Maverick ZINE — Tattoo Culture, Art & Artist Stories

These two girls walked in and my mom had like, just come in after her day job and we were like, what about a piece of this? And just lifted up her shirt and just butt naked in front of my mom? I was like, what the fuck is happening? And they always whoop about two feet up Lena on the wall and just shit and like, what do you do to the ground? That was it. All right. Today on the podcast Buddy Holiday from Downtown Tattoo. Having worked 25 years as a tattooer, he opened up Downtown Tattoo on Fremont Street in Las Vegas back in 2008.

He's built one of the most covered character smoked American traditional tattoo shops in the country. You go to, like, open the back door and it just smears. Poop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man. We get into some wild downtown shop stories, Fremont Street chaos and what it's really like tattooing in some of the craziest environments Vegas has ever seen. Most of the time they lie and they say, I'm going to go travel for a bit. Yeah. And then next week they're posting on the street up the road and you're like, why can't you just be honest?

Like, we're not having sex? No, I know you don't need to lie to me. You're breaking up is hard to do. Yeah, right. Plus, we are joined by my dad, Charlie Spencer, as we break down old Vegas tattoo culture, how the industry has changed and the reality of building something that lasts. I'm Austin Spencer, and this is support your local tattooer. What's happening? Everybody, welcome to sport local tattoo where I'm Austin Spencer today.

I'm super pumped, man. We got my buddy buddy suit that came out on that. Sounds like, Buddy Holiday in the house. And, we are. I don't know, man. I've just, like, been dying to talk to you. And we got my dad, Charlie Spencer in the house, so. Yeah.

What? What do you got? This is is this. How many podcasts have you done there, buddy? Have you. Yeah, yeah. Are you getting more comfortable with the whole process for more comfortable? No.

Yeah, I was, I was watching your episode on Skin Deep. Okay. Yeah. With Josh, like. Yeah, it was great. He did. He did a good job. Yeah.

Yeah. He didn't like he made me look better than. Yeah. Than I usually do. You know, I think a lot of us is like, obviously we're just we just been tattooing and we've been all tattooing way before social media and having to talk to the camera type shit. Yeah. It's weird. So now it's like a weird thing, but I think this setup is like a little more comfortable.

Like, once you kind of sit down and relax like it gets a go in there. But one thing I do is I always, like, touch my glasses, you touch my face, I'm like, what am I doing? I can't watch, I can't watch any of them. It's like a wheelchair. Oh. Like what? Yeah. Yeah.

He's like, I don't know what to do with my hands. Yeah. Today I'm excited easily because I'm getting over the flu. But yeah. No worries. Well, I'm glad you're healthy. And thanks for coming here, dude. Yeah.

So, I mean, we've owned tattoo shops in the same city. We've tattooed, you know, a lot of the even some of the same people and stuff over the years. It's super fun just to sit down and bullshit and rap and I'm like, stoked to learn about more about you and, share with everybody. Like my passions. And like, I'm super excited to talk to you just more about like, dude, your shops, like you have two shops now or hands down, the coolest shops, like, I'm probably, I think like, I, I really, really love going to your shops. There's like, there's just so much soul and so much energy and history behind everything. And I was like, watching this video the other day. It said that you had like 1300 hand-painted sheets.

You think roughly around, like way more than that. Way more. Yeah, yeah, we're probably Fremont Street, I would say like over 2000 and then Water Street we got now we just we're almost done with the ceiling. So we probably have like close a thousand there. Yeah. All of you. So like the flash racks we sort of like I got flash racks and we started filling those. I need a I'll have the shop.

Can I count them okay. No exact number because now I'm now I'm curious. Yeah. For sure. I mean, we used to count I used to count like, oh there's like a little thing that we painted on the side. I'm like, I'm not even gonna count any of that. Like, that's just. I just want to like the sheets.

Like the angle. Yeah, yeah. Your shops. Right. And all the sign painters that you've had come through over the years and different illustrators and stuff do all sorts of cool shit. Like, have you been in the, the flash racks like the old days? Yeah. The stores, they're hard to find now.

Yeah, yeah, we still have our fun. Amused or something. Yeah, ours are somewhere. They're in the back closet. I've been going on to sell them. Let me. No, no, I was just thinking that when you hear me in my. I want to keep them now or, like, pull out.

Like I pulled out all this like old Bill Canal slash and yeah, I'm like, Aaron delivered just a lot of, like, San Diego guys that I follow it over the years, you know, so I have a lot of their stuff and shit we picked up from, like, Mike Bozell and, oh, you know, just like a lot of random stuff, but I, we didn't really, like, collect a whole lot because when we came on, we were trying to be custom shop, you know, so it was like that we had that time when flash racks, though, maybe we did. Yeah. Yeah. You know, for the first like 4 or 5 years at flash and I don't, I don't remember all the names, but yeah, I was one that I always enjoyed. Perfect. Had great flash. So you have two shops. You, one in old.

Old, what do you call it? It's like Henderson. Like old Henderson. Yeah. Downtown waters and water Street. And then you have got the OG one on Fremont Street. Yeah. And that's your second location of the Fremont Street one.

Like. Yeah, we were on seventh and Carson and then, when Zappos moved everything down to, say, the owner of Zappos, he started buying up all the property down there. Yeah. And it seemed like he just thought everyone that was in the area that was already there or just garbage. Yeah. You just kicked everyone out. There was like 2008, like, during the recession or some shit, right? Like I opened in 2008.

So that had him in charge. Okay. 12 to 13. Okay. So my lease came up for renewal and they wouldn't renew it. So I did two years and I renewed the first two, and then after the next two they wouldn't renew it. So and the building was just sold and I was like, okay, ours was in the process of selling. I was like, get what's going on here, here.

And then they like kicked us out to put a restaurant. But it just worked out where I'm at now. My landlord, he didn't want to rent 30 shops because he had like these, like two different shops right next to where, like I'm 1106, who's 1104. He had two different shops in there and they just like they were like one shop was running girls out of there. Another one. Oh yeah. He's like bad, you know, so bad set up for him. And then so I was like, no, please just come check out the shop I have now.

So he came in and we talked and he's like, he's awesome. You know, he's all, yeah on old cars and stuff like this. Like and you know, and I had my Merc at the time so. Yeah. So I he was jazz on my car is like. And also my wife was around so you could see that I wasn't like, yeah, I was being a jackass. Yeah. Well that neighborhood was pretty rough too.

I mean, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. And like, you know, that guy kicking everyone out was bad for a lot of people. It was so, like, all those motels were like. I mean, there was like, a lot of old people living on those, like, the only option, you know. So that sucked. But then like, yeah, some of the shitty people got kicked out too, you know, that word came up, but, karma's a bitch.

Yeah, and deal with it still, you know, like he did. Yeah, yeah. Fucking. Damn. So you been in yours? You said since the new, newer. Yeah. The new one.

So 2008 to 2013, we were there just like exactly five years. Yeah. And from 2013 to now. Yeah. Do the not owning the building thing is like to any younger tattooers that are getting super excited about opening their shop and everything and you start getting in there, you start putting so much time and love and energy and investing in that property. And then the fact that you could just lose it at any point in time is pretty bummer. The same painter to paint the windows. Yeah.

Those with you. Yeah. But I did get the door. You did when they remodeled. The construction workers brought the door. Oh, yeah. The glass from the door. And so now at home, I had it on my tiki bar.

Like, I like, built the bar. It was like a, like a shadow box. You know? And then when we moved, I disassembled all that. And now I had someone, a guy build a desk for the front of the shop, and it's. Oh, that's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the other day.

Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Yeah. It's so cool. Been in there. Oh, man. I went by your, your older shop and, for some reason you were closed or something. You know, to visit one time and, and don't get downtown much, so I haven't been.

Yeah. Down here. New shop. And were you living down there for a while? I did, I lived at the Newport Lofts. Okay. Yeah. Which was quite a trip.

Yeah, yeah. J j swarm telling me they go there, run like, laps on the roof or something. Yeah. While we were drunk. Yeah, yeah. Throw fireworks at the bums and shits in the on the sidewalk. I looked down there and there. Hookers are down there walking around.

