasn't up my full game yeah okay yeah so anyway it ended up being really good and I'm back to normal let's jump back into also your style and like uh cuz I feel like you really did develop this beautiful style that's very unique and I don't know like at what point in time were you kind of like Yep this is what I want to do right I mean you from what I see is a lot of black work dot work very flowy and beautiful I love flow so I'm like very adamant about yeah composition start yeah so was there like a day where you were like I don't know were you just drawing and then this clicked and you this is what you wanted to do and stuck with that right yeah so I knew I really wanted to get into composition is everything right I feel like I did a lot of tattoos I thought were going to be good in my past but compositionally they were just like off you know a little bit and so I I learned over the years that like to have a good tattoo composition is key and it needs to fit each person individually like in a very specific way so I knew that

freehanding was going to be really important as well I was really into doodling and stuff like in school before College like I've never been this really incredible like fine artist I've always been doodling or abstract right so going into kind of like the floral like ornamental stuff was really helpful for me because my brain understood that and I knew that I could build flowers and ornamental designs based upon what the physique of my client is if that makes sense right yeah I've always found that's the best way to do it dra and drawing on exactly so I would um I just kind of started leaning in that direction now I didn't get to start on huge pieces right away you know when you're dabbing into a new style people aren't going to be like yeah I want a leg sleeve so it kind of this transition in my Artistry happened at a really good time so it went right from when I moved to from Vegas to Oregon I was in a financial position that I was like if I didn't work every day that we were going to be okay so I was able to do this financially I was able to say no to a lot of things if I needed to because I wanted to focus on this specific style that's a tough part in anyone's career it is it's really really tough and I was really fortunate to have the financial freedom to be able to be in this space so I I had just moved to clth I had opened up another private Studio this was not in my house really adorable Bayfront downtown clal Oregon it was like in 100-year-old building it was

really really adorable and when emails started coming in you know I just said like hey I'm really uh focused on this type of design so if I would love to do your tattoo but it's really important to me that I put my spin on it and I kind of lean in this direction and it would either be a yes or a no but honestly like clam Falls is a really small town and people were just stoked that someone who cared about what they were doing was their tattooing yeah and a kind approachable human a kind approachable human and and a female yeah because there wasn't any really females there and so pretty much I honestly don't even remember anyone saying like no like I don't even really recollect that so much people were really open to it so slowly but surely with each tattoo I was able to kind of start getting into the style that I am today and you know my Styles evolved a little bit sometimes it's a little more edgy graphic sometimes a little bit more like feminine yeah um and like filigree is and then right now I'm really into just kind of doing some weird stuff like bringing back like my old art and I've been doing a lot of fun sketches and things like that to try to like oh yeah you to show me some more stuff yeah I I feel like I have like I work so long on getting like the foundations of a good tattoo going that now like it's weird once what I was trying to do in my apprenticeship right this funky kind of weird stuff was hard to execute because I didn't have all the foundations right now

that I do it's feel like pull from the old me and like my old art that I used to do like in college like prior to tattooing and I can start putting that into tattoos now in a solid way so that's kind of like this direction that I'm going right now and it's kind of fun fun and fresh and new yeah yeah that's what you always need those those points in time in your life and career but I think that like when you're an artist and you really want to make that shift you need to do it with confidence and patience and patience yeah and and I really think that anyone can do this if I could do it then anyone can do it it's really just a matter of like setting boundaries and then communication and and good communication and like it's so important you know this is a whole thing like I'm literally like writing a seminar on this to be honest I know I'm excited I want to talk about this about establishing trust with your clients because it's so huge if you want to further your career as a tattoo artist you need to trust that your client trusts you because you can not do your best work when you're walking on eggshells around your client or drawing on eggshells around your client you're going to be nervous you're going to be questioning everything that you do when your client has that full trust in you then you can blossom as an artist so this communication via consultation or conversation or whatever needs to happen that has to happen in depth the Stepping Stones to building the the

confidence yes in you your and there's key language key phrases and key ways you can start to build that trust with with your client it is not difficult you just have to put yourself out there and be confident enough in yourself to be able to like get that new person or that new client to be able to trust you yeah yeah oh I want to hear more about the seminars because like I was uh fortunate enough to be a part of your metanoia tattoo Gathering um the first one just passed right super exciting it was amazing you did such a good job with everything I was I was so impressed I really was like I I sat there and I was just felt like I was like a sponge I was just like it I was really inspired everybody there had such a great positive attitude too and I mean it was a room full of just like glowing everybody was so cool it was so cool and you did such a fantastic job you hold yourself so well you got up there the seminars were really cool they were very informative Laura did such a good job Lauren Lauren Gregory okay I said yeah I said Laura hers was so great I missed yours unfortunately so I'm looking forward to hopefully catching it next year if I can I think we're going to um that I feel like my seminar the point of my seminar was to kind of set the tone for what metanoia tattoo Gathering is and it's about you know appreciating where you are as an individual and not like looking to to anyone else and what they're doing like you are on your own path and you are on your own

journey and you can't be comparing yourselves because you don't know what this person is what their life is like outside of tattooing and how it differs from yours yours so uh mine was uh establishing balance the key to a sustainable tattoo career and it was a lot like centered around you know making sure that you unhurry your life yeah and uh like being okay with rest basically all that to say um I will be kind of revising the seminar that I did or at least this is my plan I'm still like yeah in this transition of planning for everything you learned from the first one and yes yes and and so I want I want people to people who attended last year to still be able to resonate with everything that we do for 2025 but I kind of want to like revise and revamp and rework the seminar that I did so that new people coming in can also have the opportunity to hear it because it really sets the tone for metanoia metanoia is transformation transformation of mind and heart is really like what metanoia means and that's what I want people coming in to understand is like you don't have to stay where you're at in your mindset where you feel like you're constantly comparing constantly competing you're you're striving you're working you're grinding to get to the next level and like showcase what you can do like that that's we have this one freaking life that we get to live and we need to appreciate all of the Beautiful Moments in between point a and point B you know yeah one thing that I've

just noticed so much for myself too that I had to like unlearn and undo about my life was like you know with being in the military a lot have to do with it was about like okay open the shop but in two years I got to open another one so I can't enjoy what I'm doing right here so I'm like reaching for the next thing and what's the plan and how is this and then it's hard to like really truly value what you're living in right now and that's what I really want to Champion people in is to have high regard and high value for where they're at In This Moment regardless of if they're at where they want to be in the future like when you have this peace and love and appreciation for your life where it is right now it makes that process so much more beautiful to get to where you need to go because you're enjoying everything about getting there you know what I mean and metanoia I think it it is just bringing together a community of women and my biggest heart mothers in tattooing to just like lean on each other and just be there for one another share their story so you feel less alone and just show each other love and support yeah help each other navigate through it all yeah you know inside and outside the tattoo shop exactly like it and it was seriously like the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced there's nothing like this in tattooing no I know that's why that's why I love it and I I mean I we connected before this even came about you know and I I felt like that was just a

person that I wanted to like learn from too you know and I I really enjoy surrounding myself with people that uh inspire me and you fall in that category so thank you it was cool to see your project come together not not only come together like just I mean even every aspect of it coming together like The Branding and everything the presentation is like you know that's where I guess you're advertising kind of maybe like passions from in the past all come together yeah and uh I'm a sucker for that so I love it all I think you did a fantastic job it was really cool so I'm looking forward to seeing where you take this and where it grows and goes and I think it'll be really rad and I like I don't know one thing I noticed is I was so inedibly impressed with how people came from all over the country you know this was this the world I had a Canadian and I had a beautiful girl from Finland fin yeah yeah I spoke with her like what the heck that's flattering I remember like the payment coming through and I was like holy like what's happening but east coast California Arizona like the only people that were from Vegas were like my friend yeah and then so cool crazy yeah and I mean dude just like it just spread like with metanoia it's so much more than like I'm not for I'm not trying to like push this out there into the world like I'm a big believer and like this metanoia is going to reach the people that need it yeah you know cuz not everyone's going to be on board with something like

this it's a lot of love it's laugh we cry we eat together we're sharing stories this is not like some hardcore yeah like tattoo convention situation you know this is like coming together of it it's a it's a support system metanoia is different than even what I thought it was going to be like it's so much more of me just facilitating a a community of women to come together and like uh support one another and like I could probably like dip out and it could still Thrive you know what I mean do I want to dip out totally no way but like I mean if they're as passionate as they are about it like I think they could keep it going if they wanted to you know like it's not I don't know just it was a GL it was a I don't know I feel like as artists we're

real sensitive to the energy that's around us and I've always very much so try to gravitate towards positive healthy energy yeah and um which I don't know I kind of go so many different directions but when I was in there I felt it like I remember it was remember I got up in front of everybody and I was kind of nervous like talking in front of everybody and then I had that little incident with my wife in a car accident I was super worried but I found myself just like wanting to hug everybody I like teared up in front of watch it it was cool it was great it was cool it was beautiful and like to me that just said so much about the energy in the space that like everyone was welcome to like be their full authentic self in that environment because no one was worried about what anyone was going to think yeah and like that I think that's why a lot of us could break down and cry is like we've all like held so much of this like hurt and pain and insecurity in our souls for so long and then we finally were in the space to like welcome just letting that out like there were so many like Divine things that happened while we were there like connections with with women that happened that were like it's very personal so I'm not going to share other people's story but there was things that happened that I was like are you kidding me like they just met just now and like it was just really intense and like I was so appreciative of like the positive feedback that I got from everybody like

people noticed all of the very small details of the event that I was really OCD about but for good reason like I was really obsessed with the food that was going to be there I was like this needs to be that by the way yeah it was good F was like over there eating double seconds I'm like where's it going it was so good but like I wanted these women to feel like almost a retreat like experience and that they were being pampered and really well taken care of and like food is a huge part of community so that was a really big deal to me was to have like really good Gourmet like healthy nutritious foods and um lots of snacks and things like that too to make sure that everyone you know was taken care of while they were there and like the detail of

like the order of the seminars was very strategic and curating an album essentially yeah the the whole curation of the entire event like I was very strategic and like I spent an entire year like I was hardly tattooing like I was like tattooing like once a week because I was just so focused on this and um you know it was a was like a big sacrifice for our family to do it but it was worth it because like when it came down to the event like people noticed that stuff and not that I was like looking for a specific recognition in that but like there was a reason for my madness you know what I mean yeah I just feels good like you you put those endless sleepless nights and stuff into things and if someone just brings one person has just has to be like the coffee mugs are beautiful you're like oh my God my sister made these and I we chose the dyes and all you know like I know you put a lot of work into and it showed it was cool yeah it was just really important that everyone knew all of the care and concern that went into it because they're the reasons that I did this they their lives were the reason that it was so important that everything was just as it was supposed to be but then at the same time not to keep dragging it out I knew there was going to be this overall Grace for anything that could go arry yeah because I knew the women coming to the event were going to know and understand every all the effort that was put into it that if something did go wrong yeah it's I'm constantly

trying to learn how to teach myself that too like don't be so freaking hard on yourself man like you you you can only try and to execute Perfection so much and Perfection always isn't what you really want you know because you'll have these Fun accidents in the event or whatever that end up teaching you something like oh I can apply this for next year's EV yeah um there was so many great questions everybody was asking was I was just really impressed I was back there taking notes on my phone it was cool so I'm looking forward to like I said seeing where you take it like what you well we're doing three days in 2025 that was like the only like change like feedback change really like that I received was like we need more time yeah you know and uh so quick so yeah so we're going to do three days for 2025 and I'm really excited about that sweet yeah awesome yeah well what else is going on in your life you have a lot going on so running a shop with chance you've got a great team over there everybody's super talented and I've been personally tattooed in there multiple times I know I know yeah and then like what else you got going on you're obviously a mama I am a mom you have one or two kids two two okay two my son is his name is Kaa and he's nine and my daughter is 13 okay her name is Ka okay yeah so I have a teenager damn mine just turned three this weekend and she seems like teenager already right yeah yeah it's crazy to have a teenager cuz when you're a mom you're still just

always going to think that your child is 3 years old yeah like when I go to work I'm thinking of my kids as three-year-olds and then I come home and I'm like yeah like why are you a teenager and a 9-year-old it's so crazy it is it's it's a trip it is a trip and it's like it goes so fast and like not to like reiterate but a a huge reason I have heart for moms is like you know as a woman in the industry trying to make a name for yourself but then you have this calling to be a mom as well you're trying to navigate and balance like growing your craft as a tattoo an artist but then you're like I want to invest all I can into my children because that I won't get back you know and so I'm a big advocate of like just chill yeah like do your tattoos do your thing of course like make progress but Focus your energy on your kids when they're little because that time is so fleeting and don't let anyone tell you that that's not okay you know what I mean that's why that's where the comparison kills comes in where you like you can't compare yourself to the people around you when you have kids like your energy is on them and like enjoying them like truly enjoying the fact that you have these little humans that you brought into the world and um yeah so so that's what I've constantly had to tell myself too you know like my kids are getting a little older now so I'm starting to have more freedom which is it's been really fun like going to more concerts with my husband more impromptu date nights

and like little trips and stuff like that and it's it's been really special and awesome I feel like I'm getting to be a kid again but I also like don't have a lot of regrets cuz I remember I like really invested as much as I could into my kids when they were little and I'm obviously still investing into them but it's like a different kind of investment now I always like to hear it uh any type of little tidbits or advice or knowledge that you could um offer to young women getting into tattooing and or obviously experience I mean sounds like we we' we've given already a lot of like great knowledge oh gosh I don't know I I don't know like young you know young tattooers right now is such a different world so I don't know I I think like you said

kind of I don't know you have anything to go about like yeah you know I mean I think there's so much and and anything that I would say as like wisdom or advice comes from my own experience right and you know I've been tattooing since 2009 I've gone through a lot of like ups and downs and that and like I've had times where I'm like crying in bed at night like before I go to sleep like that was such a terrible tattoo I that person up so bad I'm like so embarrassed but then you like you keep going and you learn from that and like and that would be any advice I would give is just to keep going but like with that just stay freaking humble like don't be a jerk don't be an ass like don't care about social media in the way that people are or the way that social media is telling you to care about it you know like I think that has done a lot of damage to people and their um feelings about who they are and and their Artistry is through comparison of themselves toward other people on social media so I think that that is like a really huge thing that you should just completely omit from your life yeah um and whatever you need to do to do that do it so that would be a huge thing that I would say and that's from my own experience I got caught up in trying to like be like okay well I guess I need to do this now viral or do whatever I have to do oh it's for all in the name of my business you know and then at the same time sacrificing my mental health because of it it was so bad that I like

cancelled my Instagram that I've had for whatever 10 years and I have a new one yeah I have I went from you know whatever 20 something thousand followers and now I'm like you know a thousand or whatever just cuz people like came over but I'm like that makes me so happy because these people actually like I've connected with them or tattooed them or whatever and it's like I just symbolically wanted to leave my past situation behind and it wasn't always like that there was just a weird period that like anyway I'm not saying like other people need to do that that was just a personal thing that I wanted to do but I like that you weren't afraid to do it I wasn't afraid to do everybody's afraid to let go I mean I have like a hoarder mentality on a

lot of things try to go through my Instagram and like should I delete this should I not you know I'm like what the does it matter I don't even post on there yeah it it just doesn't matter because that's not your that's not your life that's not where your value is you know and so I think that you should just get rid of that I think like my word of advice right now is like you know with that and with with the anger that I've had toward um social media is like I'm just going back old school like I you know I went I was like so crazy busy because of social media for so long that I let my website expire I wasn't like doing any of this stuff like I refused to hand out business cards or any promotion cuz I was so busy now you know with Everything's changed I'm like I'm so glad it's changed because I'm like building a fresh website for for people to actually connect with me and and get to know the real me on there and like share my story and and share photos of my family and I'm making business cards and flyers leave at the C shop straight up like I'm going to make like pack we like to eat out a lot and go to concerts and stuff I'm making little packets and I'm take little packets with me everywhere I go and I'm going to leave that everywhere I go and I'm really excited about like like taking it back old school like what it once was um and and so I would say you know have a little more old school mentality keep it local kind of you know approach to things keep it local

because you know you still have to do that like you have to people aren't going to always know you from around the world like that's and your tattoo needs to look good in real life not just on Instagram yes exactly it needs to look good in real life at the coffee shop when they're sharing who did your tattoo type stuff if it's not standing out it ain't going to it no one's going to talk about it exactly and like my word of mouth people are like my favorite ones they're like oh I heard about you through this person that I met at some random place like I have a client right now like she's a older like retired lady and she met one of my super young clients like at a bar and she was like who did your tattoo I need that and so I have like new client who I'm she has a sleeve but I'm reworking the entire thing and I'm like that was an in-person connection that she made and that I'm like I love that and it's super exciting and I'm really getting into wanting to dive into tattoo history more I think that's kind of where a lot of my I want to like have a lot more knowledge about tattooing where it came from um the different styles why they exist like I want to really focus on that and so I would really recommend that other people get into that too and these are things that I feel like chance has held in really high regard and I have really wanted to like kind of get on that level as well I'm guilty of notd like especially in my younger years of tattooing just being like I that's cool

man but like I just want to like do my graffiti and draw or whatever I you know just get you on certain styles of tattooing and now I'm like oh tribal let's do a tribal tattoo you know what I mean now I'm like it's all nostalgic now nostalgic and you see that there is this art form to each and every genre and there's people that just crush it and you know yeah it's cool yeah I think just overall just appreciation for wherever you are not wherever you are at now having a humble heart and those like appreciation and humility I think those are the key elements that are going to like be the driving force of a successful tattoo career because those key elements are going to like translate in every aspect of your life like whether totally I think

they only attract people like you don't need to tell anybody that you're anything they should know just by seeing your actions and whatever you're creating or everything so I agree that's fun totally agree well I just want to say thank you so much for coming this was really fun I knew this would flow good CU you and I have always like had great conversations um we hope to have some like bigger maybe like round taes in the future so I would love to have you back and specifically talk about tattoo history or whatever else we want to talk about learning chance gave me a big book and I'm reading through it okay cool yeah I have some fun projects I'm working on on the back end specific to tattoo history so that's awesome but uh let's see how does everybody reach you nowadays I mean oh okay um email is great I'm in process of working on my website so it's not quite live yet but it might be by the time this comes out yep if you want to reach me um on Instagram it's m to theb tattoos and um my email is Mary bethcar tatos gmail.com see importance of mailing list too yeah yeah that's I'm definitely going to have that integrated on my website is like mailing list so that way like I don't have to worry about Instagram to get yeah stuff out there to the world like it goes straight to the people who actually care about it because they signed up for the mailing list yep um but yeah just email and and Instagram and I have your Collective tattoo Collective tattoo is is our shop so feel

free to stop by anytime yeah here in Las Vegas Nevada and we've got the metanoia tattoo Gathering coming up in 2025 yes yep yep late February uh 2025 um the website please go to it fill out the form um the like the contact form if you want any information on it whatsoever and we will get back to you it's going to be a blast and then like our Instagram is you know we have tons of videos and um explanations of like what what we've done what it actually is but the website is is a more Clear Vision you know and we have we have have some like videos on there as well that like can really explain you know what what we've got going and fantastic videos too yeah well thank you very much I greatly appreciate it thanks so much man means a lot to me that you took the time out of your day to be here so it's it's I'm so grateful that this was my first podcast in the whole yeah I haven't I haven't done one myself like gone on someone else's but that's I got invited the other day to be on a couple so I was like that's exciting so conat but uh cool well thank you so much and have a good one guys tune in and don't forget to check out everything Mary Beth is doing it's amazing have a good day

