I feel like that's the problem with tattoo is is you get pigeon hold and you just kind of stay there until it pushes you out of the business because you're sick and tired of like we have the ability to change we have the ability to go you know what I'm okay with this I'd like to try this I'd like to work on this I'd like to do that and that's another thing is like with Instagram you have the opportunity to be more than one person what's happening everybody Welcome to support your local tattoo I'm Austin Spencer today's guest is awesome today's guest is not only the oldest tattoo alive he's one of my favorite people fantastic illustrator tattoo collector my personal historian of tattooing my go-to my plug Phil luck he the man what's happening say yeah how are you dude thanks for coming down I'm psych to be you I'm glad we finally connected on this we've been talking about it for a while so we squeaked you in here you're you're just in town for like the week two weeks home and then I'm back to New York so you've been doing Road road work back to New York now no more road work just New York and then I come home okay like one shop or you got two or three shop just just scenes just scenes yeah okay well that's awesome then last year I tried last year I spread myself too thin drove myself up a wall so this year it's just just seemes cruising yeah yeah and you you've only been tattooing a couple years right yeah yeah I got a few months on my belt you know what you think

about coil tattoo machines or you seen them before yeah you want to try those out yeah so heard a couple of good things well man you're uh I'm your hands down like one of my favorite dudes I appreciate that I love heing that your we we had some fun stories uh some history I think I've fired you and hired you like 12 times no you never fired I nevered my dad told me the other day like bro we fired him like 12 times and then you know my dad stories get super aggressive no I never got fire I don't remember that so funny cuz I talked to my dad years I got reprimanded for coming in late I think twice that's good s years that's it that's good yeah we had a time together man and it was always fun my my dad was telling me too the other day about this the story of when my sister she used to manage the front counter had you put your hand on the Bible and that was when I came back yeah I had I had to make a whole bunch of swears then I wouldn't mess with any of the floor girls show up on time it never happened it never happened I'm late all the time I got a good reason to be late you know my late story if I was on time I would have been in the World Trade Center when 9/11 happened that's a big deal 15 minutes late for everything all the time if I would have been on time I would have been dead this is the that I go with I can't possibly skip that story so what yeah that's a real story yeah yeah I was on my way to redo my board of health certificate it was and uh me and my buddy Ralphie

was supposed to meet up at that time we never called it the World Trade after you called it the Twin Towers oh okay and we were supposed to meet up at the Twin Towers I was running late he beeped me it was before cell phones yeah and he was like turn around man plane just flew into the Twin Towers what the so that's my excuse for always being late now for on time it was meant to be me to be damn that gives me a chill that's crazy yeah you have you have we have so many more stories to jump into um so one thing we like to do is I know you've got a fun origin story but we kind of always like to hear like where the hell did you come from like how this is going back to like tattooing was illegal right before when you were getting into it like how for me it was and that's why I have such a hard time these days because it's so mainstream CU I got into it for the taboo aspect you know what I mean I got tattooed to keep people the away from me not to have everyone come up to me in Walmart and go do you tattoo are you cheap like I did it to keep people away from me this was my armor you know and these days it's kind of backfiring facts facts I want to get the removed nobody even pays attention um I don't even know like it doesn't even still it's still to me it don't make sense to how I got in the tattoo one because it was impossible to find yeah you know there was no there was no tattoo shop like you had to seek these people out and that was the nice part of Tattooing in an illegal

environment was the fact that you didn't get them look he lose you know you either were totally serious about this tattoo or you gave up looking for someone 3 weeks earlier you know because it would take you months to find a tattooer in New York city so I was dealing with a clientele that was serious about what they wanted to do it was when legalization happened that the whole dynamic changed and all of a sudden I was dealing with people that were like oh maybe I want a tattoo you know I don't know what I want that was unheard of you had years to figure it out and that time you were looking for me you figured out exactly what the you wanted you know D yeah so I feel like that changed the seriousness of the people that actually showed up changed you know but in the last few years the whole dynamic has changed yeah I I mean you know like I said I I before like you know I got tattooed for armor like I feel like a lot of people got tattooed for that same reason or to St out in the crowd and these days people get tattooed to fit into the crowd that's a different part of the brain being worked there yeah you know someone trying to stand out and someone trying to fit in that's two completely different animals the clientele has changed drastically you know I find myself fighting to find common ground with the younger generation all the time that was never part of my job before no you know I was never part of my job before trying to trying to get you to talk to me you know like

even like scheduling a a a tattoo and you're trying to get what the they want but you just can't they can't verbalize yeah you know their social skills a total me I'll go all day I got diarrhea of the mouth this new generation it's hard to get them to say anything and when it's something as serious as you're about to put this on your skin for the rest of your life but you can't verbalize with me it's weird yeah yeah so it's probably better off that they all pick the same tattoo same exact Google image well we're or now we're getting some AI images yeah yeah yeah I try explaining that one to them that's not a real tattoo you're saying yeah but look at how good it looks it's not a real tattoo so what were some of like your first exposures to Tattooing in general like when you were growing up yeah you were attracted to like I got no memory whatsoever of anything that happened in the last year yeah but I remember like that from when I was I remember being 9 years old my little brother he's also a tattoo artist he was still in a stroller and we were at the Coney Island uh aquarium and all of a sudden this dude comes walking around the corner looking like a wizard like long gray hair and a long Gray beard and just covered in butterflies and that was the first time I had ever seen a heavily tattooed person yeah skip ahead six seven years I'm cutting out of school with my girlfriend we're watching TV and this guy shows up on TV and I remembered him immediately you know like it was

like holy that's the guy from Cone Island and that was Huggy beerris who did my first couple of tattoos with fake ID yeah how old were you been uh for my first tattoo was 14 years old and it was a girl's name Lisa still got it we won't get rid of it yeah dude that's a wild was he working out of an underground yeah working out of an apartment in Park Slope brookly okay yeah so at that time nobody was and that was that walking into his place that was it my the day that I went to go and get that tattoo everything was solidified from that point on walk into the joint 5 minutes in I was like this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life and it and that was 34 years ago you know spent two years trying to get an apprenticeship finally got an apprenticeship with Delgato when I was 16 not a not a formal apprenticeship or anything like that you know but it was uh just by lingering and hanging out man I'm sick and tired of covering up your garbage I better show you some you know so you got a whole collection like pretty young yeah yeah yeah I mean I don't get tattooed any everyone asks all the time you know like how often do you get tattooed and it's like not since my 20s I got a little these things you know I did your stomach right so yes one of my favorite tattoos my son who is now big into PeeWee Herman realized last week that that's Peewee Herman's bicycle was like right right away mom mom that was PeeWee Herman's bicycle dang we just watched Peewee last night with we watch

the newer one which is so so good yeah so sh you jumping around getting tattooed like all the every time you got tatto is probably in somebody's apartment in New York yeah like what what like what area were you getting tattooa were you traveling around all over New York mostly with my mentor Steve Delgado I started getting tattooed by Huggy Bear Ferris like iide down and then my mentor Steve dogado did the bulk of my work uh who else in New York was tattooing me back in the day what neighborhood oh that's uh uh H Brooklyn okay yeah that's Benson Hurst just a couple of blocks away from the high school that I got kicked out of a few years earlier yeah so uh' you get kicked in high school for can I ask uh what didn't I get kicked out of high school for I was a truant more than anything else I was a truant so they were pushing me out they were pushing me to do the GED thing which I never did do anyway yeah the city was calling you yeah just want to go around and around you know that's it I learned more than most other kids because I was out in the world you know I ended up going to a high school a very Italian neighborhood and and not dealing with the highest of intellects so I wasn't going to learn much to begin with you know so it was better off that you know I was I I read a lot I've always read a lot you know so I feel like I educated myself and all I wanted to learn about was the city that I grew up in yeah so the city became my school at you know 14 15 years old I learned

Common Sense yeah you I ain't books smart but I got a little bit of Common Sense up there get on the train before that door closes over that's it that's it yeah yeah you learn who to stay away from that's it you learn when to stay out of yeah did you get with a lot like growing up or when you say armor like I was just wondering no I just didn't like people I just didn't you know I I didn't like people when I was younger you know which is funny cuz you're on the phone more than anybody I ever met and you have so many friends yeah yeah yeah I got you know everybody you you were more like a loner though when you were youngster no I always had a type n crew I I always had someone that I was pounding around with you know my brother Leroy was along for most of the journeys yeah you know we cut out of school together yeah somewhat for me to blame it on when we got caught that's awesome so tell me more about your Mentor though like how was that like so that was N I started going up to Delgado in 91 okay um I started tattooing I I say March 23rd 1993 is the year is when I started tattooing that's when I went to go work in my first shop yeah but I started with Delgado in in 91 Delgado he's got a I mean he's we got a great lineage Delgado learned from Tony PLO Tony pedo learned from the moscowitz brothers the moscowitz brothers learned from their father s willly s willly learned from Charlie Wagner you know so I mean it goes right back to the beginning of the electrical tattoo

machine and of course Wagner learned from Samuel O'Reilly so I got this great history you know and Delgado passed along a lot of great stories and nurtured that history aspect for me which was a big deal because history I've always been really big into history if I get into something I want to know everything there is to know about it where it's started you know yeah which is another big issue that I have with this young generation of tattooers we have this beautiful amazing history and nobody gives two any longer about it yeah you know and I feel like a lot of mistakes being made these days with tattooing could be avoided by by the younger generation educating themselves you know how the do you know where you're going if you know way you've been yeah you know just from my personal experience what I've been exposed to with younger guys they don't or gals everybody who's getting into the they're just reluctant to like dive all in like I don't know you and I are like we just put our all into it like I personally didn't really know too much about uh history but I dove into the understanding of how the business worked how how the community worked how why are people drawn to us and like how do I get people to come get tattooed by me and just kind of watching that was like my passion so I wanted to know everything about it how it worked and then also the artists like so right I was I don't want to say it wasn't like super historian driven but I definitely wanted to know the

artists that learned from the artist that art you know and just get deep into that and F like go meet them like get out of your city go go go talk to those people they learned that story yeah yeah just sit there and shut up and listen you know cuz most of all everybody was extremely open and talkative so like the Wilder generation used to be interesting yeah what happens at conventions now everyone just stays at their phone I been to a convention in a minute oh yeah so my personal Outlook the the convention thing is definitely I I was doing them a lot in like 2011 and 12 and 13 and even then that they had it evolved a lot from obviously the past but the um the fact that like now nobody even like hangs out after the convention unless you're in your little click cuz they don't even go to the hotel cuz they stay in the hotel it's attached to the convention and then Uber all separately so like the last couple conventions we worked we sat in the lobby on a Saturday night and there was like three people there and I was like what the that was the draw for me to the conventions was the social aspect in the morning like everybody come down in the morning and all eat the same buff so you had the opportunity to bump shoulders with some legendary and like in the elevator or whatever and just be like hey man like y I just want to introduce myself real quick or you know try to break those little circles but now it's like you can't even yeah that's you just have to work a lot harder at it

so I'm not saying like if if you if you want to meet those people you literally have to go up and wait for them to take their headphones off and like you know do that whole thing but I don't know just it is what it is like everything evolves yeah is it evolving I don't know I guess it is you know it's just I don't know I feel like we hit a pinnacle a few years ago yeah it's pretty it's the hardest game right now ever than I think has ever been in insane how many people are in it you know so talented yeah so young oh I see so many beautiful tattoos these days you know I could spend hours on Instagram just liking beautiful tattoos and there's there's no shortage of them no shortage overwhelming and discouraging but you know in the beginning it was definitely a discouraging situation for me like being like holy this this many doing killer traditional these days in the beginning it was definitely discouraging and then I learned to use it as I I I screenshot a ton of all day long going wow I want to I want to drill something like that I want to do some like that look at how this guy approached this you know that's great so no I I absolutely enjoy Instagram I I I can't talk on Instagram you actually all I do is talk on I know I was doing a deep dive through all your social media or you mainly focus on Instagram right so yeah and now all you've got these like real fun like talking basically just talking reals you know just Brant and they're doing really well right yeah yeah yeah

you gain like a a Mor I one video with like5 million views yeah yeah Jes and I sit there going so let me get this straight I'll spend 20 hours drawing up a design right I'll spend another 20 hours executing this tattoo I'll get 200 likes yeah I say some stupid and I get 35 million views yeah I don't know what's wrong with this is it me but at least you know that's what I love about you too is like you're you see that and you're like a I'll give it a sh I guess keep saying stupid on Instagram as far as evolving I mean that's evolving you're pivoting you're seeing like opportunity and jumping on it I don't know if it is opportunity or what but I don't know anybody it's fun it's a good good way to meet people yeah I like it it's fun as well tell me more like so I don't know like when you were there in New York like I I I just really want to like hear more about to your transition of becoming a full-time tattooer your crazy you had to have some like real fun apprenticeship stories how was your apprenticeship as far as you one thing that people don't take into consideration is the fact that we we didn't start till 5:00 p.m. yeah you know because you didn't you didn't open until the Board of Health closed down because they were the only ones who could do anything and all they could do was hit you with running a business without a license $500 fine call it a day but all tattoo shops in New York City didn't open until 5:00 p.m. because of that so they were legitimate like

advertised you know they were open like it was word MTH no there was Word of Mouth it was in apartments there was VAR the first place that I saw with a sign was the first place that I worked at and that was custom Corner tattoo in Storia queens and I started there in March 23rd 93 but no it was most most people were just working out of their Apartments you know have one room set aside for tattooing in yeah and that's basically the way it went now I figured out a couple of ways to advertise in that situation I was kind of a doing a lot of figuring out ways to Market at that point yeah and there was so few ways too because you didn't want to get caught but what I was doing was I was putting my business cards I was going to all the magazine stores in Brooklyn and dropping my my card into the business into the magazine I remember you telling me that story that was a great and all of a sudden one day and I go to the same magazine stance over and over again a few in Manhattan but mostly all in Brooklyn and I remember walking into this one joint in Manhattan and the the the guy behind the counter going oh wait don't you see what they did now he was like they know you're doing this and then I had all the magazines in plastic and I was like son of a and he was like you're the reason so I'm the reason that mag that tattoo magazines came in that plastic cover so that people could I still figured a way out I just walked around with a box cutter yeah yeah so I still got them in there

now they weren't going to fall out while you were walking at home that's hilarious but yeah it was expensive to advertise in those magazines and I didn't see the point this way you know you open the magazine it falls right out you know I'm in town so that's how I advertised for a couple of years and that phone number led to that you know this beeper it was all beepers okay you'd beat me I'd call you back I love it I I kind of want to go back to that a it was nice it was nice you know and like I said these people were serious because it took them a while to find you you know oh yeah yeah you're like yeah that's awesome yeah I wish it would still like that it was so and and the other funny part is the the fact that the clo the further we get into custom tattooing the less people are I assume that when custom tattooing became a big thing I'd be doing new and inventive every day and it turned out to be the complete opposite yeah instead of them picking Off the Wall they' go on Google type in and pick one of the first three images that showed up yeah one a black and gray owl with the clock yeah yeah Cloud background yeah sometimes it's a stopwatch sometimes it's a it's a Compass you know but it's all the same elements yeah you know sometimes there's gates to heaven you know but it's always some birs and shitload of clouds yeah yeah and this has been 10 years of this being the sleeve yeah I feel it's pushing a flashback into the game though that would be nice it go well also it

makes it so incredibly difficult now to get tattooed by all of these big name custom tattooers you know n the street shop could come back I personally think it's like helping Street shop culture come back but somebody's got to be there to manage those Street shops and keep them open and be willing to sit there the like you said with flash the funny thing is the fact that they're they're afraid to go near flash they're afraid to pick something off the flash and it's like I don't understand you have no problem going on Google and picking one of the first three IM you type in butterfly and you pick one of the first three images that shows up but you're standing in a shop you know like a million people a day you're going to see that image on Google you type in butterfly tattoo a million people a day is seeing that if it's if you go to a tattoo shop where the owner or the artists are painting their own flesh you're lucky if a thousand people a year are going to see that painting yeah but you're going to talk on I would never get anything off the wall because you know everybody's got it when meanwhile you're walking around with an upside down breathe on your wrist you know and you got you know an infinity symbol and it's like really yeah you know maybe they're overwhelmed since sensory overload no they just can't I just I find it funny that they a celebrity will get a shitty tattoo and the next week that's all you're doing is that shitty tattoo on Mindless individuals and like

they'll sit there and act like it was their idea and it's like no I was around for the Dust Till Dawn oh yeah that was a good one at least that was at least a good one you know that one and then the saying that the two the two like British guys they were like Robin oh my God why I'm brain farting right now it's I cuz I don't even know what that means it's like sees the day or some but it was like on a finger huh yeah it was it was something in the movie where they using it it was a trigger finger I don't know oh my God I know why I'm terrible yeah what other good movie ones were there there were a bunch of good movie ones a good anything that Angelina Jolie ever got became Trend immediately yeah what's the the squiggle I never looked at you

know something like that I learned about that through Lars Lou that tattoo out of Berlin loose lips oh he's killer you got some work from him right what did you get from him I got this like this bird yeah killer tattoo he's a crazy dude right I went there to get a skull with flow and he told me no you didn't get it no I was like all right and I left with the bird he actually I flew over there and he told me uh let me sit down sometime this week and have lunch with you and decide if I want to tattoo you and I was like okay yeah super eccentric oh my God to the the the most the most follow social media but he don't post very much but what a great tattoo talk about too like the whole entire industry is basically built around like what he was doing right as far as like new traditional right right he brought it to that next level the giant female faces yeah gorgeous now every way you look yeah definitely super influential yeah he ended up tattooing me luckily after uh 20 different weird stories that happened yeah what a again a character that's the type of person you want to get tattooed by you know you're can enjoy the whole thing that's the thing man this is all an experience we're selling an experience yeah you know like when you get someone in the chair you got to roll out the red carpet you got to tell the good stories and how disappointing it is when you sit in the chair and the customer puts headphones on and you're like ah it bothers me when I was younger I would be like

ah no no no and now that I'm like older and have a lot more going on in my head I'm all fair enough I ain't got much going on these days I need this I need this yeah right like at least tell me some up weird stories yeah that honestly my favorite part of one of my favorite Parts about about tattoing is the interaction with the custom yeah they I feel like I learned a ton about life and all these opportunities and all these different things that you can do different people's careers and learn a lot of what not to do yeah there's some up people out there that are using tattooing as their weird kind of go to for therapy and I don't know why I just thought about this like when that lady that couple brought in those pictures the close-ups of her

genital oh my God and the more I was like I'm not comfortable with this the more she'd bring me more up pictures and like I'm trying to tattoo for you I don't need 18 close-ups of your I remember walking by the booth while you were doing it and you were just like sweat on your head and I was I just kept chugging you know was like you know those were some of the the best that's an easy way to really to really make you uncomfortable yeah you know did you end up tattooing her I did one tattoo on her which was in a very you know private area to begin with but then she was she was just like oh I want a tattoo around this and around that and just and they would bring in 8 by10 pictures of her folders of her genitalia and then they would handdraw like this is how I wanted to look I wanted around here and it's like yeah why but why he pictures why and the husband's just like staring at you like all excited to hear and see your reaction while you're staring at and the more I let them know I was uncomfortable the more they pushed to the point that I was just like a I'm sorry I'm not that toing your I just died just can't do it we just had some really weird uh only fans action go down in the shop oh brilliant yeah and we're not going to do that anymore yeah but the craziest the craziest person that I tattooed in that in Studio 21 was when I tattooed Michael Jackson's dad I know I bring that up creepy creepy situation dude I remember him pulling Two Pistols out of his pockets like three

cell phones that dude had more guns on him than a yeah he was like an army little 83 years old 83 years old he was a g dude I saw him in Like Home Depot like a week later that was an intimidating situation and the fact that he wore so much Foundation like I found out that day everyone talked on Michael Jackson bleaching himself no he had Vitiligo cuz his dad has that's a gen disorder and his dad was white as cuz it took me like three paper towels of green soap and three paper towels of alcohol just to clear off the foundation from his face to get to the whitest skin I've ever seen in my life oh oh I remember how stressed you were so I I didn't want to with you that day you know that was an intimidating and even for like months later all I could think was yo with all that foundation on his face how is this tattoo not going to get infected yeah ever see it like Howes this still sh through like no absolutely not not with the amount of foundation that he was and I did explain it all to him I did say you know you're wearing a lot of makeup I ain't wear no makeup and I was like oh okay I ain't going to question you his mustache was penciled on his eyebrows were penciled on yeah he was an intimidating intimidating old man small Dude too yeah he was like not a big man and but probably one of the more gangster figure and I remember how it happened your sister came in the back and she goes there's some old pimp up front jewelry looking to get tude and I was like she was like are you

interested and I was like yeah and I go walking up front I recognized him right I didn't recognize him right away but he looked very familiar to me I knew that he was somebody and then he put his hand out he was like how you doing man Joe Jackson and it was like a this is going to be weird yeah yeah that was that was wild I Jay swarm had the best quote of the day he said the moonwalk came from his dick good Lord BR J SW I got to get him on here I talked to Nick Nick Ms this week too so he's got some fun stories yeah yeah I know that we all have fun stories about that shop it was a good time and other shops like so you were I mean how long did you tattoo in New York like you said you started on that corner shop yeah yeah I was at custom corners for a year underground but at a commercial space yeah is that when that was the first one you that was the first one that I saw that like that was a 90 that was in a storefront it still was on descript like there was no signage out front okay you know um but it was two big glass doors right on the corner and as soon as those doors opened it was just flashed out there was no guess work how many guys are were in there uh it was normally me Gallow and his wife Tony and then on weekends we' nor have another tattoo there was this one guy tattoo Al clar from Queens tattooed too yeah yeah his wife Tony she was good I'm sure I'm assuming she's a badass she was really good uh she quit she didn't tattoo for very long maybe 10 years oh okay um

he's still t as far as I know Gallo still tattooing uh somewhere in Upstate New York any I'm always fascinated with any woman female that tattooed in those days r as really strong yeah not enough people give Jackie GR him enough credit not just being a female Tater in the 70s ' 80s and early '90s but being a black female Tater at that time she was in New Orleans right New Orleans yeah she's still tattooing she's still putting away she's got to be close to 50 years if not more I want to say 72 71 or 72 so she's got over 50 years tattooing now that's awesome God bless I just saw a cool little video that some like vlogger chicken did on her about awesome she's just cool people yeah I'd like to get tattooed by her someday I've never never had the opportunity I have had a million opportunities but I I'd love to get tattooed by the atmosphere in those shops was like pretty rough or like good kind of oh in New York yeah I mean that like it would no it was pretty it was pretty you know I mean the clientele was was an interesting you know I mean this was a point where not everyone got tattooed where you tattooed pretty interesting people you know um but they were there for that common thing so I feel like as even when I was in the roughest of shops everybody was still to be there you know it was rare anybody kind of I think I think I had more fun at the rougher shops you know tattooing behind bulletproof class in the South Bronx you know yeah tell us about that Uncle Angelo shop