And I had these poppers that I bought in San Francisco. Yeah, they sound like fireworks. I mean, they're they're not like the little ones. The kids pop. They were, like, twice as loud. So I get a bunch of drug dealers and hookers down there, and I just toss a few down and the streets just cleared. It was a areas that nobody thought to look up and see where they were coming from. The 17 floors up, you know, it was that was great living.

Now I enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. You were a spectacular I know that and nonstop you know entertainment from above. There's. Yeah. There you been you've been downtown for that long like you have seen it get better. But there's also still an incredibly large amount of just wild ass shit and reminds me, like, I don't know, there's something I love about, like, wild and a tattoo shop being in a wild ass neighborhood.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. As long as it doesn't come into the shop too much. Yeah. And usually they learn pretty quick. Yeah, yeah. They're not welcome there.

Yeah, yeah. They know where they stand with you and everything. Yeah. You had some pretty wild stories up there. I'm sure you got some wild walking in. Oh yeah. Yeah. So.

Wow. Yeah, yeah. Some regulars that come and go or Yeah. As far as. Yeah. And then they like, they'll disappear and you're like, oh do they die? And sometimes you'll see them like years later and they're like even worse. Or they're like the rare occasion they're better.

Oh, come by and then you're like, wow, I'd never would have guessed that you. Oh that's awesome. Yeah. It's not that often I get. Yeah, that's kind of like the stories from our first shop down there. Oh, yeah. We were right by the the tunnel was a mile long tunnel where there's a whole city of people living under there. So they'd come out of the tunnel and introduce themselves to us, on a regular basis.

Sure. Yeah. Have you seen those documentaries about the people that live under there? Yeah, yeah. Our city. It's one, two, two. Yeah. So we were right there.

Like, that was one of the main entrances and exits. Was like, right at the base of our shop. So the amount I remember I was sitting at the front counter with my mom one day, and these two girls walked in and they were just I could tell they were kind of like working girls, you know? And then they were like, asking about a quote or whatever. And my mom had like, just come in after her day job and was just standing right next to me, and they're like, well, what about a piece of this? And just lifted up her shirt and you butt naked right in front of my mom. I was like, what the fuck is happening, dude? I'm like, yeah.

And the bums like shitting out in front of your shop. I'm sure you know where you wake. Yeah. Do you go to, like, open the back door and it just smears poop? Yeah. He was like, oh man, I remember Cain. Our piercer, Cain Friesen, came in one day and he was just really upset. He goes two, two.

Just pulled up our dress and took a shit right in front of me. And right in front of the shop. And I said, well, good, I don't know, go spray it down. Yeah. I thought, I don't know what to do. And they always like, they always poop about, like, what, two feet up they like. Yeah. Lean on the wall and just like, what?

What can you just do in the ground, you know, is it all right where you can't get your door open because someone sleeping in front of. Yes. Like, so many times you're like, I don't want to, like, ask this dude to move, but like, bro, you got to move. I got to open up shop today and they get all crazy on you when they get up. Yeah. You ready? But you tried to fight. You walking in the thing.

Yeah, yeah, I did it. Well, I don't help the situation, you know, just, like, kind of mess with them. I've calmed down a lot. Yeah yeah yeah. Yes yes. But you know, you're, you're messing with them and then they like papa and you're like, oh yeah. I thought you were strung out and like, you wouldn't be able to stand up and try to fight me. You stand up and you, you know.

Yeah, yeah. They're like two feet taller than you and a lot more aggressive than you. And I have nothing to lose. Yeah. Them. So your shops you've been focus on on American traditional. You know all your films American traditional and do you didn't start out tattooing like with your love for American traditional, right. Yeah.

Yeah. It was like it was like, how do you fall into that? Like when I started, all the stuff I liked in the magazines was new School. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was what was going on in the 20s, late 90s. You know, that's what I, you know, in high school I messed around with graffiti and stuff. So. Yeah, drawn to that. But then trying to think, well, during my apprenticeship, you know, Mike had Mike Stevens, my mentor, he had a bunch of flash on the walls, and I seemed to like, like the traditional more.

Yeah. And the black and gray stuff, like the Corey Miller stuff was awesome on the walls and. Yeah, yeah, no. But like, out of all the stuff, it seemed like the traditional was really cool. And I really understand it, you know? But then Ryan Downey, when I started hanging out with him and. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we let it put his pussycat.

Were you over there? Yeah, I ended up that pussycat. Yeah. Okay. I think that's where I first met you. Was. It was. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You would come by and participate in our art shows and style. Yeah. Which is awesome. And a cool thing to do in that community of tattooing. It's like, oh, especially like we're so competitive and yeah, we different shop. You're like, it's cool. You were always like open to like participate and stuff.

And as like sometimes when people all of a sudden take on that title of shop owner, it's like almost like they distance themselves up to feel like insecure or something. And you're like, dude, we can all still be homies and like, work together and help each other out. And it is weird though, right? It's almost like you become like shop owners will become like North Korea, you know, like the hermit kingdom. They don't want anyone to like, you know, they don't want their guys to associate with. Yeah, yeah. It's weird, especially old school like, oh, you know, my mentor was like that. Yeah.

I'm sure the younger shop owners are still maybe like, they believe too, that, you know, there's always hard feelings no matter what you do. Oh, yeah. They never leave on good terms for some reason. You try. Yeah. I remember Austin walking in one day in the back room, and, I don't remember who he was talking to. I just picked up on the conversation. As I walk in, he goes, I really like you.

He goes, you're going to hate me when you leave. But I really like you right now. And I don't remember who that was, but that's pretty funny thing to say. But it's very true. Yeah. And like how? Like dishonest a lot of guys can be when they leave. So it's like a two in town.

You almost guarantee you're not going to be friends because like a lot, most of the time they lie and they say, I'm going to go travel for a bit. Yeah. And then next week they're posting online that yeah, they're up the road and you're like, why can't you just be honest? Like I would have been I would have been annoyed. Yeah. But at least like you didn't have like we're not having sex, you know? I mean, you don't need to lie to me. You know, some chick I can.

It's hard to do. So true, man. I had so many, like, face to face conversations with somebody. Like, I just want to make sure we're cool or, you know, everything. Good. Like, I'm stoked to have you here, blah, blah, blah, two seconds and, like, literally like two days later, they're like, oh, yeah, I'm starting over here. And, I already have my own logos. And I did all my own stuff and you're like, okay, bro.

Like, so you already knew about all this? Obviously, two days ago when we had that conversation, you looked me in the eye and said, you're totally stoked and you can't wait to. I'm like, fucking fuck. And then like some of that, I wonder when that was going down at those particular times, if it was me, like like because like how I like, they probably saw how I reacted when other guys left. Yeah. You know, so maybe it was like, yeah, like, why would I be honest with this guy? He's going to be a dead no for sure. We.

Yeah, yeah, I was responsible for a lot of that too. Yeah. Yeah. I had no patience with lazy artists. People showing up late. Yeah, yeah. Which is pretty much every tattoo. Yeah.

I show up early. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I was like, you can't get here at noon. Are you kidding me? Yeah. You know, the week I worked in the work there before I did that, and I had to be at work at five in the morning, and I'd work from 5 to 1. And then I went and I apprenticed at Pricks Tattoo from one till 11. And then I got up and did it every day over and over, and it was like, how can you not get here at noon?

The crack at noon? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. You got, you have like I've heard. Do you have a relationship or I mean a reputation for running a pretty tight ship, right. I mean, your expectations for your artists are you have a kind of a nice. Yeah, that's probably why I said that. Like, I know of it was probably me, you know, but but but that's a good thing though.

Yeah. I, I don't know, treat it like a job. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Feel like a career that because it is you know, you've been so good to about you like it's obviously this culture that you built within your shop is, if you have downtime, like, you don't have downtime essentially. Like, if you're not tattooing your painting. Yeah.

That's a part of your culture that you built in your shop too, right? Yeah. Which, yeah, ours used to be real strong like that too. IPad kind of threw things off. But you've been able to, like, stick with this niche, this American traditional niche and keep all these great tattooers coming to you. It's really impressive. It's it's cool. And you've kept that same formula since day one, right?

Yeah. Like, I have a rule where, you have to initiate a flash every week. It doesn't have to be for the shop, you know, get be for yourself or whatever, but you have to paint a sheet of art because you need to say product. And you like, what are you selling? You know, hey, you know what? What you're up to. So you got like a studio for hours when they come in and like, show them or you know what? The internet, you know, put it online or whatnot.