I love that I have the experience now and then you know now I'm working for you and don't try to manage anything but because I got to see that other side of the business I see things differently now what's happening my name is Austin Spencer this is support your local tat thanks so much for hanging I'm super excited about to this this today like this this is one of my dudes this is one of them uh one of our fantastic local tattooers an amazing artist very kind kind individual overall so anyway so uh you know like a little project we got going on here support your local tattoos we just kind of want to get out there and get to know some of our people in our community some underdogs some big dogs all the dogs matter in this party all the dogs all the dogs so anyway um let's get into it man this is Joshua suck Cliffe and he has some fun interesting stories I think about getting into his apprenticeship on a TV show this is some wild so hang in there with us and uh let's hear some weird so um so what's happening dude I just kind of you know like we did we like to do is just kind of get a feel for your origin story get a feel for where and how you hell how the hell you got into this industry yeah it's uh definitely definitely interesting yeah at least for me yeah you did uh you did your apprenticeship on a TV show yeah which in a casino in Las Nevada which is a whole lot of Firsts I don't had anybody ever done their apprenticeship on a TV show uh not that I mean not that I don't

think so cuz we had the first TV show or it was at the same time as Miami's Inc yeah you know so maybe there was uh yo was it yo Yoji y yaji not Ami Ami's the uh the tattoo I can't remember the apprentice's name anyways um I was doing an apprenticeship uh in a casino and they had a TV show on A&E and I mean I was 19 at the time and there's no other TV shows so I did you know fast forward it by 20 years you look back and there was no one else doing that you know um let alone have a tattoo shop in a casino which that was also a first yeah so uh luckily I think I was 19 and was oblivious to the world and the industry and didn't have to overthink anything it was just sitting in the pocket and enjoying the moment and can kind of focus on my apprenticeship yeah a lot of distractions at the time but but uh you know over thinkinking the situation was not one of them so that's good I don't know if I can do it now a little like backstory on the shop the shop was Hart and Huntington yep har Huntington uh at the Palms Hotel uh Carrie Hart's shop yeah famous Motocross stunt dude famous for doing the backflip first ever in a competition yeah landed a backflip 2000 I think motorcycle which was a big deal at the time doing triple back flips but yeah anyway he W the did it dude yeah and set some crazy standards there for the rest of the that whole sport yep so then he was also kind of you know obviously very into tattooing I was actually around doing I was kind of like fresh out of my

apprenticeship maybe in my apprenticeship and I was watching him get tattooed a lot in Las Vegas which was super fun my mentor was tattooing him yeah Dave Dave log yeah so uh so that's kind of cool we have a whole bunch of ties there but this shop opened up and he like literally kind of he broke a whole lot of rules he was one of the first like especially like famous like known people that didn't or wasn't a tattooer and went out and opened a tattoo shop right which was a bit you know kind of little little faux paw at the time the pond at least in the industry yeah yeah but he went on to do some really cool and uh build out that business to be super successful and one of the fun successful things that he did was get the TV show popping yeah

and then somehow like found you in the in town and yeah yeah well specifically my cousin Jason roof uh was one of his best friends growing up and so he got a job as the first manager there oh yeah okay and my cousin growing up was like a brother brother to me and actually I remember getting a phone call one night asking if I I wanted to be a shop helper so I knew this was opening up for a while because of him and there was just cool to know someone that was going to be a part of that and then I got a phone call asking if I wanted to be a shop Helper and I vividly remember not I pretty much quit my job that night and and I was like 18 19 at the time like and I'd never I didn't put in my two weeks I actually still feel bad about it to this day never and you know we had land we have cell phones at the time it land lines and I remember getting phone calls like where you're not at work where you at you know ghosted them yeah yeah yeah I still still feel bad about that to this day but that's how I got a job at har and Huntington so I was actually there two or three days prior to actually open to the public they did a soft opening to the employees at at the uh the palms and yeah I was just a deer in headlights mostly because of Carrie you know I had met him before but it was just like I know I put him on a pedestal and yeah yeah he's successful still still kind young dude out of Las Vegas like he was one of the first you know guys that I saw out there like really like holy like go

big and get out of not get out but like you know yeah come out of this town you know it yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah then the shop opened and I so you started as a helper you were just clean and doing the standard you just jumped in just to be excited and be in the honestly it was really just to work for Carrie yeah you know I had a couple tattoos I I loved I loved art you know but it wasn't for me it was still kind of underground tattooing like they had tattoo magazines and they had conventions but it wasn't mainstream like it is now you know and so you were an illustrator or or like dabbled or at the time I tell you yes oh yeah yeah what I tell you right now is no I just I just loved art and I had done it and taken classes but it wasn't to

pursue anything yeah it was just like my interest in in school were PE and art okay you know and so and then the two you know right place right time and I I uh my first Mentor Ben Korn I'll be honest I don't even remember what was said it was like it was just big brother little brother I guess I'll show you some things and one thing he worked in the shop at he wored in in the shop yeah yeah and and uh I mean right place right right time um looking back it did I don't I don't know I don't even it was weird how it came about but you know Fast Forward by 20 years it feels like it was all meant to be and it was natural and getting the opportunity to do that I knew I would stick with it the the rest of my life you know and it was again it feels like it was all kind of planned out meant to be so yeah give us a little little feedback kind of on of your because you have some really unique experiences you know like you got hazed and you you went through the whole kind of like semi old school apprenticeship pretty old kind of old like our generation old school yeah yeah so you were getting hazed and like having to do all sorts of silly but you had to do this all on TV which is wild so and with all these like really strong personalities around and these crazy tattooer dudes yeah yeah yeah you know what's funny is a lot of people felt like I was being I was getting hazed and I think from especially now if it was nowadays you'd be getting Haz but uh what I went through on on with my

apprenticeship and it was on National Television compared to some of what the actual tattooers that I was working around like some of the stories they were telling I I had it very easy yeah you know and and uh it's kind of interesting because prior to my apprenticeship my friends and I would always like film each other doing stupid stuff kind of like jackass jackass area not as extreme yeah yeah and I think because of that we were I was already like used to being filmed and doing things and so it also goes back to The Hazing I I didn't feel like I was being hazed you know dressing up in chicken chicken suits and yeah what other kind of did you have to do uh well you told me the milk story or something you had to drink a gallon or milk tried

the very the very one of the episodes where I had gotten a lot of attention from was they bet me I couldn't drink a gallon of milk in an hour for a thousand bucks oh and I couldn't but I think you could you can't I can't I saw someone do it the next day but it was like sounds terrible I pounded a a a gallon of milk I got about three4 of the way through and started throwing up and throwing up blood and and uh on top of that they said they give me $250 to drink the other the other uh quarter and I did that and so I got some money out of it so that was like one of that was on the first season of Ink and so that was um the first thing I did um I mean I remember Carrie Carrie uh bet me I can't remember if he bet me or he said I G give you some money but I wore a thong and went out to the Palms pool and passed out uh like Yeah Yeah so basically butt naked and was he present a lot during that first season I mean was he like one of the main yeah he was I think mostly because he was the owner and he had to be yeah but I I definitely feel like I was on his show more than he was on his show oh yeah yeah and I know he wasn't really end of the whole filming thing but it was it's what made made the shop blow up because without that the shop was about to close I remember it was like if this doesn't work we're going to close and then we filmed and aired and within that first like week or two of airing it was packed we it's so crazy like it literally changed the whole dynamic of like how

people they were walking by that store already already but then the second they see it on TV like justifies it and makes them want to spend their money there yeah yeah now you want autographs and photos and there's a line out the door and it was like it was you know also being 19 20 years old to see the power of television and I was like it was on A&E and I was like no one watches A&E you know it's TLC no one no one and they do or they did you know and it was like wow you know and people want autographs and and and photos and I'm sitting back like why would you want that why do you it doesn't matter I always did it but it was like I'm little old me and then you know I guess it kind of trickles into you know the bad part of it too and people

not liking you or I don't know was like it was just bizarre you said you had some funny like hate emails and yeah yeah I remember this was when the Myspace came out and remember going home and getting on it and looking at it and I had like 10,000 friend requests and you can accept them get the out yeah and it was like 10,000 or you the multiples of 10 and I was sitting there I was 19 20 years old and I was acting him in 10 it was like an hour click click click yeah and so I I'd gotten um people writing me hate mails like like hate like sliding in the DMS and you know yeah pretty much and those honestly those are the only ones that I would answer I wouldn't I wouldn't answer the all the good ones or people saying hi you know and that's weird

yeah I just like yeah I mean I wouldn't nowadays I wouldn't do that but as a kid especially coming from basically nothing you know you feel like you felt like you had to like exess like kind of not like defend yourself like what were you saying off just like thank you for the message and this is going to fuel my fire and you're doing nothing but helping me not hurting me and so you took time out of your day to write some negativity towards someone that you don't even know so it was you know there's one specific one I can remember still but you know there people out and about for the most part everyone's you know all love and and that I actually still have mail I don't have any hate mail but I have mail from from people from fans that would write and and uh like snail mail yeah OG snail mail you got that saved you should yeah yeah I got yeah yep so some funny stories there too you had I know you told me there was like obviously like you're like a 19-year-old young guy so you got some quite a bit of attention off like girl oh yeah yeah for sure yeah a lot of was not mad at that a lot of females around um which was great cuz I was so shy in high school and oh okay probably could have got a chick here and there but I just couldn't talk so I didn't you know so shy and had no backbone and and um so you know two or three years later I'm on national television and yeah couldn't couldn't push the girls away you know well it sounds extremely distracting too when you're supposed to be

there to learn how to tattoo and draw so like I'm so grateful for what I got with my apprenticeship but it was there was not much learning yeah it was more entertainment based like Yeah well yeah and I didn't know at the time but you know fast forward five or 10 years and I'm like man that was just kind of unhealthy and and you know yeah huge thanks to Thomas and mo mostly twig Clark North too but you know for for showing me the ropes but yeah well you had talent to tattooers around you too so but you guys were kind of thrown into this Whirlwind of like having it's kind of like where we're at today with Instagram and on social media like we not only have to be tattooers and artists we have to be entertainers and video editors and dancers whatever the you want to find your niche in but so back in the day you had all these talented guys around they already had their bearings like they were solid tattooers and so you were just kind of jumping in yeah so you did get to be around talented tatto you were super lucky to be around and also something I didn't know at the time you know I don't know they were good they're great in my eyes but I didn't know what was bad what was good but but yeah the all of those guys I don't mean to cut you off but all those guys did they they weren't Vegas local at the time right didn't they come in to work at the shop to be on the show and stuff I can't remember Ben Korn came in he came from California there might have been one or two other ones but

mostly they were all honestly from uh diversity twig Lacy twig was uh I I can't Josh Petty I know he's from Idaho Josh and this this dude Adam I think they might have came from from uh Idaho but uh Jerome Uncle Johnny um it a big crew yeah pretty much all came from diversity oh okay yeah CL Clark North definitely came from California yeah twig was fantastic I I remember watching him before I was tattooing just kind of going down to the diversity on the Strip so he was working in the window like at the Las Vegas Boulevard and I was just like wow he's a crazy good graffiti artist yeah yeah but yeah dang he put up with my yeah luckily so but yeah trying to learn you're working from 600 P p.m. to 2: a.m. you have a basically an onset Hollywood like setup of of production you have people running around with cameras and then it's not a big shop I know you've been there so then you got a bunch of people in there and I'm I'm also being paid my 515 an hour at the time to do my job and then when I can I'm trying to learn tattooing and then I have all the distractions of basically it's mostly the females and like the party scene around and it's you know and then I would tattoo when we Clos from 2:00 a.m. sometimes to like 5 or 6 a.m. and I did that for a long time yeah and uh that's what that's what it was that's how I could that's where I could do it and luckily Carrie would let me yeah you know because he could have shut that down very easily yeah you know often get asked if I ever

made any money off the show which was probably a couple thousand bucks but I always tell him I got a career out of it and could have just said no and then obviously the guys could have not have shown me anything so that's that's how I look at it yeah they could have dumped you just as like a guy who just popped in to be the The Apprentice position for the you know like the script of the show Almost and then got you out so you got to stick in and you I mean that was a lot of your just own being a good dude and taking it serious and showing up and like actually applying yourself so you know it's much of a party as it was it wasn't all party like you were yeah you were putting in work and like yeah being loyal and yeah yeah I would I want to change it for the world but you know if I could it would be like a little more mellow and let's learn about machines and and and um what uh what are some of like you know what's your like first tattoo experience like when you got to sit down I me how many mentors were standing around you and like with you or you know how was that experience well specifically uh my very first tattoo I did um I was going to do a Ben corn skull on my leg one of his signature style skulls yep yep yep and then I was in a tattoo a buddy right after that and of course was on the TV show and they had a surprise and we're in the back room and I'm setting up and then boom around comes the corner Rick Walters and I'd heard about him they call him Papa and so uh Thomas

and uh Clark and this uh other tattooer I can't remember his name at the moment but they all were by by Rick and so he pulls around the corner and of course I'm about to myself you know and it's like oh it's already hard enough and uh but he was very nice very helpful um and I remember you know everyone's using coil machines at the time and he's like hey we're going to show you how you can tell if your machine is tuned correctly this is how you do it and pulls out the machine and you have to run the machine in your hand and uh with water with with a needle I still don't know how I could I couldn't tell at all if it was tuned correctly hurt a lot and uh his hand was all so callous just from that what and uh I'm sitting there like you know and so I basically had Rick and uh well everyone Rick uh Actually I don't even know if twig was there at the time but Rick Walters uh Clark all the camera crew a bunch of people I even know were just all sitting there watching and um yeah so that was on national television and then I tattooed my buddy right after and and um what you tattoo on yourself again you said the born skull yeah yeah yeah still on your it's a skull and crossbow now yeah okay okay but yeah um did that and then I tattooed a friend right after that yeah and our and this was in 2004 of the summer 2004 so 20 years ago this this summer and our joke is that his tattoo is still healing so 20 years later still healing yeah so but uh yeah so that was the very first inside yeah

I think I was you know I don't really remember yeah I I I don't know anybody that has that level of pressure like we had pressure and like our first tattoo like I did my first tattoo Under My Mentor in the shop you know so he was standing over me and that was intimidating this all hell you know but I can't imagine like getting thrown in there with this like old dog who's like a badass cameras your regular mentors and all of the the show of like circus production around you that's fun funny cuz I just remember I don't really remember doing the tattoo I just remember everything you blacked out yeah pretty much I don't know what's going on yeah yeah just peeing yourself at while you're doing it yeah yeah and and then again I go back to being young and really just sitting in the pocket of trying to be I definitely wasn't confident but trying to be calm and I'm sure I was freaking out but if I were to do that all like at age 39 right now it it would wouldn't work yeah I don't think it would work so you did some fun stuff like so how did how did everything start rolling there like so from there they put you like how soon who were you tattooing right after that I was just tattooing friends like I said from like the the after hours like off camera yeah yeah off camera I think I tattooed three different times on the TV show okay and then you were still kind of just being The Apprentice during the show or whatever yep yep doing doing uh Stupid quirky stuff eventually Thomas did not

work there yeah so the second season he wasn't in it and so he was kind of the go-to character if you will and so when he left it was I think it was more or less me and so the second season I was doing a lot more I guess just the the character the personality that they needed uh which I I loved yeah you know I kind of happy I wasn't tattooing on the on the on the TV show I'm sure the tattoos weren't looking good nobody wants to see their their first tattoos ever again yeah so um funny yeah so the second season um eventually I I started tattooing but I went down into Mexico there was a season uh an episode on the second season where Clark was going to take me to an actual tattoo shop because that wasn't a real tattoo shop it wasn't like a street shop okay which I didn't know I didn't know I didn't know I was born into har and Huntington luxury studio if you will and I was like all right we're going to go to a a real shop and so he took me to Shamrock Social Club on Sunset and we're and we're going to go see a real shop okay so okay well I know all the Heavy Hitters are there small Paul um uh Freddy nrti like pioneer black and gry Mark Mahoney they're all fine line um Rick was there uh Mike roach the Bas is from tsol which if it wasn't for him I probably would have had a heart attack that day cuz he calm me down a little bit but really uh yeah got you know it was good it was good at the time I was like actually just watched the episode the other day it was just very like out

of my element which is it's a good thing you should be uncomfortable put yourself in un uncomfortable situation see if you can overcome it um that's why I've been running half marathons here and there you know but so we get there and I'm just doing what we're I thought we're going to go do was go see a real tattoo shop and then out of nowhere Rick drops on me Rick Walters drops it on me like hey you're going to tattoo me and if you it up I'm going to you up and they all start laughing which the this so this was an episode though this was an episode this was a full episode and we there was a bunch of episodes but that one this one really sticks out in my mind yeah yeah I mean 20 years later what what do you remember for minut it's like yeah that episode so I had a trace at Hart honeyton in the Palms we had big old flash books on the counter open it you can see everything uh at Shamar Social Club all the flashes on the wall and so he ped picked out a cobra where it was like the counter went like this and there was a wall and it was like in this crevice and I had to like get in there there there's no iPads at the time you know and I take a pencil and Trace It Off the Wall yeah this was going to be my 26th tattoo at the time so I had just had no experience and oh it was it was rough everybody's standing around you just SL you again yeah and so I I you know tattoo and Rick Walters now and small Paul and Clark North are standing over me and just giving it to me just nothing's going