Champion tattooing man we tattooed behind bulletproof glass it was an interesting interesting situation giant names he did uh the Harlem World on mace that's a $60 tattoo that's his whole upper arm it was $30 per word and Angelo had a way of doing these names it could be like a 16l name and he'd still get it to look right as a sleeve as a half sleeve you know he'd fill up the whole top of the arm with one word never used a liner always Shader for everything the lines were clean as yeah uh he had an interesting approach to tattooing you said handdrawn on or no yeah everything was handdrawn on everything was wasd drawn on by hand as far as the lettering went and I was there for a couple years it was it was tough gig you $30 names $30 names you know so two names that that Harlem World was 60 bucks you know yeah um and it was yeah just bang him out we'd have a a list of you know who was next and it was just sharing them out you know it was me uh Uncle Angelo Angelo scato and Jasmine who had the Tattoo Nightmares television show okay and that girl could tattoo oh way Beast fast as and that's what it was we were just churning these tattoos out that was early 2000s 2000 2001 2002 I worked up there um interesting situation you know uh tattooing a lot of Jamaican gang bangers you know and I remember Angelo being like you better be nice to these people cuz all the women they carry acid in their purses and I was like come on and one day this lady goes she's I'm tattooing and she's

like oh man they mess with me me throw the the ocid in their face and I'm like what she opens up a purse she got like a little baby food jawer like some clear liquid and I was like what is that she was like it's acid oh I was thinking acid like no no no like legit with I know it had such a gangster face off acid not burn your face off acid burn your face off acid yeah know it's obviously oh now that was it man I was like man this is a scary neighborhood little little old ladies walking around with jaws asses in that person dude you got to do what you got to do man that's yeah that was the South Bronx that was the South Bronx that was an interesting situation throw acid in their face then you just throw the glass on the ground and then there's no proof of anything that's it that's it yeah oh another time I had a lady tell me she told me she wanted to get her tattoos done before she went to jail so I was like who I'm just going to ask I like what are you going to jail for she goes to get me te did and I was like don't understand what that means so she leaves and I go Jasmine what is to get me Teeth did mean she was like oh she caught a case so she can go and get her teeth fixed on fixed for free oh I was like so you just go to jail to get your teeth done just do a little time apparently this is a thing be able to eat clean when I get out this isn't thing new teeth I might catch a case pretty soon I could use a few teeth fix so how many did you tattoo like all over New York

all five burrows yeah I tattooed in all five burrows I feel like I remember you telling me that story it was kind of fun to say but Brooklyn I've never tattooed out of my apprenticeship I've never I've I've I was and that's funny cuz I was always Associated as a Brooklyn tattooer CU I'm from Brooklyn but I never tattooed past my apprenticeship in Brooklyn I learned in Brooklyn and out of respect for my mentor left Brooklyn immediately oh okay kind of common yeah I haven't tattooed in over 31 years in Brooklyn haven't done a single tattoo in over 31 years in Brooklyn was that a mutual agreement that you guys just a respect thing just a respect that was a time when tattooers respected each other you didn't dare open up on someone you know even someone you didn't know it didn't matter if you had beef with them you just didn't open on on on another tattoo yeah you know and in the beginning there was you know there was a a group that took care of tattooing before before it went legal a bike club that that handled all in New York City tattooing and if you did have a problem they'd come and they'd shut you down you know I had them show up when I was a kid tattooing out of an apartment out of a friend's apartment and they showed up and they were like well you first off they were not expecting to run into a kid they were expecting to beat the out of some older dude you know and they were like well who's doing the tattoos and I was like well I am and they're like who's doing the

tattoos I was like no no no it's me yeah and they were like you were supposed to take your like find a mentor find somebody who can vouch for you and that's when I found Elgato and and no he started helping me out and we telling me every day I'm not going to teach you I'd only teach my kids you know and then like two years later when I'm putting out killer work he was like taught him everything he knows oh so is he still around or yeah he he actually just moved to Florida he was in the same location in Brooklyn the same apartment he was tattooing out of until two or three December December he left Brooklyn but he was that working out of that same apartment on 81st Street and 18th Avenue since 81 82 yeah long time to work out of a little corner of your kitchen yeah that's wild and just put out some of the most beautiful beautiful work imaginable you know killer killer traditional stuff damn so like around the time like when did you start meeting like bow Stan and bow Stan was early on in Bow Stan I met him the first time 94 94 or '95 and I had already put him up on a pedestal you know I had already heard all the stories about Stan and him Tattooing in the bowy and shadam square and the 40s and 50s yeah so I had already put him up on a pedestal and was expecting this this hard exterior dude and that's not what I got I got the sweetest guy you ever want to meet who became my biggest fan overnight you know and I remember him calling my house one time and it was like if you're

a guitarist then Jimmy Hendricks calls your house like it was like really is this really stand like you know and he was just my biggest fan you know dude would would tell everyone would just sing my Praises my whole career you know I remember one time going to a convention and I was entering that Mickey Mouse back piece into the convention and he sees me and he goes are you entering a piece into this show because I'll make sure you do well but I got to warn you there's already a winner somebody did this Mickey Mouse whole back piece and I I was like that's me like oh you won oh it's funny cuz I we digging through your Instagram yesterday I saw that and I that piece specifically still stands out to me this day like I remember it was one thing that I looked at at your portfolio when you came to look for a job I was like oh like it was just so simple and fun I mean it was my favorite tattoo I can't look at it without SM size was so next level I can't look it without smiling I'm still good that was done in '96 I've never seen a Mickey tattoo that big before no and you never will he's a huge man yeah you're so used to seeing that tattoo done this right right and that was the point was we we'd always joke about it when a small tattoo would come in we'd be like it's a little Mickey Mouse tattoo so I was like you know what I want to do the biggest Mickey Mouse tattoo possible so like I said to the floor guy I was like yo try and talk someone into a Mickey M I knew it was going to

take months and months for him to find somebody but I was like you know try talk someone into a Mickey Mouse tattoo like two hours later he's like you know that dude Dill that hangs out across the street at the beer distributor he's down to do a Mickey Mouse back piece and I was like well I thought it was going to be a normal size that dude's a monstrous human but I still see him pretty I saw him last year the tattoo still looks amazing so solid yeah that's my favorite tattoo I can't look at that without smiling yeah I love that tattoo yeah I want to see that in the wild just on the beach yeah from a mile away yeah yeah totally yeah you can see it from the sky yeah I'll check Google Earth next time when he's at the beach brilliant so you got to build up a good relationship with uh moscowitz and like so you you kind of mentioned you got to meet him as the kind guy but he has some like on him he was a hard ass braw I mean he was he was one of the Bowery Boys you know he was pres the it's so fun to like meet somebody and then you hear all these stories all these crazy stories about and but he was a tough mother up until the day he died you tattooed all the way until the day he died too or you you tattooed we had a friend uh Baja bill that built machines and him and his wife used to do conventions with Stanley Stanley would go out and work at their place in ball ber main during the Summers CU he like the fish that was his his thing so he'd go out the ball Harbor and fish in his

free time and tattoo at the shop all day but they were working a convention together and she had gotten into the elevator alone they were cleaning out the booth so they were coming up you know just bringing stuff up handful at a time she in the elevator two guys got in and held her at knife point when the doors open to the elevator she screamed and she said literally Stanley was there with a knife in his hand in no time she said he knocked the one guy out and had the other guy up against the wall with a knife to his throat Stanley was like 78 and she was like I've never seen somebody work that quickly she was like the look of fear on those guys faces and she was like they weren't small men you know they didn't know he was just a braw brawled his whole life you know and he used implements of torture you always talk about hitting people with hammers and yeah I was Hammer thing cuz he tattooed me and I've got the the fish with the hammer really I never got the logo off of him I never got the logo from him I got a bunch of cool tattoos from him but I never got the logo from him think me and Bob Tyrell are Blood Brothers cuz we we did those right next to each like I jumped in right after that and need to change the needle yeah I watched the uh you know the old you know the first time I watched him tattooed now mind you like I said this was 94 995 so I mean we were already in full swing with cleanliness and tattooing so to see somebody tattooing with no gloves was a trip for

me yeah you know and it wasn't just the fact that he tattooed with no gloves it was the fact that at the end of the tattoo I was studying his hands and being like how is there no blood or ink on your hands okay he'd wrapped the fing he did the old school wrap around the pinky so that was his dabbing hand you know but no blood no ink the only Trace was his thumb which he had the acetate stencils he was still using acetate stencils so he put the chalk all on with his thumb so his thumb was permanently black yeah but it blew my mind that I put on a pair of gloves I do a tattoo I'm coverting Within seconds and this guy did a whole tattoo on me and there's literally not a trace on his hands you know and that was something that I'm sure you had to learn tattooing with no gloves yeah cleaner like not overfilling your yeah but I remember the first few times Civ had taken him on the road to a bunch of conventions and I remember Stanley being like yo I got to wear gloves at these things and it's like how's that going and he was like it's terrible he was like I my hands don't feel right I can't I don't know I I I can't feel my machine correctly and it was like yeah I bet that would be you've been tattooing like this for 40 years 50 years at this point yeah you're about as in tune as it gets there's nothing in between your experience no so yeah that was that was it for him was and and and and it was funny how when he tattooed me with gloves on his gloves were spotless you know because

he was so used to tattooing without gloves and not getting anything on his hands that even his gloves was spotless when he tattoo you know he was an incredible incredible person I count April 11th 2020 as the death of tattooing because when we lost him we lost a huge part we lost all connection to the old school the guys who knew the guys who invented all of this yeah I mean he was friends with Charlie Wagner Ace harand Bob Wicks Bill Jonesy you know he was friends with all of them and that was the last connection that we had to that that whole era of tattooing yeah so losing Stanley was a big was a rough one for me if I had to put a death date on tattooing it would be April 11th 2020 because of that I love it that's one thing I love about like you I just love your your passion about the history and everything too but I love how you'll dig into other people's history too like you you broke down for me the uh my personal L absolutely like I don't know how tra y need to drive back to the pike that's big that's big yeah so you learned from Dave log Dave log and Dave log learned from Hing hinge Rob swingle I don't know if he's still I feel like Rob swingle passed away recently he was a a Pennsylvania guy originally I thought he got killed no know he I'm sure he got shot in many garages but he was another talking about huge men that dude was like a mountain yeah I never actually got to meet him I saw saw one picture and then heard a lot of St a big scary gangster type Vegas dude

yeah uh spent most of his time in Vegas but originally from Pennsylvania from small town in Pennsylvania yeah okay so then then that goes back you said went back to the pike yeah so he learned from my buddy Jim Hodgins Jim Hodgins was a Pennsylvania tattoo matter of fact Jim's in the hospital I got to give him a ring tonight Jim Hodgins learned from a guy named Fat Mike Tandy Fat Mike Tandy learned on the Pike oh so that's that's your lineage there so that goes right back to if he learned on the Pike that that that completes your connection to uh that Chestnut Street Tattoo Shop um that Carrie bber owns now I got my name on the wall in there that me too I I was so psyched about that yeah she kept the original name on that or whatever it's now Twilight fantasy but it was originally called well it was Bert Grim Shop I think it was just called Grim tattoo oh okay I think dang I want to like sit down with you one day and actually look at the pictures too and like really go through that for me personally but yeah but you can trace yours back for right back to the beginning right back to charie Wagner and Samuel O'Reilly so cool I and I don't feel like I hear Too Many people talk about their lineage ever as T Well because most people you know I mean these days it's you know a two-month apprenticeship yeah you're learning nothing you know how many times a day I'm going through Instagram and I find people tattooing over moles like what did you learn in two months like you didn't

learn the like there's rules there and there's rules for a reason you're tattooing over pre precancerous skin I'll see a tattoo where like 15 lines are over moles and it's like you could have Twisted that image an eighth of an inch yeah right yeah and missed every one of those moles so so you got to wonder do they just not give a or were they never taught that you don't t had two over precancerous skin sh I mean I've accidentally hit one before and you see what happens exp I remember when I very first started I was working on this big piece on this guy's back and it was just like a real light skinn Mo I don't know it just I for thought you were going to be good yeah I didn't see it I just ripped right on through it and then it was his back through that like 3 hour tattoo was just a stream of blood all the way to his ass crack coping it with ointment yeah I'm over there with my elbow or you know looking around that's what every other T wants to stop into Booth to talking you they know exactly what the he did you know oh good times good times I don't know why that reminds me of so many up stories of just being in that position where a mentor or somebody around you or your co-workers are standing over you and just you know it's going right now and you're stressing why are you here now out of here you haven't stopped in my booth in 3 weeks feel like you're doing you're doing this on purpose that but that gave you that grit though too is like when you're stressed out of your mind

you just had to keep that straight face and get through that tattoo customer your client didn't oh yeah he's a bleeder yeah yeah you blame it on them or some we drinking last night stressed how many and do you got any fun stories had fun stories about just up a tattoo like yo I totally misspelled a back to a shoulder toh shoulder lettering oh my God it said like big ass block letters yes okay like uh Old English it said remembering never remembering never cuz it was one of those things where I mean this was before I not that I use an iPad now but I had to do it on like a perfect tilt so to get it to fit I redrew it like 15 times at at one point and it was just the outline cuz it was shoulder to shoulder you know yeah and dude calls me up and goes hey man I think you may have misspelled this on my back he was like but I have an idea on how we can remedy it and I was like this guy this has got to be a joke like this guy is way too nice about he became one of my best friends he was actually was actually a best man in one of my weddings no joke dead dead ass uh and I was like how are we going to fix this and he was like well if we put across to balance it off on this side and and I forget how we fixed it on this side but we covered it up and I have photos of it I got a bunch of photos of it we turned it into a full back piece yeah of course a good ass deal too like if you look at it like even to this day like looking at the photos of it I'm like wow I really covered that well

now mind you he didn't pay for that whole backie yeah dude nothing motivates you more than that moment of life but it was the fact that he was so cool about it as I'm losing my mind going oh my God what do you mean yeah and like he was like no dude I got it figured out like this is what we need to do to fix it and it was like why are you so cool about this you should be freaking out on me oh man my praying hands with six fingers was a good l the biggest inting dude ever too oh really yeah he was same though he was incredibly cool about it but I was I was doing those like I oh I do these dotted lines right that's where you shade off of well you know stencil got a little messy and I just hard lined one one of my reference lines where start fing yeah it's better than missing a finger the worst thing is he came in right while I was sitting there in a empty quiet shop with my boss sitting right next to me and I was a skinny ass little kid and he was a big old Samoan dude and so of course I gave always works I fixed that for him obviously for free and then I also I was like bro anything you want he goes he goes okay you know and then they just jump right in and get tattooed by you again why not yeah why not but damn there is there's cting the fingers yeah there's no motivation like the attempt to not get your ass beat by a your boss or your new client but yeah I get did this Savage giant black and gr pitbull on his back with the biting through chains and all this three sessions

of work and I was just like oh happy to do the best to do it yeah I didn't tell that story for like the next years oh yeah no doubt no doubt has some man we all got them it's just a matter of admitting it yeah you know we all got them uh so you got some fun relationships with so many other fantastic old school tattooers too like I mean you introduced me to like Phil Eddie ah Eddie's another one what an amazing human being yeah like tell tell me about Eddie cuz like you got to travel I got a great story about Eddie actually before I knew him before I was born probably he had he had moved to California doc dog had a shop in vanise California okay and he wanted to move to a town and the rule at this point was 10 miles away was the rule you didn't open on anyone who was less than 10 mies away from you so he went to Doc dog first and let him know hey I'm opening a shop it's 10 mies away doc dog was like okay you do you the day that he opened doc dog shows up on his motorcycle and said Eddie I just clocked it you're n miles away from me and Eddie reached into his pocket pulled out the keys handed them to Doc dog and said it's your shop now and that's the way things were done he invested all this money into building this shop out had it all planned that he was moving to this part of California from the east coast and just like that handed him the keys turned around and went back to Philadelphia oh he didn't even like re no re that was it okay and that was the respect that

tattooers used to have for each other now at this point they didn't know each other from Adam yeah you know they ended up becoming very good friends because of that situation but that's the way things were done now if you opened on Eddie he put a cinder block tree window yeah right you know he was telling me some stories about how many shops he's opened up over the years and was like an an absurd amount of shops right yeah and then the crazy part is when he retired all of the people who worked for him were under the impression they were losing their jobs they didn't know what was going to happen he's retired he's going to close up all the shops he called a meeting where all of his employees showed up and he said everyone who's been working for me for 40 years on want stand up half the room stood up 40 years or more and he said you guys all own the shops he said you guys got to pay for the lawyer bills but you guys all own shops like we're going to figure it out some of you are going to have to double up you know some of you it's going to be three owners but you guys all own these shops now damn and I talked to a couple of them that were like yo I walked into that meeting thinking it was I guess I got to find a new job and then I left owning a business damn you know but that's that's proof of what a great owner he was that 40 years was half of his employees damn yeah yeah how many shops did he own when you when he did that jeez you know Eric that's another guy you should

interview Dr Eric Eric knows exactly how many he had like he said at one point Eddie sat down and really did the paperwork and figured out how many shops he's owned and it was over 100 yeah like throughout his lifetime it was over a 100 shops remember he had like a well-tuned formula for opening them up you know what it was real simple through clean the flash that was going up if you walked into any of the shops it was basically the same Flash and same places he knew what sold what to put up front you know he he knew how to open a shop and owning the supply business I mean he people forget he was Nationals in the beginning yeah and then he was United after that him he opened Nationals I want to say 73 or 74 I want to say 74 was when he opened Nationals and that's when it was in Long Island New York him and his sister went Partners eventually he walked away she she bought him out and uh in the '90s he opened United tattoo supply which was basically the same type of stuff as as Nationals you know all the machines had their their intended purposes you know they were manufacturing those like all in the states at the time what they I'm pretty sure everything was their catalog and Nationals catalog were almost identical I'm trying to think if he had anything different everything was better everything was a little bit better the only thing that he had an issue with was he went with a different size with tubes I think the tubes were a little bit bigger so all of the machine Mach

wouldn't hold regular sized tubes everything would slip with a regular sized tube you have to buy his tubes for his machines yeah you think that was on purpose uh yeah absolutely absolutely Absol 110% he was a smart do I have any other good Eddie stor I got a bunch of good Eddie stories here's a funny one concerning Eric Eddie used to talk about when he'd retire you wanted to sit on a bench and feed ducks that's what you do when you retire you're an old man you sit on a bench feed ducks so when he found the retirement place that he wanted to move to he was like there's a pond Right Out My Back Door he was like this is it I will spend my retirement feeding ducks at the pond so Eric goes to visi him he had been there a couple of months at this point Eric goes to visit him and Eddie always always referred to Eric as his son so Eric says he gets out of the cab in this uh this this uh retirement community and these two old ladies come running up to him and they're like are you uh Eddie funk's son and he's like yeah yeah yeah and they were like we want to talk to you there's signs all around the pond and we've been explaining to him please do not feed the Ducks but he just continues to feed the Ducks so Eric goes listen I'll talk to him but I can't promise anything yeah so with this he goes in he goes as he opens the door there's a pallet of duck food at his front door like literally a pallet of duck food at the front door so he says Eddie the he was like a what am I I'm an old

man I have beat Ducks it is what it is he says next morning like 7:00 in the morning he hears the and he hears Eddie Shuffle over to the door and he hears hello ladies and he goes it starts Mr Funk we've asked you numerous times can you please stop feeding the Ducks they're on a very special diet they can't be fed now mind you they're they're standing at the door with the skid of duck food right and he goes oh no I'm not feeding the Ducks and he goes there's like this silence he goes and I know they're looking at the bags of duck food as he's saying this he goes I'm feeding the elephants the problem is these Ducks get here before the elephants all the time and eat all the food he goes total silence and they just walk away dude I'm feeding the elephant he he was a ladies man too oh oh my goodness oh my goodness I got some fun he was a trip yeah he he you the time you brought him into our shop he sat there I was all excited to show him around the shop I'm like hey Eddie you want to you want to go a tour or anything and my sister was working the front counter there and he goes no talking to her like okay right on man and that time I was getting that tattoo by Stan in Vegas at the biggest convent you know Mario convention uh I was sitting there my the girl I was with at the time he liked blondes apparently but he I was sitting there trying I was getting a tattoo standing on one leg with my other leg like on the chair and just getting all sorts of and it it didn't matter it

didn't matter the age he knew how to talk to women of all ages I have pictures of my of three of all three of my daughters with with him as an as infants laughing hysterically the first time my daughter Charlotte ever smiled and laughed was interaction with Philadelphia Eddie he knew how to talk to women I was I was all excited to talk to him again and he just shut me down at everything I said and then he had my chick laughing her ass off she's over there giggling and like he's like you know just touch I'm like he's great he was amazing and smell amazing always smelt amazing you could smell him from a mile away oh the suits and everything he was a Class Act biggest personality tattooing has ever seen Philadelphia Edie hands down Bar None again another one that we lost and and so important I just came across a picture of Miu my dad him I think Gil the drill and S I don't know speak characters yeah yeah yeah cuz he was like he used to dress real wild back in the day too and I remember seeing him at some shows in Austin Texas in like the early 2000s a trp he was cruising with a little tiny puppy he had a little miniature Chihuahua and just his gold teeth a trip he had like I'm pretty sure he wore a suit like a big ass suit most iconic skull tattoos to this day yeah to this day you can pick his skulls out from a mile away and that just so true cuz I just started I dug through his Instagram the other day and it always it reminded me of like I started when I started drawing my

skulls they were real different and I remember him saying something you do it wrong for long enough it becomes a style and I always remember like every time I would draw my skulls they were real different than every but I liked and that's just how I wanted to fing do and people talk a ton of man and then sure enough like I did it for 10 years or whatever and then I was like doing day every day yep and they translated well the tattoos you kept them simple you kept them raw and simple and that's what will always hold well for tattooing yeah and I think later on I I really just tried to simplify everything I was doing and tattoo like what you would do or teach me to do too at times like real traditional but just with my own illustrative style you know so I just changed the the way the lines flowed and then everything else was just packed a black in leave the skin open so let me ask you a question so your mom was always super artistic yeah what how did she how did she Artic yeah artistic how did she nurture that in you when you were a kid she just always like always exposed me to everything as far as just kind of naturally maybe not even like intentionally she was just always painting she'd be in the kitchen airbrushing when cuz she wanted to learn how to airbrush she was um always we did a lot of like hand painting and when I was a little kid or there was always like a oh do you want I I learned how to make uh paper you know and then I I just thought about that the other day I

was like I want to do this for my kids we were taking a bunch of newspaper ripping it up into a million pieces and then putting it in a blender and making the pulp and then taking the screen off the house the rental house we were in and just smashing it through the screen and putting all my dad's weights and like old piece of wood on it you know and then pulling it out of the in the sun just letting it dry up and then we would try to paint on that just fun little things like that like really teaching you about more than just the surface of anything that we were doing is like and that's kind of where you know I guess we both talk about just diving in man get into it get whatever the you're into learn how to do it and just go deeper and deeper yeah yeah it's fun man it's like I don't know yeah you know a lot of people are blown away when I when they find out that I use these rotary pens these days yeah and it's like you know that's another thing from my lineage was all these guys wanted to try new Delgato was buying when when RH re first became a thing he was buying them up left and right Tony pedo same thing you want to learn about this stuff you want to know what's why yeah you know and like these days I mean the convenience aspect of these pens is one thing but what a difference it is from the coil machines you know a huge difference huge I thought it was going to be like oh you know it's just no yo completely different ball game yeah but just my switch from uh coils to

Rotary was mind-blowing right you know like I got like I think one of my first rotaries are like neot shag buils right right I remember that oh these these this is it you know and then I later on was like that kind of I guess was a stepping stone to try the pen stound machine after I was guilty of making fun of my peers for using them for a little bit and that was my point was I wanted to I wanted a I was like I'm going to use this thing for 3 months so that I can learn more to talk about with us it as ammo to talk you know what this is good this is a good tool that I could keep in my Arsenal you know and it's been a permanent part of my Arsenal ever since it's wild you know did you ever have any like physical issues from tattooing for so long like when I are you kidding me my posture I guess uh anything that stands out other than just slowly like I went through corpal tunnel in the 90s okay yeah that was pretty rough like where I was putting my hands in in ice buckets every night at the end of the day really and then I was dating a nurse for a while who put me on all of these vitamins and it ABS I was about to get the surgery and I'm glad I didn't because at that point the surgery hasn't wasn't as advanced as it is now oh yeah yeah yeah and like I heard a lot of horror stories about you know people who ended up with so much squa tissue that they couldn't do anything with that hand any longer yeah so was going to say or you just end up so as n Phil these days it's nothing

these days it's noninvasive you know it's it's weird how goes like I when I made that switch from coils to Rotary my shoulder like gave me for like two months dude it when you made the switch to coils yeah from coils to to Rotary huh I don't know if that was just my own I find more hand now remember I've I've always used smaller grips I've always like that's the one problem that I'm having an issue with with the pens is the fact that that's it's you're you're stuck with that one thick ass grip and like for fine line stuff I prefer a a pencil grip you know the th grip on your hand though see but I find the opposite I find the opposite gangster bump or no I I had I had the the money bump yeah that's long gone that's long gone yeah that I still got the the pin and uh burning hole in my finger naked needles you know like soldering all the way up and you're like it's melting my skin and that's another thing that's another part that nobody even realizes anymore was the flux intake oh my God you can taste it you taste it right now that's salty yeah yeah burning your nose and how you'd have perfect needles all the time because the ones that weren't perfect you threw the away yeah you knew exactly you inspected them every single yes you knew you knew you knew that your needles were going to be made exactly the way you wanted because you were making them yourself you know and it and these days you're you're kind of at the mercy you know and that's what I like about your stuff is

the fact that you you got the loose and the tight like nobody does that like how many times I'll deal with another supplier and it's like Ah that's way too tight for me and I'm in a jam because now I ain't got and I was hoping you up and I'm sitting there going how the am I going to tattoo with these tight ass needles don't I'm going to give you some samples of our Hollow liners today too oh right on right that's a challenge the whole actual switch from needle on bar to cartridge was still is like it's just takes a lot of experimentation to find your your right fit like there's I'm using groupings now that I didn't even know existed I was using the very limited groupings of needle on bar then you jump to like I thought a loose nine was like

the biggest thing you ever had now I'm like using tide 11s and they're like typ fives on needle on bar but they also provide this like kind of different touchability yeah fun and you I can still kind of taper in all my line work like my whole career I've never been able to like connect from point A to point B it's like taper in taper out and I'll connect that with shading I don't know that's just my weird little style it's come a long way a long long way it's G you so you're also a collector like I love like you I'm like I want to jump all over the place that rotary thing that you posted that Stan mosit made that's real that's real it looked I was like did you make this being a bullshitter what and he invented that in like the late 60s early' 7s so people talk about you know all the first batter that was the first battery powered rotary machine dude I want one of those I'm can't imagine there's there you could still find them really you could still find them they still pop up that one that I posted last year I had literally just got my hands on earlier than that and even the cartridges it's got cartridges on it it's so wild so it's like you know we look at this as like a new thing and it's like Stan had this idea in the late 60s early' 70s so he was just cutting the whole bar off essentially but where the needles mounted weird yeah they they would actually they fit into the the like the cartridge is actually permanently on the machine and you'd Slide the needle grouping

into there and then there was a screw that would tighten the the needle grouping down so basically the plunger is what you were connecting your needle bar to your needle to yeah yeah um I I could bring it by one day and take a look at it it's interesting as but it's just the point that he had this idea back then again this is why he's the most important tatto of our time that's cool he had these ideas a long time ago and tried them out you know for everybody that's interested in like learning more about them or I don't know where are some links or like where is there books or documentaries unfortunately he's one of the ones that there's not too much out there about you know Phil Philly Philadelphia Eddie he has a real good documentary that's just about him right oh well it was supposed to come out it never came out but there is how did I watch it uh probably through Eric yeah cuz I remember really enjoying it and I feel like I got a copy of it at one point in time hopefully it's still in my DVD collection cuz are you sure you thinking of that not the S of Jerry documentary I think I might be thinking of the S of Jerry cuz I've never seen the the Eddie one but I do know that it was in the works for a while but we got the books we got seven volumes because he had a big part in the seeven in the Sailor Jerry thing yes yeah he was in the they J that though yeah yeah cuz we used to play that in the shy smoku great documentary great documentary I should Replay that we used to

just kind of play it on a loop like in the lobby for the customers yeah that was a really good documentary yeah the eddie1 never came out but we like I said we have the seven volumes of books that you can still find pretty easily yeah um Stanley unfortunately no we're going to lose we're going to lose his stories and that's another thing that bothers me like I said like there younger generation don't care to even hear the stories let alone pass them along you know so it are his stor going to end with my generation I hope not you know I talked to enough young tattooers that I hope they're going to continue these stories on and tell these amazing stories about about him because right now there's nothing about him I'd like to sit down with you

and just do this more and Doc that because if anything that can be a way for it to carry on you know and just out of passion and interest it's fun as and like you know who cares if anybody I at least it's there and hopefully they'll come full people interested I got my fingers crossed Hardy Mark books is reproducing everything now so that's a huge part because there's a lot of people that we need to know about in those books those tattoo Time Books I'm sure he's going to redo those I know he redid just recently they were promoting there's a handful of people promoting the tattoo Dragon Tattoo book is that the one that he read yeah yeah just just recently yeah yeah so that's coming out and hopefully he just continues to reproduce all of those books because those books were important I remember trying to track down that Dragon book The New York City Public Library had like five copies what and I went all over trying to get it of course nobody had it it had been taken out there never brought back but I tried tracking that book down for a minute I remember going all the way out to the Staten Island library and going out to the queen library trying to find that book there and they were like no it was borrowed once and never brought back dude damn huh yeah yeah so then like and Eric didn't he I I thought he was going to write more books about Stan not he was going to do Stan he was going to do Rambo he was going to do Gil Monty and then it just he did spent so much time working

on the Eddie thing and it took so much of his time to promote it and everything yeah and the books you know I mean it's hard to sell books yeah you know and like the first couple first two three um volumes flew off the shelves but then when you're coming out every year with a new book yeah people don't really keep up as much and then when there's seven volumes people are like well I'd have to buy all seven volumes yeah I think I have all seven I think yeah I have all seven and I have all seven audio and that is amazing that's funny amazing to hear his he just had the greatest voice he narrated the whole entire book the whole thing whole thing we need to get Eric in here yeah yeah so does he still have the books I want to say he sold the rights recently oh no yeah no he didn't sell the rights he sold the last of his stock recently oh okay that's a whole different book game yeah yeah he still has the the rights but I'm pretty sure he's done like I've said it numerous times like yo in 10 years you're going to put it out as like one big book and he's like I don't know I don't know if I want to and it's like you need to make sure that his his story keeps going yeah I'm just so yeah I if I can help in any way that would be really cool too cuz I I got to be there I got to go do shows with Eric and him we traveled and S next together I got to have lunch with him and Lyall Tuttle and and Eddie I I can't remember Stan was there I don't think he was at that show it was like a