And. Yeah. And so that's built up all the flash you have in the shop and everything. And I don't know, I just and I just give, give back to tattooing, you know, like if I could paint two sheets a week, someone gets paint one like I'm busy tattooing and running two shops and yeah, I'm a home life and all that, you know. Yeah, I would just sit here and you say just about everybody painting one sheet, and then you have these older sheets of people that maybe you cross paths with and maybe aren't, have the best relationship anymore, but you still take pride in having that sheet there because it's a part of the history and the culture of your, your shop. And, you know, I like that. It was it was cool. Yeah.

So I have sheets up of guys that I don't get along with anymore or whatnot. Yeah. Well but then as time goes on, those relationships. Yeah. Man did. Yeah. No. Like I have probably like 100 sheets of Ross Henry, you know, flash on the walls.

And for a while there, we didn't care for each other, you know. Yeah. Because he quit. He went on to do his own thing, which is like, no, you need to do. Yeah. I mean, at the time, I didn't understand it. And so like, we've, we've mended things since I still have all those sheets and they're really cool. Yeah.

So and we get the tattoo of them. So it's like you have like a even more of an, intense relationship with them because you've seen the ups and downs with that person and stuff. Yeah. And then like, they're still cool designs and people come. So. Yeah. And he's and he's cool too, you know what I mean? Like I just said, you know, you get hot headed and someone will wear emotional people or, you know, tattooers, I mean, we're artists and, you know, yeah, it just it just comes out.

So yeah, we're not all the best communicators. You. And sometimes it's like, it's not even that guy. It's the it's like the 20 people are left before them and they're just getting all of it because you, I don't know, got you on the wrong day or. Yeah. You know, like going into a relationship sour because you're actually I that quit before him was like a super tough guy and you couldn't yell at him. So this guy you're yelling at, you know, it's like, you know, just like the guys like men when they did, you know, doing for a guy, the Puerto Rico guy. Yeah.

Managing friends, relationships and in the business is a very difficult thing because, like, you fall in love with the people around you, you know, you can't help. But then you also, like, we're all have these strong personalities and where sometimes they start veering off on a different path. And yeah, that doesn't rub. You know, it doesn't. It's just not right with you. And then it's like you're trying to figure out how to like, jump in there and keep it together. And. Yeah, and then sometimes there's nothing you can obviously do about it.

Like they're just never trying to get on, keep my mouth shut and not say what was on my mind. So I would notice that I'm not talking to this guy for two weeks. Yeah. So he knows he's probably on the outs. You know, he I won't look at him. I won't talk to him because I don't want to cause a fractious in front of everybody. Yeah, well, I wasn't very good at that, but. Yeah.

Yeah, I've done that. But you give someone the cold shoulder and it's like, that's no way to work, right? No, no, you go to work. It's also like they're making a drop at the end of every day. So how how like horrible is effort that that guy, he's like, man, I could give this guy money when you fucking talk to me. Yes, I know for. Hey, thanks for checking out today's episode. If you're watching and listening, the chances are you're a tattoo artist who lives by their gear.

And if that's the case, doesn't it make sense to buy from people who actually understand tattooing? We built Maverick's Supply Co for this reason. Gear supplies, essentials built by Tattooers for Tattooers to see what we do. Scan the QR code on the screen and hit the link in the show notes below. Now back to the show. You said you used to, like you used to drink a lot more, and now you've been sober for seven years. Yeah. Is that something that you think has helped you out?

You know, you mentioned. Oh of course. Yeah. That in therapy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like I show up fresher every day. Yeah I show up like early instead of late.

Yeah. Now we get mad at people for being late. But I was late all the time. So there's like, almost like, have you later than me? You're in trouble. Yeah. You know, what the heck? I was, like, hung over.

Yeah. And. Yeah, but, like, I'm more productive. I, you know, come out. Oh. How many books since I think, ten books out, but I think I've come out. Nine of them since I quit drinking, so. Yeah.

Damn. Well, good for you, dude. You gotta focus your energy on something. So it's really impressive, right? Yeah. The goal is extra time. What am I going to do and know for sure? It is pretty wild how it.

Yeah, I haven't been sober for more than like two weeks. Maybe, but yeah, but you might not have a problem, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's drinking every day and way too much and it just it progressively got worse. And you know, like in the beginning it was like, you know, we early 2000 tattooing in Vegas. There was what, 20 shops. 30 shops.

Yeah. So that you would go out to a bar and you were almost like a to say it sounds dorky, but almost like a celebrity or a rock star. No, I know who I remember it, yeah. And then, you know, your party. I'm fun. And then I don't know, at one point, it just. So I stopped going to the bar. I just kept drinking at home, you know?

Yeah. I don't know when that happened and. Yeah. No, I remember those days. You walk into any restaurant and you, like, someone knows you or you know, the bartender or the manager. Food's getting sent over. Cocktails are covered. It was like a small town.

It was. It was like you were in a small town. Yeah. It was really hard to not go out to. Yeah. And and justify it by being like, well, this is how I meet people and this is how, like, people get to know me. So I'm constantly giving out this job. It did push my business for a real long time.

And then I noticed, like once I had kids and I didn't go out, then I'm like, oh shit. Yeah, now we have other tools. We have a social media. Totally. Yeah, you can do it all on the toilet. Yeah. And then how weird was it when you knew of a good tattooer but you never saw them out? Yeah, like Victor with mill.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was like a never met the guy. Yeah. Think. And, like, you know, his tattoos are great, but you never saw him out. Yeah. Can't Kelly like you would never see him out? No.

For sure. Oh he would run into him getting tattooed somewhere I like. That's how I watch him get tattooed by Chris Trevino at like a San Diego show one time. Oh, really? Oh my God. Yeah. It was like, fucking cool. Yeah, yeah.

You've worked with all of, like, the old school Vegas Tattoo works. A lot of them. So many fantastic tattooers came out of, Pussycat to. Yeah. Like, how was your experience over there? Who's amazing? Yeah, yeah, Dirk was awesome. Is still awesome.

Yeah, yeah. Dirk. Like he just when he hired me, he said, do good tattoos and pay your rent on time. That's so cool. And they're like. Like, can I go? I guess maybe like a salon where you just come and go, you pay rent and. Yeah, his thing was he just wanted to be able to have a custom shop.

That was good and not have to worry about, you know, people stealing from him and all that. And he just. Yeah, dude, that shop was like a breeding ground for all the good shops and down, you know, thousand percent. Yeah. Like Aaron Neiman has a shop. He worked there. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he a bunch of other people, you know.

Yeah. Friends. He was good to having, like, group art shows. And his band would play in that little tiny lobby and shit. That was like my first exposure to going to a tattoo shop, and it was just so much more than just a tattoo. The gallery. Go go go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, those are fun.

Yeah. You go crazy parties. Everybody was involved in the art shows. It was. Everybody signed the doors mirror. Yeah, yeah, the door in there with this pussy cat girl. Yeah. I started having people sign our door in our shop because of that.

Oh, cool. Like a lot of fans and doing the art shows and to was like, oh, wow, this is fucking cool, man. Like, I really want to do this. Yeah. You guys been doing event. You do events at you're like, you do your annual. Yeah. The shop on the anniversary party.

Yeah. Every year our fucking art show is on the same exact day this year. So we didn't get to go hang out of each other's things. Yeah, yeah. You've had an extensive amount of, like, guest spot artists to come through over the years. Oh, yeah. Like you're good at that. Yeah.

I don't I don't know how it happened. It just it just happens. And I'm very like loose with everything. I'm not very organized. So like I see these shops or they're always like promoting the guys on online that are coming in. And I'm like, sometimes they show up and there's a guest and I forgot that they were there to come in or, you know, especially if it's someone that's come through a bunch. Yeah, there's reach out to, you know, just a nick. And then he's like, yeah, come out or yeah, yeah, it's cool though.

It's I love it. And it's like it makes it to where all of us. It's like we're really motivated, like I guess like going and doing a guest spot, but we don't have to leave. So we got a new we can like feed off of and all that. Yeah. And and it's more connections, you know, it's like first you go. Yes. So their shop.