good you're not doing it right and and it was just I remember Clark North at one point was like what the are you doing that for straight faed like complet and and again I just watched the episode it was like 15 seconds went by before he was like oh I'm just playing with you but like Clark you know he's got the the iPatch and I looked up to him very intimidating he's a talented dude yeah and just like you know it was it was rough but uh Mark we're in Mark Mahoney's his own personal station and he's coming in and you know and he has that like Charisma of of The Godfather basically and it's like I think he levitates I don't even slides for sure yeah they let me in their house and and again tattooed Rick Walters and I remember Rick Walters I don't know if he had a few daughters but there was one daughter there that said that Rick hasn't even let her tattoo to him tattoo him at the time and so you know there's no TV shows yet and then we're on you know Sunset Boulevard and there was just I didn't know how much it meant at least to me at the time until I it passed and it looked back and I was like wow you they just did something very special for me you know yeah this is all coming from you know tattooers that were anti um TV show where everything was underground you don't share secrets with anyone yeah the guy up the street you know him we all help each other it was the opposite of that and it was go it was getting into you know what maybe we all can help each other and try to

build this industry into a better industry versus we're just going to whip everyone's ass and yeah just be a part of the change instead of just sitting around hating on it or whatever but yeah yeah so that and then eventually yeah they opened a shop down in in Mexico in CBA St Lucas then I went down there and and and started tattooing which and they were filming still or no no we went down there to film the third season of in Carrie had opened the shop um he drove a truck down there uh he rented a house where we were going to have like a real world type of deal oh yeah okay iot and it all fell through oh I wonder happened but I from what Blanco has told me is what he heard was they wanted pink to be um Alicia to be oh in it part of it and he was like no I don't really know but I do know that I lived in Mexico for 17 months and they lived in that house for 9 months and I drove around car's truck the whole time no and uh everyone went down there and everyone kind of went back because it wasn't happening yeah and uh you know but you you had some partying down there and some yeah I was like a 17-month party putting in work though like yeah you were busy yeah we we were busy but down in Cabo at least in 2006 and seven and 8 it's very seasonal with with uh tour tourism so it's like 17 months uh 17 months uh seven months we were busy but like five we were not and I think they didn't maybe they didn't really do homework on the analytics of all that they just opened it and yeah where

was the shop at it was right in the heart of CA St Lucas so if you ever been there I haven't yeah there's um for those that been to Cabo uh was right next to squid row it's like they're uh they're it's been there forever actually just have um the girl I've been dating we she was asking about this picture on the wall and it's um of squid row in 1991 and there's an eclipse going on behind it that I got from my grandpa so squid row 1991 and then squid row 2006 is still there and so again if anyone's been to Cabo they know squid row you can't miss it's a three-story Club okay they don't have it's it's grown a lot since then but at the time there was like three places to hang out all within you know 100 feet yeah it's like a very small it's it's

grown a lot since but free Yelp yeah yeah yeah PR Google re review no one was yeling at the time went down there didn't know anyone yeah did you get into surfing and stuff down there or no no I'd already been into surfing but that was one of the reasons I went down there Carrie asked me if I wanted to go down there and I literally did not even hesitate to say yes yeah I also didn't hesitate to do any research on it so when I got down there I got built up what I thought coo was going to be and the complete opposite or just something different and that was a little Dental to the 17mon it was gritty or what I mean I don't it was just like I don't I I I don't know I don't honestly don't really remember what I thought it was going to be but it was not what I thought it was going to be and so I got down there and I could it was hard to appreciate the time were you pushing yourself to grow as an artist at the time or you still kind of yeah just kind of like hanging out tattooing it was more like this is now my job well I was also like out of my element and I didn't there wasn't a whole lot of places to go get art supplies and you had no friends no friends and there was you know you know what's funny is everyone that I got along with were the local like Hispanics the ones that were hating that I that I didn't get along with that I thought I would have were the ones that I were just like me like the Surfers and the skaters they're very territorial oh yeah it was like something out of

uh you know do Lords of dog yeah yeah Point Break yeah and I was like you and I look alike but I'm the guy that came from Vegas that was on the TV show and you you know you you're not welcome here yeah it was like and it was so small that saw them everywhere you know but I had like we had like a little crew and um I mean we weren't starting nothing but yeah these guys there was a couple of them that were cool and open to it but there's some that were and yeah we came into their house and you you're not welcome here you know even though we look identical but again the ones that I didn't look identical with were the ones that were really open I still have friends down down there to this day that are that are you know super cool and uh you know speak Spanish and all that and so um yeah I was not I was growing my my tattoo skills down there but not my art skills which is kind of it was kind of hand inand but yeah it was still like flash driven shop so like or kind yeah kind of you know it's funny as I telling some the other day we uh didn't have a thermofax for the first nine months it was stuck in guadalahara and then it finally showed up one day we're doing hand stencils the whole time and then it got there and then it was was broke so we did hand stencils the whole 17 months oh I remember which is fine if you're doing something real small but like yeah yeah I remember Blanco doing this badass like full realism uh Superman that it took him two hours to hand stencil and you

more or less get one shot at that and uh and so yeah it was you know we again before iPads and so we had a computer where you can go back and like look up reference and and print it out yeah go from there but even then it wasn't the internet yeah wasn't as I need a quarter a three4 angle of this face or just like it was like the internet was still kind of new on on uh reference I remember those times it's like man I looked the whole internet and I can't find the reference and I'm just going to trace really you know I can't dry it yeah yeah I searched through all of the internet for Superman CU or female faces I was always struggling with fale fa me too me too and there's only three of them on the Internet yeah you had to get better at to keep drawing them yeah and that's why till this I still like to draw because I put in so much time to learn how to draw that I can't just use a stamp on procreate yeah on everyone's design and it's nothing against anyone that does that I just for me I need to know how to draw this versus this you know I just wanted the angles you know and it's still challenge yourself yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's like I also was given a lot of by my mentors that you you didn't know how to draw you shouldn't be tattooing and and yeah whatever it is for everyone to this day it's whatever but for me I feel like I I it's that challenge you know I want to be able to draw I want to know what you know again straight on versus the the side view of anything

and it's more it's for me it's more fun anytime I get a chance to draw for someone I am yeah that's great so some people just like to get you to trace something that's already been tattooed and I will but if I get a chance to redraw your your design I'm going to because I put in all this time to figure out how to do it you know it's makes it more fun for me so you ended up coming back after 17 months and then you came did they move hard and Huntington from the or they did from the palms of the Hard Rock so you moved into the Hard Rock but it was still eight months prior to me coming back to us moving over there yeah oh okay so yeah eventually and then we were closed for about a month and then yeah we opened up at the Hard Rock which was a whole a whole another chapter and I feel like it was just as big as the TV show which there was no TV show once we got there but the Hard Rock at the time was no it was the old school party spot dude like the circle bar in the middle so you get off work or all the shows would get out and everybody would rush the part the Circle bar they had re rehab there on Sundays and then Circle bar was just the place to be even like the largest day pool party I don't know Vegas had ever heard of it was C wild yeah and I fed into that big time oh really oh yeah I loved it I loved it I was out there oh condoms floating in the pool the most rogish oh oh that was so nasty everybody's rolling from the night before and they're just yep tripping balls at the

pool and getting drunk and people are dropping out like yeah yeah Carrie opened up waste of space and so had a nightclub and a tattoo shop all these funand coming through remember seeing voodo Glow Skulls there handful of other shows saw mxpx yeah there was there was a lot and so that all being tied in was were you getting some of the musici that were coming through and getting tattooed in the shop I mean were you getting exposed to all different kinds of celebrities and too at that time uh well we we were as a whole we were yeah to back it up from there at the Palms I had tattooed I grew up listening to 36 mafia yeah like juicyj and and uh DJ Paul when actually when I was in Mexico I came in for my grandma's funeral and the last night I was like I'm going out and we went to the Hard Rock and from across the way I'll never forget it from across the way it was DJ Paul and 36 mafia and DJ Paul went like this and I was like and I looked looking around I was like maybe he knew someone behind me and he did it and I I I knew that they were playing at the at UNLV right there that night too and they came over and we started you know chopping it up and DJ Paul used to they used to watch the TV show get the out yeah yeah so literally an hour later it was just me I had friends but we were going to meet over at the Hard Rock or at the Palms and it was me in a Suburban with DJ Paul and Juicy J and these other huge like Bodyguards of theirs and it's just little me white guy sitting in

and we're going about to go tattoo him so I went over there and I I tattooed DJ Paul I did a uh it was a memph an Mt for Memphis Tennessee they went into a an LA for Los Angeles and so I was up till 4:00 or 5 in the morning tattooing them to be at the airport like 9: but it it was damn that's DJ Paul's never heard that story that's cool yeah I ended up tattooing him again um once I moved back so yeah I I tattooed him and that was like wow this is really surreal cuz I grew up listening to them little little white dudes smoking smoking blunts listening to you know their music yeah and so uh but yeah we had we had celebrities coming through the first night we opened I we had uh remember uh you know Sabrina the Teenage Witch which is like Melissa joen Hart okay um Dennis Rodman Jeremy shock was a tight end for the the Giants I'm a huge football fan so there was all the and then yeah forever it was you know car's car's all his friends yeah yeah and so yeah so going going back to the Hard Rock there was people coming through but it was like just Carrie as a as the shop as a whole everyone was kind of tattooing celebrities yeah or there celebrities coming through you know and so I I tattooed uh Sugar Ray they had the AVN Awards there which I always thought was weird yeah I was in there one day and I was looking around and I was like what is going on in here like who are all these people everyone's like pretty much naked yeah yeah yeah the best is if he didn't know what was

going on and he showed up and it's like I had no yeah that's how I roll in like this is the weirdest crap but the Hard Rock was always like that it was like yeah that's that's why I loved it there and that's why I say that was the next chapter and that might have been bigger than the TV show where it was just as fun or as good without a show you know and then you I think I was like 26 at the time so it was it was it was a it was a a lot to be a part of it was great to be a part of um yeah right place right time and again it feels like it was all premeditated it was all set up yeah prior to even even happening it felt like it you know yeah for a long time and even getting a job with with you and and you guys it was it's still like it was it's been part of the the story you know for sure I mean and so but um you went from there then they they closed that shop or yeah they closed that shop because it turned into the Virgin the Virgin okay so they sold the Hard Rock and turned it yeah yeah and so they uh now they're the heart and Huntington's at the Caesars yeah um yeah which is which is cool and it's Carrie sold the shop and there's a guy named Chris Turk that pretty much owns all of them besides the one in Niagara Falls which that one's pretty dope been there couple times I've been to the Nashville one and yeah that one's cool both here I went there last year yeah yeah yeah so there there's one in Niagara Falls literally like a FIV minute walk from The Falls that I've gone

to a couple times and you see that in person it's just yeah I like to I never have actually yeah yeah it's super cool so yeah so then you jumped out of there and then you moved over to Starlight which is another casino shop Mario B shop Y and you kind of like the these are like still high volume shops you're you're charging you kind of maybe I've always chared big prices because you were always in that situation where we were off the strip and we weren we were charging like half of what you guys were charging then you got into like a management position so you're yeah yeah I got a job there and tattooed and and uh I guess me and Mario bar kind of hit it off and saw what I well he saw something I didn't see but what I could bring to the table and it's you know some leadership and and yeah level head which is hard to find um you were kind of humbled more a little more chill at this point in time you're like 5 years into your career or more uh further this was 200 yeah but maybe eight okay something like that and Mario bar owns in tens he and everything yep yep then a couple other things and then yeah the shops obviously yeah he's got shops on the east coast and this was like was this his first shop like on the west coast I believe so so well they opened up well they opened up the two 2008 at the manday Bay which is still there connected to the House of Blues connected to the House of Blues there was a door you can literally go in and out between the two and then he had King

Inc that was at the Mirage oh yeah okay and you never worked over there I didn't work there but I had gone over there when I was working at heart in Huntington and and which was a nightclub yeah that had a tattoo shop in which is really wild yeah another first yeah and uh you know Alex was working there who works with us right now and the stories he would tell and and really just kind of wrapped around it being super busy all the time and what they were charging and um there was politics between that and then they open the shop in the back of the marage just a Starlight and so yeah so went they were still in the Mirage but it wasn't called King yink anymore it was called just a regular Starlight and so you never worked at that one though right you you bounced I worked at the Starlight one oh okay is that what you're asking yeah yeah well didn't they have two locations you said well one was yeah one at the Mandalay Bay and then one at the Mirage and so when I I took the management position yeah honestly I was just trying to make some more money yeah so he paid you on top of your tattoos and manage and stuff how was that experience managing the lovely world of tattooing and taters man um multiple shifts that shop like open in the morning closed late or early in the morning yeah well the one in the Mirage was open at 9:00 a.m. and closed at midnight and I believe it closed at 10 p.m. in the week so Friday and Saturday maybe Thursday Friday Saturday it was midnight and then the

other day days were 10 p.m. yeah which I love because I was you know I was up early and I was off early and I mean as a man as a manager you're never off yeah so got to see that part yeah I yeah you're put on that other side of the fence where now you're peers that you're just been kind of getting along with and watching them up or not up and then now you're the one that's got to be like hey man yeah I know last week we were just friends but now I'm your boss and I need you to do what I say just need you to show up at no yeah yeah um you got any fun stories about that like or how that may have humbled you and one particular story and I won't say his name you already know who you are could not show up on time and uh and it was 9:00 a.m. not on time well so we had to be there at 9:00 a.m. and Mario wanted you there 5 minutes ahead of time and if they weren't it was my ass oh God and it's like okay so 9:00 a.m. you you know most tattooers are not up at 9:00 a.m. so uh we had a a a a 3:30 4:30 spot where you could work and this person also couldn't show up on time for that and I remember literally going to Walmart and buying an alarm clock for this guy and who am I who am I love he's a great tattooer you know and and and just like hey you plug this on the wall before you go to bed you set it it wakes you up you get to work that's what's going to happen you know and and are we talking half an hour late or uh yeah half an hour an hour sometimes and and cruising on in yeah yeah I'll

get there when I get there you know God it's like all right and so yeah I just got to see the the other side of the business and um I'm not going to lie I hated it you know because I love that I have the experience now and then you know now I'm working for you and I don't I don't try to manage anything but because I got to see that other side of the business I I have to I see things differently now yeah something as as little as um you know Mario always Wanted classic rock to be played and I never understood it until I realized that music sets the tone and the mood of the shop so if someone's really scared and they're coming into the shop and they're nervous and they're just getting a little butterfly at the first tattoo you probably shouldn't be playing death metal over over the intercon Cannibal Corpse where it sounds like someone's being murdered cuz it's not going to help them relax you know f for years yeah it's a little the little thing that if you don't you're not on the other side of the business you don't think about yeah yeah I just really got to see and and I I'm very grateful for Mario let me manage his shop because again now I see the other side of the business and what works what doesn't what affects what was kind of like a a routine with you guys like as far as communication go did you meet up like once a week or were you talking every day and he wasn't there right he's bouncing he wasn't there yeah he was he was never there but I had to do daily reports

each day on what I was doing as as a manager oh okay yeah daily reports had to send those over and just like a little bloger you know like what you do today so and so sh up lat basically why am I paying you you know and show me that you're doing something and then we'll talk about those things and at first I thought as a manager he wanted me to try to generate more business and it was like no I I need you to manage the Personalities in the shop because that's what's generated business you don't need I don't you don't need to worry about the business coming in from the outside it's coming in here because versus where our location is what are you curating the personalities and yeah because his thing so you know a lot of shops have like a rotation well there's no rotation at at Starlight because Mario's thing and I and I support it it's like whoever wants to be tattooing is going to be tattooing so I I need all the tattooers out on the cell floor celles floor so when people come in everyone's talking to them the guy that's sitting in the back shouldn't be tattooing because they're just sitting there waiting for someone to come in the one that's out on the floor talking to people is going to be tattooing I'm not going to say names but we had tattooers that were doing that and some that weren't and there was tattooers that weren't doing it were upset at the taters that were doing it and it was like this weird thing complaining that it's slow but they don't want to talk to the

clients yeah you know Mario's one of Mario's biggest sayings in the in the winter time is there are no slow times there's just slow tattooers and it's like I I again and I support him you know but it's like also a mentality you know yeah had the I'm mean old school kind of mentality to I mean I don't know there certain aspects that kind of still just makes sense yeah well it's it's also just like what's your mentality are you are you slow or are you are you slow and you're not going to do anything about it type of thing you know and and so and so but yeah uh yeah the we we did daily reports when Mario was in town we'd have meetings there was another tattoo or another manager TJ That was cuz there was also another manager ailano who got me the job there and him and I butted heads a lot and and so there was a manager that was an actual manager that went to school for management and all that and that was more professional that did have experience okay and he was at the top and then there was us two and he kind of he was more Hands-On with Mario and I was just the new manager so I was kind of being you know I had that the okay like more like a shift manager or whatever and he was the GM of the store yeah yeah yeah pretty much so he ran the finances too and stuff like that yeah yeah and just had the ideas kind of like how you are with your your company's had all the ideas and the good directions to go I did not cuz I'm just new to it you know and so it was good to have someone

kind of helping me you had your thumb on the pulse of the culture though and kind of like knew how to communicate or you know it's obviously always a challenge but like had more of an understanding of how to communicate with a tattooer you know yeah yeah yeah yeah cuz well for me it was also hard because I did friend everyone and then overnight it was like yeah we could be friends but I also have to be your manager but but but yeah it's usually an easier for a tat to talk to a tater but like a corporate manager to talk to a tater is f off type of thing you know so and so yeah yeah yeah and then and then yeah learning learning the ropes of how to communicate and um delegate and also not really rule with an iron fist not everyone wants that you know it's like I don't know there's a the management and how to manage humans is there's just so many different aspects to it that there's yeah it's not just tattooers obviously you know it's like you look at any other industry too and like you just got kind of a few key types of personalities and you just got to learn how to like juggle them all and like approach everybody different and treat them with respect and yeah that's the biggest thing people do want to be treated with respect and that's for me it's easy but also I have a certain way a work ethic you know so when that and it's not perfect but it's the The Common Sense Show up do your best and when people don't do that it's hard for me to not get upset and mad yeah fire you you