Vancouver Washington show and we sat on the river in this little restaurant and I didn't say a word you know I was just like so enamored and just sit there and listen to Lyall tell all these crazy stories about smuggling cocaine and all sorts of wild and another Ladies Man like the dude's those dudes just you know I learned early on with Lyle i' bring everything that I had Lyall Tuttle related the conventions knowing that eventually he was going to find his way to my hotel room and smoke all my weed okay and as long as there was still weed to smoke he'd stick around and just do whatever you asked okay so I'd show up with like 40 different items and be like can you sign these for me and as long as I had weed for him to smoke he would was more than happy as soon as the weed ran out he was like well I got to go one time I got a good story about him one time I ran into him at a Lobby of a a convention in California and he goes to me Philly did you hear I I quit the nose candy now mind you he was like 80 at this point yeah and I was like did you how long has it been ly he goes it's been about 20 minutes but my guy should be here any minute God damn character yeah character yeah there's not enough characters any longer there's not it's wild it's definitely a lot more mellow which has its you know pros and cons but damn so yeah but so back to you collecting like you've got like a beautiful collection of I used I used to have a great machine collection I got rid of a bulk of the

machines my flash I sold off most on my flash what do I I got I got a great power unit collection okay I saw that the other day too on instagam okay I have a great power unit collection I still held on to a bunch of stuff I bought a Jonesy off of at one point I had 17 Jones's in my collection original Jonesy I got one these days and that's the one that I got off of Stanley that they told me um it was built by Jonesy would sell packages as well you could buy you could buy the machines already built or you can buy like you know it sell you a spool of wire and all that so Al Neville would buy them as in that state and build them himself throughout the the winter this way come summertime he didn't even have to tune a machine it would go out of tuny Thro it in the garbage cuz they were that cheap at this point w so he said one morning he woke up to his mother this is Stanley Stanley and and Walter said they woke up to their mother screaming at their father because Al Neville who was staying with them had used all the contact paper out of her cabinets in the kitchen and wrapped the coils with them so when he sold me the machine he was like this is the like him and his brother looked at each other other and chuckled and they were like this is the last one with Mom's contact paper what and it was like what so yeah that that so I'll never get rid of that machine that one's probably going to the Grave with me yeah that's an early 40s Jonesy so you sold off the rest of the stuff to just

like other collector yeah yeah you know as times got harder I'd let go here and there one of my uh dude Eddie that that learned from me years ago in Jersey he he was smart enough to buy up a lot of a lot of stuff off of me he's got all my flash collect a lot of my original flash too he picked up off of me see yeah I I don't I have a handful of original stuff of yours but I would like to get more yeah I got boxes of it where's like big booty girl collection yeah oh yeah yeah yeah the plump rumps yeah that was a great show dude you know I hope that my kids want it but I'm afraid to think of what happens to it after I'm God yeah you know is it going to be place mats yeah huh dang well so you were you're also an inventor you you invented a uh a

dual grip tatto machine what was that tattoo just back to some of your brilliant idea though right Am I Wrong Am I Wrong we in all reality we use it one hand it was good so so you're tattooing on the road now are you were you going to tattoo in Vegas or no no I'm done with Vegas okay so you just come here and hang out with all the saturation has killed me I'm here strictly to spend time with the kids yeah yeah and you're out of scen shop yeah which is another whole another character we didn't even bring up like inventor of I me he was definitely the beginning of new school tattooing nobody was calligraphy in lines before richy scene you know he brought that graffiti art element to tattooing when nobody else was and gave so many people ideas

no you know when you were a graffiti artist in the' 60s 7s and 80s that was it that's as far as you were going to go was scrolling your name on trains yeah and then in the late 80s early 90s when Richie became a household name and tattoo and every graffiti artist you'd run into it be like oh oh there's a there's something else I can do yeah and in by the end of the 90s the bulk of these new school kids came from graffiti backgrounds because Richie made it okay for them to do that you know wild and just rewrote tattooing you know the most unorthodox approach to tattooing I had ever seen yeah like what was it about it you know obviously like his Ting up your lines to begin with and for and for so many artists that sets because you'd see them pull that fresh line and you like hope you're going to cover that but not with him everything was crisp and clean so he was like why are you calligraphy those lines you know but even like I remember the first time he tattooed me he was doing a hard on my stomach and he used instead of going black and then doing your red over it he was mixing the red and the black and the cap to get this brick red and it was like i' had never seen that before yeah you know I'd never seen a tattoo or approach it and and mix like that you know and and it was like hm so you're not going to use black shading you're going to use this red shading instead and then put the other red on I had never seen that before that was unheard of for me and you know everything

every time I'd watch him tattoo i' I'd find new and it was like oh you're not supposed to do that but why is it working so well as an entrepreneur too and him isn't is his spirit is strong like the dude the funny part is he's that guy that gets to the Pinnacle of something and then goes well now I'm done yeah you know I've seen him do it with a million things his motorcycle collection I going to bring up motorcycle collection was the most amazing motorcycle collection I've ever seen in my life yeah and like just one day he was just like okay well I got the greatest motorcycle collection in the world so let me get rid of it yeah did he sell all that oh God he's still holding on to a few I know he still got um big twin he's got a few of them I want to say yeah he's got a few of them left but at one point it was like 40 motorcycles and a 100 of them were show quality you know been on the mag been on covers of how many magazines even if you didn't know a damn thing about motorcycles you stare at that collection you're like what the so beautiful but that's the way he is with so much stuff he gets to the he gets it as far as it can go and then he walks away with tattooing yeah he became a household name with tattooing and then was just like ah it I'm done too many people around me that's it that's it how many shops does he have still just the one okay well that's actually owned by his brother now but he still has a huge part in it but at one point he had there was the shop in in

Manhattan there was a shop another part of the Bron I'm going to say there was probably altogether six or seven different scenes over the years okay but that one has always been there he did some wild as far as promoting his the truck yes so I'm actually working on a book right now Bo I'm not working on it yet but right now it's in the infancy stage where I'm just getting a lot of people together because the shop has been there almost 40 years there's been well over 400 tattooers through the shop yeah and I'm try and compile a book with you know just funny stories about the shop you know the history and and I mean it's all the personalities yeah the amount of people that have been through I mean I got pictures of Big Pun in the waiting room

that's crazy you know like the amount of people who have been through that place and the tattooers that were through there you know just in the time that I was there and then 90s I worked with Amy James Darren brass Lucky Bastard you know so many killer tattooers you know yeah interesting shop so I'm I'm going to try and compile that book and have it done in time for the 40th anniversary which will be the 26 will be the 40th anniversary so I got two years to get it done I had like a lot of goals to do something for our 21st anniversary and I just just drop the B I know the feeling I know the feeling I got enough people involved in this already that know it ain't going to go away easy good yeah focus on it keep I've contacted too many people

about it and they're excited so it's not going to be an easy one to to not do with yeah yeah but yeah I mean when I'm there that's it when I'm at the shop I'm living in the shop you know so it's like I could stay focused yeah when I'm home I'm all over the place no I'm all over the place I can't get nothing accomplish I'm trying to learn how to like compartmentalize myself like if I'm here I'm working here if I'm at the shop I'm only working on if I'm at home I'm only being a dad and maybe a husband a little bit of there just trying to do it all is really hard but if you're in one place and that's all that's around I just feel like I have that the thing that gives me the ability to focus yeah no no I have a hard time focusing at all I do I absolutely do well what else you got going on with tattooing like what do what do you kind of honestly I'm I'm working on a new style these days like I don't want to talk about it because it's a completely different name nobody knows that it's me but I'm working in a completely different style of tattooing 30 years 30 years of working in one specific style pushing one specific style I'm good I set out to impress several tattooers when I got into tattooing and I did it at a very young age yeah you know Stanley moscowitz Tony pedo Steve Delgado you know I I set out to those were the people who I wanted to impress Angelo Scot and I did yeah and now I want to do other because I'm so here we are years later and I'm still like okay well I'm good

at traditional yeah 30 years of working in one style pushing one style I've worked in you know I I do a little bit of everything but I'd like to to become known for other right you know I feel like that's the problem with tattoo is is you get pigeon hold and you just kind of stay there until it pushes you out of the business because you're sick and tired of it like we have the ability to change we have the ability to go you know what I'm okay with this I'd like to try this I'd like to work on this I'd like to do that but and that's another thing is like with Instagram you have the opportunity to be more than one person yeah you know what instead of having that portfolio with 10 different styles why not be 10 different tattooers right you got 10 coals in that you know you got 10 irons in that fire yeah so you got a much better opportunity of pulling more customers if you're 10 people as opposed to one dude with a very varied portfolio you focus mainly all your time and energy as far as social media goes just into like Instagram or yeah no I don't mess with any other that's too much this is too much for me Instagram is too much for I put up a real in weeks I'm like what am I going to do yeah how do you go about writing those just ideas pop in your head and yeah uh smoking weed talking that's it yeah yeah one of my friends complaining that's the big what's everyone complaining about this weekend normally I'll be able to get an idea out of that yeah but it's hard it's hard you

know and then I'll have an idea that I'm cultivating for weeks then somebody else puts it up and I'm like I slapped I slept too long the the Instagram God say just redo it do it in your own St yeah it'll pick up I'm having fun with it though I can't complain I'm having fun with it I enjoy this IG when something gets viral like that I I get so excited I get so excited you stoned by yourself like bumped on it that's it that's it you know I love it I blame myself when goes wrong yeah these days I've learned that when goes right to Pat myself on the back yeah do you know that's really that's a big deal because I I've never given myself credit for anything ever I always just try to keep my head down and just work and I I'm learning to the older I get the more I'm like well I mean I actually did do something here you know and like yeah I don't know you know keep St still stay humble obviously proud of yourself kids are a big part of that kids are a big part of that they help you ground I've learned to like myself being a that it's the best you know it's fun it's hard as a tattoo or two though and like a business owner it's like I mean I don't like to say anything's hard because everything can be hard but it's a challenge you know like I want to work all day long and then but then when I get home I'm like oh work I want to do this forever like we shouldn't be working so much and then I got my my 15-year-old who's like why I think I want a tattoo and I'm like no absolutely not yeah

Nick BS is teaching his kid out tto I know I know dang yeah that's a tough one that's a tough one so we've I don't know man I mean I I want to talk about so much stuff but I I think we're pretty good here right on there's always always round too there to down I want to do a bunch of other fun stuff with you yeah I want to I want to hear more like in depth stories about specific you know people that have influenced you in your life and motivated you through tattooing and oh there's so many of them yeah there's so many I like that so I've been blessed to have you in my life and you got to work I feel the same way I feel the same way I love your family yeah it's good I appreciate it dude thanks so much for coming down and doing this thank you for having me what uh how does everybody reach you Instagram Instagram Phil luck tat Phil luck tat F Luck tattoo watch some stupid yeah I can't promise you going to see anything good but you'll laugh well thanks for doing all those and thanks for doing this me right on man I appreciate you brother love you too all right guys thank you so much for tuning in this is it man be sure to check out filuck and all the fun that he's doing so thank you guys we appreciate it have a good day peace

There's AA off shotgun under my station if anything pops off just shoot first and ask questions later he's like you're in the wild west now oh my God that was my first day in Vegas and I was like I don't know what I just walked into it was running with the devil and it was like 101° at the start of it so it was at 6:00 a.m. I started running and I did 50 mil in the desert yeah it's funny cuz if I see other people do it I'm like oh that's really fun but when I go to do it I'm like but I I feel dumb doing it like even though I love watching it welcome to sporty local tattoo this is Austin Spencer and today I'm super excited about a longtime buddy of mine fantastic local tattoo an accomplished marathon runner yeah health nut rock climber traveler uh an allaround fantastic kind dude did I say fantastic twice you never say yeah I know I think so so welcome Nick bones he's my dude so basically what we do we just kind of get into the nitty-gritty I like learning about people's past I love how all of us have these unique weird funky stories about how the hell we got into this weird ass industry and how we survived what makes us unique and you have so many fun things to offer and I've always admired like your ability to stay in one place focus on your Niche you're never afraid to grow and go so I don't know I just kind of want to hear a little bit about like where you came from you started at Tattooing in Las Vegas right or no uh I started I did my apprenticeship in Ohio so I

learned in Ohio and then I moved to Vegas as soon as I was done with my basically were you wen at truth and Triumph right or no no no it was it was pre- truth and Triumph at the time truth and Triumph was called smart bomb but I learned in Oxford Ohio okay um so I grew up in a small town in Ohio in Middletown Ohio yeah uh which was kind of just the middle of Cincinnati and Dayton so it's like yeah like a suburb um and then drive I went to school in a farm suburb of that small town okay so like yeah so I was definitely like the weird kid in high school who just I did good in school but I just didn't click with anybody and so I would just kind of stick to myself and like maybe three or four people and I would just like hang out and draw and we were all like the punk rock kids in the small area yeah um and then as I got older I always I was drawing my whole life as soon as I was like holding a pencil I was trying to draw things and always upset obessed with cartoons and comic books and I thought I wanted to do something in that field growing up and then I remember watching a documentary about like how Disney cartoons are made and I was like this looks terrible like unless you're the man who's designing it like you're just the Middler like a fact and you just like they give you the key frames and you draw all the middle frames and I was like oh I don't want to do that at all yeah and so I was like well maybe I'll be maybe comics and I was like looked into that and I was like

well that's really hard to get into and so I kind of was just like the Arts in small towns aren't super supported yeah so the whole time I was thinking about wanting to be an artist like you know like everybody around me is like well what factor are you going to work at while you draw you know like that's basically your only option in that small town and so I was just like well I'm not going to do that but I don't know what to do with art and then as I got later in high school I started you know found myself in the punk rock community and people would come to me be like hey can you design this tattoo for me like I have an idea for a tattoo and so I would draw their tattoos and then go with them while they got it tattooed and I was like wait

why are you paying this dude for yart that's my story dude that's right I didn't know that and so I was like okay I really want to get an apprenticeship and I had a friend who was a piercer at a shop and so I reached out to him we played music together and I was like hey I really want to get an apprenticeship I want to do this right like I don't want to just get stuff in tattoo a home and and at the time this is 2003 2004 like it was hard to get stuff like you had to get it send to a tattoo shop like cam or you know like they wouldn't just send to a house at the time yeah yeah and so I was like well I really want to get an apprenticeship like I don't know what to do and so I went and talked to the owner of that shop and he was going to Apprentice me and I didn't know anybody in tattooing at the time and there were two tattoo shops in my town no tattoos are sell or anything like yeah I had yeah I'd not gotten any tattoos at this point like and so was he intimidating it was so intimidate yeah he was just big biker dude you know like it was trying to paint the picture there just standard the cliche B West's like biker tattoo shop yeah and uh I walk in and he's like you know I have like the little portfolio of Like Comics that I've drawn and stuff and he looked through and he was like yeah I can teach you and he was like tell you what actually trying to open my own tattoo shop so let me give you a list of supplies you have to buy for me and then I'll teach you to tattoo and I

was like okay and so he just like basically had me like buy everything to open a tattoo shop for him that was my way in like from Walmart or whatever from well it was like from cam oh yeah so it was just like yeah like here's here's the stuff you have to buy and I was like okay and so just like ordered a bunch of stuff and then I paid him I think it was at the time it was like $2,000 or something oh D which was a lot of money when you I was working yeah I was working at at like a gas station and stuff and so I was was like desperate so I was like okay well here took me so long and I finally saved out the money and gave it to him and then I just never heard from him again and so it was like three weeks later and I was like reached out to my friend I was like hey have you heard from this guy like I don't know what's going on and he goes like oh yeah he died of hairin Overdose holy like he took all your money and bought drugs and then and then passed away and I was like oh that's can I get my money back like I don't know what to do so I was just like oh okay and so that was my first attempt at apprenticeship and I was like I don't know what to do like I'm totally lost right now and so you ever told me that story before yeah and then I finally while I was doing that I ended up getting this leopard print tattooed on me by a friend of a friend who we ended up becoming like you know closer friends yeah and I was like well I guess I could Apprentice under this guy but like really he

wasn't very good yeah but I was like but I just need a way in yeah yeah yeah damn and so I talked to his shop and it was the same thing like okay it was $2,000 and I was like oh my God I have to do this all over again and so I was saving up the money and I had like I think 1,500 bucks or something and then one of my friends came to one of our punk rock shows and he had this like new tattoo like right on top of his arm and it was incredible it was like the best tto it I'd seen in this small town ever in my life and I was like where did you get that and he was like oh it's Oxford it was like an hour away from where we lived okay and I was like I'm going there tomorrow yeah and I literally went there the next day and I was like I saw this tattoo you did on my friend Brandon it was the best tattoo I've ever seen I need you to teach me the tattoo and he was super kind about it and it was same thing you know like you have to pay but you can just pay me an installments just come in and I'll teach you and it was a little twom man shop super tiny in this town Oxford called vertigo tattoo and they were both like exactly my Pace like they were like the owner used to own a comic book store and started tattooing and then the guy who taught me to tattoo who actually ended up like teaching me to tattoo was like super into comics and new school stuff and like that's reading books yeah so it was like meant to be like so then I ended up apprenticing there was where I finally like went

through with it yeah how long did you guys go along with that for it was my apprenticeship was like two and a half three years damn okay yeah it was like I mean it was I I started working there like the last year is but I don't I I still count as part of my yeah yeah did you do the whole like learn how to make needles of bar yeah yeah everything so that was the first year of my apprenticeship was just like you come in you count the needles if there's less than I think it was if there's less than 10 of them you make 20 of that needle okay and so you just like inventory system yeah so like you count and you're like okay there's nine I have to make 20 of those in the account and you're like there's nine of those too yeah were they reusing the needles at the time no the bars they were reusing the bars so you had to like unsolder the needle off the bar and then scrub it and then make that but yeah that was some weird yeah yeah looking back at it like it's so like oh just throw everything away it's eight cense it's fine yeah I mean I guess all of our dental tools and doctor tools back in the day were all reused too but it was yeah some people don't know about that yeah yeah so yeah it was all steel tubes all you know like I did the whole old school thing where you know you're in this little tiny closet with no ventilation like just yeah and solder like uh I did that way too much actually and I you know was in like the hardcore scene so it was like basketball shorts every day and

you'd be soldering and then you'd like Drop solder and go straight through your basketball shorts like okay well those are ruined D that's fun so like okay so you did all that for a while and your relationships are pretty good and healthy with those guys yeah was two guys were there yeah it was two guys there and so actually uh Kelly sson yeah he apprenticed there too so he came on while I was doing my Apprentice sh became the piercer at that shop oh wow and so he was piercing while I was tattooing and like we were both like apprenticing together basically yeah and then when I moved away he decided he wanted to start tattooing dude that's a second it's so weird sometimes the piercer you get it they got their foot in the door through piercing but sometimes they become some of the most phenomenal tattooers it's so crazy like so I was tattooing there was right it was probably a few months before I moved to Vegas and I didn't even know he drew he was going to it was an old college town and he was going to that college for uh metal smithing and so he was getting his master's degree and like being a metal Smith okay yeah and so I didn't even know he drew but I mean he's going to art school so like I but I just didn't put two and two together and I was tattooing and somebody walked in and wanted some random tattoo I don't remember what it was and he was like he came up and he was like can I draw it for you while you're tattooing for the next tattoo and I was like yeah I guess

like go ahead and then he shows it to me and it's the best dra and I was like what are you doing why are you piercing this doesn't make any s and so yeah once I moved away he ended up a fracing and okay and then now he is what he is fantastic tattooer um dude you have some you have some like Ohio ties to some really great tattooers too and were you you were my like link to Ohio right yeah and I've still to this day always I'm like why is everybody so nice from Ohio like everybody at least the ones we're meeting all the ones that I would be friends with like I mean Robbie Big M like Kelly Kelly's in Chicago now but he was yeah yeah like all those dudes like stall Nick Sall like yeah like all those dudes like it's really funny cuz they were all like Robbie I grew up with him like I knew him in Middle School Robbie Bower right yeah yeah Rob Wild on Instagram yeah uh but yeah we were good friends growing up and so we both he started tattooing right around the same time I did yeah now him and Josh have Rebel Rebel and in they're in Dayton yeah they're in proper Dayton downtown Dayton yeah and they in big me shops in Dayton out too okay so it he had one in Columbus and then he sold like that was like a partnership so that then you bought like a building and yeah beautiful yeah so cool go M we love you yeah dang dude that's sght so then how did you okay get the wild hair up your ass I remember your some of your stories are pretty goddamn funny about you moving to Vegas and like

yeah getting your your your initial like intro to a shop was on Las Vegas Boulevard on the North side which is even it's still kind of rough but back rough dud so while I was doing my apprenticeship I was dating a hair stylist who was in school and we both finished like right around the same time hair sty taters I know I yeah yeah it's trouble and so we just knew we wanted to leave Ohio like I was my whole life I was just like this isn't I love my friends yeah but I don't want to live here like everybody outside of my group I don't want to deal with yeah and I just knew that growing up like I just like I would ask I was raised by my aunt and I would ask her all time like we'd go on vacation like why are we going back yeah I don't understand

this like this is cool here let's stay here um and so I was just like I just want to live somewhere outside of Ohio and so my girlfriend at the time finished cosmetology school and I was like where do you want to go and so we literally just Googled like where does an Ohio cosmetology license transfer to oh okay and so that's where we pick it was New York or Nevada was like just straight no more continuing education like you can just transfer it and so we she was like well my mom is from Las Vegas I don't know anybody there but I know I technically have family there so let's go out there and so we literally like flew out it was the first year hell city was in Phoenix I don't know what year this7 okay yeah it was 2007 and so we flew to LA and