Yeah. Yeah that's cool. You doing both rental and you're sure you're. Yeah. We do the regular commission. Yeah. Yeah. You know I guess it's six one half dozen the other.

It depends on how you want to run it. You know, like you're saying. Yeah. Or like doing it that way. We just didn't ever want to want to do it, though. I mean, either I feel like I do a lot of merch, I do a lot of promoting and all that and like, yeah, then you make it where you probably wouldn't be able to do any of that. No, totally. You do great with your merch too.

It's always yeah, you always have like a good fun, like not what we would think of like tattoo or something. You know, you just have a lot of fun with it. Oh, I can't say I hate, but I really don't care for these days. The standard tattoo shirt where it's like they did it on Coke. Heel. It's one color. Yeah. You know, you can't tell what the fuck it is.

Yeah, yeah. But you got. Yeah, I do like more graphic design stuff for sure. It's stuff that reads well and actually sells. We spent so much money over the years designing our own shirts because we felt we were supposed to, and we had to, and they just never would sell and they would just look like shit. Yeah, I don't think, you know, well, luckily my mom like any of that, and she was I had a graphic design background, so she would bring in a lot more high quality, like more like readable or she's good looking. It's always so. Yeah, yeah.

I feel like if I wasn't a tattoo or a probably like, own a t shirt company or something. Yeah, yeah, I just love it. And I just it's it's art is fun. Yeah. My my iPad, I have a whole folder, probably like 300 designs of t shirts that are didn't make the cut or. Yeah. Do you design. Well, like most of them a lot of them.

Oh no shit. Okay. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. Well you, you work with like, blaze and like that blaze. I'm a handful. Yeah. Oh that's cool.

And other artists who I. Yeah. But, yeah, I just like, Well, I like bootleg stuff, you know? Yeah. I mean, like, I tell, I'll take some of an old matchbook and then turn it into a downtown shirt or something, you know? So, like, I just, I know I'm never not on my iPad, I guess, you know, I'm always, like, doodling or coming up or something. When you get into the iPad thing. Do you, do you remember, like, resistant?

Yeah. Yeah for sure. Yeah. It's. Yeah, it took me forever. I was the last guy on the iPad. Really? Yeah.

I remember we had this younger tattooer in there and he was like over there drawing on that thing, and I was like, what the fuck are you doing, man? Like and he's like, oh, just zoomed in and traced over and did this. And then I redid it. I was like, that's lame. Yeah. And then like two weeks later I was like, well, how did you do that? Like, you know, and then as soon as you play with it, it's fucking awesome. You know who got me into it was J swarm.

Oh, okay. So yeah, I originally got the iPad just so I could digitize my books and have them all in one spot. Yeah. And then J. We were, Oh, coming up with think it was just like a sticker design, and he was showing me he was helping me. And then I was like, this thing's actually useful because, you know, like, you come up with a design, you give it to the graphic design guy, and he always gets it wrong. Yeah. Because he doesn't, you know, he's nodding your head.

Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah J got like showed me the ropes on it and I started messing with it more. And now I just it's I just drawn I don't even have paper anymore. Yeah yeah yeah. You still paint a lot too. Yeah. Just like print out some of your drawings and then you'll hit them on your light table for painting.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That's right. I never have gotten used to doing just rough sketches on there. I'll take a just a notepad and do my rough. Oh, yeah. Take a picture of it, put it on my. Yeah.

It in. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. It's like now that works for me I yeah it's the rough sketch on the iPad for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. My hand doesn't want to. Yeah. It's it's like the tooth of the paper I guess.

Yeah. You know, just the texture of the paper when you're working on. Yeah. And then those, like the little film you could put on, I like, feels like that doesn't work. I tried that one. Gets a scene, people cough. Drop it. Yeah.

I'm not. So, like, back to, kind of your first kind of inspirations and getting into tattooing you, who who's your mentor? Is it Mike Stevens? Yeah, and he was a local dude. I remember that name, but I don't know if I can remember him. Yeah, I can't really name too. I know I was. Yeah, him when he first moved out here.

He worked at is either statues of us or Sin City. They change names at some point. Remember that. And, then he opened a shop called Tattoo Asylum. Yeah, it was originally Imagination Station, I believe. Or I actually think it was originally Star born on the East Side. Okay. 95 then I think it was Imagination Station and then.

Yes. Okay, I'm doing that. Shop's been so many things. Yeah. My, Frank black was a guy that only. Yeah. Spent a lot of time in prison. He had, like, his whole.

I was the first person I saw. His whole body was covered, like, really any. Yeah. No, no. Like bare spots. I remember talking to all those guys would come in and talk about about working at studio 21 at some point. Yeah. And so I interviewed a lot of them but never saw him again, but I yeah.

Oh he opened up after he came. They came in you know. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. I don't know always I heard you got like some tattoos by magic. Oh yeah. Yeah.

He was like, was he had a tattoo. It was a tattoo asylum. Was there a second location that was like on the Las Vegas Boulevard? Was that there was star born? Was there star born? I was getting tattooed. I got tattooed by magic. Had tattoos, were us originally.

And then he left there. I went to, Star Arbor. Okay. I got most of my tattoo that's around it. Yeah. Yep. Was your dad a tattooer? No.

I've sorted out here. No, I don't know, because he was. He was like, a little bit confused with. Someone told me a story about their dad. I can't remember who he was. No shop with, but that was somebody got shot in the leg accidentally. Oh, shit. Yeah, I know your dad for some reason.

Oh, somebody else I know whose dad was a tattooer. Oh, I never met. I don't like. Who was that guy? My dad had frozen food at Vons. Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah.

Oh, tattoos. Okay, well, that was a totally different story. Yeah, like if you were a young tattooer right now getting into it, like, is that what were you what would you do? Like where would you want to work or pussycat, I mean, yeah, no, I mean, if you think about it like, I don't know, is there like a, a place there that you would like to start around or something. Yeah. Oh, I kind of think about that sometimes. Yeah. You got so much deep roots in Vegas.

But I remember at one point in time I threw a fucking dart at a map and I was like, I'm going to move here and I'm going to be a tattooer here. And I ended up in Miami and I was like, I don't fucking, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. That's a that's a tough one. Yeah. Any city like yeah. When you tattoo people from all over the world, which we do, you do. Yeah.

You talk to people from everywhere. And many times I've had people go, I come here, I want to open a shop in, you know, Salem, Oregon. Oh, well, there's a lot of towns I can open your mouth. Why? Because I've never even been there. I think about it like spending a lot of time in San Diego. You know, there's so much great tattooing that came out of San Diego in the early 2000s. And like that just seemed to me like the most amazing place, like the way Aaron Dellavedova set up guru and stuff.

He would had a surfboard rack in the back so you could go down and surf in the morning, come in, draw and then do your tattoos. And then he even had like an apartment right above the shops where like he would rent that out to artists and I'm like, that always just seemed like, well, fucking that just seems like tattooing by the beach sounds nice. Yeah, that's a go. Yeah. I would work at Avalon when I first went in there and met them and I was like, oh, I'd like to work here. Oh, you're so nice. Yeah, it's just such a cool spot. Yeah.

Rest in peace, man. She just passed away. Did she? Yeah. Yeah. And flip is looking for right now. Somebody that went into her house and stole a bunch of, like, really, classic tattoo machines and pieces of art that found out that she passed. Oh, my real fucked up dude.

That's fucked. If anybody knows out there robbing that Dan lady, that's fucked up, dude. Yeah, terrible. Yeah, yeah. But that question, I don't know, I think it was Vegas, man. I know. Right? Like, I can't think of a better city to have learned tattooing.

I mean, yeah, I'm sure, you know, like San Francisco or like. Yeah. Yeah. But like, I don't know, I'm, I don't know, I just like how it all played out for me for sure. Dude, the I mean, even the location of the your Fremont Street shop, it's, it's, it's cleaned up so much nicer around there too. But it still has such a just a rich Vegas culture like, yeah, you know, the the fucking cool ass old motels all around there, the way you painted the front of your shop and the neon and everything, and it just. You built a good home. Yeah, well, you're going to be surprised when you go by there next.

Because all the motels. Because she just got demolished. Oh. What? Because I just was at the going to do that to Ferguson's there. Okay. All the, all the boarded up ones. Oh okay.