know or give you a you know a leeway of anyways so yeah that was very grateful for that so yeah I did all the management stuff uh and I did get out of the management stuff but I have this you know a couple couple years of under my belt of managing yeah where again now I just see I just see things differently you know and and um kind of helped you I don't know level out or like yeah help helps me it's not even like I look at people and I judge them it's like what could I do better for myself for the business Mutual mutual respect in you know for everybody in their positions in the shop yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you know being a team player I read a book about being a team player and and uh the logistics that go into that and and uh yeah it's a whole College course on just just that you know and and um did all the management stuff and um we kind of spoke about mental health and stuff you're very very healthy dude you know you spend a lot of time and energy on you go you know you're trying to fix your back doing yoga running all these things like how do you think that all of these things and putting your time and energy into them kind of you think they circulate back around to making you like you said a better person in the shop a better tattooer yeah Focus yeah yeah well I mean there's a lot of different uh directions that question can go and will go but you know obviously mental health nowadays is Forefront of public you know Society you know everyone's you know this

homeless everywhere there people you know harming other people and just people like you know killing themselves suicide and and and um I guess I can only really speak for myself but um it's definitely been a a journey of I went through a phase where I I started learning about anxiety and it's a real thing you know and I I started getting it really bad in 200 12 and I basically quit tattooing for a year I was tattooing a little bit but moved back in with my mom and and I I would go to tattoo people and I would freak out and I would have to leave and I couldn't tattoo you anymore I remember pulling a line on this dude's chest once and freaking out and I was had to get up and I had to have uh Tony uh you know Humpty one of the tattooers at hent age finish the tattoo for me cuz I couldn't do it and so a lot of it I started learning it's also a lot about how you think you know we're programmed and uh but yeah the mental health thing is um you know I a lot of people exercise because they want to look better but what I get out of exercising is I feel better mentally I notice when I don't exercise I start to not feel good clear head yeah it clears the head and um all the I guess negative emotions that are there that you might not even know are there yeah tend to tend to like simmer down yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I got to not my goal the last year just been doing like a little also people really think that you you have to do this full-blown workout every day it's like right now I'm

just doing little 20-minute workouts at home every day yeah 100 push-ups 100 situps for you know ins sets obviously uh squat things you can do you don't need to you don't need a me gym membership squats um you run up and down the street little jump ropes um I've really been getting into just sitting outside in the morning and not necessarily meditating but just laying down you know and um breath work's a big thing now and and that's it it work it works and it's like the little things I take a cold shower every morning and yeah I tried that the other day yeah it's it's I start what I do is I start off warm and end it cold so it kind of helps easing into it I it's hard for me just to jump into the cold shower yeah but um you know and then breath work comes with being in cold water and breathing and breathing and that's and it's all you know pretty much at the fingertips it's all things that are you wake up next to every day or hopefully you do and so yeah yeah the the exercising the mental health um and a lot of I noticed my my body is a lot different it'll be my 20th year of tattooing this summer and so my body feels different after I do a 4-Hour tattoo a 5H hour tattoo uh I started getting this thing in my the top right part of my back lower part of my neck when I would go do bigger pieces and I found out what it was recently but I prior to that I was doing I started doing yoga to like you know maintain my body um started doing uh uh the chiropractor I was about to start

doing physical therapy stretching I think stretching is a huge thing for tattooers yeah I have tattoo physical therapist and she kind of got me on some like just three four basic stretches you just do like in the back room get up you know it's so driven into us that we need to like get the tattoo done and stop causing pain to the client work right it you look up and you're hours in the same position and you're dude I'm right now and everything by doing those stretches in the back room and like getting up same with my optometrist told me to get up walk around yeah he says walk around every 20 minutes and I'm like well I can't do that like you know rest my eyes yeah yeah so you know it's kind of all the mental health and the all you know trying to make yourself stronger in every way which way how it kind of all comes back to tattooing and relieving that anxiety when those times get extremely tough and you're nervous as about something because tattooing always throws that at you no matter how long you've been tattooing those things come back and help you kind of get through those moments that breathing and you have to keep it in you can't let your client know you're kissing your pants right now yeah you spelled this wrong or you blew out the line in the in the most noticeable point of the female's face or something you know I feel like all those things help me through that and staying up drinking all night long doesn't no no I know that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and uh

it's funny how M mental health and the you know tattooing can mess up your mental health you know it's like it could be stressful and you'd have a thousand great tattoos and the one one where you blew out the face on the female the line on the female's face and the most crucial part it's like now you're going to go home and you're going to you know that's going to eat you up and go home and try to relax and breathe and even breathing in the middle of the tattoos I've been doing been it's you know I've been realizing I'll hold my breath at certain points like you have to remember to breathe and and um relax your shoulders too you know yeah you know what's funny is like go like this yeah I was just going to say my to focus instead of focusing

like like this my focusing is like this yeah and I you know you hunched up and it's yeah it's it's uh you know then it goes back I think to stretching or just doing yoga helps maintain my body and also my mental Clarity and that but um it's yeah I think you have to do it and it was only 20 years ago maybe even 10 where tattooers were and I know they still do but you smoke cigarettes and you drink Coca-Cola and eat fast food and and and then you go tattoo and you give it 15 20 years and your body's yeah it's it's changed and it's changing and I think it's changing for the good we got tattooers that are like you know are being healthier and and uh taking care of themselves and and um yeah I think it's all good things for the most part but but

yeah yeah the the mental health thing and and to the longevity of your body very simply I think is Just Eat Right drink water and stretch you know lay on the ground and stretch so my back is so tight yeah 24 hours a day ab like stretch if I don't do it a couple times a day I'll so tense yeah yeah and and it's free you lay on the ground and just do some simple stretches and it'll go a long way and I've always been pretty Physically Active but I know there's tattooers that aren't and they don't do that and you can see them paying for it and um that would be my recommendation or that's what I do with my body is try to maintain it just CU I also just like it you know but it's again a 4H hour 5 Hour Tattoo nowadays I I have to get up and like lean over and touch my toes and like just hang there for a sec and I got one of the in inversion tables at home where you strap in and hang upside down and decompress your body I got one of on yeah yeah yeah it's it's the little things that you might not think about I still Trip like you think Mark Mahoney stretches every day no absolutely not I see the dude tattooing still and I'm like this dude is such a g yeah yeah maybe he does maybe he does you know I don't you know I I don't I just think like Stan MOS it's he tattooed until he passed away right but so so did Rick Walters yeah you know and I hope I'm still us complaining at 20 like these are tattooing for 50 plus like yeah and that's I would love to tattoo till the day I die I just

don't know if it's I don't want to get up to that point and be like man I wish at year 20 I was stretching you know CU I could have been tattooing right now but I I can't because I didn't take care of myself and my grandpa ate uh 10 raisins every day soaked in Jin okay he said that that was the key his health and wealth I was like I wouldn't knock it yeah I've never tried a raisins me me neither but it sounds something like a Corky old tattoo would do yeah yeah yeah Jin raisins yeah yeah yeah so um so these days you're working at at our shop Studio 21 tattoo here in Las Vegas and we absolutely love having you yeah and I love being there it's fun man we're working on a lot of fun projects together yeah a lot of fun projects and I mean it's just a shop being there just so artsy and remember knowing about the shop prior to getting a job there and I'll be honest I didn't ever think I was good enough to get a job there or I just was like the artists there on this level I'm down here I'm trying to get up there yeah but um I remember Travis who used to work there he worked at Starlight yeah and he bounced on me when I was a manager oh and really he just I think he just bounced cuz it was time for him to go the way I looked at it was I took over management and he was like I'm out we got a job with you guys and then Fast Forward by like a year and he was hitting me up like hey there's an opening over here and you should come check it out and I was already had this plan set where this

is what I'm doing I'm about to get out of here I'm looking but I I kind of have a thing to get through the the winner and I was like I kind of like told him indirectly no yeah not not at the moment or yeah or I told him yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah yeah yeah you know and and then like a week a week went by and he was like hey get your ass over yeah like we have the spot you should come check it out and I knew Studio 21 but I was already like all caught up in this other stuff going on at Starlight and I was like okay well maybe you know and and I was like I don't know and and and then you hit me up and I was like all right I'm G call at Le say hi introduce myself and uh I got a job there my joke to Travis was I was surprised that you would you know refer me over there because I was just your manager over here and I thought you hated me or no I just don't want you to be managing me enjoy you as a person yeah and so once you reached out I was like all right this is serious let me just go let me just go say what's up within five minutes of being at the shop I was like I'm going to go back here and put in my two weeks I put in my three weeks because I thought it was being nice which I didn't end very well over there I I tried to but Mario didn't like that there's a lot going on but I think we had on like it's usually how it works you know like one person leaves and then like oh hey it's good over here come over you know so unfortunately he might have lost like two or three guys

in a row there that was probably irritating but yeah I've had the same thing happen to me so it is what it is yeah yeah I mean you build a great spot and people will come and that's all that's all it is take care it's also 2.2 miles away from Starlight because if it was in two you couldn't go there CU he signed a contract yeah the non-competes that that was interesting I've never done that before point two right outside of there I almost got a job um with Joey Hamilton um at Revolt but I couldn't because it was in the two mile radius and so oh yeah um I knew about the shop I knew about you guys loved the family-owned and operated thing and I don't still don't know of any other shop in the world I'm I'm sure there are some but that have the family-owned and operated Vibe and and feel and even though I don't have much family anymore I'm a family man so I feel like it's the first time I've ever gone to work where I feel like I'm at home yeah I hug you when I see you cuz I genuinely care I'm like excited to see you you know and has that homey feel and I mean me and your family have gone camping before you guys love camping and I you know it's it's uh like that's what I saying it feels like from H&H to Starlight you know the TV show to you know where at now it just feels like it's the next chapter and it just was already set up ready to go yeah you know and it just feels very natural and we've been there five and a half years which is wild we went through covid and all that but

but yeah it's um you know I think what you guys do with Studio 21 you just really set yourself apart from other tattoo shops um with events and and the art and the vibe um I knew that before and then obviously I work there now and now I get to I I feel it and I can see it and I mean I might be biased but I think it's the best best shop in town if not the world you know and it's just so unique good people that's where we got great people so yeah yeah and it's it's hard to find I mean I was like I said been managing it's hard to find people to come work for you that you want them to be there you know dude curating a team of people is an art form in itself it's extremely difficult and and people change too we all shift and you go through in our own lives and we can kind of become different people in or out of the workplace you know so right that's something you always have to practice patience with and yeah you know and they practice patience with me too yeah watch me come in and out of things and stuff right well we talked a lot about you partying and but I I think you're a fantastic artist and illustrator so I I kind of want to talk about more like I just you do and have spent a lot of time like I watch you just put in work man you you try your hardest and that's like something that I feel is hard to find sometimes you know people that just genuinely wake up and they're like this is what I want to work on today and I want to be better and I want to try to work on my female

bases or I want to try to like curate my own style and um become my own person and stand out in this industry and I feel like you're doing a fantastic job of that like coming along building your own style you you're watercoloring a lot and like a traditional like tell me more about like what you're into right now as far as always always painting yeah that's um you know it's a you could you know painting is you could especially watercolor kind of like tattooing you draw it you usually line it and then you color it kind of like a tattoo so the painting aspect outside of tattooing is you have a flat piece of paper it's white all the colors show up great it's flat yeah doesn't move I don't mind if it talks because I like talking with my clients

it's actually one of the perks but it's you know I get you know it's the medium to tattooing you know tattooing can be stressful and difficult and doesn't always come out the way you plan it I guess painting doesn't either but yeah so you know I'm always when I got into tattooing it was always I'm going to be the best I can be and if I ever you know it goes up and down at times if I ever lose that I'm not going to tattoo anymore and I haven't lost it and I'm still I just started my 18th year full-time of tattooing and at the beginning of this year I was like I I think I reached my potential on just being the best tattoo I can be now just I want to be the best artist I can be yeah how can I take my career to the next level and it's still a work in progress and um I guess it's trying to find a style which is you know I I feel like you have your style you're definitely you've got it you're now it's just fine-tuning it and being productive you know you're doing large scale watercolors which I personally have never accomplished in my life and I think they're I think they're awesome yeah yeah I did I did I have yeah portrait mixed with you know you do a lot of like you know your your take on traditional Japanese like yeah well that's so that's that's a thing it's like I don't know if I could just do one style because I have all these other interests so maybe I create three or four Styles and so at the beginning of the year it's like all right I'm going to I want to do large scale

work and what is it going to be and that's I'm still drawing and figuring that out and um yeah so it's it's it's I'm just I've just been drawing three or four different styles and like you said they're all a mixture of like realism and and watercolor and nature and yeah um I love Japanese passionate about yeah yeah yeah and so I realized is trying to set this all up it's actually a brain exercise to figure out what it is that you like and want to draw and tattoo cuz I was the way I was taught was you get good at everything and then you can figure out what you don't want to do what you do want to do um the part that's hard with that is I just pretty much take on everything and that's kind of I think that's kind of my style is I'm good at at everything specializing a little bit of everything yeah I just at one point at when I first started tattooing I would have to say no to things I wasn't good at it and then it's like all right well I'm just going to get good at everything and then when the time comes and it's not that busy I'm not the one sitting around cuz I don't know how to do something or I don't want to do something yeah there's things I don't really care to do more than others but I definitely don't want to be sitting around I love tattooing enough to where I'll pretty much take on everything if I'm not if I'm not good at I'll tell you you know I've been doing it long enough to say that you know but but yeah um PT painting you know I just painted this surfboard

recently um about to paint a table at home ni um where I'm you I'm I'm also trying to figure out not just with tattooing but what are my interests outside of tattooing that is Art that's not watercolor painting and so I'm just you know I'm going to wood stain and this table at home and paint some designs on it I don't even know what I'm going to paint yet I painted I told you I was painting a wall yesterday in my house so I want to like do like a mural with some paints and I I know you do M murals and I see other people doing murals and and so I just want to I want to really expand myself yeah just see what dude throw it out there and see what sticks man it's fun that's I'm kind of that type of artist too where I I see it all and I I just said yesterday one of the saddest things I think about in life is like that you just can't do it all I want to learn how to make jewelry I want to make learn how to weld I want to you know but you just got to focus on some yeah yeah well that's I guess the hard part is focusing on one and trying to master one thing that's what I've always admired about like Japanese culture they'll gravitate towards one thing and they'll literally dedicate their whole entire life to that one thing to be the best and that's why they crush it at the vast majority of things out there yeah and that's very admirable and so cool um that's just not me though yeah black out and I'll like I put 10 years into something I'm like dang that's awesome have so many 10

years to put into well it's like I think you you did do it it was tattooing you know and so but yeah anything else it's it's it's yeah and then you you start throwing in kids and you know relationships and businesses and you want to learn on your own one thing and it's and yeah not enough time not enough time in the day trying to stick stick in our realm of tattooing yeah whatever if it relates to tattooing then I can put my all into it and be happy with it and I'm in love so right right right right yeah yeah so my you know my my passions are really just trying to expand myself as an artist right now good yeah and just learning like I said it's a brain exercise and then you learn about something and like you we're just saying you stick to one thing and that and that's hard because my idea is I have a new idea every day and I try not to bounce around too I'm great at starting things I'm terrible at finishing them and I have all sorts of things laying around that I'm I'm a 10center sometimes but I'm getting better at that later on yeah yeah like another thing I think I've seen that you do really well is the um you're adapting currently still adapting to social media more and more like you're learning how to express yourself um you know through the video platform which a lot of us older guys like complain about and we don't want to have anything to do with right but you've learned to kind of find you know your voice and try to mix your you're traveling and you know your art all

in there so you're not just a tattooer posting pictures of a tattoo you're you know sharing your personality I think that's super important like I don't know you do a great job at that yeah well it's I've been telling everyone I'm tattooing nowadays unfortun it's not it's like unfortunately fortunately it's not just about a good tattoo anymore yeah it's you have to have that it's not a good then it was about a good photo for a while now it's just not about that now you have to have a good video yeah now they want to see your face now you got to you know and um yeah and um I think if you have a large following it's not mandatory but I I think if you don't and there's so many great tattooers nowaday especially in Las Vegas that anyone can go to anyone now and you know and so social media now is like this is your portfolio people are looking for people to get tattooed by and what do they see when they come to yours this is what they see and if you're slacking then they're not going to pick you you know cuz they can pick the guy across the street or in the same shop you know and so and this also goes back to the TV show thing where I I I like filming and editing I like it's fun to me I don't like looking at my screen all day and that's you know what it requires but um yeah and so um I'm not just a tattooer i i i a foodie I love to travel you know I have a personality I'm not a rock without in the rocks in the garden of rocks you know it's um I think some rocks have personalities

too but um you know I I try to curate my page to to you know those things you know traveling and this is who I am so when you do go to my page it's it's not about for me it's not about likes and all that it's about what do you see when you go there who is this person interaction yeah you're always open to talk to everybody yeah we're working on too like just develop more of your brand your personal branding your website and stuff excited to help you with you know I've been seeing branding pop up a lot and i' been thinking more about how to you know that you know who am I what's my voice and like what makes me even Maverick and you got the little penguin and it's like you know Maverick's a strong name you know and so I love that yeah yeah it's great like that's why I'm always like telling you like I'm open like I will talk about this all day long I will help you do everything I possibly can it's fun yeah yeah so it's you know you just I think it's important to never stop learning you know and yeah have no control over other people but I do have control over me and yeah it's like you know about to be 40 this year and it's honestly I feel like I'm I'm behind on things but it doesn't matter it's just like that's you when you're always wanting to learn you always feel like you don't know cuz there's always some more to learn so you're like I always have that feeling of I try not to let it get a hold of me that feeling of anxxiety a little bit like I need to do this I need to