then drove to Phoenix just to go to Hell City cuz I was like I just want to like talk to some people from Vegas before I go there and get some advice and I want to go to pel City yeah and uh so we went there and just like that was the biggest convention like if you talk to people who went to it like that was like the convention you know I just went up and I talked to Jimmy litwalk cuz he was tattoo in here at the time and I was like hey what advice do you have like I'm I want to move to Las Vegas like where do I go and he had a few shops that he recommended he was like you just need to get experience like cuz I had my portfolio with me and and he was like you're your work's fine you just need experience like you just need to tattoo go somewhere busy don't worry about the name or like you know the reputation just get work and so he gave me a few places to go to and that was really cool like getting to talk to your Idols yeah no for sure he I've actually have little moments with him too where he's offered like GameChanger advice where like woke me up I was like oh yeah you're right I'm dumb I should be doing that yeah and so then we came up to Vegas and I went to like every shop I could think of I this was back in the days when there was I didn't have a smartphone so I just opened the phone book and just went through and called every tattoo shop like hey are you looking for an artist like I'm looking the move here and then I ended up calling one shop uh called absolute Inc

and I in there anymore Joey hefs was the artist there was Joey Vegas at the time okay he owns reverence that too now oh okay okay yeah yeah yeah yeah uh so he was the artist there no and so he was like hey come on down and I was like okay so I brought my portfolio and he was like yeah your work's okay like it's you're just out of your apprenticeship that's that's what your work looks like and he was like but we I mean we talked for like an hour just about how much I loved tattooing and I was like I just really want to get in a place where I can like continue to learn and like row and he was like okay when can you start and I was like I got to go to Ohio and pack all my stuff up and move back and I was like a month and he was like okay cool you got it like you're in and it was like Las Vegas Boulevard and Charleston I'm so excited like I got a job in Vegas on the Strip you know like I didn't know any better and so I fly back to Ohio and we're like starting to plan for like hey we have a month to pack everything up and figure everything out and find a place and the owner of that shop calls and he was like hey I heard Joey offered you a job and I was like yeah and he goes yeah he didn't have the right to do that he was like he's not the owner like he's just an artist here and I was like oh and he was like but he you know he explained who you are and how excited you were I'm going to give you a shot and I was like okay like I'll I'll take it and he was like but I need you here in

a week oh and so I was like I'm there like whatever I have to do and so we literally just sold we we had a PT Cruiser at the time and we packed up everything that fit in the PT Cruiser and sold everything that didn't fit yeah for like nothing and then just drove out and I get to to the shop he's like okay Joey's in jail that's why I needed you here so it's like he was wild back then yeah he was and it it was yeah it was like a whole thing but he so the hell was why he hired me was because he needed me to cover him while he was going to jail for 30 days oh okay and so that's literally how I got my job in in Las Vegas is because Joey was going to jail and you jumped right in there as the main artist yeah like it the owner dude a tattooer at the time he was a tatto but he was never there oh okay and so literally my first day tattoing outside of my apprenticeship at this like nerdy comic book owned you know like where everybody was on the same page like I show up and I there's one artist who it was like 10 to six one artist and then 6 to 2: a.m. and I was the 6 to 2 a.m. guy oh yeah and I show up at 5: to get set up and everything and the dude was like oh you're here I'm going to take off and literally just left me at the shop alone by myself my very first day my God in the in a rough ass neighborhood in a rough neighborhood like it was it's still real wild there and when that door opens you're almost excited but terrified at the same time yeah yeah I'm like which one's it going

to be how's this going to go like I don't really know I don't want to buy meth or stolen shopping cart TV and at the time I had dreadlocks like down to here oh yeah so everybody who walked by cuz it was before weed was legal and they would walk in and be like hey man where can get some weed I'm like I'm straight Ed like I don't know like this is deceiving I know and they would just be like no you can I'm cool man you can tell me and I'm like I don't know man like I genuinely don't know I've been here for a day yeah yeah yeah yeah and so I'm I walk in the door the guy leaves and then we just start getting walk-ins and I just tattoo all night and it's like literally like 2 2:30 and I'm finally finishing my last tattoo and the owner calls and he was like how was your first day and I was like scary terrified and he was like oh man do you own a gun I was like no I've never even touched one why are you asking damn and he's like well there's a s shotgun under my station if anything pops off just shoot first and ask questions later and he's like you're in the wild west now oh my God that was my first day in Vegas and I was like I don't know what I just walked into oh my God so that was my first day Tattooing in pegas yeah and then it got progressively weirder I'm sure there's some good walk-ins there yeah there were good walk-ins and then by the time I was there for like a year year and a half and Joey had left at this point so it was like oh okay just me and like one other artist

and like it ended up getting super weird with that owner like I'd never dealt with somebody who was on drugs before oh oh he himself was yeah yeah and so like I never experienced like what meth does to a person's mind speaker that's not good that's sound good and so he comes in one day and he's just like he had fired everybody except for me like I was literally the only artist and so I would just at that time I started working like new into midnight like I was just there all day like every day and I was just like I don't is this normal like I don't know this doesn't seem normal but I don't know what else to do so he had fired everybody and then he fired The Apprentice like the day before I don't know why there was no imprest there anyway and he comes in he's like I figured it out I was like what' you figure out and he had fully convinced himself that I was a spy from another tattoo shop down the street because he found a business card after we closed like that shop had just walked by and like stuck a business card on our like gate yeah and he that convinced him that I was a spy from another tattoo shop sent here to steal his identity and take over his tattoo shop and he knows that the owner of that shop just recently bought the house that he's renting and he's going to kick him out of his house and his shop and take over everything all at once and meanwhile I'm just like taking my pictures off the wall and just putting them on my toolbox like cool man I'm glad figured it

out you want to help me load this up in my car cuz I'm never going to talk to you again Fu ow bro yeah so that was the last your last day there that was my last day nothing lined up you were just like no it was that was on a Friday and I was just like I'm taking the weekend off and then I'll figure it out on Monday like I don't know what's going to happen how would yeah so he he was just doing the old school like pay you out every day like cash day yeah it was cash only and then I just would do a drop every day and just keep the cash like that I made did you guys even write like a anything on slips or anything or it was just literally like it was on the envelope it was like here's how much is in here like yeah it wasn't even like or anything so yeah I think it was just literally like here's $600 and he just get high and come in and try to open that box like try to get whatever out of it God damn people are wild it's so crazy how people can run businesses like that like it's hard enough to run it sober and so I showed up and it was a the shop had been there for 10 years and so I was like oh this is well established you know and it was probably you know the first five six years he was probably like on it yeah and then by the time I was there like by the time I left there like he tattooed once a month you know damn so but I had really cool experiences with that guy up till that point yeah yeah yeah like that was who he had the mobile tattoo truck so we would go to bike

rallies and I would tattoo with him like one the one summer I was there like we went and tattooed in Hollister we went and tattooed up in like Northern California we went and did Sturgis together like we did Reno like we did we would travel around in this like Snap-on truck that he turned into a tattoo shop and I was like this is the coolest experience ever yeah that's wild and so we got super close like over that and then just one day it just went downhill did you tour with bands back in the day or you were in music and okay so you kind of were accustomed to that type of Lifestyle just kind of adapted it to like a new thing where you can make cash yeah I always had a hard time like imagining you with these bikers cuz you're oh it was the worst yeah I did not fit in at all just clean C yeah I I'm I'm good at I'm kind of a chameleon where I can kind of just mesh with anything but like that was definitely like I know how to talk to them the way they want to be talked to but it's so like out of my comfort zone for and you you're good at taking it as it comes at you like all the weird you know I think is a skill set in its own just being around all those people and not letting it kind of phase you and just run off yeah just roll right back with it you know just get through whatever bro like yeah but I think that's why I do so good at Tattooing in like Street shop situations is because I can when somebody walks in I can be like this is how this person wants me to talk to them

yeah and then I can just sell myself the way they want to be talked to and and just show genuine interest in whatever you know just like you like learning so yeah I know a little bit about everything so when somebody walks in I'm like I know what that's from and I know this and we can like relate really quick which is dude it's so it's so hard for some people and some people don't even attempt you know like the headphone generation or whatever you want to call people are just like I'm the best and then they take their headphones off and just it's this much yeah go over there okay but there yeah there I feel like there's something lost there but that's just my Approach and my opinion genuinely the world we grew up in wasn't like that no you weren even allowed to be dude Heen for if I if I was in a shop I had headphones on yeah and I I wasn't listening to this also we would have to have a cord mixed up in other cords yeah and the Slayer album that's been on repeat for 14 hours straight and my boss is a tweaker not a tweaker but definely some traits I'm like okay man whatever you want to call yourself like the Slayer for 14 hours is exhausting tattooing under like neon light and like you're like is this blue or is this green I don't know what's going on to read the bottle you're like okay I guess teal and and tattooing around bikers was pretty wild yeah but so it's like so much more pleasant tattooing around your tribe nowadays yeah yeah it's definitely it's one of those things

where it was like I'm so glad I have the experience because now I know what I don't want to ever do again I had the opportunity to open up small shops inside of tattoo or Harley dealerships and I was like I'm good yeah just I don't really care about the money I don't want to that doesn't sound appealing try to find tattooers that want to sit there and do Harley shields on tourist all day long cuz that's the hardest tattoo ever made you've ever tattooed it's like 700 perfectly parallel lines and I've it up more than one time for you're like you know be cool is if we shaded half these letters and then also the background can we make this out of stones so that was my goto for every make it out of stone be so unique you would be so different from everybody yeah except for the other tin that I did exactly like this that was always after I blew out the line the line just didn't be bold away WIP they or they reach for something and you're like and you're like yeah you know what actually it's so now you don't even have a choice you're good dude this is really cool man nobody has this didn't you end up going into the onto the strip after that like so you you were like on the strip and not in a casino back in the day uh so I went to like the diversity family of shops for a little bit so I worked at tattoo heaven for okay like which was just a little closer to the yeah yeah and so I did that wild it that was even crazier that was like Sahara that's where they filmed all bum fight

stuff like all those walk by all the time yeah and so bu lock themselves in there in your shop and yeah it's and that was that was the first time I really experienced like Cutthroat tattooers where they were just like the rule is the first artist that shows up gets the first Walkin and so they would show up like two hours early because they had a key and I didn't and I'm like what how am I supposed to get that leg up and so they would take the first walk in and then the next person who walked in they' be like oh this is my appointment I'm like you had an appointment and you still took the first Walkin and then you'd find out that wasn't actually an appointment that was just another Walkin they just walked up like they knew them and then it was like yeah that so that was the first time I really experienced that I was like yeah I thought you're supposed to like work with your friends like so know yeah yeah yeah those are why I never actually got to work in those shops but I was aware of I worked in a shop that was similar but it wasn't as aggressive like on the Strip it was all go like you grab that money dude it was like one of the more motivating uh motivated tattooer cultures though yeah was there early yeah yeah they don't even want to get up and go walk in go walk to talk to the walkin just like yeah so yeah so I was there for a little while not I didn't last long cuz I didn't didn't have the right mentality for it like like I just want to be friendly with my co-workers

and like hang out and like this isn't for me and so then I left there and went inside the Riviera back when the Riviera was there there was a Three Lions tattoo shop in there yeah yeah and that's where that's where I met like most of the people who I'm still friends with in Vegas today yeah cuz a lot of they were cranking out a lot of apprentices it was Apprentice Factory for sure but all the apprentices they picked just happened to Inc yeah so it was like Tyson Kelsey Holly uh Jessie uh Dracula oh yeah yeah yeah um Leah Ryan gray like all the people in Vegas like they were all the apprentices at that shop like it was crazy it was like so much talent like in the apprentices yeah and that was a little tiny tattoo shop on the casino floor which was was it more one one of the first ones that were in the casinos it was early it was yeah yeah so I mean there was the Starlight okay and then what was the one of the Palms yeah hard hting HT so it was Harden Huntington hard Huntington was the first yeah yeah yeah and then that was like one of the first ones and it was just it was a weird culture but it was like it was cool and then that's where I started working with Mike okay M Mr Bigs yeah and the owner of that shop was like an entrepreneur himself too right did he like have that and a bar and a yeah he had a PB and something else like he had he the one that created the after care yeah yeah yeah so he did yeah he had an Aftercare he before that he had like a suntan lotion and

then he like just pivoted into Aftercare once he got into tattooing and I don't know what he's doing now but he's always has like three or four no a character yeah and he kind of let you guys do whatever the you want in that shop yeah he didn't know what it was supposed to be like okay you know like he didn't he didn't understand like what a tattoo shop was supposed to be run like he's like oh it's probably just chaos go ahead and do whatever you want yeah and so that was I had met Mike through first Friday Mike bigs yeah through first Friday I'd done one of his group art shows like the month that I moved here oh cool and I was just like this dude's art is incredible I just want to be friends with him yeah and so I did an art like just the the most terrible acrylic painting ever yeah like but it was sci-fi themed and whatever and then it's funny at he came to my 40th birthday last month and gave me that painting back that was his present he had kept it all this time that's funny but I had met him through that and then I bought another painting off of him while I was working at that shop and he was like yeah I just started tattooing a little bit with my cousin and I was like you should come work with me yeah I had no right there were like qualifications to be able to hire him but I was just like you should come work with me and so then him and I just like worked the same schedule and just like became best friends like over like the year that he worked there with me yeah you

got any like funny or weird stories that pop off about just the interactions with clients there cuz I I remember you guys telling me just like a lot of weird different cultures that came through there because of like a trade show would be in town be like a bunch of pool players over yeah so yeah we would do just flash sheets based on whatever the convention was yeah that's a great idea and just like so Defcon the hacker convention would come through and like we'd have a bunch of nerdy art up and like there would be a teachers convention and we would just do a bunch of like apples and you know teacher typ Flash and it was just like you would know what convention was coming and you would just like draw to cater to them yeah and that was nobody's ideas but y'all like that just kind of like a culture that created inside within the artist y That's great yeah it was really cool yeah it was it was it wasn't a bad time it was just it was fine were you hours hours crazy there too or did you get on more of a regular schedule uh so I there it was long like it was open late you know like they actually because it was a casino they had to be open like X tox you know like whatever like time and so but me and Mike just worked the morning shift so we would do 10 to six oh yeah soad yeah all right cool and then from there did you come over to Studio 2 straight straight to Studio 21 yeah cuz you hired Mike oh yeah okay and then like cuz I knew Mike by growing up here in Las Vegas so yeah

and so he he came to me and he was like I'm so sorry but they're hiring me and like and at that time like I knew you guys were like you know like just from being in a Tattooing in Las Vegas like that was one of the shops you know and then uh he was like yeah they they asked me to come work they they asked me to come work with him and he was like super like afraid to tell me thinking that he's like betraying me like leaving me and I was like no dude that's awesome like that's the coolest thing ever like that's one of the big chops in Vegas like that's that's a big name you know and uh so he got there and then he would like call me like every week and be like hey we're doing an art show at this them you should come do cuz that was when we were doing the first Friday every month had the gallery yeah yeah yeah yeah and so he was like this is the theme for the art show just do a couple paintings and so I'd like do a couple paintings and come bring him like hey here's my art work good you know and then like I think it was like two or three months later I ended up working working there with you too jumped to him and we did 10 years together right 11 11 yeah 11 years damn that's impressive that's fun and that like Studio 21 is really where I honed everything yeah you know like that's where I was working with artists that were so much better than me so I was just like okay I can I one I got to step it up and two I can learn a lot from just like watching everybody and asking

questions and it was like real communal you know art shows together and stuff T yeah monthly art shows and we we we had a good habit of every single time there was like we if we weren't tattooing we it was just we would go to the back room and paint like yeah yeah the second you started painting of course and someone would walk in which is a good thing yeah or there would be like a rainy day type where we all would just paint like all afternoon yeah but that's what I mean all my best friends now I met you know there like swarm you know like he was there the whole time I was there basically and then Jason Paxman like so close to yeah yeah I could to get him on too yeah and then you know bigs obviously still really close with them that's fun we did a lot of fun things together when then we traveled at that time we were doing so you you took me back to Ohio the hell City there for tattoo that's we did we tattoo Fight Club yeah yeah and then we did like Boston and I sure we did did we do quite a bit together we did a couple yeah so I think we did like Austin or something remember yeah I was doing a lot at that time yeah and and we all kind of rotated out cuz not everybody but yeah I did I did a handful of conventions with you and do you do much conventions anymore or I do like one or two a year yeah yeah it's it's a lot the culture's changed down it is I I want to start doing more cuz I have like a two-year plan of as of this month our lease is up in two years so like we're

building out that camper van and I just want to like travel for like two years and just tattoo on the road yeah that's I super excited about that for you tell me yeah tell me about a little bit about that Vision cuz like you never lived like full-fledged like a vagabond yet right like no I mean in the bands you know when I was touring and stuff that was kind of like that but I've never like never in a way where it was affordable like where you can actually you know support yourself and stuff so so how you going to line up your I I'm still kind of I want to start doing more conventions now so that I can meet more people and make more connections yeah and that I can kind of plan for you know 2 years from now if I'm doing a bunch of conventions hopefully I meet enough people to do guest spots across like I just want to travel yeah like I love traveling and so I'm building out a massive Sprinter band right now I'm excited to see it yeah I I youve had it for a while project and now I have like now I made myself set a deadline like okay it has to be done by this day so I can finally like but yeah the so it's going to be fully livable like and I just want to do it's scary I mean change is always scary yeah but like it's scary to think like okay well I've spent my entire my real career in Vegas yeah so now to just be like okay well I have super steady clientele here but like now I have to leave so like I still I want to like you could work it into where you have like you

know you two and back down my plan is just like fill my book for like two weeks yeah and then as much as you absolutely love like rock climbing and stuff I'm assuming you want to go to some like epic spots so then maybe start dming all the shops in those areas and that way that kind of puts you there yeah and then you can get in there work go do your thing with the rock climbing and um jump back in the van and then maybe go to the next spot and the next spot yeah so I think with the technology that we have now where you can just like like advertise on Instagram in one GE location you know like I feel like that's going to help a lot it's always scary like change is always scary but I feel like now we can I can be like okay well here's our tour that we're going to do you know we'll be gone for two months and then we'll be back in Vegas for a couple weeks to tattoo everybody we're going to be here then here and then here and then here and then I'll just do you know advertised Instagram ads for those spots yeah and then just kind of show up at the shops yeah build your own I don't know if you have your own website but you should definely do yeah build your own website and then you know work on that mailer list and start just trying to like convince everybody to consistently check up on you through the stuff so yeah I'm I I love traveling is like my favorite thing in the world so I'm going to do a guest spot in Hawaii next okay the end of next month yeah yeah what what part uh

Wahoo okay yeah so I went and got tattooed out there like a month ago and then our friends that lived there wanted us to like house it for him and I was so I just reached out to the shop and I was like hey I got tattooed there I was hanging out with the owner like can I come tattoo and so I'm going to tattoo there for a week and then just chill for a week yeah that's tighted so that'll be a little tester you know what's weird I've never done a guest spot 20 I don't know how long I've been tattooing since what 2000 and I've never like I've just done conventions and then we I we opened up and I just our shop and I just was so busy so long and I never took advantage of that part of the culture which kind of was not a regret but like you know it just didn't work out for me in that way doesn't mean I can't do it in the future so I'm kind of hoping like I'm going to you know reput myself out there uncomfortable situations where um you know you're intimidated and you get to go in and work in these shops and work around good people and try to like revamp my tattooing and I think that's where a lot of growth in art and tattooing comes from is from putting yourself in places where you're scared or where you're nervous anything and everything right like every every anytime you do anything new it's you're not going to be the greatest at it but you could like study and practice and try like I don't know it's you got to do it though if you're not doing it then you're just stagnant and

that's no fun you're a learner you love to learn I love to learn yeah and I love to be scared and I love to like push myself and get outside of my comfort zone and yeah kind of what I want to talk to you too about you you talked about self-discipline and getting out of your comfort zone all that is like tell us like a little bit more about the you've always been an avid Runner and you were you into the like the multi-terrain courses or what do they call those like um yeah like the obstacle course races and stuff I did that's what actually got me into running was starting with those yeah so I started working at student 21 and I wasn't s i when I was younger I was always outside like being active and playing sports and stuff and then when I got to Vegas like I just like kind of that just took a backseat CU I was like okay I need to focus on learning how to tattoo and then I got to Studio 21 got comfortable started just eating a bunch of junk food like I've always I've been vegetarian since I was 8 years old but I was I was a Junk Food Vegetarian for a lot of it and so I was just getting lazy and eating kind of garbage food like fast food just whatever yeah and then I don't even know if he knows this but Jesse the tattooer that I tattooed with at Three Lions came in one time just to drop off some art for one of our art shows yeah and he just walks in and me and him were always like just always messed with each other and he just walks in he just looks me up and down he goes you

got fat and I didn't even like didn't even register you know yeah I was just like well I'm you know I'm stagnant and I'm not doing much and he literally just like looks me up and down he goes you got fat and like we always just messed with each other and I was like H and just laughed it off and he left and I was like oh my God I got fat like I've never like my whole life nobody's ever said that to me cuz I've always been skinny and so I was just like literally that next day I just had a pair of tennis shoes and I was like I'm going to see how far I can run and literally like the that he's the one who motivated me to start getting healthy and uh the truth hurts but most likely helps us um and I had gone vegan at that point and know how to do

it no I was just like okay well I just don't eat cheese yeah I don't like I don't know what else to do Fanny Pack full of Twizzlers you like a mullet and a fanny pack Twizzlers yeah you know junk food and so one of my friends I met through being vegan was like Hey we're doing the Spartan Race do you want to do it with like me and my daughter and I was like yeah absolutely I had no idea what it was I was just like yeah let's do it sign me up and so he did and then like it was like 4 weeks out he like sent me a link to it and I thought it was like a 5k Fun Run thing okay it was not no they're likeing you in the mud and yeah like it was crazy you're like climbing over these walls and like jumping into like ice baths and swimming underneath things and like I was like Oh I thought we were like running through some bubbles or something like I didn't know and so marshmallow yeah so from the from the time he sent me that link of what it was to the race was like 4 weeks and I was like okay it's an 8 mile race I didn't know this damn so I was like I need to add two miles every week to be able to run8 Miles and so literally like I couldn't run a mile at that point oh and so I just I realized my neighborhood was half a mile around and so I was like if I can run one of these I'll let myself walk the next one and so I just did that until by the time the race came around I was like up to eight miles like I ran eight miles like the week before that yeah that's great dude and then I did

that race and I was like that was the coolest thing I've ever done like that was like I feel accomplished right now yeah and so then I signed up for a 13 Mile one and then I signed then I like I did two years of like the obstacle course SL running and then I realized that running was like the thing that I was really in love with and so I just started just seeing how far I could go and so I started running a little bit more each time and then I signed up for a half Marathon which was 13 miles and so I was like okay let me see if I can do that and so I just I did it and I was like okay well I accomplished it and then I wanted to see how far I could go I was like wonder if I can do a full Marathon let's just see and so I started training for that and then I did a full Marathon uh in Scotland while I was there I wanted my first one to be like epic yeah and so we had this trip to Europe coming up and I was like I'm just going to see we have one weekend free I'm going to see if there are any marathons in Europe that time and so I was like okay well we can either go to Nottingham cuz there's a Robin Hood Marathon or we can go to Scotland for the Loch Ness Marathon whoa and so I just let my girlfriend at the time pick and so she was like let's go to Scotland so I ran the loch nest Marathon dang that's cool and it's still to this day my fastest marathon really my watch strap broke and I didn't know how fast I was going oh so you just so I just like pushing yourself picked some guy

who I was talking to at the start line and I was like all right well I'm just going to run with this guy and so I'm running and the M markers are just melting away and I'm like oh they must be kilometers like we're in Europe like they're probably kilometer markers yeah and so then we get to the 13.1 which is halfway and it has a clock and I was like oh I just did my fastest half marathon while running a marathon I need to slow down like I'm not going to be able to finish yeah and so it's still like my fast it was like 340 for my for my full Marathon dang and you've gone on to push even further right yeah so then did a couple 50ks which is like 33 miles and then I did a 50 mile out here in Vegas uh was the Running With the Devil yeah the one

in uh Death Valley uh no well this is in it's like level Canyon Okay um that one that's like my goal is death I think I learned about it three years it's like but yeah so the the one that I did was running with the devil and it was like 101° at the start of it so was at 6:00 a.m. I started running and I did 50 miles in the desert yeah which is how long did that take you cuz that's like all day right it ended up taking me like 12 hours cuz it was just so hot straight straight straight yeah just just running the whole time and then I was like okay well I did that and so I was like now I want to see if I can do a 100 mile and so I did uh last or the October before last I did 100 mile race 100 mile I yeah I did 100 miles yeah how does your body

how does your body take that it's mad yeah so it's it's honestly it's it's very physical but it's very mental yeah like I went into that race just I was like I just know I'm going to finish like you just have to know before you even start like I'm going to keep going until I finish even my training like I didn't train that far my longest training run was like 18 miles leading just did a lot of but I did a lot yeah so I would do like two a week I would do two long runs a week and then my short runs would be like 10 miles so like those would be short runs damn but yeah going into it I'm just like it's going to hurt it's going to suck it's going to be the worst pain you've ever that you've ever felt you just have to finish like I want to they don't they give you a belt buckle and so I was like I'm not leaving without that Bel yeah like I I don't even wear belts and so I just it was uh 20 mile Loops in the middle of the desert in Phoenix oh so you're seeing the same scenery too is that good or bad it was good for me I liked it so normally it's like washer style so you go forward then backwards then forward then backwards but it was just postco and so they didn't want people crossing pth that way and so they just did five flaps yeah five loops and so for me I like that because I'm like I know exactly by the second loop I have it memorized okay so I know exactly what to expect like okay there's a hill at the in around this curve like I can walk up that I can do this like I just