All I released. Oh they're all demolished. Yeah. Tony Shay by all those did nothing with them. The junkies got in there, stripped all the copper, caught them on fire. Oh. Damn. Oh, there's too far gone.

And isn't all that shit in probate right now, too, because, like, all that property, he died and didn't leave a fucking will. So there's a shit ton. But then they discovered a will. Really? Yeah. Discovered a will, like six months a year ago because his, like, his lawyer was so old, he didn't he forgot he did it or he didn't know that. Like he didn't know he died. Oh it's like was like someone mentioned it to him.

He's like, oh I have his will and so fucking. Yeah. So then now there's, it's a whole dude. The story of that whole thing of like Tony Shay coming into downtown and buying everything and then getting kind of strung out and like, losing his life was. That's a I always felt like he wanted to be Howard Hughes. I just felt like. But he was, like too dorky to really be Howard Hughes. And he was like, trying too hard.

Yeah, like it was. And then he was like, oh, I live a modest life. I live in a tiny home. Yeah, in a tiny home in the middle of downtown that you bought everything. Yeah. And like 42 other tiny homes. Right. So all your friends hung out?

Yeah. Like you like you're hoarding all kinds of stuff, like property and everything. Like you're so modestly. Yeah. Fuck, yeah. There's always some guy coming in from out of town and seeing downtown Vegas thinking they're going to. Yeah, revive it. You know, Bob snow, I don't know if you remember him, but he's the one that built the the station, the cement station, the main street, main Street station.

Yeah. Oh, and he it was a pilot. And he would drag the banners and fly around town. This was back, I don't know, you guys were a little kids, I think, and he would fly, you know, Main Street station and that he was a big promoter and he but he did everything himself. And I thought that was a really cool property. Was really fun to go in there and have dinner and a train car and stuff. But it failed. I mean, it just seen so many people come in there and put a bunch of money in and then leave.

They just, yeah, go with them. Leave the way Tony left the house down. Whippets. Yeah. Well, his thing was like when he was buying everything, I would, I would read every article that would get published. He was like interviewed and everything was like, we're gonna do this like the Bay area. We're gonna do this like San Francisco, my vacation zone identity. Yeah, yeah.

You cannot replicate the Bay Area in Las Vegas. You want to be like the Bay area, actually. And it's like what the container park was, Oh, this outdoor mall. I mean, are you an idiot? Like. Yeah, it's like a 525 degree, you know? So these people. Yeah, they're all steel boxes, full sun exposure.

Nobody seems to learn that building things in Las Vegas. Like you need fucking shade, man. Like, here's the face. East. Yeah. If you have some face in West, You're screwed. Yeah, you're you're French. Whereas when we look for a shop location.

God, Becky and I would drive and drive and look and look. And we always wanted to corner, you know, try to find a nice corner every time you did find a corner. So. Yeah. Me either a black CVS would be there or whatever, but, just trying to find that perfect spot. But you didn't want anything facing west because hot as shit in there. Yeah. When you pay, we go to.

I don't even go there in the afternoon. Yeah, yeah. Because it's too hot to get. You have to wait for my first location. We were facing the window. We were on a corner and it was like west. Yeah, yeah. And if, like, you know, like that certain times a year where you, like, kick the AC down in the evening.

Yeah. Well, I tell the guys, crank that shit up before you leave because the next day it would be so hot. He would never keep up. You were literally in a glass box. I remember that you had east and, south facing windows. Right. So the sun was all day long. All day.

Well, you're in a good spot now. Facing north. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's it's really nice of you. Yeah, yeah. Somebody on both sides.

You with air conditioners? Yeah, exactly. And, oh, I was I think two is just the first location. The restaurant next to me moved out and there. So their air conditioning wasn't like, well, no one's running the air conditioner. I had this, like, candle. It's like one of those, like, you know, like a hand like that. Yeah.

And it was on a shelf. And I just watched all summer long, I think, just slowly melt because it was like next to that wall. Yeah. You could touch the wall. It was hot. Dude. Tattooing when their AC is out is no joke. Brewing in the summertime is here.

The sweat just dripping off your nose and you trying to like, do everything you can. Like first time making. I took a trip with the kids after we moved here in 89, and, we had a she she, you know, decorates those candles everywhere. Took a trip, came home, we turn the air conditioning off to leave. I didn't think about that. You don't turn it off when it's 120. Outside came home. All the candles like this, the.

Yeah. Everything in the house was melted. Droopy shit that. We won't do that again. So, you know, I took it to 85 or 90 or something, and 9090s. Cool. Compared to what it gets. If you, if you turn it off, you know what it is.

I don't know why I was randomly thinking about this. I started to look up like your Yelp reviews on your shop and your responses are fucking funny, dude. You bite back. And that's something that I didn't stop doing that really good. Yeah. So, like, for a long time, it was just your shop. And my shop were top rated on Yelp. Yeah, I think you were hip to it.

Right. Like, for me and then. Yeah. And like, because we was closed. So when we first opened in 2008, the recession. Yeah. And then Yelp called in there like, you know, trying to pitch me on. And I was like, I don't know.

I was like, oh, I have 300 bucks left. Yeah. So like, I'll advertise for 300 bucks. And like, we were really close to like, really? Yeah. Because it was just dead, you know. Yeah. And then you started getting all these, like, little tattoos come through, or these women or you guys that wouldn't, like, normally get tattooed.

They came in, they would leave us reviews. And so I, oh I was always watching Yelp. I always knew you guys were like, yeah, there was. Yeah for sure. But then like being the, you know, I don't know young jerk. And I was, I would, you know, someone leave a bad review and I would just talk shit. And it was funny for, you know, to read, but it wasn't funny when some lady left us a bad review because she, like, supposedly got an infection. Oh, God.

Yeah. What she did. You know, you're in the hospital or whatever, but I it wasn't from the tattoo. I think she just blamed it on the shit tattooed and then go fucking swimming on our ankle. Yeah. So I see you touch it. Yeah. I think it was the only time I can think of that.

We had somebody contact us that had an infection. They got tattooed and they walked down the street all day sweating and, you know, kicking up dirt on it, and, they got an infection. Fortunately, she was a nurse, and we didn't have any kind of issues. And she called just us. Tell us it happened. And I really appreciate you, but we're talking about responding to. What did she. Yeah.

Did she come back? So I looked at her review. So she's she's that to you know. And I looked at her other reviews. She got an infection from pedicure. So part of my thing was like, it looks like you're prone to infection as a total jerk to her, right? I should have just, like, called her. I think she ain't even called the shot.

What? Oh, wow. And I was out of town, so, like, just total dick about it, right? And then she sued us. Oh, get the fancy one. Yeah. So, like, our deductible was 500 bucks, but she won. I think her settlement was, like, 40 grand.

Whoa. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Wow. Damn. I'm okay. So then you just straight stopped with the responding.

Yeah. I was like, I'm going to be nice to people. Come here. Oh, yeah. That's just what I used to do. I if I saw a bad review, I would find out what their email address is because you can. Yeah. Backdoor to their email address.

And I would send them an email and go, hey, I'm a owner. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience. What can I do to make it better? You know, and nine times out of ten, that review was gone. Yeah. Just for responding. Yeah. I didn't have to do anything.

I think once I had to get somebody in Seattle to, fix somebody's tattoo. Oh, yeah. So nice. But it was like, you know, you just call them up and go, hey, I got this client. I'll pay you to fix it for them. Yeah, so they don't have to come. They're not coming back to Vegas. That's actually smart.

Because if. Yeah, that's that happened. So that was our what was the grounds of suing like the in fact like she claimed the infection and then what. Yeah. But like I yeah I, I'm, I 100% confidence in the guy that did the tattoo. Yeah. He did not give her an infection. Yeah for sure.

You know what I mean. There was well her claim I might I said you know, was. Yeah was ridiculous. And so, like, there's no way he did what she said he did. Yeah. And to give her an infection and like, having seen that her other views, like with a pedicure, she had an infection. Think she might have been prone to it, but yeah, I don't know, like even our you went back and looked at her reviews and she was writing bad reviews on other people. Yeah.

Oh that's right. That's usually how it works. Like the people that are leaving the bad reviews, that's all they really bad. Our first bad review, the I never forget her name. Sure. Her name was Miss Good Katie. She was from Southern California. Oh, she just ripped us a new one.