learn this do that you know you also need to sit outside in the morning and just soak it in yeah yeah I don't think I have ADHD but something the way my brain hops around from idea to idea to like being at home and I'm like I'm doing this and I'm doing this and this and this and I'm like oh and then I'll leave the house I'll forget things it's like if I wasn't just relaxing and breathing and and I wouldn't have forgotten that my brain doesn't need to race that fast but I do can't be can't be that hard on yourself too yeah well yeah it's you know it goes back into the mental health way the way we think you know a lot of the way we are is just by the way we think and we don't realize that we can sit back and control the way we think and it's a practice but but anyways um yeah you know been so you want to focus on that kind of in the future bring personal brand and strengthening yourself as an artist traveling more yeah yeah this year I was like I'm still traveling I was going to take time off this year from going on any big trips yeah I mean I still have a couple small trips and going camping next week and it's all within my schedule too you I try I I haven't taken a day off from the shop since October and then before October I went to Thailand in Indonesia which I think I kind of like the idea of not taking time off and just doing a big trip I've talked about that you got tattooed out there yeah I got tto love lady um what is it called it's like love uh love love love love

something but it was a beautiful shop super super cool brain fting you you ever done like the guest spot thing I've I I haven't really I've done a lot of conventions but never really done a whole lot of guas spots and I do want to get back into that right now my kids are pretty young so yeah home but I guess I would I I would love it I just don't I I guess I I don't know my thing was I'm just going to go travel and I'm going to get tattooed at these places and I'm going to friend them and maybe I can guess spot they can come here and guess spot versus like hit you up on the DM hey I want to come work at your shop you going to have me no you can build your relationships and build your Community First yeah kind of like I don't want to ask for

something without knowing who they are no it did it does always still to this day like when I'll just get a DM hey I'm going to be in town this can I work in your shop and you're like I don't even know who you are bro why would I letay you in my house I don't want to be that that guy but I will come and get tattooed by you guys maybe I won't like you or maybe you don't like me so let's not going to ask for anything let's I'm going to come get a little tattoo and check you guys out and and I did that in Indonesia um and that was pretty pretty cool and uh and then I didn't take a day off before that since uh since May so I think this year I was like I'm still doing little traveling here and there I was in Arizona last weekend and yeah and um but yeah I mean I mean I I really have my eyes set on Japan the next year so I supposed to go for my 40th birthday really Co hit Co yeah I'll try again that was the whole also had another baby too so yeah well that's makes things a little more challenging I would imagine I don't know personally but I see I see it with people that have it's tough yeah so overall you you love you love living in Las Vegas you love tattooing here I mean what are some of the highlights of like Tattooing in this town that you think yeah I mean I was originally born here so this is home I also have the right to Nays say some things about it but I think everywhere has pros and cons yeah um uh I think Tattooing in this town we get a lot of Tourism and working at

your guys' shop it's rated number one for reviews in Nevada through different platforms and people that come in town even people that live here especially all the 1 million people that moved here in the last two years that don't know where to go gravitate towards uh those reviews you know and so um we just there's a lot of people in a small area um so that I think provides a lot of business there's also a lot of tattoo shop here but yeah I think I I do I do love living here but there's no beach and I love to Surf a lot of times when I'm going traveling it's go surf somewhere yeah so uh luckily you know 45 minute flight to Burbank yeah yeah yeah I was say a 4 Hour 4 hour drive to to uh Huntington Beach you know so I do love it here I I think

I'll eventually move who knows what the future's going to bring but um I have family here that keeps me here I I just uh met this girl that I've been dating and that's and we both love the outdoors and Vegas is great for the outdoors we're like Central to Zion get in and out of within three hours you got like you know yeah state parks rock climbing yeah yeah you can get to the snow yeah you know and the beach one day if you wanted to and so that that keeps me here unfortunately the cost of living has gone up but forever the cost of living was so low and and that's that was keep riding you riding you on buying a house yeah yeah yeah yeah or Boulder City or something like that yeah yeah I goes back to like the could have what have should I still am open to it but I'm just thinking man 10 years ago instead of partying you couldn't bought a house I can't look at it like that but it's still this thing that kind of circulates in my head like D I wasn't brought up around people thinking that way you know so I never thought that way I think that way and it's you still can do it but would have L to get one of those houses you got downtown for 100 grand it was a little more at the time oh yeah I got yeah my house I live in now I got for stupid cheap yeah yeah like was drunk the girl I was dating at the time her brother-in-law was like mortgage guy so I was like I can buy a house I didn't know I could do that yeah Fu signed some papers by myself yeah maybe I should get drunk and do it

right now yeah so yeah yeah um yeah man well I just dude I just want to thank you for coming I think I think we pretty much got like a good roundabout you know cple you had a real fun story dude doing yourip on National Television is pretty wild I don't honestly know too many people no no one else did it at least for heart Huntington you know the one the one and only you know that did it did it so now you just did like a project with har and Huntington for the 20- year anniversary of that right yeah yeah it's the 20th year anniversary you guys did like some collaborative shirts or something uh BJ uh reached out to me he's like the manager whatever um asked me if if I wanted to come and like you know we do an interview you could tattoo me we

got uh this little clothing line that's a 20e anniversary of some of the styles that we had in 2004 that they don't they hadn't had in a long time and then they just kind of like redid some coloring the colors to them so I went over there and tried a couple on and and uh tattooed them did the interview kind of told this same story over there oh okay um and if it wasn't for them I wouldn't be tattooing you know it's weird if it wasn't for cousin I wouldn't be tattooing if it wasn't for Carrie I wouldn't be tattooing if it wasn't for my mentors I wouldn't be tattooing obviously it wasn't for me I wouldn't be tattooing but you know there's so many Helping Hands that help me get to where I'm at today and it all starts with heart at Huntington so that was nice to go over there and still feel at home and I still you know still uh love them and and support them and and uh you know I'll always be heart Huntington you know that's great they they still like reach out to you and you kept those that's you know a good thing a very important thing is keep those relationships alive like be kind to people man don't be a dick yeah yeah I think you should have the awareness of being kind to people anyways but when you're talking about people you could work for in the future that you don't know that you might have to call them and be like hey can I know we didn't settle sowhere can I get a job no this is why okay well shame on you you know and uh don't burn those bridges yeah yeah so yeah 20

years later you could still go over there that's cool use I thought we were going to go over there and have a phone and and film and all they like this whole production oh cool good you know where do where do we see that at or like how do uh well they just they just came out with the interview I think you can get it on YouTube I put it on my my Instagram fitore Tattoo that has like a link that kind of tells a little bit about the the story of how all started it's fitzcore tattoo fitzcore tat that's where we find you right now until you get your website built yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so uh yeah we just did the 20 year that was really cool um wild to it's been 20 years yeah great I don't feel old but I look at the numbers and it's like you're getting there I feel I feel like I just started in a weird way yeah that's important versus the other way around you know yeah time is a a valuable thing it's very interesting to especially when you get into the higher years and you yeah have a Rolodex of memories and yeah you have a resume you know and well I appreciate you taking the time to do this man this is super fun thank you for having me truly enjoy your company and thank you for likewise doing this it's really fun so um support your local tattooer yeah man if you guys want to check out anything that Josh is working on you see Fitz unor tattoo um catch him on his Instagram and we'll have this content out as soon as we can so thank you guys so much thank you Josh

appreciate it bu appreciate it man yeah thank you yeah things are good life is good so all right guys well thank you so much for tuning in um yeah we got more content coming at you soon and hang in there while we uh while I fumble through this and try to figure out how to host dang TV show or whatever we're doing here yeah yeah yeah have a great day every day yeah have a good one thanks guys have a good one a

I feel like that's the problem with tattoo is is you get pigeon hold and you just kind of stay there until it pushes you out of the business because you're sick and tired of like we have the ability to change we have the ability to go you know what I'm okay with this I'd like to try this I'd like to work on this I'd like to do that and that's another thing is like with Instagram you have the opportunity to be more than one person what's happening everybody Welcome to support your local tattoo I'm Austin Spencer today's guest is awesome today's guest is not only the oldest tattoo alive he's one of my favorite people fantastic illustrator tattoo collector my personal historian of tattooing my go-to my plug Phil luck he the man what's happening say yeah how are you dude thanks for coming down I'm psych to be you I'm glad we finally connected on this we've been talking about it for a while so we squeaked you in here you're you're just in town for like the week two weeks home and then I'm back to New York so you've been doing Road road work back to New York now no more road work just New York and then I come home okay like one shop or you got two or three shop just just scenes just scenes yeah okay well that's awesome then last year I tried last year I spread myself too thin drove myself up a wall so this year it's just just seemes cruising yeah yeah and you you've only been tattooing a couple years right yeah yeah I got a few months on my belt you know what you think

about coil tattoo machines or you seen them before yeah you want to try those out yeah so heard a couple of good things well man you're uh I'm your hands down like one of my favorite dudes I appreciate that I love heing that your we we had some fun stories uh some history I think I've fired you and hired you like 12 times no you never fired I nevered my dad told me the other day like bro we fired him like 12 times and then you know my dad stories get super aggressive no I never got fire I don't remember that so funny cuz I talked to my dad years I got reprimanded for coming in late I think twice that's good s years that's it that's good yeah we had a time together man and it was always fun my my dad was telling me too the other day about this the story of when my sister she used to manage the front counter had you put your hand on the Bible and that was when I came back yeah I had I had to make a whole bunch of swears then I wouldn't mess with any of the floor girls show up on time it never happened it never happened I'm late all the time I got a good reason to be late you know my late story if I was on time I would have been in the World Trade Center when 9/11 happened that's a big deal 15 minutes late for everything all the time if I would have been on time I would have been dead this is the that I go with I can't possibly skip that story so what yeah that's a real story yeah yeah I was on my way to redo my board of health certificate it was and uh me and my buddy Ralphie

was supposed to meet up at that time we never called it the World Trade after you called it the Twin Towers oh okay and we were supposed to meet up at the Twin Towers I was running late he beeped me it was before cell phones yeah and he was like turn around man plane just flew into the Twin Towers what the so that's my excuse for always being late now for on time it was meant to be me to be damn that gives me a chill that's crazy yeah you have you have we have so many more stories to jump into um so one thing we like to do is I know you've got a fun origin story but we kind of always like to hear like where the hell did you come from like how this is going back to like tattooing was illegal right before when you were getting into it like how for me it was and that's why I have such a hard time these days because it's so mainstream CU I got into it for the taboo aspect you know what I mean I got tattooed to keep people the away from me not to have everyone come up to me in Walmart and go do you tattoo are you cheap like I did it to keep people away from me this was my armor you know and these days it's kind of backfiring facts facts I want to get the removed nobody even pays attention um I don't even know like it doesn't even still it's still to me it don't make sense to how I got in the tattoo one because it was impossible to find yeah you know there was no there was no tattoo shop like you had to seek these people out and that was the nice part of Tattooing in an illegal

environment was the fact that you didn't get them look he lose you know you either were totally serious about this tattoo or you gave up looking for someone 3 weeks earlier you know because it would take you months to find a tattooer in New York city so I was dealing with a clientele that was serious about what they wanted to do it was when legalization happened that the whole dynamic changed and all of a sudden I was dealing with people that were like oh maybe I want a tattoo you know I don't know what I want that was unheard of you had years to figure it out and that time you were looking for me you figured out exactly what the you wanted you know D yeah so I feel like that changed the seriousness of the people that actually showed up changed you know but in the last few years the whole dynamic has changed yeah I I mean you know like I said I I before like you know I got tattooed for armor like I feel like a lot of people got tattooed for that same reason or to St out in the crowd and these days people get tattooed to fit into the crowd that's a different part of the brain being worked there yeah you know someone trying to stand out and someone trying to fit in that's two completely different animals the clientele has changed drastically you know I find myself fighting to find common ground with the younger generation all the time that was never part of my job before no you know I was never part of my job before trying to trying to get you to talk to me you know like

even like scheduling a a a tattoo and you're trying to get what the they want but you just can't they can't verbalize yeah you know their social skills a total me I'll go all day I got diarrhea of the mouth this new generation it's hard to get them to say anything and when it's something as serious as you're about to put this on your skin for the rest of your life but you can't verbalize with me it's weird yeah yeah so it's probably better off that they all pick the same tattoo same exact Google image well we're or now we're getting some AI images yeah yeah yeah I try explaining that one to them that's not a real tattoo you're saying yeah but look at how good it looks it's not a real tattoo so what were some of like your first exposures to Tattooing in general like when you were growing up yeah you were attracted to like I got no memory whatsoever of anything that happened in the last year yeah but I remember like that from when I was I remember being 9 years old my little brother he's also a tattoo artist he was still in a stroller and we were at the Coney Island uh aquarium and all of a sudden this dude comes walking around the corner looking like a wizard like long gray hair and a long Gray beard and just covered in butterflies and that was the first time I had ever seen a heavily tattooed person yeah skip ahead six seven years I'm cutting out of school with my girlfriend we're watching TV and this guy shows up on TV and I remembered him immediately you know like it was

like holy that's the guy from Cone Island and that was Huggy beerris who did my first couple of tattoos with fake ID yeah how old were you been uh for my first tattoo was 14 years old and it was a girl's name Lisa still got it we won't get rid of it yeah dude that's a wild was he working out of an underground yeah working out of an apartment in Park Slope brookly okay yeah so at that time nobody was and that was that walking into his place that was it my the day that I went to go and get that tattoo everything was solidified from that point on walk into the joint 5 minutes in I was like this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life and it and that was 34 years ago you know spent two years trying to get an apprenticeship finally got an apprenticeship with Delgato when I was 16 not a not a formal apprenticeship or anything like that you know but it was uh just by lingering and hanging out man I'm sick and tired of covering up your garbage I better show you some you know so you got a whole collection like pretty young yeah yeah yeah I mean I don't get tattooed any everyone asks all the time you know like how often do you get tattooed and it's like not since my 20s I got a little these things you know I did your stomach right so yes one of my favorite tattoos my son who is now big into PeeWee Herman realized last week that that's Peewee Herman's bicycle was like right right away mom mom that was PeeWee Herman's bicycle dang we just watched Peewee last night with we watch

the newer one which is so so good yeah so sh you jumping around getting tattooed like all the every time you got tatto is probably in somebody's apartment in New York yeah like what what like what area were you getting tattooa were you traveling around all over New York mostly with my mentor Steve Delgado I started getting tattooed by Huggy Bear Ferris like iide down and then my mentor Steve dogado did the bulk of my work uh who else in New York was tattooing me back in the day what neighborhood oh that's uh uh H Brooklyn okay yeah that's Benson Hurst just a couple of blocks away from the high school that I got kicked out of a few years earlier yeah so uh' you get kicked in high school for can I ask uh what didn't I get kicked out of high school for I was a truant more than anything else I was a truant so they were pushing me out they were pushing me to do the GED thing which I never did do anyway yeah the city was calling you yeah just want to go around and around you know that's it I learned more than most other kids because I was out in the world you know I ended up going to a high school a very Italian neighborhood and and not dealing with the highest of intellects so I wasn't going to learn much to begin with you know so it was better off that you know I was I I read a lot I've always read a lot you know so I feel like I educated myself and all I wanted to learn about was the city that I grew up in yeah so the city became my school at you know 14 15 years old I learned

Common Sense yeah you I ain't books smart but I got a little bit of Common Sense up there get on the train before that door closes over that's it that's it yeah yeah you learn who to stay away from that's it you learn when to stay out of yeah did you get with a lot like growing up or when you say armor like I was just wondering no I just didn't like people I just didn't you know I I didn't like people when I was younger you know which is funny cuz you're on the phone more than anybody I ever met and you have so many friends yeah yeah yeah I got you know everybody you you were more like a loner though when you were youngster no I always had a type n crew I I always had someone that I was pounding around with you know my brother Leroy was along for most of the journeys yeah you know we cut out of school together yeah somewhat for me to blame it on when we got caught that's awesome so tell me more about your Mentor though like how was that like so that was N I started going up to Delgado in 91 okay um I started tattooing I I say March 23rd 1993 is the year is when I started tattooing that's when I went to go work in my first shop yeah but I started with Delgado in in 91 Delgado he's got a I mean he's we got a great lineage Delgado learned from Tony PLO Tony pedo learned from the moscowitz brothers the moscowitz brothers learned from their father s willly s willly learned from Charlie Wagner you know so I mean it goes right back to the beginning of the electrical tattoo

machine and of course Wagner learned from Samuel O'Reilly so I got this great history you know and Delgado passed along a lot of great stories and nurtured that history aspect for me which was a big deal because history I've always been really big into history if I get into something I want to know everything there is to know about it where it's started you know yeah which is another big issue that I have with this young generation of tattooers we have this beautiful amazing history and nobody gives two any longer about it yeah you know and I feel like a lot of mistakes being made these days with tattooing could be avoided by by the younger generation educating themselves you know how the do you know where you're going if you know way you've been yeah you know just from my personal experience what I've been exposed to with younger guys they don't or gals everybody who's getting into the they're just reluctant to like dive all in like I don't know you and I are like we just put our all into it like I personally didn't really know too much about uh history but I dove into the understanding of how the business worked how how the community worked how why are people drawn to us and like how do I get people to come get tattooed by me and just kind of watching that was like my passion so I wanted to know everything about it how it worked and then also the artists like so right I was I don't want to say it wasn't like super historian driven but I definitely wanted to know the

artists that learned from the artist that art you know and just get deep into that and F like go meet them like get out of your city go go go talk to those people they learned that story yeah yeah just sit there and shut up and listen you know cuz most of all everybody was extremely open and talkative so like the Wilder generation used to be interesting yeah what happens at conventions now everyone just stays at their phone I been to a convention in a minute oh yeah so my personal Outlook the the convention thing is definitely I I was doing them a lot in like 2011 and 12 and 13 and even then that they had it evolved a lot from obviously the past but the um the fact that like now nobody even like hangs out after the convention unless you're in your little click cuz they don't even go to the hotel cuz they stay in the hotel it's attached to the convention and then Uber all separately so like the last couple conventions we worked we sat in the lobby on a Saturday night and there was like three people there and I was like what the that was the draw for me to the conventions was the social aspect in the morning like everybody come down in the morning and all eat the same buff so you had the opportunity to bump shoulders with some legendary and like in the elevator or whatever and just be like hey man like y I just want to introduce myself real quick or you know try to break those little circles but now it's like you can't even yeah that's you just have to work a lot harder at it