memorized it so but it was it was really neat because the first Loop was at Sunrise and the second Loop was like the heat of the day third Loop was like Sunset fourth Loop was middle of the night and then the fifth Loop was the sun coming up again oh my God so it was like it was a different Loop each time even though like it's the same path so it was really cool that's impressive dude it's really badass like I I I heard you did a big run but I didn't know it was like that and that was how long ago that was 21 okay October 21 okay yeah that's crazy when you're describing like what it was like it's almost it's so much like starting a big tattoo yeah yeah your first like back piece yeah going from just like baseball siiz tattoos to like a back

piece and you're just like oh my gosh I don't even know how to Teri getting one and drawing one too similar experiences it's not easier just to lay there that's you know as soon as that needle hits you and your ass clinches up or something you're like I have so much more to go yeah or starting a painting and feeling like it's horrible I mean it only thing I can think of like I obviously never ran more than a block but the idea of just knowing this is and I have to get through this like yeah you just have to be mentally tough like you've done it enough times to know you can get through it and it's just longer version which like sounds easier than things suck and you just have to push through like that's just how life is like one of one of our friends that ran the race with me was from there trained on that course like had her nutrition dialed in like oh I have to do this I have to do this I have to keep this pace I want to do this and blah blah blah and she was asking me and I was like I'm just going to run like I don't know like I grab some snacks I have a cooler and she was like laughing she was like what do you mean like what was your longest training run I was like 18 miles and she was like I did like 50 mil on this course like so that I would know everything and I was like I know up here I can finish like I'm now worried about not finishing I know I can do it because I've been through hard things and I know that on the other side I'll be happy yeah and so I can just

push through and then at like mile 55 she she dropped and she had like everything planned to the minute and like yeah and she just like was like crying like on the last Loop and she was like I just I'm in so much pain and I was like what you you signed up for 100 mile like there's going to be pain like you just have to like it's going to suck and then you have to push through and so it's it was one of those things where I was like I don't care how much pain I'm in on the other side of it I'm going to be happy and I know that's where my mind's going to be and I just have to do it and so yeah so I just like pushed through and finished and I love it and I did the whole thing dressed up like Luigi oh what yeah it was on Halloween weekend so that's awesome too you go into it like not taking it so serious and that maybe helps you get through things in life you know where I'm like I just you can't overthink This I Gotta I can't even act like I have anything to say that I'm like you I mean other than like running a business is exhausting and there's so many days where you come home and you may have feel like you held it together there but you're crying on the way home yeah you're devastated by everything going on and you're like thinking of every thing you can do to get out of it but you can't so yeah I guess I do have like you know like everything in my head when I start a project these days is like no it's it's like I'm not stopping until like I know I can do it like I'm I'm not

dumb I just know I have to work hard and through all the and even when you your pants yeah yeah I don't know why you told me one time you had to like run off into the bushes and poop oh dude that's a normal occurrence yeah yeah oh yeah your body is just like wants everything yeah it's like between M 7 and N just like I have to wrap like plan my route around a bathroom being between 7 and 9 like I just have to be able to get to a bathroom and sometimes you're out in the middle of the woods and you're like there's no bathroom but there's a bush over there and I'm just going to go over there and I'm going to finish this loop with no sock yeah oh damn yeah I just so those are yeah that's funny that's awesome dang so I don't know that's pretty impressive though and it's like that's one thing I've always like absolutely like loved about you is like your your self-discipline and like focus and getting that done is is always something you've been spectacular at it's really cool so thanks it's like really impressive not too many people can say that they've done that right how many people have really accomplished those 100 MERS not a lot so I read a statistic one time where it's like 1% of the population of the world will run a marathon okay SS right like maybe 1% of that percent will do 100 mile like it's such a niche small thing like it's not it's getting more popular now yeah I don't know like what the correlation between like suffering and putting herself through things that make

you suffer like being yeah but like but also like when things kind of suck like you want to be in charge of how much it sucks yeah and so I think that pushes people to do things like to the extreme a little bit more so it's like yeah things are kind of weird like you can't afford to buy a house right now gas is crazy expensive food is everything there Wars everywhere like everything's like stressful and everything sucks so I want to be in charge of what sucks and I'm going to run 100 miles then it'll suck for me but I'm doing it I'm in control of that I think that's like important for a lot of people certainly hell of a lot healthier than drinking smoking weed not smoking weed but smoking meth and trying to run a tattoo shop yeah and that's

I mean that just comes from like i' also I've never I've been straighted my whole life like I've never done any of that and that was from growing up with crazy chaos all over me too so I was was like well I've been through that so I can I can make it through this too yeah no yeah no I think that's wild yeah that kind of bring yeah I'm like still tripping I'm trying to imagine running off the side and uh taking a and then running another 75 miles yeah one thing too I've always like uh admired about you too is like you you are really good at a you're likable but you're good about jumping into whatever it is that you're doing and taking part in the communities that are a part of it you know so like with the dog culture you've you were always real good about being a part of like the Pug Rescue or the vegan culture you always had like built up a good community of people that practice the same kind of eating habits and as you and you guys all with and what comes with that is you're exposing yourself as a tattooer to all these different communities and you're able to build relationships and build clientele and always stay busy yeah which you know I think is really incredibly important like I don't I don't want to speak for you but I'm you know I'm I'm not like a world renowned tattoo or anything you know so I get out there and I talk to people and I meet them at the bar or I meet them at whatever like networks I was in car shows or you know just restaurants of like that I would go

to and I'm always willing to like just tell what I do for a living and say hi and talk about it and listen to them when they're giving me the whole long spiel and they're taking their shirt off in the middle of Target and show up their tits you know you're like what okay and just being like okay cool man here's my card come get me you know and not being that closed off like don't DM me ever you know kind of person and and which has kept you busy it's kept you successful yeah now you've been doing some real fun stuff with your social media which is a lot like newer free right like you really trying to dive in there like figure out that art form of like expressing yourself on social media I've always I've always loved just I mean comedy and just stuff like that and I've always just been too shy to like do it on social media and like at when Instagram started it was just pictures yeah you know we started we were early adopters and so there was like it was just okay well this is for tattoo pictures and that was all it was and I love that now what kind of branching out a little bit more where you can't express yourself and it doesn't you're not selling just your tattoos anymore you're selling yourself a little bit more and it's it's embarrassing and it's hard to reconcile that with being like a 40e old man and all of a sudden like okay well now I have these like and I still have like secondhand embarrassment of like looking at a phone and like talking about a thing yeah like it's

just it feels cringy it's funny cuz if I see other people do it I'm like oh that's really fun but when I go to do it I'm like but I I feel dumb doing it like even though I love watching it like so it's I'm really like struggling with that of like I still don't have hardly any videos where I talk to the camera it's just like captions that I point at yeah you know like I haven't got quite over the the like okay I'm going to speak to it now but like I'm I was almost there yeah you'll get there if you want to you know like it's there's also like ways to just express yourself through like you said the the nonverbal kind of video formats or whatever but yeah you've had some like success with some didn't you do some fun reels that like got some like real big yeah of I did uh like one where it was just like doing like a clear stencil like making a stencil on a bottle bag and like doing it for coverup so you can see exactly where it is oh yeah yeah and so I just posted that and I was just I was like oh this is a throwaway thing like in between posting tattoos and then it it was like three or four million views I was like what just happened why is that the one that took off but no one knows the how the Alor works yeah I don't know but and then I have kind of like delved into a little bit of like some educational ones and some funny ones and then some about my tattoos and I'm really trying to like hone tattoos that I want to do like communities that I want to speak to and that's what

I've really been trying to focus on like I love Disney stuff I love rock climbing I love you know doing running tattoos vegan tattoos like cartoons comic books stuff like that so I really and like I do a ton of Star Wars tattoos because that's like my favorite thing in the world yeah and so like I've been trying to make fun reels that involve those things that I like doing time to get some exposure yeah exactly Sher yeah that's dude you you got it it's fun it's it's fun and scary and like intimidating all at the same time like I used to love like skating when I was a kid and I loved editing skate videos yeah and I feel like the Instagram reels the editing is like similar enough fast moving yeah where just like okay like I kind of I like this idea so I'm like trying to like yeah take all of my interests and all of my education that I've learned over you know years and years of playing with stuff and like put it all together and yeah yeah that's fun was so what do you got for like other than your traveling I mean how do you feel about your tattooing and where you want to take it do you have any kind of you know what's your vision for like the next do you kind of keep your vision short to your Visions or yeah typically I I mean I just love I love tattooing people who share interest with me so I I I don't like doing huge tattoos so even like when I do a sleeve it's like you know a bunch of tattoos this size all over so like yeah I don't I don't really have ambition to like do

big stressful and like Palm size is like my limit dude I'm like my attention span is three to exactly that's really short so like a three hours is a lot you know to sit down and tattoo it is I don't know so and so yeah so I I like to do smallish tattoo um but yeah I just love doing stuff that I just love doing things that either I'm or the client is really passionate about yeah like I don't have to be super passionate about it but if you want to talk to me about it for two hours and teach me about it I'm I'm all I'm all about it totally yeah are you doing a lot of more pre-drawn stuff or no no most of it yeah most of it is like uh like I don't do a lot of like flash that I draw it's just they give me a description and I draw my version of it yeah as kind of kind of where is like my sweet spot where my clientele is where they're like here's my idea I know what you do do your version of it yeah and so that's that's kind of like where I just want to keep pushing that and I think when I'm traveling I'll probably push a little bit more of my art because people outside of Vegas don't know me yeah and so I think I'll probably do a lot of flash days for that yeah maybe yeah like any downtime you have in between just kind of hang out draw like anything and share and then I am doing this summer I'm doing the literary art convention and oh yeah tell me about that so that's in Chattanooga Tennessee and it's like the fourth year um they took a little time off of Co but it's all book

themed and like nerdy pop culture themed tattoo convention whoa and it's like a Comic-Con mashup yeah yeah exactly like tattooers show up in Cosplay and they have like a best decorated Booth contest and like it's creative and fun and I've been following it for a few years but it's they it's almost like invite only type thing so I was like never applied cuz I like I'm not cool like I'm not like a cool person what's the name of it again uh literary art literary art okay cool have to look that up yeah yeah okay and so like it's like I'm not I've never considered myself like a cool Tater you know like I'm just kind of like in My Own Zone like do my own thing and I do tattoos that I think are cool yeah but like I don't think I'm like popular like you know and so I just never applied cuz like I don't know like the people who go there are like the people who I think are cool yeah and so I'm like oh I don't want to like think I'm on their level or anything that's not true and so I just never applied and then this year I applied they AC me and so that's tight that's fun so we're road trip over there in the van and hopefully do some guas spots over there too or I think so yeah I think I'll probably do some like on the way and on the way back a little tour set up tour dates and stuff that's fun yeah that's R that's cool man yeah well so I don't know you have anything else you want to talk about or um I think that's it uh you're enjoying Tattooing in Vegas you're a hive tattoo yeah so

swarm built that out like me him and I built it out together like a few years back are you do you own it no just just help yet yeah exactly so everything's it's swarm shop and then I just like help run it I'm like manager yeah so cool that's awesome it's it's awesome honestly it's like the best case scenario for me like yeah I honestly I kept the same schedule that I had at st21 like I still come in the same days the same time but yeah it's I just ran a booth there and then it swarm me there's a guy Donnie uh young dude Chris who's like super talented young dude uh we have a dude named Cooper right now who's just gas spotting until he moves to Hawaii oh okay and he he he's awesome but he was working at downtown and Buddy runs a shop like real strict like you show up at this time you're here for these hours like you know like oh okay and he was just always late so he just called like buddy called St and he's like hey man I got this do you have a booth for like a month he's an awesome tattooer but he's just not here on time sw's like yeah man do whatever he wants and he's so he's super super nice and then we had this new dude Dan who does mostly like portrait stuff uh super nice dude and then we have a dude Alejandro on the other the other side of the shop okay so you Full House now so there's seven of us right now and then I'm teaching my son to tattoo okay yeah that's awesome how long how deep are you into that he's just about to start tattooing his friends dang so he's

he's just about there how are you going about that apprenticeship with like uh I did it pretty structured like I literally wrote out cuz I was I actually went to college to be a teacher and so I was like okay you know what I'm going to write out like a proper curriculum and like give it to him like here's the things you need to do to move to the next level and so we just kind of like worked our way through that and so he's uh and then he knows like what's expected of him you know like okay well I have to get this Benchmark before we can move to the next Benchmark so like he just has little check marks to go through and so he's been just like tattooing on fake skin and doing a bunch of line work he he's using coil machines right now I'm teaching him on coil just so he doesn't go to another shop and get made fun of basically that's like the main reason I'm like you can use whatever machine you want but you have to know how to use this yeah no no I think that's great and so he's already like taken it apart put it back together and uh Donnie only uses coil machines and he's really into machine building and and tuning and stuff and I was like okay well you can learn from him because I haven't touched one of those in a decade or so my arm hurts from the last time I used one yeah and so he's he's learning a bunch from Donnie about how to tune his machines and all of that stuff and um and then he's just about I told him his next Benchmark is like make a flash sheet of like just

little you know quarter siiz designs that he's excited to do yeah and then he's going to do a couple on his leg and then start invite some friends over dang yeah so so you got kind of like a couple years though to get them like tuned up before you take off for a while yeah yeah exactly your goal is to keep coming back right yeah yeah yeah sounds like it probably like quarterly or at least like kind of come back for sure and so yeah and I think I'm going to once he's tattooing like the last part of his apprenticeship like I'll sign them off and then I'm like okay well now you need to go work in a street shop for like a year and like just grind out as many tattoos as you can yeah meet all the weirdos yeah exactly like because the way Hive is run it's very Niche you know like everything's nerdy everything's like everybody who walks in the door is cool like they all want our tattoos and I'm like that's not what you're going to get you need to understand like that's not how tattooing is like we've put in 20 years into this industry you need to go like yeah go where it sucks for a little while and then you know when you build some clientele you can come back and have a booth but yeah that's fun yeah that's crazy I had to think about like teaching your kid how to tattoo it's wild yeah when he like reached out and said he wanted to learn I was like are you sure like it's it's cool but it's going to be it's gonna be hard you know like we have to put you through it a little bit yeah

yeah yeah it's fulfilling too it's really cool that's F I talked to clean Rock one not too long ago and he taught his son how a tattoo and his son was like slaying it dude I was like he's showing me tattoos I was like God damn bro that's really beautiful work yeah it's really cool yeah my dad and I learned how a tattoo at the same time so a whole different like Dynamic and I mean I was already kind of like into it before and then got into it like shortly after so it's so funny cuz everybody thinks it's always everybody's like oh it's so cool you grew up it's your dad is a tattoo no he's actually construction he was in construction yeah exactly you're like no we we came together yeah yeah that's fun that's crazy stories but well I don't know

man I really appreciate you taking the time to do this and it's like it's super fun we know each other want some traveling and have some more stories a th% and I got some other ideas for you too cool I love you bud and thanks so much for coming down dude I appreciate it thank you check up on Nick bones what's your website you uh nickon tattoos.com okay cool is that the best place I mean I always push people to yeah I mean Instagram Instagram's the easiest Buton tones tattoos work also R yeah get out there check out his work catch up on his uh latest running Adventures yeah and everything else so all right guys thank you so much have a good one thanks bye

Usually people appreciate the truth so feel comfortable doing what you're doing and just tell the truth cuz if anything it's just going to be like oh yeah you're right I don't want to get tattooed or like I don't want to get thatto honesty just be honest drawing is like breathing yeah it should be so effortless like we don't even think about it we just breathe that really stuck to me let them tell you what they want based off of what you love to do is more important than if you're feeling like that urgency that you know you got to book stuff you got to you know make money you got to pay bills and stuff then how can you make it work to your advantage in that way what's happening this is Austin Spencer from Maverick Supply Co here today with support your local tattooer and I'm super excited about hanging today with Anthony Elliott the second the second which is an important part about your story which I think is kind of fun yeah yeah I'm named after my father Yes but there's some more fun things to come with that yeah uh and then learn to find out that uh somewhere in the Scottish Scottish lineage that is me is apparently OT Elliot is royalty somewhere I think it's Scotland so it's just a like a a fun thing that like the great grandparents tell you yeah yeah I don't I wonder if mine cuz mine uh Princess D has some or Spencer is some my last name Spencer and has something to do with I don't know some connection there but anyway it's a fun little yeah so your royalty your tattoo

royalty yeah you no no but uh just a guy that um puts his pants on every day like everyone else exactly so like I basically what we like to do is kind of just get down to I I like like I I always say this but I I love learning about people's history and tattooing and how they got into it okay I don't know I just think be fun to get a little feedback from you and how you got into this wacky industry your story is pretty rad and uh I don't know yeah it's uh it's always interesting to be the Observer of people who think it's rad yeah and then it turns out you just live it yeah which just feels normal yeah we have kind of similar stories we both uh tattoo and our father's tattoo I got into tattooing like slightly before my dad actually which is

kind of interesting okay yeah but yours you were raised you said you started getting into this at super early age right well is is 15 and um 32 yeah so that's 17 years of actually making marks like it didn't stop from 15 but um you did your first tattoo at 15 yes okay it was on my father oh was like I think the beginning he like downplayed it he like ah this isn't um this isn't that great it's not that fun you know like yeah and it was like taking every ounce of me and go Dad I don't care teach me and he's like well start showing up and then on the weekends instead of biking with my friends I would uh yeah I would go hang out before you know what I would take the national flash flip it over and then line draw the back so he had the front and back so he could just flip it quick ah this before iPads yeah so I was like going through and line drawing with a Micron marker every single piece of Flash oh okay and then one day my dad's just like you're going to tattoo me I'm like go what and he's like yeah set it up and I'm like how how do I set you haven't even got that far you you like wolves on you could just do it just like we're just like shaded in something but like you know and you're learning that the needle bar faces up and all that stuff is like that was foreign like that wasn't even like oh you're supposed to do that and being overwhelmed by trying to even remember that yeah yeah now it's nothing now you're thinking about what's for dinner tonight yeah you you it's so

second nature that you don't you don't think twice about it so how so you didn't it wasn't necessarily like a u kind of what we think of as a traditional apprenticeship kind of type thing with your dad you guys were l literally like you were just he was doing it and you were around you You' been tattooing since you were real young though right yeah yeah yeah yep uh so my mom would be waitressing okay he'd be tattooing a friend in the kitchen rocking me with one foot and then him on the tattoo the pedal tattooing his just trying to keep both occupied right so I guess that's that's how I was raised in it so it's like yeah knowing and understanding the fundamentals of tattooing and then just falling into it it just didn't didn't stop I mean they weren't the best tattoos but yeah that's what you were starting you start you know and it was like one of those things where it was like uh my dad did single needles and it was like three tights so like that's how what I learned off of was like three tights so like little tiny lines some of the hardest stuff was like go yeah you know social media started happening all this stuff and then you're like oh there's thicker needles there's why why and then oh you need different coil machines at that point to drive them and it was like learning that so he was kind of tight lipped about it almost or like no he wasn't tight Li he's like here's the fundamentals okay and then I was like I want more yeah yeah and it wasn't like he didn't want more

it was just like you young 15 16 17 and it's just like I need more information yeah um I want to know everything because the only thing I could ever think about is I want to be the best yeah and I want to know all of it that's fun so so you have some pretty early on memories of like watching him tattoo people yeah um I would even like um cuz he had a shop in the house and I guess maybe why I do skeleton keys and like key holes is I remember trying to like look in the keyhole and you could just see my dad tattooing CU he would lock it you couldn't go in but I wanted to go in yeah but I wasn't yeah so like that's that's like a memory of it was even more still the house I still live in yeah you were telling me yeah duplex so I live upstairs yeah live separate from them but yeah but yeah that's the tattoo shop is was the house and then you guys never and then so did he he never I couldn't remember you we were talking about earlier but he never went off and actually opened his own shop he just kind of was had to oh he did oh okay yeah yeah he did he did roughly in the 90s on and off uh doing a full-time job and just kind of doing National flash yeah line around the corner they'd know he'd open up and he would do that till midnight no is a side hustle yeah um that's crazy yeah so can you please turn off that alarm there's an alarm going off in the back sorry no perfect as it should be we're operating out of the warehouse so yes you know we got all F all sorts of fun things

happening but uh yeah so back to that like I I I I think that's super fun I can't imagine like I don't know it's just be being that much more excited about it tattooing is this like secret that was going on in the back room sounds fun yeah yeah it's uh it's interesting it's uh interesting to watch it for now or like from now even then or even just like how how you think about it or I guess just how it evolves yes so you did say he ended up opening up his own shop and then yeah yeah and it would be like on and off how old were you then well I that that kind of stuff that's when I started well it was like early 90s he had one and then he moved into uh a different location and when I was around 15 that's when I started showing up so there there was shops previous to like it was a at that time it was more like there wasn't in our State there wasn't licensing yeah um and what what would come from that is like you know you just called the police station like hey I'm opening up like you know is there any regulations hey call called the sheriff's you was like hey this is whatever and then we had a Department of Health in Minnesota but it wasn't really regulated tattoo is like hey like this is this is what it is they're like you can't do that he's like well I'm going to I'm going to open up at this date this time blah blah blah blah blah like you can come look at get everything I have it already never showed up and he just he just do it on and off and it was very very feel like

part-time because it it wasn't like always every week you know like not every week every day he just kind of always had a place like a little art place that let's get it out own thing okay so you yeah and this is in Little Falls yep Little Falls Minnesota yeah in Minnesota and you see it's real small roughly 8,000 8,000 to 9,000 I think I I think was he the only one Tattooing in the town back then yes oh okay cool so he was like so it's like Elliot's first and finest yeah that that was always the the the thing that he always wanted to say but really it never did but it more of just a joke yeah yeah that's um no it's it's kind of cool too and he has like his old business card and it's the historical society and stuff so it's it's documented and stuff oh that's cool so at least then it's like yeah yeah that's legit um yeah so that's red and then you kind of started cruising around in like 15 you said you started he T you tattooed him yep tattooed him and then you know some buddies that that would get tattooed by my dad you'd be like hey do you my son tattoo like yeah I was like you just do them obviously for free they like they were psyched to just get a tattoo yeah but I think they were psych too that like my dad's such a cur uh charismatic charismatic yeah yeah and it's fun to talk to that you know I think people really gravitate towards his personality to the point where I think they just thought it was rad that they have one from him and now they're getting one from me yeah

okay so you're seeing that happen so that that was hyped they like they'll be like I got to collect one from all the The Elliots cuz my sister also I know about tattoos they're like some people are just like want all tattoos from three of us I don't know that's a thing that's super cool yeah you just dropped that on me this morning I didn't even didn't even know your sister tattooed too yeah she goes by yoke yoke okay yeah like egg Yol oh okay what kind of stuff does she do she likes really trdy but it's very psychedelic oh okay that's very um mushrooms and um weird drippy and it's it sometimes none of it makes sense they're like weird colorful demons things that are like she has like a particular taste and you notice that people gravitate towards different sheeps and looks yeah you can just see that that's in our work like people understand that yeah so which is super important because you have like a really unique style of illustration that I think is which is interesting that we all kind uh my father would always use the national lime green and the magenta right okay and like the bangal tiger orange or the that golden yellow and it's like those colors growing up were just around and I think they ended up in my sister and I's stuff yeah okay it's like I still gravitate towards that golden yellow ochre and that magenta or that lime green it like kind of stuck around and that's as of late kind of seeing that things as a whole is like I think it just it kind of we adapted yeah

so I think there's things that my you know father did and then we kind of picked up or my sister picked up stuff from me I picked stuff for her and it just kind of so you guys were all kind of tattooing together or whatever like how long did that ever so again my my dad has a full-time job welding so he's just like like the hockey dad of tattooing okay I think that he was always he's always been around he's either always helping changing the from changing the trash help cleaning the tubes cuz we use we use metal tubes especially for lining yeah so he's just always around even if he wasn't tattooing cuz there's a lot I think a lot of times where he was not tattoing okay um whether that's burnout or just you know feeling like um I feel I feel

like some of those guys feel like that the things got ahead of them yeah it's like I think it's uh we all compare ourselves sometimes and we get caught up doing that and I think that's what it is but well you had a hard ass job too you know he's already working all day got it's like he's he's already doing a lot so we we appreciate him for that you know being solid and sticking it through and even if maybe I was a you know where kids are younger and not understanding that the older you get the more you understand like there's a there's a lot there that that especially even if you have kids which I don't but it's like living through all my friends who have kids like yeah yeah you're like that's some that's that that takes a lot just that yeah doubt and the full time and labor and all stuff yeah yeah you just learn to appreciate the humans for your parents are human they they they are you just you got talk about that a lot yeah it's just especially after becoming a parent but I just realize like they're they're just people that are just trying to work with whatever was right within their reach and how they can make it work and no you know we think at first that our parents are geniuses and they've got it all figured out and then you slowly realize that they don't and then you kind of have that weird resentment for a second then you just grow up a little more and then you're like oh never mind right I'm a flop too at times or whatever not a flop but well no you you yeah you