If she wouldn't. And I've tried, you know, solving the problem with her, right? Never, never would take it. That was always a first, first review that shows up, you know, terrible review. Oh, and then she didn't even get tattooed at our shop. She came in and she said she had an appointment, but she hadn't made an appointment. She had just talked about making an appointment. So she comes in, doesn't get to get tattooed, says we're in the ghetto and we're just writes all this shit about us sharing a tattoo there I to.

Yeah, of all of our our reviews was a customer who never got a tattoo. I had one of those where the gal showed up and everyone was tattooing and was annoyed that she had to wait a couple minutes for that. But we always acknowledge people. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Oh, they they said they'd be here and it took two minutes to get to me or whatever. We they didn't have a counter version as like, so I was obviously was a smartass.

Yeah. I read that one just this morning. Yeah. Yeah. So you don't know what. Yeah. So I'm better about that. Yeah.

Yeah. My favorite one was the white tattoo one. You were like, I don't know what she was bitching about. She just wanted to get a white tattoo and they wouldn't do, I don't know, something like I think she got it, but then they like what we didn't do her skin, like, totally. Yeah, like a white. Had to. But she left a bad review and but she gets on there. It's like once you grow the balls enough to get a real tattoo.

Was black lines at the rest of the world can see it. So I don't know. I just thought it was fucking funny. And now I have to go on a Ranger route. And those are lies. Old as fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're still on it, but they'll they'll allow a battery of you to stay up there. But then they filter all these.

Good one. Yeah, yeah. Oh it's such a fucking silly. I mean yeah. Weird like. Yeah. Because we didn't pay any advertising ever. Really.

With anything. Yeah. We just the. Well, it seemed like a card to me. A conflict of interest for y'all to be using you. They're using. Yeah, yeah. You're business and they want you to pay them.

Yeah. It just I could never. It's ridiculous. But then they just started pulling some mafioso shit and they just, like, pull all your reviews back and funnel you down to the bottom. And then once you pay, then it like, puts you out. You're like, you have all this time and energy put into those reviews and there's like a huge value there. But then now you have to pay them to fucking get people to see it. It's real frustrating, but I don't, I don't pay, I haven't paid them in years.

Yeah, yeah, I heard that. Like was it Google tried to buy them and they refused. Really. Google came out with their own reviews and then that's what everyone goes on Google reviews. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah we do way better off of Google reviews. Yeah actually. Yeah. So Yelp is like kind of nothing now seems.

Yeah, yeah. We still we still it's almost like the, the second level of checking in on your business. They go they see the Google and then they'll jump over to Yelp and then even Google though now it's like we have I think more we got on that early like you said, like I went to San Francisco and I learned about Yelp and like the the review culture even thing, you know, and then I so I built all that out for a shop like right when I got back and then we, we got on and it started getting a lot of work off of it, you know, like you said. But yeah. So you haven't paid and you don't advertise at all. Right. No. Because it's it seems pointless at this point.

Yeah. Like you're paying a company that used to be big. Yeah. You know, like, what are you going to do for me. Like. Yeah. Are you going to help my Google reviews? Because yeah.

Yeah. It does seem like Google reviews took over. Yeah, I still use Yelp when I travel and stuff I like I do for like, I mean for the restaurants. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, almost 100%. You can count on those. But I don't know about tattoo shops.

I love sitting in your shop though, and watching all the people walk in like you're in such a great location. It's so cool. We don't get like that walk in traffic anymore, like we used to back in the day. But I mean, we we do, but it's not like as hours as they're dropping them off, you know. Yeah. Like bring people up or whatever. But they're walk ins but they're not I like this, I like to use like on the street corner and you're like, you can sit out front and watch people walk by. It just feels I don't know, it's just it's awful.

And like I said, that's a nice vibe to. Yeah for sure. And you get the keys to walk into in the fucking weirdos and shit. That's a fun part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you can kind of tell pretty quickly, like if they're there for the right reasons and stuff. Oh it's fun. It's they're wearing a backpack.

They're they're not, they're, they're good. Oh good backpack. So shit man what do you got. You got some like, ideas. You want to just continue to do books and build shops. You ever going to do three shops? No no no no I'll chop. Yeah.

You got a good formula right. That's what I want anymore. Yeah fine. Any more investments? Maybe I'll try like a rental property or something. Yes. That sounds like anything they ask to. Yes it is totally more book.

So eventually. But I think it'll be more like historical stuff. Like. Yeah, yeah, like the Grimm book you put out was more like their name in. Yeah, that was great. Mainly our collections and then a few other people contributed. That book was was awesome. That's cool.

So everything in there is actually out of your your collection. And yeah, you when you look at the book like in the beginning gives credits to who? All consumers. Yeah. Yeah. But like most of its majority Aaron they're me and then yeah everyone else contributed like dang do you do you ever think you would want to like, kind of put some of your collection together in a place where people can view it? Yeah, yeah, I have it at Fremont Street. Oh well, yeah, I guess, yeah, that's all the stuff.

You have it up and now everything. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. I, there's so much to look at in there. Yeah. Recently went to the Salt Lake City Tattoo Museum, so. Yeah, Fishburne owns, No shit.

Yeah, he just turned his shop into a museum. Well, he opened a second location. In that location is a museum that they also tattoo other. Really? It's beautiful and, like. So I was getting ideas. Yeah. I just don't know, like, my whole collection is just flash and acetate stencils.

Yeah. It's kind of making a comeback right now in good time. Charlie. So he just opened a shop and it's a museum basically. Yeah. That's cool. You got all this. Like, now we have just this rich history and now the idea that you can display it.

And then so many people are into tattooing now and educated about it. And to come and learn and view is cool. I wish I had grabbed all of Phil Luxe stuff when he was selling. He has so much like all that stuff back in the days I never ever seen. But like he got rid of them all. I think he sold them all thing. Well, that's cool though. Yeah, yeah.

So what do you have to do to call your place a museum? Well, I was talking. Was he. He's like, unless you want like, the tax benefits. I think you just call it a museum over here for your personal collection. That's cool. But I don't know if I'd have to, like, restructure and, like, display more of it in the front or. So I'm brainstorming.

Yeah. Is there museum police to come in private and. Yeah. Yeah, I know you can get grants and stuff, but that seems like a lot more work than I'm willing to. That's the deal with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just would. It'd be cool to be able government. Yeah.

You don't want to deal with the government. Yeah. It'd be cool to say like downtown tax you home of that last year. That's amazing. But yeah you know I have no idea. I would like to, but yeah, you should. I'm not going to know. I heard ChatGPT is super good at building grants or writing grants.

Like, I was interviewing the principal of this school that there's like a charter school the other day, and he's like, I'll just use GPT to write all my grants. Like, what the fuck? That's it might be something to look into. Yeah, I'd like to help you out, but I would probably have to move a lot of that vintage stuff toward the front of the shops. Yeah. You know, so that's a and then label things. So yeah. Because I don't think I would want to like have to stop every time someone came in and like totally explain everything.

Yeah. Yeah. You want to get, you know, put a little nametag on and just stand there with a little Mike Tyson volunteer docents or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I need to, like, also expand my collection more too. Yeah, I do have do you have room down there to expand if you, if you want to know. No. There's a wedding. Yeah.

You can either side. Yeah. But also like we have some which is great for business right. Yeah I do it. And he says he does good. Yeah I bet. Yeah I would think yeah. I mean people come to Vegas, get married and get I lived right above that.

Some of those wedding chapels when I was down there. So you know. Yeah it fun, fun to watch them too, you know. Well, I love that they're always out there taking pictures in front of a shop. Like, there's so many people that are getting their wedding photos, like, just even a couple shots out of their collection. Yeah, right in front of a shop. Even if they don't get tattooed, they're like, our shop is still because we have the neon. Yeah.

So they do take pictures there. I and they walk in and we're all well trained on it too. Like we you could tell if they want to take pictures so. Well I'll come take pictures and we'll move out of the way. Oh cool. Yeah. That's like always tagging us on wedding flash in there at all. We do?

Yeah, but you do? Yeah. We have, a lot of bills and that sort of thing, like some deals with them too. Yeah, because like the the chapel next door, they have like a whole kind of theme going on. And, we've painted designs around that. Yeah. Of course. Yeah.