so I'm not saying like if if you if you want to meet those people you literally have to go up and wait for them to take their headphones off and like you know do that whole thing but I don't know just it is what it is like everything evolves yeah is it evolving I don't know I guess it is you know it's just I don't know I feel like we hit a pinnacle a few years ago yeah it's pretty it's the hardest game right now ever than I think has ever been in insane how many people are in it you know so talented yeah so young oh I see so many beautiful tattoos these days you know I could spend hours on Instagram just liking beautiful tattoos and there's there's no shortage of them no shortage overwhelming and discouraging but you know in the beginning it was definitely a discouraging situation for me like being like holy this this many doing killer traditional these days in the beginning it was definitely discouraging and then I learned to use it as I I I screenshot a ton of all day long going wow I want to I want to drill something like that I want to do some like that look at how this guy approached this you know that's great so no I I absolutely enjoy Instagram I I I can't talk on Instagram you actually all I do is talk on I know I was doing a deep dive through all your social media or you mainly focus on Instagram right so yeah and now all you've got these like real fun like talking basically just talking reals you know just Brant and they're doing really well right yeah yeah yeah

you gain like a a Mor I one video with like5 million views yeah yeah Jes and I sit there going so let me get this straight I'll spend 20 hours drawing up a design right I'll spend another 20 hours executing this tattoo I'll get 200 likes yeah I say some stupid and I get 35 million views yeah I don't know what's wrong with this is it me but at least you know that's what I love about you too is like you're you see that and you're like a I'll give it a sh I guess keep saying stupid on Instagram as far as evolving I mean that's evolving you're pivoting you're seeing like opportunity and jumping on it I don't know if it is opportunity or what but I don't know anybody it's fun it's a good good way to meet people yeah I like it it's fun as well tell me more like so I don't know like when you were there in New York like I I I just really want to like hear more about to your transition of becoming a full-time tattooer your crazy you had to have some like real fun apprenticeship stories how was your apprenticeship as far as you one thing that people don't take into consideration is the fact that we we didn't start till 5:00 p.m. yeah you know because you didn't you didn't open until the Board of Health closed down because they were the only ones who could do anything and all they could do was hit you with running a business without a license $500 fine call it a day but all tattoo shops in New York City didn't open until 5:00 p.m. because of that so they were legitimate like

advertised you know they were open like it was word MTH no there was Word of Mouth it was in apartments there was VAR the first place that I saw with a sign was the first place that I worked at and that was custom Corner tattoo in Storia queens and I started there in March 23rd 93 but no it was most most people were just working out of their Apartments you know have one room set aside for tattooing in yeah and that's basically the way it went now I figured out a couple of ways to advertise in that situation I was kind of a doing a lot of figuring out ways to Market at that point yeah and there was so few ways too because you didn't want to get caught but what I was doing was I was putting my business cards I was going to all the magazine stores in Brooklyn and dropping my my card into the business into the magazine I remember you telling me that story that was a great and all of a sudden one day and I go to the same magazine stance over and over again a few in Manhattan but mostly all in Brooklyn and I remember walking into this one joint in Manhattan and the the the guy behind the counter going oh wait don't you see what they did now he was like they know you're doing this and then I had all the magazines in plastic and I was like son of a and he was like you're the reason so I'm the reason that mag that tattoo magazines came in that plastic cover so that people could I still figured a way out I just walked around with a box cutter yeah yeah so I still got them in there

now they weren't going to fall out while you were walking at home that's hilarious but yeah it was expensive to advertise in those magazines and I didn't see the point this way you know you open the magazine it falls right out you know I'm in town so that's how I advertised for a couple of years and that phone number led to that you know this beeper it was all beepers okay you'd beat me I'd call you back I love it I I kind of want to go back to that a it was nice it was nice you know and like I said these people were serious because it took them a while to find you you know oh yeah yeah you're like yeah that's awesome yeah I wish it would still like that it was so and and the other funny part is the the fact that the clo the further we get into custom tattooing the less people are I assume that when custom tattooing became a big thing I'd be doing new and inventive every day and it turned out to be the complete opposite yeah instead of them picking Off the Wall they' go on Google type in and pick one of the first three images that showed up yeah one a black and gray owl with the clock yeah yeah Cloud background yeah sometimes it's a stopwatch sometimes it's a it's a Compass you know but it's all the same elements yeah you know sometimes there's gates to heaven you know but it's always some birs and shitload of clouds yeah yeah and this has been 10 years of this being the sleeve yeah I feel it's pushing a flashback into the game though that would be nice it go well also it

makes it so incredibly difficult now to get tattooed by all of these big name custom tattooers you know n the street shop could come back I personally think it's like helping Street shop culture come back but somebody's got to be there to manage those Street shops and keep them open and be willing to sit there the like you said with flash the funny thing is the fact that they're they're afraid to go near flash they're afraid to pick something off the flash and it's like I don't understand you have no problem going on Google and picking one of the first three IM you type in butterfly and you pick one of the first three images that shows up but you're standing in a shop you know like a million people a day you're going to see that image on Google you type in butterfly tattoo a million people a day is seeing that if it's if you go to a tattoo shop where the owner or the artists are painting their own flesh you're lucky if a thousand people a year are going to see that painting yeah but you're going to talk on I would never get anything off the wall because you know everybody's got it when meanwhile you're walking around with an upside down breathe on your wrist you know and you got you know an infinity symbol and it's like really yeah you know maybe they're overwhelmed since sensory overload no they just can't I just I find it funny that they a celebrity will get a shitty tattoo and the next week that's all you're doing is that shitty tattoo on Mindless individuals and like

they'll sit there and act like it was their idea and it's like no I was around for the Dust Till Dawn oh yeah that was a good one at least that was at least a good one you know that one and then the saying that the two the two like British guys they were like Robin oh my God why I'm brain farting right now it's I cuz I don't even know what that means it's like sees the day or some but it was like on a finger huh yeah it was it was something in the movie where they using it it was a trigger finger I don't know oh my God I know why I'm terrible yeah what other good movie ones were there there were a bunch of good movie ones a good anything that Angelina Jolie ever got became Trend immediately yeah what's the the squiggle I never looked at you

know something like that I learned about that through Lars Lou that tattoo out of Berlin loose lips oh he's killer you got some work from him right what did you get from him I got this like this bird yeah killer tattoo he's a crazy dude right I went there to get a skull with flow and he told me no you didn't get it no I was like all right and I left with the bird he actually I flew over there and he told me uh let me sit down sometime this week and have lunch with you and decide if I want to tattoo you and I was like okay yeah super eccentric oh my God to the the the most the most follow social media but he don't post very much but what a great tattoo talk about too like the whole entire industry is basically built around like what he was doing right as far as like new traditional right right he brought it to that next level the giant female faces yeah gorgeous now every way you look yeah definitely super influential yeah he ended up tattooing me luckily after uh 20 different weird stories that happened yeah what a again a character that's the type of person you want to get tattooed by you know you're can enjoy the whole thing that's the thing man this is all an experience we're selling an experience yeah you know like when you get someone in the chair you got to roll out the red carpet you got to tell the good stories and how disappointing it is when you sit in the chair and the customer puts headphones on and you're like ah it bothers me when I was younger I would be like

ah no no no and now that I'm like older and have a lot more going on in my head I'm all fair enough I ain't got much going on these days I need this I need this yeah right like at least tell me some up weird stories yeah that honestly my favorite part of one of my favorite Parts about about tattoing is the interaction with the custom yeah they I feel like I learned a ton about life and all these opportunities and all these different things that you can do different people's careers and learn a lot of what not to do yeah there's some up people out there that are using tattooing as their weird kind of go to for therapy and I don't know why I just thought about this like when that lady that couple brought in those pictures the close-ups of her

genital oh my God and the more I was like I'm not comfortable with this the more she'd bring me more up pictures and like I'm trying to tattoo for you I don't need 18 close-ups of your I remember walking by the booth while you were doing it and you were just like sweat on your head and I was I just kept chugging you know was like you know those were some of the the best that's an easy way to really to really make you uncomfortable yeah you know did you end up tattooing her I did one tattoo on her which was in a very you know private area to begin with but then she was she was just like oh I want a tattoo around this and around that and just and they would bring in 8 by10 pictures of her folders of her genitalia and then they would handdraw like this is how I wanted to look I wanted around here and it's like yeah why but why he pictures why and the husband's just like staring at you like all excited to hear and see your reaction while you're staring at and the more I let them know I was uncomfortable the more they pushed to the point that I was just like a I'm sorry I'm not that toing your I just died just can't do it we just had some really weird uh only fans action go down in the shop oh brilliant yeah and we're not going to do that anymore yeah but the craziest the craziest person that I tattooed in that in Studio 21 was when I tattooed Michael Jackson's dad I know I bring that up creepy creepy situation dude I remember him pulling Two Pistols out of his pockets like three

cell phones that dude had more guns on him than a yeah he was like an army little 83 years old 83 years old he was a g dude I saw him in Like Home Depot like a week later that was an intimidating situation and the fact that he wore so much Foundation like I found out that day everyone talked on Michael Jackson bleaching himself no he had Vitiligo cuz his dad has that's a gen disorder and his dad was white as cuz it took me like three paper towels of green soap and three paper towels of alcohol just to clear off the foundation from his face to get to the whitest skin I've ever seen in my life oh oh I remember how stressed you were so I I didn't want to with you that day you know that was an intimidating and even for like months later all I could think was yo with all that foundation on his face how is this tattoo not going to get infected yeah ever see it like Howes this still sh through like no absolutely not not with the amount of foundation that he was and I did explain it all to him I did say you know you're wearing a lot of makeup I ain't wear no makeup and I was like oh okay I ain't going to question you his mustache was penciled on his eyebrows were penciled on yeah he was an intimidating intimidating old man small Dude too yeah he was like not a big man and but probably one of the more gangster figure and I remember how it happened your sister came in the back and she goes there's some old pimp up front jewelry looking to get tude and I was like she was like are you

interested and I was like yeah and I go walking up front I recognized him right I didn't recognize him right away but he looked very familiar to me I knew that he was somebody and then he put his hand out he was like how you doing man Joe Jackson and it was like a this is going to be weird yeah yeah that was that was wild I Jay swarm had the best quote of the day he said the moonwalk came from his dick good Lord BR J SW I got to get him on here I talked to Nick Nick Ms this week too so he's got some fun stories yeah yeah I know that we all have fun stories about that shop it was a good time and other shops like so you were I mean how long did you tattoo in New York like you said you started on that corner shop yeah yeah I was at custom corners for a year underground but at a commercial space yeah is that when that was the first one you that was the first one that I saw that like that was a 90 that was in a storefront it still was on descript like there was no signage out front okay you know um but it was two big glass doors right on the corner and as soon as those doors opened it was just flashed out there was no guess work how many guys are were in there uh it was normally me Gallow and his wife Tony and then on weekends we' nor have another tattoo there was this one guy tattoo Al clar from Queens tattooed too yeah yeah his wife Tony she was good I'm sure I'm assuming she's a badass she was really good uh she quit she didn't tattoo for very long maybe 10 years oh okay um

he's still t as far as I know Gallo still tattooing uh somewhere in Upstate New York any I'm always fascinated with any woman female that tattooed in those days r as really strong yeah not enough people give Jackie GR him enough credit not just being a female Tater in the 70s ' 80s and early '90s but being a black female Tater at that time she was in New Orleans right New Orleans yeah she's still tattooing she's still putting away she's got to be close to 50 years if not more I want to say 72 71 or 72 so she's got over 50 years tattooing now that's awesome God bless I just saw a cool little video that some like vlogger chicken did on her about awesome she's just cool people yeah I'd like to get tattooed by her someday I've never never had the opportunity I have had a million opportunities but I I'd love to get tattooed by the atmosphere in those shops was like pretty rough or like good kind of oh in New York yeah I mean that like it would no it was pretty it was pretty you know I mean the clientele was was an interesting you know I mean this was a point where not everyone got tattooed where you tattooed pretty interesting people you know um but they were there for that common thing so I feel like as even when I was in the roughest of shops everybody was still to be there you know it was rare anybody kind of I think I think I had more fun at the rougher shops you know tattooing behind bulletproof class in the South Bronx you know yeah tell us about that Uncle Angelo shop

Champion tattooing man we tattooed behind bulletproof glass it was an interesting interesting situation giant names he did uh the Harlem World on mace that's a $60 tattoo that's his whole upper arm it was $30 per word and Angelo had a way of doing these names it could be like a 16l name and he'd still get it to look right as a sleeve as a half sleeve you know he'd fill up the whole top of the arm with one word never used a liner always Shader for everything the lines were clean as yeah uh he had an interesting approach to tattooing you said handdrawn on or no yeah everything was handdrawn on everything was wasd drawn on by hand as far as the lettering went and I was there for a couple years it was it was tough gig you $30 names $30 names you know so two names that that Harlem World was 60 bucks you know yeah um and it was yeah just bang him out we'd have a a list of you know who was next and it was just sharing them out you know it was me uh Uncle Angelo Angelo scato and Jasmine who had the Tattoo Nightmares television show okay and that girl could tattoo oh way Beast fast as and that's what it was we were just churning these tattoos out that was early 2000s 2000 2001 2002 I worked up there um interesting situation you know uh tattooing a lot of Jamaican gang bangers you know and I remember Angelo being like you better be nice to these people cuz all the women they carry acid in their purses and I was like come on and one day this lady goes she's I'm tattooing and she's

like oh man they mess with me me throw the the ocid in their face and I'm like what she opens up a purse she got like a little baby food jawer like some clear liquid and I was like what is that she was like it's acid oh I was thinking acid like no no no like legit with I know it had such a gangster face off acid not burn your face off acid burn your face off acid yeah know it's obviously oh now that was it man I was like man this is a scary neighborhood little little old ladies walking around with jaws asses in that person dude you got to do what you got to do man that's yeah that was the South Bronx that was the South Bronx that was an interesting situation throw acid in their face then you just throw the glass on the ground and then there's no proof of anything that's it that's it yeah oh another time I had a lady tell me she told me she wanted to get her tattoos done before she went to jail so I was like who I'm just going to ask I like what are you going to jail for she goes to get me te did and I was like don't understand what that means so she leaves and I go Jasmine what is to get me Teeth did mean she was like oh she caught a case so she can go and get her teeth fixed on fixed for free oh I was like so you just go to jail to get your teeth done just do a little time apparently this is a thing be able to eat clean when I get out this isn't thing new teeth I might catch a case pretty soon I could use a few teeth fix so how many did you tattoo like all over New York

all five burrows yeah I tattooed in all five burrows I feel like I remember you telling me that story it was kind of fun to say but Brooklyn I've never tattooed out of my apprenticeship I've never I've I've I was and that's funny cuz I was always Associated as a Brooklyn tattooer CU I'm from Brooklyn but I never tattooed past my apprenticeship in Brooklyn I learned in Brooklyn and out of respect for my mentor left Brooklyn immediately oh okay kind of common yeah I haven't tattooed in over 31 years in Brooklyn haven't done a single tattoo in over 31 years in Brooklyn was that a mutual agreement that you guys just a respect thing just a respect that was a time when tattooers respected each other you didn't dare open up on someone you know even someone you didn't know it didn't matter if you had beef with them you just didn't open on on on another tattoo yeah you know and in the beginning there was you know there was a a group that took care of tattooing before before it went legal a bike club that that handled all in New York City tattooing and if you did have a problem they'd come and they'd shut you down you know I had them show up when I was a kid tattooing out of an apartment out of a friend's apartment and they showed up and they were like well you first off they were not expecting to run into a kid they were expecting to beat the out of some older dude you know and they were like well who's doing the tattoos and I was like well I am and they're like who's doing the

tattoos I was like no no no it's me yeah and they were like you were supposed to take your like find a mentor find somebody who can vouch for you and that's when I found Elgato and and no he started helping me out and we telling me every day I'm not going to teach you I'd only teach my kids you know and then like two years later when I'm putting out killer work he was like taught him everything he knows oh so is he still around or yeah he he actually just moved to Florida he was in the same location in Brooklyn the same apartment he was tattooing out of until two or three December December he left Brooklyn but he was that working out of that same apartment on 81st Street and 18th Avenue since 81 82 yeah long time to work out of a little corner of your kitchen yeah that's wild and just put out some of the most beautiful beautiful work imaginable you know killer killer traditional stuff damn so like around the time like when did you start meeting like bow Stan and bow Stan was early on in Bow Stan I met him the first time 94 94 or '95 and I had already put him up on a pedestal you know I had already heard all the stories about Stan and him Tattooing in the bowy and shadam square and the 40s and 50s yeah so I had already put him up on a pedestal and was expecting this this hard exterior dude and that's not what I got I got the sweetest guy you ever want to meet who became my biggest fan overnight you know and I remember him calling my house one time and it was like if you're

a guitarist then Jimmy Hendricks calls your house like it was like really is this really stand like you know and he was just my biggest fan you know dude would would tell everyone would just sing my Praises my whole career you know I remember one time going to a convention and I was entering that Mickey Mouse back piece into the convention and he sees me and he goes are you entering a piece into this show because I'll make sure you do well but I got to warn you there's already a winner somebody did this Mickey Mouse whole back piece and I I was like that's me like oh you won oh it's funny cuz I we digging through your Instagram yesterday I saw that and I that piece specifically still stands out to me this day like I remember it was one thing that I looked at at your portfolio when you came to look for a job I was like oh like it was just so simple and fun I mean it was my favorite tattoo I can't look at it without SM size was so next level I can't look it without smiling I'm still good that was done in '96 I've never seen a Mickey tattoo that big before no and you never will he's a huge man yeah you're so used to seeing that tattoo done this right right and that was the point was we we'd always joke about it when a small tattoo would come in we'd be like it's a little Mickey Mouse tattoo so I was like you know what I want to do the biggest Mickey Mouse tattoo possible so like I said to the floor guy I was like yo try and talk someone into a Mickey M I knew it was going to