realize your own flaws yeah cuz we all have you're human yes it's the same thing with tattooing is the illusion of perfection right it's not perfect no well never be it shouldn't be yeah it should be fun you know embracing all the little flawes beautiful what so you you were so you started tattooing a little bit and now now were you just kind of going down to his like private spot and starting to tattoo his friends and tattoo your your your friends too or so I'd been doing it through high school and then a lot of my friends at that time were starting to turn 18 so then it was like okay then you you I think that was one of those things where my dad's like you just have to wait till they're 18 cuz like I that yeah hung around with a lot of adults like it wasn't like you know tattooing isn't really like a little kid environment I mean no you know even like 15 16 you mean like 15 to 18 even is just like you're still still a kid even at 18 you're still very much I didn't even think about that too yeah so like I'm tattooing adults yeah not nothing like super weird would you know like it wasn't a shop like that I feel like the area that we're at you know it's pretty conservative area and you know people are just getting like arms and legs tattooed yeah it's very that's what it is and lots of crosses cuz there a lot of Catholic people around you know stuff like that so it's just like which is a challenging tattoo right and then and then it's just one of those things where you're

like you're you're tattooing anything and everything and there there was a point like the especially like the early 2000s you would take anything that would come your way yeah that's how we were trained yeah and it was like you don't say no yeah you say no to nothing um I think the only thing would be like uh just don't do anything you're not comfortable with you know so you're not doing bad you know like wreck people because you're changing people's lives yeah you know even if it doesn't seem like it like they make that Mark and then they're doing this with their shirt you know you you've psychology psychologically changed them to a point where they don't even think about it and they're they're and it's like he just didn't want to be that yeah that guy but like that was something your dad instilled in you or you just kind of yeah yeah he was he's very like the the old school like he really liked the nice Capp stuff and yeah you I lik that that look there's a responsibility to tattooing he wanted you to respect it and understand like the power of it right and that's the same thing we've even kind of taught my sister Adam and Noah I'm done yeah teach you teach you for a lot long time more than I thought I was ever going to do but um they were all instilled like if you're not comfortable don't do it it's not worth it yeah yeah yeah your rep your reputation it's easy to get a reputation once you lose it it's hard to gain it back yeah so it's better just to say no me worst case

scenario they're mad at you and like that's even better because now they're not mad at you for doing a bad tattoo yeah yeah yeah mad at for helping make a better decision usually people appreciate the truth so it's feel comfortable doing what you're doing and just tell the truth yeah cuz if anything it's just going to be like oh yeah you're right I don't want to get tattooed by you now or like I don't want to get that tattoo by you so you honesty just be honest like I don't feel good I'm sick I shouldn't be tattooing you yeah yeah yeah like just be honest it's like you're not lying yeah like I I wouldn't want somebody to do something on their sick you don't want your dentist to be sick and working on your teeth yeah yeah not at all no no so

so you learned you it sounded like you learned some good U like you were set out on the on the right foot like yeah dad put some instilled some good in you as far as tattooing goes and yeah you seem like a damn nice man anyway thanks appreciate it apprciate learn to take the compliments yeah that's something I was definitely not good at that basically my whole entire adult life yep I don't know why I don't know why that happens but so like when did you kind of like start getting when you said you taught your sister too yeah oh okay you said she got into it later on it was before Adam bleer so I taught my sister Jessica Elliot Adam bleer and now Noah Jarvis and and Adam and Noah are still with you right y they're still with me bleer we just call him bleer yeah or I do or Bleak it's like seven years for him so I think my sister's like eight or nine years okay it was it was weird how it happened I was like sister happened and then the these are all local people in the area so it was like I didn't even realize that I was like teaching local people in the area to like you know they have their families there they want to be there they gravitate towards their so there like there's these people that want to just be with tattooing and enjoy it like we enjoy it and just kind of seeing that they wanted it with or without me do you want it with or without me that's going to be the first step to knowing like how bad you want this and it just kind of was cool that it just worked out to be

like local people yeah yeah and now it's like local people are tattoing local people because um we can get caught up in social media and internet and realize it starts where you started where you're watering and Watering your grass it's like yeah people strive to go like somewhere where somebody already watered the grass you just want to like get there to get what they've built to like get you ahead it's like just kind of seeing there's different ways to go about it I think they're all going to be hard but the degrees in which you have to push and push things is I think going to be different yeah that that makesense and you I mean sounds like you guys obviously built up some good relationships you guys are still working together after all those years yeah lucky enough to have the four of us uh you know even if my father isn't isn't there that much um which is fine he do whatever do whatever he wants say it all the time do whatever you want like you you don't have to tattoo but it's really cool that somehow we all got along and you know it's even cool to see that like no one ad of they get along it's just like that's a big deal you know it's just a bunch of nerds that like to do art you know that they like their magic we like video games you know just yeah it works we like tattoos so it's like somehow it worked out yeah and that doesn't always work out that way how's the evolution of their art come along like are do you are you seeing like influences I would imagine your

illustration style influenc slightly here so I think the the core of it is is everything is fundamental in lines yeah it's somebody comes in they'll be like hey do you do do portraits for example we don't do portraits everything is in lines yeah so I think that's where we all agree I like that and then all the the shapes are all different we like Noah likes that classic traditional look uh bleer is very much video games and Anime and you know that kind of sector in lines right and then I don't sometimes I I would say neotraditional for me uh sometimes I just say illustrative but it's just like uh holding to the fundamental rules of tattooing that the tattoo will fall apart yeah it's designing it to age gracefully is the the equation because

you can't avoid that so now now we're kind of in a realm of like what does that look like so it's like thin lines are gray thick lines are black you know is yeah what does this particular tent to need like you know does it need a an 11 straight or a nine straight or a seven straight so that it ages at a being a fortune teller okay what this going to look like at a particular time you know sometimes designing like is very inspired by Emanual he does like all the little steps on those mushroom Huts yeah and I really like that and I do them thicker and sporadic you know try to just try not to think about it too much just let it become its own thing yeah you I was like oh that's cool but like let's see what you can do and sometimes I'll let it let the thick lines touch and I know later that they'll touch but it'll just look like a shadow from the steps yeah it's like it doesn't matter yeah it's just like letting it bleed together sometimes is all right to you brought up a manual uh Rodriguez correct is it is it I think it's Mendoza I could be botching or uh the sacred Crow oh okay okay yeah yeah yeah yeah I know people know that one I think I think some people for some reason it's easier to remember the Instagram handles I don't know yeah well dude it's all we kind of know these days we know we quickly know like I can look at your stuff stuff which I am extremely in love with like I'm a nerd about illustration and I love seeing someone's stuff that I can know for a fact that's

yours you know and you've developed that your own really unique touch and I'm a huge fan of drawing skulls so uh I I was instantly drawn you used a lot of skulls and like you I don't know is there any other artists like out there that just pop off your head oh yeah you gotta you got give that you got to give the shout out to Rob good kind yes Dusty Neil yeah um Manuel does have a an influence um you know when you're like you know them all it'll pop in your head later on um because there there's so many people you know that the little curl on the jaw bone that's that's nothing new and there's a lot of people that have kind of cultivated these little things or you know Emanuel he likes to longate that that piece of the nose or you know it's kind of cool to see Dusty Neil like he he used to like really focus on a particular thing and then just went I do everything yeah so that that's cool to see so that his skulls inspired me but like the he's just he's a tattoo we're all tattooers and yeah it's easy to get caught up and go like I need it to be a certain way and you realize that you know you can do all sorts of things but yeah if I think of it any other pop good he's in Chicago right good yeah and dust NE I forgot where he's from but he's one of my first like early Instagram days I remember being like oh like this Indiana Fort Wayne Indiana okay I feel like he's not in my algorithm lately I don't see yeah you just got to go in there like all of his stuff a few things pop right

back up I need to do that yeah and then start looking at the story and it'll it'll populate forward yeah that's and I really like just seeing what he does like with just even like again he's just designing it to work as a tattoo yeah it's like the fundamentals of tattooing and I've been seeing like other podcasts on that stuff where tattooers are talking about that it's like you learn how to tattoo and then you implement a style but at the end of the day it's like you know you're just tattooing you're enjoying the process of making a tattoo yeah that's all that ever mattered CU if you're just like waiting for a Finish Line then you're just like hustling through the fun part yeah and then like what's the point is that you're just like always

it it almost becomes meaningless if you're just trying to get to the end result yeah and then you never have fun with it and then it doesn't reflect through anything that you touch because every Tattoo You Touch Is a good supposed to be a good tattoo yeah I like the idea you're I'm always I I like the idea you're talking about just like designing it for longevity which I feel like gets lost when you're a younger tattoer or hasn't has been kind of ignored lately it seems like but everything's for the Graham type but yeah it's it's it's for the grham or yeah I think people are thinking about other taters let's just even just strip the internet away it's like why you doing it at least me I could be wrong there there there could be a whole bunch of other things but like why are you doing it if you were doing it for the sake of longevity that you're going to last longer cuz at the end of the day it's all temporary anyway yeah the the the people unfortunately pass away with the tattoo you put long hours on them but it's like what like hope that everyone gets to live a long healthy life and you want that tattoo to last all the way to that point yeah you're making a mark that's going to last all the way to that point is the goal and that's I think the the fun part of it that's the part of the craft it's like if you want to be an artist go paint go paint like and then don't think about ttoo yeah in some aspects you know yeah when I dude when I stare at your tattoos I'm like these

These are definitely built to last like you you approach it in this very simple clean traditional approach but with your illustrative style like I don't know that's how I feel like I tried to constantly tried to be able be doing that in later in my career in the beginning I feel like I up a lot was like trying too many styles in one especially new tatour maybe don't realize is that you got to try everything yeah so you are going to do those things and worst case inario you can either go over top the thing like there's tattoos out there that there's some of my first if they ever came in and they wanted me to do it I'd do for free yeah yeah just like let's let's just like you you trusted me let me let me give it a second coat I I know now I know better you know it's uh I'm never going to avoid anything you know I I marked you up I I guess I just try to have like a good mindset about like I was trying really hard and I was trying to put my all into it and you know it's a practice like Doctor's practice Yeah so it's like I just I just hope people would be like you know at least even see this and hear this is like just come back hang out like we'll figure it out like it's it's perfectly fine it's like that's the disclaimer of like like we're experimenting in a way we're discovering what works and what doesn't work and hopefully you had the right guidance to at least get there a little bit faster but not everyone got that luxury yeah you know it's like I try to and it's even like

the people that I taught I learned a little bit more and I got better at teaching and teaching and then before you know and I feel like Noah got the best part of all of it well I'm like ironing out my sister then Adam and and they're just apologizing to them like hey I know I do things differently now I'm I'm willing to admit that like there's a better way to teach this uh you just got your own unique version of teaching you're training for parenting right now that's what all y so it's uh that's funny yeah it's just kind of just ironing it out like we we're all doing it I Scotty monster oh forgot Scotty monster is an influence yeah um fantastic know shout out to him for saying um I remembered him saying he probably wouldn't even remember it

we're at a convention it's uh and I'm probably going to botch what you said but along the lines of just putting your putting your heart into it trying trying hard to just do your best so far yeah is being a good tattooer that's beautiful yeah so like that that's the most important thing if you're doing that and you can approach it with honesty and help those people don't forget about the people that help you build it so like you got to cover it up you got to rework it do it it's that's a part of the journey the Journey of like you know if you need to feel like you need to cover Your Tracks not cover your track I don't know a better better term for that lack of a better term yeah yeah and then uh just do do something about it just don't be that guy that avoids that stuff because you're not you're doing your you're doing them them a disservice and you're doing yourself a disservice yeah cuz you're a tattooer you're part of the culture like kind of have to share that how long do you think um I mean I know I feel like you have like I said again a very very distinctive style right now like how long do you think it took you to kind of like really start to find your groove and feel that you I I just hear younger tattooers say all the time well I don't have a style and I don't have this and like I feel like it took me like 10 years or more to even I'm not the only one I think that says this is I wish I would have just done more focusing on learning how to tattoo than what style it

should be yeah I feel like the the internet bred that whereas like if the internet didn't exist you just wanted to be a tattooer and I think that's why I always come down to just these simplest things of like just focus on the process just do some flash yeah like just tattoo some cool flash cuz then at least you have this blueprint to follow along and then just do that stuff over and over again and it's like get as many as you can I just I even remember how many free tattoos I did yeah on my friends just let let's just get cooking that's just I don't want to stop yeah I wish I would have done that because I I got caught up in the it needs to be a particular style oh and then you like limiting yourself almost to an extent like you you're uh putting yourself in a position where you're thinking these thoughts that other people have either implemented in you or you start making stuff up based off of what you see yeah and that holds you back from just creating cuz the whole point was is that little kid that's not thinking about anything just making I just remember sitting in my room as a little kid drawing I don't I wasn't thinking about time wasn't thinking about adult issues responsibilities I was just making I didn't care what it was as far as like I just would Trace Pokemon yeah you know like I I loved doing that and I wasn't like oh I shouldn't be doing that because I didn't nobody else does that because I'm stealing oh my gosh you know like you start to like get in your own

way yeah and I think that's some of the things that kind of opened up the idea of like I think some of the things I do are just natural to just just do it it's fun uh like right now I'm really into plants so I just draw plant matter yeah yeah and and all of a sudden like I'm like you know I like skulls all of a sudden I'm draw an ivy around it and then I might not do that tomorrow yeah and that's okay yeah you're pulling influences from all over you and these beautiful things that you're passionate about I noticed and I noticed that with other people so like Adam's a good example of like that dude like lives breathes uh Tattooing in video games yeah tattoos goes home plays a video game okay you can see influences in like when when he's playing video games I mean I I even do it too when something comes out I'm I'm All About like fantasy and unicorns and dragons and all that stuff and it's like I gravitate towards that stuff yeah um and then I I'll like I'll buy the video game art books those are great Inspirations cuz they'll the they'll give you weapons and and like like different clothing and armor every element of the environment in the game and you liked it and then now you're starting to try to implement that in a a tattoo design structure that maybe fits yeah for the here where so a lot of times you'll see when I draw things I'm like drawing things specific to a body part or the roundness of like ear or the back of the cap like blow it up and fit it on the cap so

it's like trying to find these it's not not necessarily about the style exactly it's about everything that I love designing it for something that I also love which is tattooing yeah is like trying to Let's simplify it let's not complicate this because ultimately it's just creating yeah but I'm a tattooer so I create for tattooing where did uh like some of your you have you have like some signature kind of key elements in your work like the I mean the skulls are obviously some of my favorites but I love the rabbits and the ghosts like where did kind of the ghost thing come from uh the ghost the I'm the ghost guy did not I did not plan on being the ghost guy I kind of want to get a ghost no and and I I'm I'm I'm down like um it's funny how that Happ I'm grateful to be put in a position where I get to do something that's just like you know everyone's like oh the infinity sign you know it's like if there was a line around the corner I'd do every single one until I drop I do I don't care but like I can replace with the ghost yeah and now I get to just like do ghosts and then you get so proficient that they become easy why would I make it difficult on myself to say oh I need to be doing something else yeah I just know how to drape a sheet yeah it looks great that's all it is do I turn it this way this way do I twist it and then you just well you'll have like these very obvious uh broke these shapes that have bins them inside the sheet and it looks looks flows so tight uh do you

have ever heard of Kim Jong G recently passed away unfortunately but the the dude drawing is like breathing yeah it should be so effortless like we we don't even think about it we just breathe and he he said that and that that really uh stuck to me and then Tim beeden yeah okay I asked him on his live feed I was like other than drawing all the time what else could you say about that he's like intention and then Kim Jong g g said understanding so how this mic uh screws in where does It screw in oh here it's a long piece of metal oh what's under there then you start to kind of get this mental image of this piece that you can see or at least that's how my brain works if I can see something yeah eventually I can like take it apart and put it back together in my head as long as I have the understanding of how all the pieces connect and then from there you can make it up and then once you understand it then you can manipulate it is kind of what can J G set as well and you just kind of find like oh that's all it is I I understand a plate a spoon um a toilet you know it's like things that we use every day a car and then now you can you realize that you can draw more than you think you could draw you're just trying to draw all these other things so maybe sometimes that's why like like I drew a like a weird little creature in a claw tub yeah it's cuz I have a claw tub yeah yeah there's no other reason then it's just went around and but what was your question exactly I kind of uh uh

oh I think we were just talking about The Inspirations of like specifically like the ghosts like where like where did those kind of come from became the ghost like a musician says I didn't anticipate that song I just made it yeah took 10 minutes just doled one and it was the hit song you know you hear that all the time that's how I feel the ghosts are yeah I just drew it because it was close to Halloween somebody got it all of a sudden people started asking about it and then I was like oh I should probably just draw more of these because my mindset was uh you can't say no so just draw a whole bunch and then tattoo a whole bunch and just say yes all the time what's kind of a fun thing too is like how many different cool ways can I draw a ghost or you know a drap sheet and you what was fun about it what was fun about it is like people would approach me with an idea like hey can you uh have one like with a bowl of Cheerios okay like what okay okay I'm not going to say no like so it's like holding a bowl and then it's just like little simple little dots and circles like floating out of it now it's not Cheerios but it's like tattooed symbol of Cheerios I like your little stick um like kind of skeleton like solid black line work hands coming out of yeah so then that it it became the hands that you only see to hear yeah and then I was like it's kind of getting bored yeah just getting bored like what what could we what could we do to make it fun for me yeah you know but people

aren't going to hate it if I'm changing it up a little bit it just kind of adds to that hey these are one-offs and I only tattoo versions of them once right so this so we're just trying to like how many more elements can I put in this to kind of interchange and and you start to think about it in that way to the point where uh can't can't talk about it too much but I'm working with um uh tattoo space oh cool and we're working on something that has to do with ghosts yeah then the rabbits too you got the rabbits the the rabbits are anywhere from like my dad used to do magic all the time oh really you know it's just very showmans Shippy things I think that just kind of comes with time so just remember kind of growing up and always enjoying that

and where we live it's just riddled with rabbits and you would just see them sunbathing in the backyard like sprawled out like like they're like pets yeah yeah yeah yeah I just liked that that's fun there there was no other reason the little Goblin creature kind of dude what is he's I don't know what that terrifying Australian kids movie is Baba duke or something if you ever never heard of that one oh I the Goblins I like their little fantasy I like I like uh if I'm GNA uh let's say I'm playing a video game and you have an option I'm probably going to either pick a goblin or a wizard okay yeah your Wizard's rip I just I like I that's what I like so I do more of what I like I don't yeah I I'm really just trying to just not care so much about

uh what it is because I just notice the more I just make the more uh I generate the people who like it and turns out that we all kind of like the same things yeah I start to notice that these commonalities with people who come get those elaborate pieces is like you like the same music or we're into to the same video games it's like we have something in common yeah and as long as I'm being myself and true to just the things I like good to go just people just show up authenticy and then you start then you start making friends yeah you know people want to talk about what you're creating yeah which is fun yeah so yeah some of them are just like I like I like fantasy lore so it's just like I always did but I wasn't always doing it and I was like

what's stopping you from doing that just make that stuff Grime too grimy probably influence like I see sometimes you know yeah I think all of us that have ever or grew up where we were at it's hard to say that you haven't been influenced by him at some point in time too yeah Grime Tim the round eyes like that you throw in all your characters it's like this stiff hard shape in the middle of this flowy fun yeah the shapes and patterns it really just kind of comes down because then it's not about realism and it's never been about realism I don't want to I don't want anything to be realistic um it's just that I know shapes exist and the more I open up the shape on the body the easier it is to see yeah so if I can open up the shapes or create shapes that just look like particular things then I've done my job to longevity of tattooing CU that's that's ultimately the point so yeah I well I love the Simplicity of colors too like you said you have like the the green and the pink I don't know I keep seeing that wizard in my head or something I think I saw really but just everything about me is like AR like wants to fight and change it but it looks so good and Simple and Clean you know and the fact that you'll just throw these big blocks of color in over and yeah and I think that's the fun for me is uh and especially for people that are like still trying to figure it out there's nothing worse than trying to like get a a large area solid in one color and that's so satisfying to me yeah

I and that's why I do it yeah it's just it's satisfying it just tickles that part of my brain where I'm like look what I did and if anybody knows we'll appreciate that for that but then it's also it's bold and readable so it's like it it appeases both sides cuz then it's like that how comic books are they're structured in lines yeah and then they just use a like they'll use like so I'll use black whip shading and then put that color over there and it's done I've I've deliberately showed you what that symbol is with one particular color but then that kind of really comes down to like traditional tattooing they were limited in colors I don't have to be limited in colors but it's fun to try to create patterns with colors yeah and again that's more of just I'm always about patterns and shapes I think that's what threw me off too in the very beginning of like um of my career all of the sudden like the the pigment companies like everything just came out in these big ass sets and you felt like you had to use it all and then you were just muddy and up you look back at it later on you're like man I wish I picked three colors and that was it and worked with those for the whole beginning of my career yeah and then you I think that kind of comes back to like how do you figure out the thing you use all the colors yeah I put too much black in something I didn't put enough black in something you and you go to the next no I'm going to do this the next time I'm do this next time and I I think

it's just like doing all the things all the time and just getting to these like Pinnacles of like realization that you can only get through doing and experiencing y that you're just going to be like like that like why didn't I I see that before I think that's a lot those discoveries are just like pushing you know and unfortunately sometimes pushing till it hurts you know mentally or emotionally uh you know it's affecting me because I'm just pushing so hard and want it so bad that it it it's mentally affecting me and unfortunately sometimes that pain comes with these realizations of like dude you pushed yourself way too hard yeah like it's just art like just just make you're making for you you're not making for anyone else and just let go just let it all go cuz like you know when you live in a small town and you know there's only a select number of friends and you know you you hang out with your family or your girlfriend and that's you have your small circle there's only so much time in the day that it just makes sense just to do it the way you want to do it yeah and then you know ultimately you're doing it so that you can tattoo people not tattoo tattooers I mean you end up tattooing tattooers yeah I do that all the time and that's it's awesome there's an awesome freedom to that and usually everyone's pretty cool with it but it's not what you did it for you're doing it for the the non- Tater that's true that just loves tattoos and you start realizing that's so much more

simple that that's who you're really selling to yeah and I I guess it's just G getting to a point where I try to simplify everything I think we can over complicate things yeah and I think a lot of new tattooers or even people are still working I'm still working on it I'm still I'm going to change things and you know what I'm going to unapologetically change things good because I don't care yeah like you know I'll think of it we struggle with it but then at the end of the day it's like it doesn't matter I I I think you know living where I do it's you don't see a lot of people you're not not being influenced by anybody other than like what you see on the internet and even then it doesn't matter because everyone's going to go home to their their kids their wife their family whatever and they're going to do their thing but like we we should all just like approach it with you know truth and honesty and just trying your best because of I like the simplifying part of it too yeah and then again it's just my whole career I've been know like I was kind of like known for these bright color combinations and everything and everything I want to do now I just want to try to pick my three needle groupings and a black and I just want to like just do black work and almost like refigure out how to just make that look good yeah no that and I think it comes back around we we try things but it's all kind of reshaping itself it's now it's I think a lot of tattooers are starting to realize

certain things about tattoos yeah and now it's kind of coming back around to the things that worked and then elaborating on those and sometimes flash tattoos work yeah not working yourself to death so you can enjoy your time with your family because you're a tattooer and it it doesn't diminish you as an artist or a tattoo you know artist because it's like I want a style and I wantan to it sounds like you just want to be known or you want your place in the industry then it starts to kind of become more about like that's true do I want to be famous no I I don't want to I want to put into tattooing I want to give back by doing my best and putting something forward but sometimes like doing on walk-in Saturday you know structure walk-in Saturday

and I'm going to do anything anything that I'm capable of doing that's great I think it's super healthy uh for you you know tell yeah tell us a little bit more about that we talked about that I really like your you kind of compartmentalize your days and as far as yeah so I think realistically for the most part I end up doing a lot of the manager stuff for the the shop like my dad um he's a part of it and and I take care of most everything he just he's the the knower he knows everything right and he's you know helping my mom with health issues and all that stuff he has a place and a responsibility and we honor him for that but I deal with a lot of the brunt stuff so Sunday Mondays days off yeah um great days off uh I've always enjoyed those days off and you know cuz Monday you I go grocery shopping you run anang out with retired people and there calm and gentle and it's a good time cuz uh a little Falls is kind of uh either where you're going to raise your kids or where you're going to retire okay that's a good prominent amount like a lot of the industry is like nursing or nursing assistants and that's a lot of people we cater to because we tattoo a lot of women okay more women are getting tattooed than men in our town that's for sure Sunday Monday day off Tuesday is is manag your day um and that could even mean consults ordering uh I really just want to make sure that the the guys in my shop are taken care of they're giving money to the shop yeah they deserves particular