That's cool. Yeah, yeah. What's good, like working with your neighbors to, you know, good neighbors to have. Yeah. Yeah. We always try to set up near a good kind of a bar. Our first one with a royal frog. Wait, I remember that.

Well, which is like the craziest place ever. And, turned out it wasn't really a bar. I found out later on, but I'm more totally, Okay. But, anyway, it was, interesting. So that's why we we set up next to Jackson's over there. Oh, are now super nice guy who. We've always had a good relationship with him as a neighbor. Yeah, ours are the best to be.

That's cool. Yeah. It's good to have, like, community, too. And, like, network with your other small businesses around there. Yeah. You have your parties to. You have to send everybody over there. You ready to go home?

Go to law. Yeah. You still host your anniversary party in the whole back parking lot? Yeah. The cars. It's all private now, right? Yeah. So you have a lot less, like, weird traffic coming through because they gated it all up?

No. So the landlord did that because we were like people as things are been developing downtown. Yeah. People park in our parking lot and go walk up to the other businesses. So we tried to strike a deal with, with, downtown project, where, like, you pay X amount, and that helps, like, me maintain the lot. And it was nothing. It was like 300 bucks. Yeah.

He was I think that he was asking them and they refuse. She's like, well, sure, I'm gonna put up the the pay parking and we all get we all validate. Yeah. So we don't have to pay, you know, professors we have to pay. But yeah, they're like instead of paying him 300 bucks to like, help him clean up the garbage at all, the people leave. They screwed themselves. But yeah. So now when we have our event, he just makes it to where you can't open those gates to where the school.

They'll leave. But no, no new cars could come in. And he's he's awesome. So good idea. How long you been tattooing now? Next month will be 25 years. They come I you you you know more than me. Yeah.

I've been, like, light on my tattooing this last year, but, yeah, I started tattooing in 2000. Okay. I was 2001. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. So why I teach art at the same time. Yeah, yeah. So he didn't start tattoo until he was, like, in his 40s. That's awesome.

Yeah. Sorry. Like crazy. Right? Right. It's basically six months behind him. I finished my apprenticeship and. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't start. I had a full career before that. Yeah. So what'd you do? Land surveyor or civil engineering? Oh, cool.

Yeah, it was so totally different, you know? Yeah. Super corporate thing is, I still have dreams about being a land surveyor and working on these projects. But I never have dreams about tattooing. It's. Yeah, I don't know what I do. That's just very strange. You ever have nightmares?

Like, I think it might be nightmares is like, I don't want to. Yeah. When I was working a whole lot, I remember, like, having these nightmares of me, like, all of a sudden realizing I didn't have gloves on while I was tattooing or. I don't know why. It was like, you know, sometimes these dreams are just so real. But feeling how awkward it feels like to touch a steel tube without any fucking latex in between you, is just like the strangest feeling of you're not used to it. And I remember like, having these nightmares of, like or just like realizing like it you're talking about. I just said I never have dreams about it.

But I do think I do have dreams about tattooing without gloves and gloves on, and or I just get a line and, you know, it's like it's just fucking going and it's like you're trying to fight, but your arms are just like water, you know? Yeah, yeah. I just remember having those dreams a lot like you. I was just working six, seven days a week and just trying to, like, deal with, when you first started with your first business, did you work seven days a week? Yeah. So should we. We. Yeah, yeah.

Our goal, we did seven days a week, 12 hours a day, and we made it seven months. And we finally decided it went to six days a week and rotated one day off for him and then one day off for me. But that's how we hit it. We just hit it hard, you know, hard for the first couple of years and then. Yeah, but like when you open any business, like, you should want to do that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I feel.

Yeah, actually, I don't feel like I've worked since I got out of the engineering business after that, I've basically been retired. But yeah, I just had fun, been doing what I wanted to do. Yeah. You know, I think I always wanted to have my dad didn't have a business or anything. He worked for a big corporation and when he finished up, they shit on him after, you know, 30 years of working for him. And I was like, I don't I don't want my kids to have to. I want to have a business with my family. And so that's what we're doing.

That's how we can I mean, that's part of how that happened. Originally, I got my first tattoo. Austin was he was ten years old with me, two daughters. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Boulder highway to G dude. Yeah. We he went out there with me twice, and the second time he watched the whole process and everything, we walked down the parking lot.

I go, we should tattoo together. He was ten. Yeah, I was 19. We started tattooing together. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was already in our head that far back.

That was like maybe an 89 or 90 when we started thinking about wanting to get into his awesome, almost wish. You know, sometimes I think, I mean, I could have done it any time, right? I could have done it in Houston before we came out here. But had I done it in Houston, I probably would have been finished way earlier and gotten out of it or killed myself doing drugs or something. Yeah, that's possible. I feel that way too, because, like, when I was 18, I got offered an apprenticeship. Sincerely tattoo. My friend Nick, who got me ended up getting my apprenticeship at tattoo.

So I'm. He said I could get you in, and I, I was like, I had done, I'm out of my house in high school, and I hated it. It was so frustrating. I was like, no, you know, blah, blah, and then worked some real jobs and realized and then hung out and tattoo shops enough. I was like, I kind of want this, you know? And then I got in, but if I would have done it, then I like first of all, like some of the guys I would have been exposed to, like, I'm some of those dudes. Rougher crowd. Yeah, it was a rougher crowd.

And some of the dudes died. They overdosed and stuff like that. And like, I wouldn't have been exposed to the the tattoos I was exposed to. And so I'm kind of grateful or very grateful that I didn't jump on that. I think we got into a perfect time. Yes. Really. Actually, I think I would have, I definitely, especially because when I was young, it was a good time because prior to that, the tattoos were pretty rough and.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there wasn't shit for competition really either. You know, like when we open, you know, you opened a little later than us, but like, when we opened, like, there was only a couple people our age learning how to tattoo in town. And then when we opened, it was like I was the tattooer for all of my friends circles and their friends. You know, it was a and then it's progressively more of like my acquaintances and friends got in and started infiltrating my circles. And then it was just like, dude, you did it. Now it's like, I don't even know who tattoos in this town.

Sometimes it's really difficult. We feel there was a point where we knew everybody was into the cooler community, too. I always say cooler, but like it was, you know, you knew everyone that that tattooed and the or you knew of them. Yeah. Those, those rare guys that didn't go out there kind of hermits. They, you knew of them. You saw that work around and you could tell too. But yeah.

Like it it was cool. Like being able to experience, like less shops. Anything. But it's still cool. Yeah. It's like feel like I love. I think it's cooler now. Yeah.

Well, yeah. Yeah. You will. You see, you got some, like, some deep roots in it too. You know, the way you're doing it too, you know. Yeah. The way you're doing it is cooler. That's what makes it cooler, I think.

Yeah. I think it's cool. Like the three of us started, like, at a, like a time where it was like, we got that experience, you know, and like, the guys are getting to now are getting a different experience. It's going to be cool. They're gonna, in 25 years, be sitting there talking with each other and thinking, man, that was so cool. Yeah. These guys, you know, these guys don't know what they missed out on. It's going to just keep happening.

Yeah. And the guys 25 years before us, we're saying the same shit about us. You know. Yeah. Yeah I remember we were in Washington and Austin and I went up to, Vancouver, Washington, and I. Somebody contacted me to do a convention up there and City of Vancouver. C.. I haven't been there in a while.

And she sends me, you mailbag. She goes, I'm sorry. We're in Vancouver, Washington. Are you still coming? Yeah. I was like, fuck yeah, we're still coming. So we came anyway. Li'l turtle was there, and I had, I don't know if you ever saw our penny smasher.

Oh, yeah. We have three designs on there, and I thought, this is pretty unique. I've never known a tattoo shop that had a penny smasher. So when in Vegas, from a lot of people smash penny let it's a out of money. But it's a funny thing I love I've always got your pennies. Yeah, I've always collected the pennies. I still like how I talk Becky into it. I said, you know, have you ever seen a business with a penny smasher go out of business like the Grand Canyon or Disneyland?

And she's like, no, that's a you're you're right. That's so great. Know, with Grand Canyon still in business. Surprising. Can it be a business forever? So. But, Lyle came up to our table. I used to spread those out at the convention.