take months and months for him to find somebody but I was like you know try talk someone into a Mickey Mouse tattoo like two hours later he's like you know that dude Dill that hangs out across the street at the beer distributor he's down to do a Mickey Mouse back piece and I was like well I thought it was going to be a normal size that dude's a monstrous human but I still see him pretty I saw him last year the tattoo still looks amazing so solid yeah that's my favorite tattoo I can't look at that without smiling yeah I love that tattoo yeah I want to see that in the wild just on the beach yeah from a mile away yeah yeah totally yeah you can see it from the sky yeah I'll check Google Earth next time when he's at the beach brilliant so you got to build up a good relationship with uh moscowitz and like so you you kind of mentioned you got to meet him as the kind guy but he has some like on him he was a hard ass braw I mean he was he was one of the Bowery Boys you know he was pres the it's so fun to like meet somebody and then you hear all these stories all these crazy stories about and but he was a tough mother up until the day he died you tattooed all the way until the day he died too or you you tattooed we had a friend uh Baja bill that built machines and him and his wife used to do conventions with Stanley Stanley would go out and work at their place in ball ber main during the Summers CU he like the fish that was his his thing so he'd go out the ball Harbor and fish in his

free time and tattoo at the shop all day but they were working a convention together and she had gotten into the elevator alone they were cleaning out the booth so they were coming up you know just bringing stuff up handful at a time she in the elevator two guys got in and held her at knife point when the doors open to the elevator she screamed and she said literally Stanley was there with a knife in his hand in no time she said he knocked the one guy out and had the other guy up against the wall with a knife to his throat Stanley was like 78 and she was like I've never seen somebody work that quickly she was like the look of fear on those guys faces and she was like they weren't small men you know they didn't know he was just a braw brawled his whole life you know and he used implements of torture you always talk about hitting people with hammers and yeah I was Hammer thing cuz he tattooed me and I've got the the fish with the hammer really I never got the logo off of him I never got the logo from him I got a bunch of cool tattoos from him but I never got the logo from him think me and Bob Tyrell are Blood Brothers cuz we we did those right next to each like I jumped in right after that and need to change the needle yeah I watched the uh you know the old you know the first time I watched him tattooed now mind you like I said this was 94 995 so I mean we were already in full swing with cleanliness and tattooing so to see somebody tattooing with no gloves was a trip for

me yeah you know and it wasn't just the fact that he tattooed with no gloves it was the fact that at the end of the tattoo I was studying his hands and being like how is there no blood or ink on your hands okay he'd wrapped the fing he did the old school wrap around the pinky so that was his dabbing hand you know but no blood no ink the only Trace was his thumb which he had the acetate stencils he was still using acetate stencils so he put the chalk all on with his thumb so his thumb was permanently black yeah but it blew my mind that I put on a pair of gloves I do a tattoo I'm coverting Within seconds and this guy did a whole tattoo on me and there's literally not a trace on his hands you know and that was something that I'm sure you had to learn tattooing with no gloves yeah cleaner like not overfilling your yeah but I remember the first few times Civ had taken him on the road to a bunch of conventions and I remember Stanley being like yo I got to wear gloves at these things and it's like how's that going and he was like it's terrible he was like I my hands don't feel right I can't I don't know I I I can't feel my machine correctly and it was like yeah I bet that would be you've been tattooing like this for 40 years 50 years at this point yeah you're about as in tune as it gets there's nothing in between your experience no so yeah that was that was it for him was and and and and it was funny how when he tattooed me with gloves on his gloves were spotless you know because

he was so used to tattooing without gloves and not getting anything on his hands that even his gloves was spotless when he tattoo you know he was an incredible incredible person I count April 11th 2020 as the death of tattooing because when we lost him we lost a huge part we lost all connection to the old school the guys who knew the guys who invented all of this yeah I mean he was friends with Charlie Wagner Ace harand Bob Wicks Bill Jonesy you know he was friends with all of them and that was the last connection that we had to that that whole era of tattooing yeah so losing Stanley was a big was a rough one for me if I had to put a death date on tattooing it would be April 11th 2020 because of that I love it that's one thing I love about like you I just love your your passion about the history and everything too but I love how you'll dig into other people's history too like you you broke down for me the uh my personal L absolutely like I don't know how tra y need to drive back to the pike that's big that's big yeah so you learned from Dave log Dave log and Dave log learned from Hing hinge Rob swingle I don't know if he's still I feel like Rob swingle passed away recently he was a a Pennsylvania guy originally I thought he got killed no know he I'm sure he got shot in many garages but he was another talking about huge men that dude was like a mountain yeah I never actually got to meet him I saw saw one picture and then heard a lot of St a big scary gangster type Vegas dude

yeah uh spent most of his time in Vegas but originally from Pennsylvania from small town in Pennsylvania yeah okay so then then that goes back you said went back to the pike yeah so he learned from my buddy Jim Hodgins Jim Hodgins was a Pennsylvania tattoo matter of fact Jim's in the hospital I got to give him a ring tonight Jim Hodgins learned from a guy named Fat Mike Tandy Fat Mike Tandy learned on the Pike oh so that's that's your lineage there so that goes right back to if he learned on the Pike that that that completes your connection to uh that Chestnut Street Tattoo Shop um that Carrie bber owns now I got my name on the wall in there that me too I I was so psyched about that yeah she kept the original name on that or whatever it's now Twilight fantasy but it was originally called well it was Bert Grim Shop I think it was just called Grim tattoo oh okay I think dang I want to like sit down with you one day and actually look at the pictures too and like really go through that for me personally but yeah but you can trace yours back for right back to the beginning right back to charie Wagner and Samuel O'Reilly so cool I and I don't feel like I hear Too Many people talk about their lineage ever as T Well because most people you know I mean these days it's you know a two-month apprenticeship yeah you're learning nothing you know how many times a day I'm going through Instagram and I find people tattooing over moles like what did you learn in two months like you didn't

learn the like there's rules there and there's rules for a reason you're tattooing over pre precancerous skin I'll see a tattoo where like 15 lines are over moles and it's like you could have Twisted that image an eighth of an inch yeah right yeah and missed every one of those moles so so you got to wonder do they just not give a or were they never taught that you don't t had two over precancerous skin sh I mean I've accidentally hit one before and you see what happens exp I remember when I very first started I was working on this big piece on this guy's back and it was just like a real light skinn Mo I don't know it just I for thought you were going to be good yeah I didn't see it I just ripped right on through it and then it was his back through that like 3 hour tattoo was just a stream of blood all the way to his ass crack coping it with ointment yeah I'm over there with my elbow or you know looking around that's what every other T wants to stop into Booth to talking you they know exactly what the he did you know oh good times good times I don't know why that reminds me of so many up stories of just being in that position where a mentor or somebody around you or your co-workers are standing over you and just you know it's going right now and you're stressing why are you here now out of here you haven't stopped in my booth in 3 weeks feel like you're doing you're doing this on purpose that but that gave you that grit though too is like when you're stressed out of your mind

you just had to keep that straight face and get through that tattoo customer your client didn't oh yeah he's a bleeder yeah yeah you blame it on them or some we drinking last night stressed how many and do you got any fun stories had fun stories about just up a tattoo like yo I totally misspelled a back to a shoulder toh shoulder lettering oh my God it said like big ass block letters yes okay like uh Old English it said remembering never remembering never cuz it was one of those things where I mean this was before I not that I use an iPad now but I had to do it on like a perfect tilt so to get it to fit I redrew it like 15 times at at one point and it was just the outline cuz it was shoulder to shoulder you know yeah and dude calls me up and goes hey man I think you may have misspelled this on my back he was like but I have an idea on how we can remedy it and I was like this guy this has got to be a joke like this guy is way too nice about he became one of my best friends he was actually was actually a best man in one of my weddings no joke dead dead ass uh and I was like how are we going to fix this and he was like well if we put across to balance it off on this side and and I forget how we fixed it on this side but we covered it up and I have photos of it I got a bunch of photos of it we turned it into a full back piece yeah of course a good ass deal too like if you look at it like even to this day like looking at the photos of it I'm like wow I really covered that well

now mind you he didn't pay for that whole backie yeah dude nothing motivates you more than that moment of life but it was the fact that he was so cool about it as I'm losing my mind going oh my God what do you mean yeah and like he was like no dude I got it figured out like this is what we need to do to fix it and it was like why are you so cool about this you should be freaking out on me oh man my praying hands with six fingers was a good l the biggest inting dude ever too oh really yeah he was same though he was incredibly cool about it but I was I was doing those like I oh I do these dotted lines right that's where you shade off of well you know stencil got a little messy and I just hard lined one one of my reference lines where start fing yeah it's better than missing a finger the worst thing is he came in right while I was sitting there in a empty quiet shop with my boss sitting right next to me and I was a skinny ass little kid and he was a big old Samoan dude and so of course I gave always works I fixed that for him obviously for free and then I also I was like bro anything you want he goes he goes okay you know and then they just jump right in and get tattooed by you again why not yeah why not but damn there is there's cting the fingers yeah there's no motivation like the attempt to not get your ass beat by a your boss or your new client but yeah I get did this Savage giant black and gr pitbull on his back with the biting through chains and all this three sessions

of work and I was just like oh happy to do the best to do it yeah I didn't tell that story for like the next years oh yeah no doubt no doubt has some man we all got them it's just a matter of admitting it yeah you know we all got them uh so you got some fun relationships with so many other fantastic old school tattooers too like I mean you introduced me to like Phil Eddie ah Eddie's another one what an amazing human being yeah like tell tell me about Eddie cuz like you got to travel I got a great story about Eddie actually before I knew him before I was born probably he had he had moved to California doc dog had a shop in vanise California okay and he wanted to move to a town and the rule at this point was 10 miles away was the rule you didn't open on anyone who was less than 10 mies away from you so he went to Doc dog first and let him know hey I'm opening a shop it's 10 mies away doc dog was like okay you do you the day that he opened doc dog shows up on his motorcycle and said Eddie I just clocked it you're n miles away from me and Eddie reached into his pocket pulled out the keys handed them to Doc dog and said it's your shop now and that's the way things were done he invested all this money into building this shop out had it all planned that he was moving to this part of California from the east coast and just like that handed him the keys turned around and went back to Philadelphia oh he didn't even like re no re that was it okay and that was the respect that

tattooers used to have for each other now at this point they didn't know each other from Adam yeah you know they ended up becoming very good friends because of that situation but that's the way things were done now if you opened on Eddie he put a cinder block tree window yeah right you know he was telling me some stories about how many shops he's opened up over the years and was like an an absurd amount of shops right yeah and then the crazy part is when he retired all of the people who worked for him were under the impression they were losing their jobs they didn't know what was going to happen he's retired he's going to close up all the shops he called a meeting where all of his employees showed up and he said everyone who's been working for me for 40 years on want stand up half the room stood up 40 years or more and he said you guys all own the shops he said you guys got to pay for the lawyer bills but you guys all own shops like we're going to figure it out some of you are going to have to double up you know some of you it's going to be three owners but you guys all own these shops now damn and I talked to a couple of them that were like yo I walked into that meeting thinking it was I guess I got to find a new job and then I left owning a business damn you know but that's that's proof of what a great owner he was that 40 years was half of his employees damn yeah yeah how many shops did he own when you when he did that jeez you know Eric that's another guy you should

interview Dr Eric Eric knows exactly how many he had like he said at one point Eddie sat down and really did the paperwork and figured out how many shops he's owned and it was over 100 yeah like throughout his lifetime it was over a 100 shops remember he had like a well-tuned formula for opening them up you know what it was real simple through clean the flash that was going up if you walked into any of the shops it was basically the same Flash and same places he knew what sold what to put up front you know he he knew how to open a shop and owning the supply business I mean he people forget he was Nationals in the beginning yeah and then he was United after that him he opened Nationals I want to say 73 or 74 I want to say 74 was when he opened Nationals and that's when it was in Long Island New York him and his sister went Partners eventually he walked away she she bought him out and uh in the '90s he opened United tattoo supply which was basically the same type of stuff as as Nationals you know all the machines had their their intended purposes you know they were manufacturing those like all in the states at the time what they I'm pretty sure everything was their catalog and Nationals catalog were almost identical I'm trying to think if he had anything different everything was better everything was a little bit better the only thing that he had an issue with was he went with a different size with tubes I think the tubes were a little bit bigger so all of the machine Mach

wouldn't hold regular sized tubes everything would slip with a regular sized tube you have to buy his tubes for his machines yeah you think that was on purpose uh yeah absolutely absolutely Absol 110% he was a smart do I have any other good Eddie stor I got a bunch of good Eddie stories here's a funny one concerning Eric Eddie used to talk about when he'd retire you wanted to sit on a bench and feed ducks that's what you do when you retire you're an old man you sit on a bench feed ducks so when he found the retirement place that he wanted to move to he was like there's a pond Right Out My Back Door he was like this is it I will spend my retirement feeding ducks at the pond so Eric goes to visi him he had been there a couple of months at this point Eric goes to visit him and Eddie always always referred to Eric as his son so Eric says he gets out of the cab in this uh this this uh retirement community and these two old ladies come running up to him and they're like are you uh Eddie funk's son and he's like yeah yeah yeah and they were like we want to talk to you there's signs all around the pond and we've been explaining to him please do not feed the Ducks but he just continues to feed the Ducks so Eric goes listen I'll talk to him but I can't promise anything yeah so with this he goes in he goes as he opens the door there's a pallet of duck food at his front door like literally a pallet of duck food at the front door so he says Eddie the he was like a what am I I'm an old

man I have beat Ducks it is what it is he says next morning like 7:00 in the morning he hears the and he hears Eddie Shuffle over to the door and he hears hello ladies and he goes it starts Mr Funk we've asked you numerous times can you please stop feeding the Ducks they're on a very special diet they can't be fed now mind you they're they're standing at the door with the skid of duck food right and he goes oh no I'm not feeding the Ducks and he goes there's like this silence he goes and I know they're looking at the bags of duck food as he's saying this he goes I'm feeding the elephants the problem is these Ducks get here before the elephants all the time and eat all the food he goes total silence and they just walk away dude I'm feeding the elephant he he was a ladies man too oh oh my goodness oh my goodness I got some fun he was a trip yeah he he you the time you brought him into our shop he sat there I was all excited to show him around the shop I'm like hey Eddie you want to you want to go a tour or anything and my sister was working the front counter there and he goes no talking to her like okay right on man and that time I was getting that tattoo by Stan in Vegas at the biggest convent you know Mario convention uh I was sitting there my the girl I was with at the time he liked blondes apparently but he I was sitting there trying I was getting a tattoo standing on one leg with my other leg like on the chair and just getting all sorts of and it it didn't matter it

didn't matter the age he knew how to talk to women of all ages I have pictures of my of three of all three of my daughters with with him as an as infants laughing hysterically the first time my daughter Charlotte ever smiled and laughed was interaction with Philadelphia Eddie he knew how to talk to women I was I was all excited to talk to him again and he just shut me down at everything I said and then he had my chick laughing her ass off she's over there giggling and like he's like you know just touch I'm like he's great he was amazing and smell amazing always smelt amazing you could smell him from a mile away oh the suits and everything he was a Class Act biggest personality tattooing has ever seen Philadelphia Edie hands down Bar None again another one that we lost and and so important I just came across a picture of Miu my dad him I think Gil the drill and S I don't know speak characters yeah yeah yeah cuz he was like he used to dress real wild back in the day too and I remember seeing him at some shows in Austin Texas in like the early 2000s a trp he was cruising with a little tiny puppy he had a little miniature Chihuahua and just his gold teeth a trip he had like I'm pretty sure he wore a suit like a big ass suit most iconic skull tattoos to this day yeah to this day you can pick his skulls out from a mile away and that just so true cuz I just started I dug through his Instagram the other day and it always it reminded me of like I started when I started drawing my

skulls they were real different and I remember him saying something you do it wrong for long enough it becomes a style and I always remember like every time I would draw my skulls they were real different than every but I liked and that's just how I wanted to fing do and people talk a ton of man and then sure enough like I did it for 10 years or whatever and then I was like doing day every day yep and they translated well the tattoos you kept them simple you kept them raw and simple and that's what will always hold well for tattooing yeah and I think later on I I really just tried to simplify everything I was doing and tattoo like what you would do or teach me to do too at times like real traditional but just with my own illustrative style you know so I just changed the the way the lines flowed and then everything else was just packed a black in leave the skin open so let me ask you a question so your mom was always super artistic yeah what how did she how did she Artic yeah artistic how did she nurture that in you when you were a kid she just always like always exposed me to everything as far as just kind of naturally maybe not even like intentionally she was just always painting she'd be in the kitchen airbrushing when cuz she wanted to learn how to airbrush she was um always we did a lot of like hand painting and when I was a little kid or there was always like a oh do you want I I learned how to make uh paper you know and then I I just thought about that the other day I

was like I want to do this for my kids we were taking a bunch of newspaper ripping it up into a million pieces and then putting it in a blender and making the pulp and then taking the screen off the house the rental house we were in and just smashing it through the screen and putting all my dad's weights and like old piece of wood on it you know and then pulling it out of the in the sun just letting it dry up and then we would try to paint on that just fun little things like that like really teaching you about more than just the surface of anything that we were doing is like and that's kind of where you know I guess we both talk about just diving in man get into it get whatever the you're into learn how to do it and just go deeper and deeper yeah yeah it's fun man it's like I don't know yeah you know a lot of people are blown away when I when they find out that I use these rotary pens these days yeah and it's like you know that's another thing from my lineage was all these guys wanted to try new Delgato was buying when when RH re first became a thing he was buying them up left and right Tony pedo same thing you want to learn about this stuff you want to know what's why yeah you know and like these days I mean the convenience aspect of these pens is one thing but what a difference it is from the coil machines you know a huge difference huge I thought it was going to be like oh you know it's just no yo completely different ball game yeah but just my switch from uh coils to