things to make sure that it's worth it to be there I want to give them a space that I would want to work in yeah so that and that's what they they need deserve and they though they most definitely deserve and they show it through working hard and doing the job that they intended tattoo yeah and then uh Wednesday Thursday Friday is appointments only so it's usually like full day half days um and I just kind of structure that it's just so easy to be like H full day half day it's this much and then it's an hourly rate so if it takes four hours we're just going to charge for the four hours yeah but I might schedule you for the full day and then if a walk-in walks through and and I have time and I'm feeling up to it and I you know sometimes if you're not eating throughout the day we we can falter on that then I should probably go eat I probably shouldn't be tattooing so I just did a tattoo and I think if you um charge the right amount then it would have been like you did a whole bunch of small tattoos so so we try to keep it within that window and then walk in Saturday you just kind of open yourself up because then at least the half day full days can be more structured to custom stuff and that could be anything from like black and gray roses to any anything that's structured in a custom tattoo thing but then you know I make a lot of designs and hopefully I tattoo those instead you'll you'll display those up yeah and and I've been thinking about um what did we used to do before

social media put them in people's faces yeah so my tattoo Booth I it's literally almost a whole wall covered in designs up for grabs that's great and just kind of decorating it in a way where it's aesthetically pleasing and you know you might not get people to get them tattooed right away but you plant that seed I've had people go like I was thinking about that like there's this particular one and then it it shows you which ones are most popular well if I enjoy lady faces with moths or butterflies people keep on saying that make a series yeah let them tell you what they want based off of what you love to do yeah is more important then in some cases if if you're feeling like that urgency that you know you got to book stuff you got to you know make money you got to pay bills and stuff then how can you make it work to your advantage in that way or um you know people probably have at least $2 $300 to burn in their wallet occasionally and sometimes people only only want to spend that much yeah so why aren't you designing tattoos for that price range exactly so you start to you start to figure those things out anyways those are that kind of stuff ends up on uh Wednesday to Friday you know that that stuff is being pulled in so Saturday you guys kind of all like show up kind of light like you know you show up and you're like and then you don't to draw the night before you know it's a a chance to you know hang out hang out with family and and or just do your own personal art or

play video games I love playing video games with friends that's that's my thing it's like that's my social that's my socializing handful of other tatto across the country that you or like I have good friends that live like a half an hour away at least and they have kids and all that stuff so it's a chance to I know people can relate to that it's a chance to connect but it's it's lonely if I'm like playing a game by myself so it's not fun it's not as fun yeah so Simon yeah Simon Nelson uh he'll jump on every once in a while Craig St Peter he moved yeah he works at Dan Cuban shop that's uh Missouri yeah okay and then we got Chris Chris also owns with uh aen alen's a piercer aen Simon and Chris they own Alchemist tattoo bismarks yeah um and then they have Brian who's been grew grew up with Chris and uh he's a photographer photo uh does photography for Jew the jewelry and all that stuff and do the they a great team up there he did that commercial for you yeah yeah yeah so cool can't forget about uh you know Connor um he's also o shop manager but I think he shop manages at elus not elus uh um Leviticus in uh St Paul Minneapolis okay stuff like that so there's like there's all these people all these connections of like either people who have surrounded themselves around tattooing that aren't tattooers that are kind of a part of it um yeah we all like what game do you guys play or do you play I don't know about video games so what ends up happening is there's there's sometimes

where maybe a game came out and some people are playing that and they're playing but they're hanging out so it's Discord are you familiar with Discord yeah yeah yeah like a community yeah it's a community you could have your own server so like oh really so like Maverick could have a server and there's chat points and then basically all tattooers are people who like Maverick or the community that you're building could be in the uh server and then you could have like chats yeah so like people could jump into chat you can view your uh your screen so you can like watch people play video games or like sometimes we'll draw and we'll have our our our cams on our drawing and we'll be hanging out and we'll be drawing and we can watch each other draw

we'll talk about it you might have to give me yeah yeah you can even jump in your Club kind thing we were talking about so Alchemist tattoo actually set up one for that so that like uh tattooers and then the clients can just come hang out either play video games or we just hang out and then we have like a private tattoo chat that like will go into the voice chat and we can hang out or sh share uh we were trying to get into for a while there um just kind of like we were trying to do like maybe a subject matter a month and we'd roll a D20 digital dice on Google okay and then whoever got the highest would choose the subject matter we would all kind of draw pull in and then we would critique every single one okay we would all have them posted and then we would just all get together and try to talk about that and that that that got that got busy so kind of through hard to like keep up but like it was a lot of fun when we were doing it so like we we would do things like that or just have really long conversations about tattoo machines tattoo just tattooing and yeah just kind of it was all sorts of things happening Sometimes some people were just uh drwing for their appointments while a couple people finished and they were just like playing a video game so there wasn't any particular video game like at some point Elden ring came out and that's uh you know that's uh ended up winning some awards and you know it's like people will be like oh is that an Elden rink type game it's just

like it was so popular that people call it yeah you know is it comparable to that this really good game yeah or like uh my buddy Josh and I will we'll play like valheim which is like a Norse Viking Builder uh monsters you can you can create and build and weather would affect your buildings oh okay stuff like that um and the structure so you had to build the structure also it collaps in on itself and you would go like you know fight bosses and stuff and then that would unlock certain things progression in that sense um it's like it almost seems like there there'd be particular friends that like certain genres yeah and with we would all hang out but maybe Josh and I are playing the game that we want to play and you know Chris is playing a different game and then Simon is drawing yeah know like that would be it and then that show that's fun and then people would just jump in and out and Adam is he's a memer he's he's like a meme yeah okay uh just always doing funny stuff and he would jump in and play music he wouldn't say anything and then jump out you know you just you don't know what was going to happen so it's just like just everyone just hanging out and having a good time really it was never really anything or what would be happening it was never planned I forgot how you said you how did you meet those guys up there um like you Craig oh okay Craig kind of started it Craig was hanging out with those guys and ended up working out working with them um and then Craig was like

oh you play games they they had no clue no one had any clue I was like yeah and then Discord happened and all of a sudden we were there was a point where I think we were playing games and hanging out a really large amount of time at one point yeah and then it just seems like you know some summer happens and all that stuff and then we kind of trickle out and trickle in now it's just kind of like when it happens it happens yeah or like sometimes Chris jumps in not everyone all at once you know it's just like this this group that's cool it the technology can tie us all into together like that yeah the little intimate times of of like short amounts of times in the day we have too yeah and it's just the usually the yeah and then it would be like

in the evening everyone would hang out I like you know people's kids would be bed and then that's when they would have their their time and you know Craig is a World of Warcraft nerd and see you know that's the thing about Discord you can see who's playing and what they're doing if they're in different chats you can jump in like yeah if you're like in a uh you have somebody else's server added you could just jump into their server and just hang out with it might be like I know Craig but I don't know like I kind of know his friends that's where it jumps but you guys met through tattooing obviously right and like through Instagram or something or uh we were all kind of on social media but it was the video games and the Discord that I think really kind of made it Blossom oh cool that's fun that's like a good group of artists too though yeah got some like yeah there's a lot of fun to have conversations with them like stuff that I I I don't even know if I'd be able to like really remember but just remembering the the kind of indepth like really deep conversations about tattooing it really kind of so you've done get spots up there or no yeah oh okay cool um I think I only did it once they've been they always H me to come back and I I do want to come back but then I'm doing things like this or you know it's like yeah there's only so much time so I will I'm going to get there and I think I'm just going to um you know cuz they rad friends I'll probably stay longer yeah cuzz I think

last time was like two or three days like sometimes I dip my toes in let's do just a little bit Yeah and then if it keeps on progressing then it makes sense to maybe a week long you know really enjoy it maybe we can get everybody out to Vegas yeah like a little gathering sick yeah I don't know fun Hub and I think that that works easier too in the sense that like you know what if we could find an Airbnb and we can split the cost you know yeah up with like a trade show that's like into the gaming trade shows or whatever like Mason chimato came through he wasn't even here for tattooing he was here game convention like I I know they'll all be down it's just lining it up I think challenge these days but I think it's just doing it far enough in advance you know like even if it's a year down the road I think that's how it's going to work for everyone yeah but yeah I'll I'll take the seed to see where everyone's at that' be fun yeah cuz uh I know I could even see uh all their wives come through too girlfriends all stuff we got plenty of stuff for everybody to do then we can all like hang out or like you know the the wives of girlfriends do something with the taters are doing the tattoo thing and then we all meet up and in the evening there's a possibilities for a lot of fun stuff endless Vegas I'm always I'm always done for stuff like that yeah I appreciate you coming out here as f as yeah as as happy to as first time meeting everyone actually we got to get after having like uh kind

of the maver relationship for probably a couple years I know it's a trip it's like like we were kind of talking there's still people that I haven't got to like meet in person but we talk all the time or whatever Maverick and stuff yeah we're just like constantly taking about who's doing the social media but yeah Brian Kennedy okay and we we kind of all pop in there okay yeah Brian mainly handles everything okay pretty awesome but yeah tell me more about like I don't know you're I don't know you got what you got goals for the shop or you're kind of you got like a are you real happy right now with your shop and where you going I think it's uh making a point to travel yeah I think that's something that is important I I tend to find myself if I

find myself like wanting to leave or having like this like weird feeling of like I got to change something it's Pro I just probably need to go see something new I need to go I I just need to get out of my normal and then refresh myself and come back yeah um so I'm I'm trying to really make it a point I think there's there's things in life that kind of make things up more apparent as you kind of get older and that's one thing that's like no we got to got to do the things we got to do all the things that we want to do like there's no better time than now to make sure those things are happening so that's one thing um you know I really I really care about the guys at the shop I want to see them succeed so I think the goal is is to push these guys to like get known to a point where that I can see that the you know I can see uh see what they need their strengths and their weaknesses and try to push that out of them and encourage it even if like I'm the the dad you know they're like oh whatever you know they do their eye rolls or whatever but like I know what they're doing and that's fine but like you know I'm still going to push at you a little bit so I think the goal is just to try to make sure that they're they're well-rounded they're taking care of they they're able to make sure they seem like that they they already are doing those things but just really make sure that they're uh to a point where like it's it's it already is happening I'm gone they're taking care of this stuff

and you know just making sure that the team is is solid um I've been trying to eliminate all the jobs that I got to do so I finally got somebody taking care of my books okay ended up being somebody who I grew up with that that guy is his name is Brady herba and we actually went to school together but he's like he's like I just he he used to book for bands used to do a lot of booking stuff manager stuff for that that kind of stuff he's like I'd like to do it for tattooing he's like I noticed when I would contact tattooers it take them a time to get back to me and and he's like I just want to participate in a way where like I can alleviate that and make sure that uh you're getting the tattoos you want and organizing yourself in a way that that you don't have to and I was like he wanted to start doing that and I was like let's do it I feel like I can trust you I grew up with you like it's easier for me to like let the reins and see that that Blossom and he's been doing it doing it for multiple people he wants to oh okay so I'm I'm like his only guy right now okay but like the potential is there um so that's been I didn't realize how I I needed that weight off me so it's like focusing on that stuff or like time consuming process yeah and I I have uh uh Cassie who you know we're right now just trading work for coming in and cleaning the place she's a profession one of her professions is cleaning as a professional thing and it's like uh your rate for my rate and we'll just start

heavily tattooing you and it just kind of it works out until it doesn't and we'll find something else if that's what ends up happening and um you know just kind of focusing I think for shop is alleviating a lot of of those those jobs because I can I'll get caught up doing everything because I think I have to do everything so that uh trying to balance cuz it's you know you have your personal life you you have your friends your family and the girlfriend and all that stuff and it's like I want to give that more time I want to be making sure that I'm doing those things because tattooing for me is forever yeah it's not just a couple of years so it's it's going to be stretched out for my entire life so just balance just really kind of focusing on

that balance of tattooing and the shop and personal life yeah and the hobbies and that stuff and um kind of allowing myself to even just decorate the house make make my environment feel good for me do all the yeah finding maybe joy in those things or um like personal stuff like uh you know learning how to talk and communicate better um you know maybe as a boyfriend you know things like that taking time to do that stuff or um um doing things with family or going seeing making sure that you're seeing Grandma and all like really making sure that you're like doing things that really matter in life fight get us that's that are really important and it's like stuff that just is now becoming more apparent now than ever is to focus on those things because those are the things that really matter yeah it's I maybe just a very deep person in that sense but it's you know when the money Stripped Away and the objects are Stripped Away what's left you know it's like that's again simplifying it because we we I do like my objects and I do like my the money and being able to do things with that stuff but you really can't forget what matters and I think maybe that's the goal or the focus and just trying to do what I want to do and hang out with the people I want to hang out with I think that's kind of like the ultimate sounds like you're doing a good job at it dude yeah yeah and uh just like encouraging my friends so when I want to see like my really close friend winning yeah I think lately

I've been always and just trying to figure out how I could help I think lately is like I I just hate seeing people struggle and you know how can I help yeah be being uh of service a little bit whereas like I'm just so used to like this mindset of like I want to be the best at tattooing so like that's all I could be thinking about what every Everything obsessing about that yeah and then always taking it to the point of burnout yeah and I would just i' push myself burnout push myself burnout and then it's just like you f do that no you got to find your balance and yeah and that's like ear earlier 20s where it's like only taking one day off and then eventually it's two days off and now technically it's kind of two and a half days off kind of because sometimes I'll cut it out early on Tuesdays and yeah go outside go get some sun yeah you know go get make sure that you're eating properly you know uh even if like uh buddy Hayden we talk back and forth I got to visit uh tacoms okay do you know if you know that is that's his Instagram hint okay he has this guy he's just been treading tattoos and he meals prep for him you know so he's he's eating good and working out and it's like you don't realize how important those things are um and it makes you better at coming back to work and thinking clearly and th% and you know it keeps on being brought up so it's like even if like you know on this podcast I'm saying it and a tattooer sees it like take care of yourself yes you know like you

don't it's like it's funny but like it's not it's kind of a serious thing because I have to take care of that and if I don't I'm not going to feel good and then I'm not going to do my best and that a problem turn your back on it it'll wil you know yeah so that's uh that's kind of maybe another focus is really just being very um aware uh about those things and you know we all strug struggle with those kind of things and I still do but it's just not giving up because it's like implementing these new habits that you may have spent years doing bad habits you know yeah you might still get your energy drink but just eat a carrot like that's a good start eat just bring a carrots or go to the grocery store buy thing apples and bananas and leave them at the shop put them right in front of you put them somewhere where you're going to see them and eat a couple bananas that's better than nothing yeah yeah at least goals that I've been trying to do and trying to encourage the guys at the shop to do the same yeah yeah I don't know what else what else you got what I think we're we've covered like a lot it's pretty I think we were talking about Flash yeah you were you were doing your thing and we were talking about like people don't even like uh they walk past fles and don't even know they can get it yeah kind of like how it's become like a novelty thing now right now for like early 20s so you hear you hear people because they've been trained to do custom yeah which is fine and I I try to

make a point that goes so we're monkeys on a rock spinning around we're technically all in a tribe in a sense right yes we all need we need the the Comforts of human wouldn't it make more sense to look at your body as a whole why don't you make 10 choices you and I can make we could get the penguin logo right yeah but your 10 choices and my 10 choices are going to be different that's What Makes You unique yeah not one individual tattoo is going to make you unique yeah you're thinking about it too much into detail you get an owl I get an owl you get it from somebody else I get it from somebody else get it off the wall it doesn't matter because all your choices are going to make you unique yeah and I've been telling people that and I never think about it that way right but it's like you got to think about it deeper than that like it's cool that everyone gets a lot of the same things they all going to be variations of the same thing anyway yeah totally it's not it's not anything different than anything else and I think that's what frees me from making because it doesn't matter things are made they become history in a sense people pass artists pass and then you rebr bring it around you just keep on letting it uh evolve and change and just be a part of it don't think it has to be something new I think if you let it go I think you're going to accidentally make something new more than it is that you're going to try to make something new yeah like it's going to do it when you

didn't choose to do it it just happened that way but um but yeah flash it's uh it's funny because um people they walk past it and they give you their phone and they've been fed by an algorithm to give you what's most popular so they have the world's biggest flash sheet in the palm of their hand it's been said before and I'm like pick that and then pick one off the wall next because you're doing the same thing yeah yeah yeah and even if I do my own spin on it there's nothing I can do to a symbol that is a symbol right yeah so it's fun i' I it's fun seeing it come back around I'm like well now we're trying to implement it more into our shop and even like I said pull out the flash that we had on our walls 20 plus years ago MH and figure out new ways to tell stories about about that particular Flash and who who did it and how they influenced us at that time and how many times I did that piece of flash you know it it's cool I don't know I'm trying to figure out ways to tell that and what's fun about is people don't really realize especially just like maybe somebody's on an artist anybody who touches that is just going to be different yeah all the guys in our shop did that piece of flash all the line weights would be different the color choices would be different the whip shading no whip shading smooth yeah it's just going to evolve as it's touched yeah as it's being processed through the viewer who's making it and I think that's what's interesting a a realization I've come to

with tattooing or making art is if you just let that happen it's going to make the thing that's identifiable as you see it as mine right you're going to see that because I'm just going to let it happen I don't force a particular thing to happen I do do what feels good versus like what I think it needs to be based off of what people are going to perceive it yeah cuz I'm just trying to have fun I'm trying to enjoy the process and again we're coming right back around to the the things that matter about tattooing yeah I'm I'm excited to switch some things up at our shop here pretty soon with that you have had a ton of is it your own flash or you have other so we have a lot of M uh Mr flash machine right now okay so we have two volumes on each side but it we have the little twist thing so you pull it off you can add add or Implement new ones oh okay um I've been playing a little bit with AI generated uh flash yeah oh so like little mushroom Adventures done all black and very bold illustrative and then I'll go in and just like kind of round the shape make lines maybe not touch each other so much but the goal is to do very don't spend too much time on it and just is an experiment so you'll AI generate The Flash and then you'll reillustrated it no I'll literally just go right off top of it and just use the Eraser tool and like open up lines yourp yeah or just use like uh just take some black and just like maybe color something in that just would just turn black yeah over time and

just make a flash sheet out of it and then just put generated atot tattoo I I know I know how the stuff can like culminate into is it taken from artist is it it's built from many images it's creating its own shapes whatever it is is it's just flat again it's flash again like yeah like it it's that it's a very complicated thing for people AI stuff but like uh I encourage it in a way that is positive to tattooing yeah um use it as a tool to kind of play with right now and figure out how this can become something or sometimes I've even used like even for the wizard and stuff like to be able to create like a realistic old man holding flames in his hand stuff like that and then just like quick tracing over top of it really fast then illustr and then just take it away and then layer on top of it manipulate change it evolve it that's cool as uh it's just using different methods of getting to the peace yeah because the benefit right now I think think people would be enraged that you copied which technically you didn't but also you're a collage artist and you're trying to implement it in the mindset of flash it's like there's so many rules that everybody wants it to be but the people who paved our way broke every single rule in the book to get it to where it is now yeah so what does it matter what anybody thinks are you selling tattoos to the people that are buying tattoos not the tattooers are buying the tattoos yeah yeah yeah know it's like they won't respect you but like I go I

live in an area where there's no tattooers and I go home and I hang out with particular people and I go to my house alone at night so it's like again it's like at what point do I listen to everyone saying everything listen to the comments don't listen to the I just call that chatter white noise and like you still you got to do whatever I got so much for so long for drawing my skulls my way or whatever and people talk about him like but then it became this thing of my own style and then I had a clientele booked out for months and months and months you know and all just CU I was just doing it the way that I wanted to do it right which is that wrong at all no it's not right but anyway the AI thing I think that it's an interesting tool and I think it's real fun to play with and try to figure out what the it could do I don't know yeah I mean uh um just like any piece of technology we're we're going to have the conversation of the back and forth of the bad and the good yeah and I think both conversations should be had and I think it should stay open that way and uh I think as long as you're not ripping people off yeah yeah I I think that's really what it comes down to for me uh uh you know we're all cavemen looking at cave drawings going oh did a mammoth and then you do a mammoth right next to it and then somebody else does a m it's like just let it evolve let it be the same let it be different let it uh that art has no rules or limitations it's only like what you're working with

that confines that is it acrylic paint is it a tattoo machine and skin like is it oil paints they all kind of have their fundamental rules but there is no rules after that yeah that's I'm going to with it too like you said like building flash I like how you're like it's generated out of my studio meaning I inside of here and created this and manipulated a little bit to yeah I think it's fun to tell people that like this is AI generated I used uh I've been using like Bing AI okay it's like Bing the search engine bit yeah yeah I haven't and it does really good with like illustrations and stuff so like I'll just do like bold uh simple black and white but before that I'm going to a prompt like mushroom Adventurer oh okay holding a cane and has a backpack and then let it evolve from there and then it'll just generate generate generate save them all and then go that one's good that one's good that one's good put them in 11 by4 ratio and it's just a fun way to think of it as like the trdy tattooer the street shop tatour that instead of you know also paints but when he's taking a break he's filing all of his designs that he found all his flash sheets I think it's no different yeah that's what at least my opinion is I feel like people would have something to say about it and they can yeah enjoy enjoy talking about it but I'm still going to do what I'm going to do yeah yeah and just have a good time and have a good time and I find it that it's inspiration to me for my illustrations I'm

like oh this could be really weird and then I just I get excited about it and if that's making me EXC to draw then I should definitely be using it you know yeah so that that just kind of comes around to the flash it you know Finding what works and you know it's it's interesting that even like some of the things like history repeats itself it just kind of gets regurgitated comes back around by the same people who tattooed the 9s stuff and then like uh reshapes it in ways and you know maybe it's a little curlier maybe it's a little thinner you know maybe a little bit more wide it's like the choice based off the person that is messing with it yeah it's like understanding is manipulation yeah more you understand it the more you manipulate it and then it becomes something else but it came from something old yeah it's just again it's like the traditional stuff it's like there's really cool traditional classic designs that will forever be that and then you'll see people like uh I don't know his name but his Instagram handles wonky tiger okay if you ever heard of him I don't think so really cool sci-fi Space Age space helmets Spa rocket ships laser guns guys on cow uh like Cowboys but like Space Cowboys and stuff but he structures it in a very traditional aspect right and I love I love that's that's like my favorite stuff wonky tiger wonky tiger I bought a whole bunch of his prints and I said that I had the framing stuff and I start matting and framing that stuff um uh I really

like his stuff that's another guy that I I really have inspiration for there's a guy named Dino I I don't I don't remember all their names I just remember their Instagram because I've never met them yeah yeah yeah yeah and sometimes they have their names sometimes they don't um you feel Adam Adam hathorn yeah yeah back and forth maybe sometimes uh the last time was like I want a guest spot he's like I dare you and I just haven't been there yet I'd like to I'd like to visit He he'll be out here for um designer con this his merch stuff yeah yeah which is I've been watching him do that for years been following some of these guys oh uh Derk Noble's another guy oh yeah I got yeah okay that's what I was gonna ask you about too yeah yeah I got that last year not to cut you off about that now now it's starting to Adam told you no well it it it what it is is that I like flat flat tattoos you know sometimes I'll do like a little bit of flare of like shading but I'm just getting really into just like these flat as conv structured flat they're not traditional in the sense of classic traditional designs but all these rules and implementations of like what's going to fall apart gracefully okay I just love that yeah that's my favorite kind of tattooing lately is the appreciation of knowing what that is going to look like so like my style is changing based off those facts yeah but also breaking rules trying to see where you can break the rules in the structure of traditional that's fine

cuz then cuz then it's almost one of those things like the thin lines all my thin lines are never really like solid black lines they're gray lines I heard are really light lines are they 50/50 like you know half water half and it's like structuring everything and the only way I learned that was getting tattooed by Rob Goodkind okay that's what I took from him okay or then I got I have a Tom stom piece yeah let me to do a little tattoo right you know that's fun like yeah so that Craig okay um oh man isn't that the worst a bunch of artists every time we get together we forget everything Noah more yeah he uh he did a piece on the back of my leg in Austin Texas show really like nor Scotty monster beautiful Rob good kind okay I haven't got anything by Rob and he's been I've been on he's been fun uh Taylor Court okay there's that one and then you got Tom Strom yeah oh I think I got that when I was like that's awesome 21 okay so it's like a almost a decade um we got uh this is Zack black yeah um and then I got Emanuel Mendo on my leg I got you saved like a lot of your I'm still doing it it was so fun cuz like my whole left arm is pretty much still open yeah now I'm I'm starting to um appreciate like one here one here one that's what I want to do I want to start doing that yeah my upper torso is I think I want to I want to implement in like fantasy So like um just fantasy stuff yeah I don't know like whatever that is like that could be alien spaceship I'm stuck on all black

lately I just want black work like flat simple like if you can make it t to look there's stuff that's like kind of tribal influence but it has like an eye and it's more curly I've been really enjoying that stuff that's kind of what I I want to kind of roll up here yeah is that that really Punchy readable yeah like that stuff when I'm like 80 5 it's like even the color's gone that black and that boldness and it thickened out a little bit I love that look you don't have anything on your back nothing on my back nothing on my front oh really uh just starting to finally get stuff above my knees oh okay I'm like I'm pretty blank yeah so you you like jumped in there basically just focused on yourself and tattooing and didn't get tattooed a whole I'm addicted to saving yeah a little bit I uh I don't rely I don't rely on the government I don't rely on anybody I need to create uh my own security okay and uh there's definitely things that I would really maybe like to do um I I took the Artful dollar course oh okay with the the Ryan yeah Ryan Roy yeah uh oh how was that that was good Len to Wasing there was there was things that was so there's going to be people that are struggling on saving mhm and then there's people that have a savings and don't know what to do with it yeah um he does this money waterfall system that like in my brain it structures it in a way where I don't worry yeah I like have savings and high yield savings accounts everything's automatically yeah and what's cool

and what's cool too is at the end of the year it's like oh you need this form printed out you print it out and you just give it to your tax person and be like I made this amount of money off that and and was really cool is like uh even during tax time tax Tuesday you'd work with the tax guy and he would like help you out hey you have questions and you would do your on taxes and yeah uh and he was always very much like if you need help like message me right away like that's cool like don't um so it it gave me um perspective of things that I knew I was doing right yeah and then implementing A system that works I have a living expense account and then I have a uh my business account and they're totally separate I have um my business account having money go into a a tax savings account yeah so I I took my yearly amount and it's just taking from there and then I figured out all my living expenses and that goes into a separate account and then I just kind of deviate um that stuff so like I have some going to a retirement fund I have some just trickling just $10 a week just yeah you don't you don't think about it yeah you just let it let it uh evolve like I don't know I don't know what I'm going to do with that I'm just the money's there but it's he designed it in a way where it breaks down to a point where you see that you don't have as much money as you think because you don't have $400 yeah you have $400 trickled down into chunks like people are like oh you must be like rich or

something you know and it's like I go home I save my money yeah and it trickles down so it's yeah I don't get all that but like I'm also not buying yeah bunch of stuff the you mentioned like it's real affordable where you live is or have you I don't know if you own the building that you're in where your tattoo shops in is that something you can try to maybe do in the future is like I've thought about it I've always I've always had the dream of like living upstairs and tattooing downstairs and I always thought it'd be cool to have like a uh a built-in balcony yeah that is netted uh and has a nice roof and there's plants and yeah you know maybe like certain people that I trust that have like this experience of like tattooing while the breeze is rolling through and there's like and there's the bird feeders everywhere there's birds feeding hear birds and the sounds and I always like that would be like the ultimate goal for me kind of goes back to like what you were talking about with like visual I izing your whole entire environment and your illustration aspect I think it sounds like you obviously have your vision for where your your place can be your home for tattooing so uh definitely don't be afraid to get out there and like check out all the commercial real estate in your area you talked about people saving money and not being able to do with it if you're good at saving your money those are good things to do with your money yeah that way it also like and helps um you know

just secure your destiny like what you yeah and and I have and I have offered to buy the place that I'm in now and they're just like we're going to rent it out for a while I do this I'm like yeah cuz they got a tenant in there but like go on loopet Lo I'm always looking oh yeah do that and then just if you yeah there's this one that's for rent that I but look look for the ones that are for sale yeah and then set your goals your savings goals to get up to the point talk to that dude about Ryan he I'm sure he can help you about how much you would actually need to save up to buy that building that you can have that right Destiny set in stone like I was uh Big M he he bought his building in Dayton or Daytona Dayton Ohio okay and uh I don't know