That smash hundreds of and just spread them out. Yeah, and people were just amazed that there were free. They would come out and look at them and. Are these free and like, yeah, take one. You know, take a couple of whatever. And, you know, they got and it said World Famous studio 21 tattoo. And in my opinion, we were world famous. We were people from Las Vegas tattooing beautiful and had been for a long time.

Lyle comes up and I knew he had a penny smasher. He had a story about his penny smasher, but he didn't say it. Picks his penny up. It looks at it, looks around, throws it back down like he's mad and looks at me and walks off on his cane and I walk over to excuse me there, Mr. Tuttle, I said, I see you didn't. You didn't like my penny? Yes. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you with that.

Anyway, he stops and starts talking to me about it. So somebody had stolen his penny smasher. Come to find out, Phil Luck knew where it was. It was in New York somewhere. And, so that's what he was mad about when somebody stole his. He was the first guy I tattoo show up to have a penny smasher. Oh, shit. And so he wasn't upset with us for coffee and his idea?

I didn't know he had Penny's measure. I was still got one anyway, but, It was. It was pretty funny just watching his face, and I was like, wonder what? Wonder what pissed him off about the penny smash? You just passed away a couple of years ago. Why did they just. Oh, must be there, like an anniversary post or something. I don't know why.

I'd. Yeah, because I like total. Yeah. Someone's running his, count. Okay. Yeah. I makes it look like he. Sometimes you wonder if he's like.

Yeah. Like, how's your body doing with tattooing over the years? You rest. You were having issues with your carpal tunnel and then his elbow. My. Yeah. My hands always ache. That's never going to stop my ass.

My hands right back hurts right now. Yeah. No doubt. I should I should be switching to those, like, pen. Yeah. You know, I just can't really. Okay. Yeah.

I can't get the hang of them. Yeah. Dude, I got one of those little skinny pens I guess it's awesome. Found them. I just bought some because it was weird. Yeah, it was like a Chinese manufacturer. I'm a skinny. It's a it's a tattoo machine.

Only like this fucking big. It's so weird. How is it? The tattoo on the fucking wrist due to three hours, just nonstop. It has the little battery pack. The plugs are. You know, you can get any RCA plug in the back, and then you wrap it and. And the damn things like just the battery pack kind of rests right here.

It's unbelievable. It's pretty weird. It's it's it makes no noise. Yeah. I don't fucking even the rotary machines are anywhere. I went straight from coil machine to this little pin. No, I tried one other, I use them like the Blitz rotaries and, neo tat rotaries and the shag belts. I'll use those for years, and I really like those.

That was my first kind of step away. You know why I didn't use those? It made me mad when I'd walk into the shop and it got quiet. Yeah. Fucking hate it. Still this day we have one guy that use coils, and I just like, a warm blanket feeling. You know what I'm like. And thank him every.

Yeah, I walk through there, I'm like, Josh, I love the sound of the. Yeah, I fucking hate when it's slow or it feels slow. Everyone can be tattooing and it feels fucking dead. I'm like, yeah. Or. And then people got their headphones on. It's just like the newer kind of thing. I'm like, that's artists.

But the, you know, like even the clients, like they'll come in and put their headphones on and look at their, I don't really like, sound like a tattoo convention when you walk into the shop. And it was. Yeah. Oh, from noon until fucking midnight. Know. Yeah. All that. Pretty much everybody in the shop still use coils, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I occasionally get, like a guest that'll come through on how they use the pen. The old dildo you like. You almost like you're cautious because you don't want to bump into their table or whatever. Because you don't you forget to their tattoo. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't know if they're pulling a line right. I did I do have a pen that I tried a few times and I worked on this dude's back the other day. But they're like, got quite a bit of work with this. With them. Yeah. Look, it's just a man. Yeah, yeah, it you just fuck the car. It was the.

I was giving it. Yeah, just doing it. It's like I don't feel like. Because I was just packing solid. Yeah. Was fast. So that was. That was easy.

And I saw I healed recently like oh that actually worked out. Yeah. But like trying to whip I can't get the hang of that. And line work is fucking I don't know every time. Yeah yeah I do, I do took right to it. I love that thing. Yeah I didn't I want to try it on anybody. So I have this, guy that I'm an attorney that I tattoo in exchange for legal work.

You know, and I called him up and said, hey, you want to own a free tattoo? I want to try this machine, and I don't want to try. I've tried it on myself, but I don't wanna try it on anybody else until I, you know, try it out. So he had this rocket piece. Real cool. Traditional, but not the. The piece was. I did a traditional, but I with the thing out did it in about two hours.

Pretty good sized piece on his thigh. And I looked at it. I was like, that thing looks awesome. I wonder how it's going to heal. Yeah. I said, okay, let me know, you know, send me a picture in a couple of weeks. So when it heals four days later, it's frickin healed. And he goes, this thing is unbelievable.

It still looks just amazing. Weird. How does it how does it work? Did you ever get into building tattoo machines? No, but I did. Even with Ryan, I helped, down in the in our garage. Yeah, he was building machines. I've.

I think I've touched, like, helped make every part of a machine. Yeah, but not the whole. Just something that never really boils and. Yeah. Yeah, that's a fun process to go like that. Yeah. For a couple. Right.

The. I never build machines, but, Travis. Travis in Florida. Yeah. Crazy. I don't know how to pronounce this cage machines again. We had this fight. Fight?

Ring bell. I don't know if you've seen it in our shop, but it's a, you know, it was in a in a school or. Oh, okay. Yeah. At the boxing ring bell. They kind of like one of these. But yeah it was fucking huge. It's pretty run.

I found it at an antique store somewhere or something. And Travis goes, let's, let's rebuild that thing and make it run. Let's look. Yeah, that'd be cool. So I helped him do that, help me wrap the coils and stuff on it. Giant coils. They're like this big around this layer. And, but I have a little button under the counter in there.

You can just push the button and ring the bell. That's awesome. And it just is way cool. Yeah, yeah, it was fun. A fun little project. That's my only experience with wrapping coils of what people do. But I never did it myself. Yeah.

Shit, man, I don't I don't want to keep you all day, but, I'm just like, I was just real pumped to sit down with you and, thank you for taking the time. Yeah, thanks for having me. And, I don't know, man. Anything else you want to tell us? He will drop some knowledge on some, young tattooers. Have fun. Yeah. Be my only advice.

I wouldn't I wouldn't do anything different enough. Yeah, and a lot of fun and tattooing and everything. I guess the vice, I would say is what Roger says. Take care of tattoo and tattoo will take care of you. Yeah, because, you know, none of us deserve this. It's so great, dude. You just take care of it, and it'll. It'll take care of it.

Yeah, yeah. If you're doing something you like, it's like being a musician or whatever. You're doing something you like. You probably could do it forever, you know? Yeah. The hands may be given out. I don't know, my hands hurt, but not as much as when I was tattooing older. Yeah, they still hurt.

Yeah. I figure maybe, maybe start shading with that. Yeah. Weird ass you should try doing just. Yeah, yeah, I'll bring mine by and let you borrow it if you want. Yeah, yeah. You could do his tattoo with it. Yeah I know, yeah.

So. Well, shit. How does everybody find you? Were, just on Instagram, buddy. Holiday? Yeah. It's downtown tattoo Las Vegas. I think it's all I have is Instagram.

So. Yeah. Downtown tattoo, Las Vegas, downtown tattoo. Henderson. Yeah. Instagram. Yeah. So you have three different Instagram.

So you can have mine and then the two shops. Yeah. Yeah. Well thank you dude, I appreciate it. You're somebody that I've always admired in our city and just I absolutely love your shops. And I can't wait to come back down there. I want to do some, like, video stuff walking through and everything. Thank you.

Yeah. Really cool time. Yeah. I'll actually have to show you all the the old flash. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you've seen it, but it's probably just blends in with like, everything else. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Well, thank you guys for tuning in. Really appreciate all the support. Everything. Like jump on there, subscribe, do all the things. If you could have greatly appreciate it. We, we're not having a good time doing this. And we're coming up on almost, like 20 episodes of 20. Something episodes.

So, we're trying to fine tune it and put a little more out there and, just so grateful that, like so many fantastic tattooers have been able to come by and sit down with us. So thank you guys and have a good one. All right. Peace.