Rotary was mind-blowing right you know like I got like I think one of my first rotaries are like neot shag buils right right I remember that oh these these this is it you know and then I later on was like that kind of I guess was a stepping stone to try the pen stound machine after I was guilty of making fun of my peers for using them for a little bit and that was my point was I wanted to I wanted a I was like I'm going to use this thing for 3 months so that I can learn more to talk about with us it as ammo to talk you know what this is good this is a good tool that I could keep in my Arsenal you know and it's been a permanent part of my Arsenal ever since it's wild you know did you ever have any like physical issues from tattooing for so long like when I are you kidding me my posture I guess uh anything that stands out other than just slowly like I went through corpal tunnel in the 90s okay yeah that was pretty rough like where I was putting my hands in in ice buckets every night at the end of the day really and then I was dating a nurse for a while who put me on all of these vitamins and it ABS I was about to get the surgery and I'm glad I didn't because at that point the surgery hasn't wasn't as advanced as it is now oh yeah yeah yeah and like I heard a lot of horror stories about you know people who ended up with so much squa tissue that they couldn't do anything with that hand any longer yeah so was going to say or you just end up so as n Phil these days it's nothing

these days it's noninvasive you know it's it's weird how goes like I when I made that switch from coils to Rotary my shoulder like gave me for like two months dude it when you made the switch to coils yeah from coils to to Rotary huh I don't know if that was just my own I find more hand now remember I've I've always used smaller grips I've always like that's the one problem that I'm having an issue with with the pens is the fact that that's it's you're you're stuck with that one thick ass grip and like for fine line stuff I prefer a a pencil grip you know the th grip on your hand though see but I find the opposite I find the opposite gangster bump or no I I had I had the the money bump yeah that's long gone that's long gone yeah that I still got the the pin and uh burning hole in my finger naked needles you know like soldering all the way up and you're like it's melting my skin and that's another thing that's another part that nobody even realizes anymore was the flux intake oh my God you can taste it you taste it right now that's salty yeah yeah burning your nose and how you'd have perfect needles all the time because the ones that weren't perfect you threw the away yeah you knew exactly you inspected them every single yes you knew you knew you knew that your needles were going to be made exactly the way you wanted because you were making them yourself you know and it and these days you're you're kind of at the mercy you know and that's what I like about your stuff is

the fact that you you got the loose and the tight like nobody does that like how many times I'll deal with another supplier and it's like Ah that's way too tight for me and I'm in a jam because now I ain't got and I was hoping you up and I'm sitting there going how the am I going to tattoo with these tight ass needles don't I'm going to give you some samples of our Hollow liners today too oh right on right that's a challenge the whole actual switch from needle on bar to cartridge was still is like it's just takes a lot of experimentation to find your your right fit like there's I'm using groupings now that I didn't even know existed I was using the very limited groupings of needle on bar then you jump to like I thought a loose nine was like

the biggest thing you ever had now I'm like using tide 11s and they're like typ fives on needle on bar but they also provide this like kind of different touchability yeah fun and you I can still kind of taper in all my line work like my whole career I've never been able to like connect from point A to point B it's like taper in taper out and I'll connect that with shading I don't know that's just my weird little style it's come a long way a long long way it's G you so you're also a collector like I love like you I'm like I want to jump all over the place that rotary thing that you posted that Stan mosit made that's real that's real it looked I was like did you make this being a bullshitter what and he invented that in like the late 60s early' 7s so people talk about you know all the first batter that was the first battery powered rotary machine dude I want one of those I'm can't imagine there's there you could still find them really you could still find them they still pop up that one that I posted last year I had literally just got my hands on earlier than that and even the cartridges it's got cartridges on it it's so wild so it's like you know we look at this as like a new thing and it's like Stan had this idea in the late 60s early' 70s so he was just cutting the whole bar off essentially but where the needles mounted weird yeah they they would actually they fit into the the like the cartridge is actually permanently on the machine and you'd Slide the needle grouping

into there and then there was a screw that would tighten the the needle grouping down so basically the plunger is what you were connecting your needle bar to your needle to yeah yeah um I I could bring it by one day and take a look at it it's interesting as but it's just the point that he had this idea back then again this is why he's the most important tatto of our time that's cool he had these ideas a long time ago and tried them out you know for everybody that's interested in like learning more about them or I don't know where are some links or like where is there books or documentaries unfortunately he's one of the ones that there's not too much out there about you know Phil Philly Philadelphia Eddie he has a real good documentary that's just about him right oh well it was supposed to come out it never came out but there is how did I watch it uh probably through Eric yeah cuz I remember really enjoying it and I feel like I got a copy of it at one point in time hopefully it's still in my DVD collection cuz are you sure you thinking of that not the S of Jerry documentary I think I might be thinking of the S of Jerry cuz I've never seen the the Eddie one but I do know that it was in the works for a while but we got the books we got seven volumes because he had a big part in the seeven in the Sailor Jerry thing yes yeah he was in the they J that though yeah yeah cuz we used to play that in the shy smoku great documentary great documentary I should Replay that we used to

just kind of play it on a loop like in the lobby for the customers yeah that was a really good documentary yeah the eddie1 never came out but we like I said we have the seven volumes of books that you can still find pretty easily yeah um Stanley unfortunately no we're going to lose we're going to lose his stories and that's another thing that bothers me like I said like there younger generation don't care to even hear the stories let alone pass them along you know so it are his stor going to end with my generation I hope not you know I talked to enough young tattooers that I hope they're going to continue these stories on and tell these amazing stories about about him because right now there's nothing about him I'd like to sit down with you

and just do this more and Doc that because if anything that can be a way for it to carry on you know and just out of passion and interest it's fun as and like you know who cares if anybody I at least it's there and hopefully they'll come full people interested I got my fingers crossed Hardy Mark books is reproducing everything now so that's a huge part because there's a lot of people that we need to know about in those books those tattoo Time Books I'm sure he's going to redo those I know he redid just recently they were promoting there's a handful of people promoting the tattoo Dragon Tattoo book is that the one that he read yeah yeah just just recently yeah yeah so that's coming out and hopefully he just continues to reproduce all of those books because those books were important I remember trying to track down that Dragon book The New York City Public Library had like five copies what and I went all over trying to get it of course nobody had it it had been taken out there never brought back but I tried tracking that book down for a minute I remember going all the way out to the Staten Island library and going out to the queen library trying to find that book there and they were like no it was borrowed once and never brought back dude damn huh yeah yeah so then like and Eric didn't he I I thought he was going to write more books about Stan not he was going to do Stan he was going to do Rambo he was going to do Gil Monty and then it just he did spent so much time working

on the Eddie thing and it took so much of his time to promote it and everything yeah and the books you know I mean it's hard to sell books yeah you know and like the first couple first two three um volumes flew off the shelves but then when you're coming out every year with a new book yeah people don't really keep up as much and then when there's seven volumes people are like well I'd have to buy all seven volumes yeah I think I have all seven I think yeah I have all seven and I have all seven audio and that is amazing that's funny amazing to hear his he just had the greatest voice he narrated the whole entire book the whole thing whole thing we need to get Eric in here yeah yeah so does he still have the books I want to say he sold the rights recently oh no yeah no he didn't sell the rights he sold the last of his stock recently oh okay that's a whole different book game yeah yeah he still has the the rights but I'm pretty sure he's done like I've said it numerous times like yo in 10 years you're going to put it out as like one big book and he's like I don't know I don't know if I want to and it's like you need to make sure that his his story keeps going yeah I'm just so yeah I if I can help in any way that would be really cool too cuz I I got to be there I got to go do shows with Eric and him we traveled and S next together I got to have lunch with him and Lyall Tuttle and and Eddie I I can't remember Stan was there I don't think he was at that show it was like a

Vancouver Washington show and we sat on the river in this little restaurant and I didn't say a word you know I was just like so enamored and just sit there and listen to Lyall tell all these crazy stories about smuggling cocaine and all sorts of wild and another Ladies Man like the dude's those dudes just you know I learned early on with Lyle i' bring everything that I had Lyall Tuttle related the conventions knowing that eventually he was going to find his way to my hotel room and smoke all my weed okay and as long as there was still weed to smoke he'd stick around and just do whatever you asked okay so I'd show up with like 40 different items and be like can you sign these for me and as long as I had weed for him to smoke he would was more than happy as soon as the weed ran out he was like well I got to go one time I got a good story about him one time I ran into him at a Lobby of a a convention in California and he goes to me Philly did you hear I I quit the nose candy now mind you he was like 80 at this point yeah and I was like did you how long has it been ly he goes it's been about 20 minutes but my guy should be here any minute God damn character yeah character yeah there's not enough characters any longer there's not it's wild it's definitely a lot more mellow which has its you know pros and cons but damn so yeah but so back to you collecting like you've got like a beautiful collection of I used I used to have a great machine collection I got rid of a bulk of the

machines my flash I sold off most on my flash what do I I got I got a great power unit collection okay I saw that the other day too on instagam okay I have a great power unit collection I still held on to a bunch of stuff I bought a Jonesy off of at one point I had 17 Jones's in my collection original Jonesy I got one these days and that's the one that I got off of Stanley that they told me um it was built by Jonesy would sell packages as well you could buy you could buy the machines already built or you can buy like you know it sell you a spool of wire and all that so Al Neville would buy them as in that state and build them himself throughout the the winter this way come summertime he didn't even have to tune a machine it would go out of tuny Thro it in the garbage cuz they were that cheap at this point w so he said one morning he woke up to his mother this is Stanley Stanley and and Walter said they woke up to their mother screaming at their father because Al Neville who was staying with them had used all the contact paper out of her cabinets in the kitchen and wrapped the coils with them so when he sold me the machine he was like this is the like him and his brother looked at each other other and chuckled and they were like this is the last one with Mom's contact paper what and it was like what so yeah that that so I'll never get rid of that machine that one's probably going to the Grave with me yeah that's an early 40s Jonesy so you sold off the rest of the stuff to just

like other collector yeah yeah you know as times got harder I'd let go here and there one of my uh dude Eddie that that learned from me years ago in Jersey he he was smart enough to buy up a lot of a lot of stuff off of me he's got all my flash collect a lot of my original flash too he picked up off of me see yeah I I don't I have a handful of original stuff of yours but I would like to get more yeah I got boxes of it where's like big booty girl collection yeah oh yeah yeah yeah the plump rumps yeah that was a great show dude you know I hope that my kids want it but I'm afraid to think of what happens to it after I'm God yeah you know is it going to be place mats yeah huh dang well so you were you're also an inventor you you invented a uh a

dual grip tatto machine what was that tattoo just back to some of your brilliant idea though right Am I Wrong Am I Wrong we in all reality we use it one hand it was good so so you're tattooing on the road now are you were you going to tattoo in Vegas or no no I'm done with Vegas okay so you just come here and hang out with all the saturation has killed me I'm here strictly to spend time with the kids yeah yeah and you're out of scen shop yeah which is another whole another character we didn't even bring up like inventor of I me he was definitely the beginning of new school tattooing nobody was calligraphy in lines before richy scene you know he brought that graffiti art element to tattooing when nobody else was and gave so many people ideas

no you know when you were a graffiti artist in the' 60s 7s and 80s that was it that's as far as you were going to go was scrolling your name on trains yeah and then in the late 80s early 90s when Richie became a household name and tattoo and every graffiti artist you'd run into it be like oh oh there's a there's something else I can do yeah and in by the end of the 90s the bulk of these new school kids came from graffiti backgrounds because Richie made it okay for them to do that you know wild and just rewrote tattooing you know the most unorthodox approach to tattooing I had ever seen yeah like what was it about it you know obviously like his Ting up your lines to begin with and for and for so many artists that sets because you'd see them pull that fresh line and you like hope you're going to cover that but not with him everything was crisp and clean so he was like why are you calligraphy those lines you know but even like I remember the first time he tattooed me he was doing a hard on my stomach and he used instead of going black and then doing your red over it he was mixing the red and the black and the cap to get this brick red and it was like i' had never seen that before yeah you know I'd never seen a tattoo or approach it and and mix like that you know and and it was like hm so you're not going to use black shading you're going to use this red shading instead and then put the other red on I had never seen that before that was unheard of for me and you know everything

every time I'd watch him tattoo i' I'd find new and it was like oh you're not supposed to do that but why is it working so well as an entrepreneur too and him isn't is his spirit is strong like the dude the funny part is he's that guy that gets to the Pinnacle of something and then goes well now I'm done yeah you know I've seen him do it with a million things his motorcycle collection I going to bring up motorcycle collection was the most amazing motorcycle collection I've ever seen in my life yeah and like just one day he was just like okay well I got the greatest motorcycle collection in the world so let me get rid of it yeah did he sell all that oh God he's still holding on to a few I know he still got um big twin he's got a few of them I want to say yeah he's got a few of them left but at one point it was like 40 motorcycles and a 100 of them were show quality you know been on the mag been on covers of how many magazines even if you didn't know a damn thing about motorcycles you stare at that collection you're like what the so beautiful but that's the way he is with so much stuff he gets to the he gets it as far as it can go and then he walks away with tattooing yeah he became a household name with tattooing and then was just like ah it I'm done too many people around me that's it that's it how many shops does he have still just the one okay well that's actually owned by his brother now but he still has a huge part in it but at one point he had there was the shop in in

Manhattan there was a shop another part of the Bron I'm going to say there was probably altogether six or seven different scenes over the years okay but that one has always been there he did some wild as far as promoting his the truck yes so I'm actually working on a book right now Bo I'm not working on it yet but right now it's in the infancy stage where I'm just getting a lot of people together because the shop has been there almost 40 years there's been well over 400 tattooers through the shop yeah and I'm try and compile a book with you know just funny stories about the shop you know the history and and I mean it's all the personalities yeah the amount of people that have been through I mean I got pictures of Big Pun in the waiting room

that's crazy you know like the amount of people who have been through that place and the tattooers that were through there you know just in the time that I was there and then 90s I worked with Amy James Darren brass Lucky Bastard you know so many killer tattooers you know yeah interesting shop so I'm I'm going to try and compile that book and have it done in time for the 40th anniversary which will be the 26 will be the 40th anniversary so I got two years to get it done I had like a lot of goals to do something for our 21st anniversary and I just just drop the B I know the feeling I know the feeling I got enough people involved in this already that know it ain't going to go away easy good yeah focus on it keep I've contacted too many people

about it and they're excited so it's not going to be an easy one to to not do with yeah yeah but yeah I mean when I'm there that's it when I'm at the shop I'm living in the shop you know so it's like I could stay focused yeah when I'm home I'm all over the place no I'm all over the place I can't get nothing accomplish I'm trying to learn how to like compartmentalize myself like if I'm here I'm working here if I'm at the shop I'm only working on if I'm at home I'm only being a dad and maybe a husband a little bit of there just trying to do it all is really hard but if you're in one place and that's all that's around I just feel like I have that the thing that gives me the ability to focus yeah no no I have a hard time focusing at all I do I absolutely do well what else you got going on with tattooing like what do what do you kind of honestly I'm I'm working on a new style these days like I don't want to talk about it because it's a completely different name nobody knows that it's me but I'm working in a completely different style of tattooing 30 years 30 years of working in one specific style pushing one specific style I'm good I set out to impress several tattooers when I got into tattooing and I did it at a very young age yeah you know Stanley moscowitz Tony pedo Steve Delgado you know I I set out to those were the people who I wanted to impress Angelo Scot and I did yeah and now I want to do other because I'm so here we are years later and I'm still like okay well I'm good

at traditional yeah 30 years of working in one style pushing one style I've worked in you know I I do a little bit of everything but I'd like to to become known for other right you know I feel like that's the problem with tattoo is is you get pigeon hold and you just kind of stay there until it pushes you out of the business because you're sick and tired of it like we have the ability to change we have the ability to go you know what I'm okay with this I'd like to try this I'd like to work on this I'd like to do that but and that's another thing is like with Instagram you have the opportunity to be more than one person yeah you know what instead of having that portfolio with 10 different styles why not be 10 different tattooers right you got 10 coals in that you know you got 10 irons in that fire yeah so you got a much better opportunity of pulling more customers if you're 10 people as opposed to one dude with a very varied portfolio you focus mainly all your time and energy as far as social media goes just into like Instagram or yeah no I don't mess with any other that's too much this is too much for me Instagram is too much for I put up a real in weeks I'm like what am I going to do yeah how do you go about writing those just ideas pop in your head and yeah uh smoking weed talking that's it yeah yeah one of my friends complaining that's the big what's everyone complaining about this weekend normally I'll be able to get an idea out of that yeah but it's hard it's hard you

know and then I'll have an idea that I'm cultivating for weeks then somebody else puts it up and I'm like I slapped I slept too long the the Instagram God say just redo it do it in your own St yeah it'll pick up I'm having fun with it though I can't complain I'm having fun with it I enjoy this IG when something gets viral like that I I get so excited I get so excited you stoned by yourself like bumped on it that's it that's it you know I love it I blame myself when goes wrong yeah these days I've learned that when goes right to Pat myself on the back yeah do you know that's really that's a big deal because I I've never given myself credit for anything ever I always just try to keep my head down and just work and I I'm learning to the older I get the more I'm like well I mean I actually did do something here you know and like yeah I don't know you know keep St still stay humble obviously proud of yourself kids are a big part of that kids are a big part of that they help you ground I've learned to like myself being a that it's the best you know it's fun it's hard as a tattoo or two though and like a business owner it's like I mean I don't like to say anything's hard because everything can be hard but it's a challenge you know like I want to work all day long and then but then when I get home I'm like oh work I want to do this forever like we shouldn't be working so much and then I got my my 15-year-old who's like why I think I want a tattoo and I'm like no absolutely not yeah

Nick BS is teaching his kid out tto I know I know dang yeah that's a tough one that's a tough one so we've I don't know man I mean I I want to talk about so much stuff but I I think we're pretty good here right on there's always always round too there to down I want to do a bunch of other fun stuff with you yeah I want to I want to hear more like in depth stories about specific you know people that have influenced you in your life and motivated you through tattooing and oh there's so many of them yeah there's so many I like that so I've been blessed to have you in my life and you got to work I feel the same way I feel the same way I love your family yeah it's good I appreciate it dude thanks so much for coming down and doing this thank you for having me what uh how does everybody reach you Instagram Instagram Phil luck tat Phil luck tat F Luck tattoo watch some stupid yeah I can't promise you going to see anything good but you'll laugh well thanks for doing all those and thanks for doing this me right on man I appreciate you brother love you too all right guys thank you so much for tuning in this is it man be sure to check out filuck and all the fun that he's doing so thank you guys we appreciate it have a good day peace