I was just like so proud of him like it's cool I've known him since he very first started kind of getting out about tattooing but uh I don't know I just think that that's like something that tattooers should definitely think about as like where they're tattooing and how they can control that environment in the future be right super valuable and like something that you can have I guess I just uh your kids or if you rent that shop out later on or somebody else takes over it I think the I think the thing with all that stuff and I I don't think I've ever done it yeah is the commitment aspect of do I want to put that do I want to put my time and effort more into where I'm at in my community yeah is always something that I've kind of struggled with yeah because if if I do I want to be Allin yeah um because I was born and raised there is that the place you know it's like that constant question of like you know where you know obviously where's the place and i' if I've been doing cuz I had the realization I'm like you you've done everything that you said you wanted to do in this spot you know you're you're making the yearly income you were looking for you're doing the tattoos that you want to do uh now you're doing retirement like you're doing all the things you're always you're doing the things that you would always said that you want wanted to do and now you're doing them so like where else do you do it if it's already working where you're doing it like those are the questions and

that stirs up so it's like you know think about too if you own the building then you can always still be a part of your community that your roots are deeply into and care about that building and restore it that's why I really want that one that we rent in because a big garage in the back oh yeah and we we own like uh a long time ago bought like the same TIG welder that my dad uses at his work oh cool so we have all the machine equipment I love building with wood yeah and welding and all that I love building yeah like just figuring stuff out creating um and it would be really cool to like do do ideas I have a lot of ideas in my head about you can house and help the and it would just be nice to have a hub where it's all in the same spot I live I make art I build in the back it's all yeah yeah it's it's all encompassing you own it and nobody can tell you yeah it's like my Island cuz then you realize the island is how you create the island is exactly where you're supposed to be you're putting the pictures on the wall you want to see you're selling tattoos how you want to sell them um this is how we do this here and I get to do the things in the back in between appointments and I can take a day just to do non- tattoo things and the guys have me there to be able to do the owner thing responsibility I think that if you're asking question that's the ultimate goal sounds like you got a clear ass vision and it's one of those things where I could do it yeah I could buy a building

yeah I've been ready but that's good am I ready up in here to like make that decision yeah I mean it's like getting a tattoo you can overthink it and it's going to be there forever and it's going to do this and that and yeah you know you just take the step and then you you have this the it's already done you know and then you can you can um you know you can fill out the building in any which way you want and then and right you only want half of it then you can sublet out the other half and then you know and that just you know provide security for your team and everybody too it's cool I'm like I've been renting my building for over 20 years and if you look at how much you paid for it and I'm like yeah you could have got that yeah and now like in our city like you like commercial real estate is very expensive you know it's like yeah I don't know if you know if we'll ever be able to buy the building I've been renting for a long time right you know it would be nice I look at all I think maybe even after this conversation it's something more yeah kind of more putting putting more just thought into it letting it I say just like think about it and then think about every step it takes to do it and then as you're doing that you're learning and then you helps you make that decision like okay cool right or maybe our lease is up in two years so that gives you two years to think about it cuz you're not going to move you know so yeah cuz then on top of it we actually have um uh we have

licensing for the establishment that's every two years and then we have to license ourselves yeah yeah um so that's I think we just renewed it so there's like another two years yeah and it's it could be a twoe process obviously you know and then maybe something comes up a year and a half from the now and then that you never know how perfect it could all work out and then out of your and you got the time to get build I think it's even one of those situations if that was the case it would be like walking it down the street yeah yeah like driving it down the street just like cuz it's like you know it's there's not a lot to choose for imagine it's it's there's like the historical section of it which is like all the older buildings um and I'm starting to know uh re see that new people are trickling in uh the faces are different it's starting to I'm noticing a change in in Little Falls there's this kind of maybe like a little bit of an expansion uh a change uh uh people are it's just different people different cultures it's starting to you know maybe I I started to notice a lot of people are moving out of the metropolitan area cuz it's costing more and they're trickling out and these new faces are coming through and you know they're coming to get tattooed and they're buying the buildings they're buying the homes and redoing them you know those things and that's when all the values start creeping up but I don't know I push I push you I push you to do it I just love like the the

dreamy to me like coming up big living in a bigger crazier city is like it just seems so beautiful to be able to live in a small town and be able to Country especially have so much history there it's like really cool well I think seems like an honor to be able to like so I think I think the ultimate dream was too is like a lot of times those buildings come with like kind of apartment style stuff yeah so who's not to say that uh people who are getting larger work can stay and it's and it's like a part of the experience and then now you're kind of creating more of an experience than like oh well like we live in the city so like you just come down yeah like or somebody gets on a plane comes down gets it's it's a little bit the Dynamics the guarantee is the same I need a guarantee that I'm going to be there and ready and I got to take off work and um but really ultimately that's what I've learned about tattooing is giving people a guarantee yeah and they'll show up yep do it think about it yeah I've always been thinking about it but but you kind of bringing it up it's like I mean I I've kind of given my mind a break from thinking about it a little bit not that I don't want it just that if I'm obsessing or thinking about something then it it as like why was I even thinking about it in the first place you it's kind of it twist up the the yeah the idea you're in a unique position I feel like should we wrap it up yeah the camer uh every single one of our cameras turned off no

that's I don't understand what's going on we're learning um but anyway that's all good yeah I don't I think that ends on a good note though like I I think you're you're you're a talented dude and people come to you and you're in the this unique position to where you able to like kind of just build your own destiny and control it and this from this beautiful town that you have so much Rich history and it's really cool seems like I think I gotta I gotta always remember sometimes other people's perspectives on it right because I was I was born in the same Hospital in that town as my grandpa my mom and my sister yeah so it's like I'm so ingrained I live that life yeah that sometimes I forget what life I'm living because I'm just living my life right we get out about like we said you know it's like get to be around different people and you know look at ourselves differently you know right right giving A New Perspective a fresh perspective usually come back and with all that all this experience all these conversations and yeah it does it does affect and shaped the maybe the where your your path through your mind's going a little bit kind of rejuvenate the things that are gen genuinely things that are yeah that you want on the life I guess well dude thanks so much for coming here it was honestly it's like super awesome awesome I love like you're an inspiration to me like your art style your illustrations are so great and your tattoos are phenomenal and um I'm GNA get tattooed by you

yeah so we'll do something I'm excited to do yeah yeah yeah so thank you very much I appreciate it Anthony Elliott check him out well uh we're on this camera this is our backup camera uh what's your Instagram again uh it's a Elliot 2 two L's 2 T's yep you to remember Anthony Elliot II a Elliot two and Elliot's t or which Elliot's tattoo yeah okay that's it's named after our name because you can't run away from the name so yeah well dude thank you again appreciate it thanks guys for tuning in

My biggest fear when I was apprenticing was that I was going to get fired cuz you know I put so much of myself into this I was like I need I need to do this that's the thing cuz sometimes I'll do small tattoos in my head I'm like oh I'll knock this out in 2 3 hours not an issue start getting in there you're like oh I was like oh this has more lines than I remember or the client doesn't sit good or the client doesn't sit good yeah dude if you want to make money if you don't have a college degree Las Vegas is the place to be you know like it's insane so what's happening this is Austin with uh support your local tattoo super excited today we got Jeffrey Bowser in the house yes sir super excited this dude how many times am I going to say super excited I say as many times as we need to right every time I do my intro I'm all super excited I need to fix that but anyway so yeah he's American traditional tattooer based out of Las Vegas here fantastic dude I've been tattooed by you multiple times myself so I was excited to share your interests and stories and how you got into the industry with everybody and so what's up thanks for coming thank you for having me yeah this is awesome you got a Super Rad setup here yeah we're in the house yeah we are so yeah like so what's up you've been Tattooing in Vegas for like five years now you yeah coming up on five years uh this past October was five years actually and uh yeah dude it's been amazing I love it I love tattooing um I don't think I'll

ever do anything else ever ever unless you become a famous gamer we talked about that yeah definitely even definitely even then dude like there's just something that tattooing does for me that nothing else has ever done in my life uh I've been doing a lot of different things growing up and probably this is the thing that stuck the hardest yeah yeah so me too man what uh like so how long you been in Vegas for I moved out to Vegas when I was six years old I'm actually from Turkey really yeah so uh my mom's Turkish my dad's American Way um he was in the Air Force so I was born and raised in Turkey we moved to Vegas when I was six no okay so bilingual then I am biling I speak Turkish yeah definitely um yeah dude I read write speak you know all self taught all right yeah I don't even pick up on any type of accent or anything too so that's why oh yeah for sure but uh I grew up on an American Air Force Base out in Turkey so uh like all the schooling everything was all done in like American educational system process okay yeah was that so it wasn't as dramatic Pro well I mean it's culture shock still still but getting out here yeah for sure I mean you know being a 6-year-old there's really nothing like Las Vegas anywhere in the world you know sure so um I I remember seeing the lights for the first time all the neon lights going onto the strip it blew my mind dude it blew my mind it was Insanity gambling in the grocery stores like everybody was Al so what year what was that roughly

cuz oh man I I moved here when I was like eight and like but I was 89 that had to be like 2003 dang so you were six when you were 2003 oh you're young I forgot I I don't know yeah it it had to been around the early 2000s um okay so I opened my shop in 2003 oh no kidding oh wow yeah see I was just barely walking so straight from Turkey that's great yeah dude um I don't really get to go back as often as I would like to uh it's a beautiful country too man like it's amazing out there filled with history filled with culture but being a dual citizen for turkey themselves it's they have mandatory military service for men oh okay Israeli does that or is Israel yeah yeah Israel does it a lot of a lot of countries actually do that and uh and I understand why they do it it's just hard for me to understand why I would have to do it when I'm living you know in a different country oh so for you to go back you would have to serve is that what you're saying I would have to serve wow exactly um um so uh a couple years ago I had to go through the Consulate in La for the Turkish Embassy and I had to jump through hoops trying to tell them like hey like I live here I'm from here like everything I know is here if I do go and serve like my reading and writing is probably at an elementary level you know so it's not like I'm like fluent fluent so like what what are you guys going to have me doing you know like throwing me in the sh or something you know like so oh that's wild dude yeah dude and

uh because of that thankfully I was able to extend the uh like the service uh until I turned 35 so we got we got some years to kill before okay I have to figure out what to do when that time comes but damn that's crazy okay damn yeah so so you just jumped right into Vegas and like I don't know then yeah where were some of the culture shock things that that H you oh man I mean uh when I was younger I had a speech impediment okay yeah so uh when I was younger you could tell that I wasn't 100% assimilated to American society or however you want to put it um but yeah dude but you know also growing up on uh an American Air Force Base there wasn't much of a culture shock when it came to coming out here because on the American Air Force Base everything was American anyways the housing the cars like everything was just that's a trip shipped from here to there so there wasn't much of a difference and um culturally there's honestly not much of a difference because turkey is also like a Melting Pot of different cultures yeah um there wasn't much of a like oh wow this is this is massively different than what I'm used to uh thankfully yeah um and you know like I also grew up not really caring about like what people thought and like how people reacted to who I was yeah there wasn't any like huge shock when it came to anything like that yeah that's R yeah do you have any being on Air Force Bas back in Turkey did you have any like memories of tattooing or being exposed to tattoos when

you were young not when I was that young not when I was I don't really remember too many that young I I kind of do but like I remember my but my dad's buddy had a gold tooth and a neck tattoo see and I was like that's tight that's yeah that was kind of like my early kind of no man I uh I remember my first encounter with actually seeing my my parents had tattoos growing up as well so like my dad had a couple tattoos my mom had a couple tattoos seeing those obviously like I was like yeah I need some of those you know yeah for sure and my dad had this really cool like Cobra on his on his leg and and you know this was back probably when he got it in the early 90s so like there was that different style and it it was really cool but um the very first first time I really remember noticing tattoos was actually when I got into Middle School yeah um when I got in the Middle School uh you know Avenge Sevenfold yeah yeah yeah I loved that band that was my favorite band growing up okay so dang they record right next door sometimes the guys recording studio next door the guys his brothers in Avenge Sevenfold no way I don't know any details other than that I only met him once but yeah dude I love those guys and this was back when MTV used to still play music so I'm seeing these guys online and or on MTV in the early mornings getting ready for school and I'm like this is so awesome exactly dude I was blown away I was like these guys look so sick and then you know being a little middle

schooler I'm thinking to myself how can I look like these guys you know and um this was still back in the day where like tattoos were still kind of STI matized and like people were still kind of like oh if you get tattoos you're never going to get hired and I grew up hearing that yeah you know so um the way my little brain worked was well what can I do to be able to look like that without ruining my life essentially you know okay and um coming up with a solution already yeah you know the first step actually which is hilarious was to start playing music cuz that's what they were doing you know and um so I picked up a Guitar uh I was in Orchestra in middle school and dude I was atrocious oh my goodness I was so bad with music no it did not dude I was like all right well music's not not it for me like what else can I do and same thing dude little little brain was like why don't you do the tattoos then you know oh no way yeah dude and um specifically that was tattoos was your motivation to start illustrating exactly and but like you know uh like I knew that's kind of it's crazy to think of that all of it was based off of just an aesthetic I just wanted to have a specific aesthetic I wanted to be able to look how I wanted to look and and that drove me which is crazy to think of I think I mean that's when you found out you're an artist yeah 100% um and even like you know in Middle School my counselors were like hey you're not doing good in Orchestra and I'm not kidding dude I

used to play the cello do you know what the cello is the one that you're sitting in the chair right exactly dude I used to go into class I would set up my cello and I would just put my arms down wrapped around the neck of the cello and I'll just pass out I'll just put my head down in between my arms wrapped around this cello just cradling this thing yeah just knocked out and um to be fair like yeah that was that was not the move for me uh music was was not the move for me but uh my counselors actually were like hey why don't you try art instead okay and they had no idea about any of these you know thoughts that were going through my middle school mind but dude like I had an amazing art teacher named Mr shootz uh this guy was amazing like this dude was such a good teacher he cared about all of his students um and that's what actually kind of got me into the whole becoming an artist thing and um yeah dude that's right yeah I would love like I don't know I mean yeah anytime you have you that one teacher I have young kids right now so I think about their schooling a lot and how minimal amount of teachers I feel like actually make an impact on my life oh unfortunately but it's fun when you have that one and luckily that was an art teacher for me my uh senior year was my art teacher that made that click for me too but that's awesome in high school yeah yeah yeah but well I mean I've been drawing ever since i' been a bab a little little man but yeah yeah so he so he motivated you

to start drawing and did you start drawing tattoo specific artwork oh no man like you know how we would do uh like school school projects we were just you know self-portraits um some of the more abstract styled stuff yeah uh but he was so rad dude like he would let us kind of do anything and um I was a huge doodler like I would just constantly always dude just always just drawing nonsense like even stick figures even like little comic book strips like just just drawing nonsense all the time and um that was what got me into art like as a whole and as I grew up uh and you know like I was still finding my way and uh in middle school I was uh skateboarding okay and that was actually the very first thing I ever fell in love with doing yeah um outside of video games and and art that was the very first thing that I enjoyed doing the most and um thankfully I got really good at doing that as well um do you remember extreme thing yeah yeah yeah yeah uh back when extrem par at Desert Bree yeah dude they used to have the skate competition okay so like I would join that we would do the skate competition so you've been a pretty you I mean it sounded like you've been real competitive at other things you were telling me some other so we'll get into that I'm massively competitive man like um it's a good thing and it's a bad thing for sure you know um but yeah dude like and I felt like skateboarding kind of went hand inand with art as well because you get to you know well the whole industry

is Art driven to like everything that I based any of like my kind of branding or anything like that I always think back to like the 90s and skateboarding like what this company did and how they did this and what you know I'm my whole illustration style is just based on like skeletons doing weird partying and doing you know like pal Peralta ripping out like those were all the things that like were definitely huge influence on me too it's like it's fun how skateboarding and tattooing go hand in hand so many tattooers are inspired by 100% dude 100% so you how were you winning competitions or comp you were in it and you had the balls to get in there and do it which is badass exactly and uh and I used to be a silly ass kid dude uh this was still

back in the day when um we were like sagging our pants you know and I was taking that to the extreme I was like putting my pants below my butt just kind of walking around hella Goofy and and uh this was also like my style was so so weird because I had this like skateboarder um hardcore seeny weeny mixture of styles where like skinny jeans with long hair with baggy shirt and yeah yeah sagging the pants it it was insane um but like it was you know like being a kid growing up like I didn't I didn't think anything of it you know uh looking back at it seeing photos back then I was like wow what the hell was I doing I love it all man like those were all really great memories I have um yeah back then you dra drawing too while you're skateboarding and everything to you kept doodling once you started stop okay uh doodling was always just something that I would do um and like these weren't great Doodles either you know you know like these were just like just crazy types type drawings and um yeah dude I loved it I thought it was a lot of fun to do that's fun yeah I just I just lost no you're basically back to like uh I don't know we just kind of seeking for inspiration and like first um you know you're like tattooing like what kind of like you know as you're drawing are you seeing tattoos on your parents like what kind of maybe fast forward a little bit few years like what were some of your first experiences to getting into like watching some a friend get tattooed or something oh yeah

no well uh I start I got my very first tattoo when I was 16 yeah so I started pretty early on uh it was done professionally in a shop uh mom mom took you or some or it was my dad yeah my dad was like you know what he wants it okay let's do it and uh and we found someone that was willing to do it you know and it was challeng at times oh you went right on the chest went straight for the chest it was just some lettering some lettering uh so it's really small yeah but yeah I got that signed off but as soon as I man what was this I think this was I think this was precious dude like this was over 10 years ago down on Charleston that one yeah the one over on Charleston yeah yeah yeah and like I said 10 years ago you know so like those memories are

kind of blurry but um I I remember walking into that shop and smelling the green soap and like just seeing everyone doing what they were doing listening to music and all the art on the walls I was blown away and this was back when the shops had those um those like flash sheets that yeah oh like the racks on the wall I still have mine dude I love that and uh you know this is the first time I'm seeing like art at this scale yeah you know so like before this like I never knew anything about references or like how people would you know change designs and kind of create it their own and yeah and then seeing it and then watching them do it because this guy's drawing out what I want just straight up in front of me that itself was blowing moting and um that was one of my very first moments where I was like all right you know what this might be what I need to get into yeah um and I always told myself growing up I was like you know what like I want to get into doing this I want to do this when I'm 18 I want to try to get into it as soon as I can unfortunately that's not how life works you know uh but I got lucky either way you know uh I started my apprenticeship when I was 23 okay uh my apprenticeship was shorter than the average it was only a year long um it was a very traditional styled apprenticeship uh come in every day clean the shop answer the phones um set up everyone's stuff and don't complain you know and that's a great rule actually I'm a huge fan of that rule I am too I

love it you know and and I'm that type of person anyways I try not to complain uh I try to have a pretty positive outlook on a lot of things so but you know what dude like I told myself you know like hey I want to do this let let's let's just do it yeah you know and um I was getting tattooed a little a little younger than when I turned 23 I want to say like 19 or something and uh one of the artists that used to work at the shop uh was like hey they're looking for an apprentice oh okay like do you still want to do this and uh I was like dude more than anything in the world that's Co you were already pursuing it and being vocal about it while you're getting tattooed exactly yeah so the artists that were tattooing me knew I wanted to become one um and you know it's it's like even now like five years in I still don't really have a great understanding of how that really worked you know like I just feel like anybody does it's just kind of crazy right we all get in in the weirdest ways and like I'm here for it I'm here for itally and uh yeah dude he he told me he was like Hey look man like this isn't probably what you think it's going to be like uh but if it's something that you want to do I'll put in a good word for you uh couple hours later uh the shop owner hits me up he's like hey so and so said that you're looking for an apprenticeship word for word are you sure you want to ruin your life is what he says to me and I'm like more than anything in the world sign me up dude sign

me up let me get into this and uh but dude I was so excited you know and um and at this point I have like a portfolio you know it's I have no idea how to really do anything correctly you know so like this portfolio is kind of filled with some some Madness were you copying like a I don't know more traditional stuff right right out of the gate right out of the gate when I was doing my drawings back in the day even today I still you know I'm still doing traditional but like I wasn't sure about how to like utilize black I wasn't sure how to like create different line weights things like that uh like my knowledge to drawing was still at a very very basic level but dude took me on anyways they're like you know what come on in bring your stuff let

me take a look at it uh and this was actually really funny I come into the shop I introduce myself to everyone I introduced myself to the owner that's nice um and we're all just hanging around like he's not really asking me many questions he's just like so you want to do this and I'm like yeah uh I do like yeah what whatever you need me to do I'm here for it um one of the other artists actually had hit one of uh like a newborn baby okay in the shop with them just not to like hang out but he just came in to say what's up but uh yeah I know probably not the best place for a baby to be but um they're not walking yet they can't get into the Sharps Containers or anything exactly but he had a bowl of Cheerios the baby had a bowl of Cheerios spilled it everywhere all right as soon as the baby spills they're like they don't even say anything they just look at me they look at the Cheerios and that was was it dude and literally I look at them and it clicked with me I knew immediately I was like oh they want me to clean this up so I was like where's the broom you know like where's the mop where's the broom I'll take care of this right now oh good and um I go into the back I grab it I start sweeping everything up and as soon as I did that they're like all right when do you want to start oh good dude yeah that self motivation it was dude yeah what shop was that that was Timeless that was Timeless tattoo um unfortunately it's no longer around uh I think they closed down shops like two

or three years ago um it was a very reputable shop for sure I know uh that was right down the street too right on Eastern or something like that that was over on Las Vegas Boulevard actually oh oh when they moved out south or something yeah yeah okay yeah yeah uh the very south end of the strip for sure uh across the street from the South Point yeah yeah and um right now I think it's I can't I can't remember what the new shop is called uh but some someone took over yeah a couple years back so you were there for a year grinding it out doing yeah dude um first three months uh I was there seven days out of the week during good yeah you were you working too at the time I was yeah uh that was I'm not going to lie that was the hardest moments I've ever had in my life that was a challenge um cuz I was working grave shift at noou hotel in Caesar's Palace really yeah and that was from 11:00 p.m. to 7: a.m. yeah and what were you doing no bo I was front desk oh okay I was front desk I was just checking people in yeah you knew how to talk to people and like be correct with people when being shitty and all that stuff like most old school tattooers never had that experience and never had real jobs before that right so like your young the younger generation your generation already had it they seem to always have other jobs and know how to kind of like react with or just work with people before they went into this industry which made my life as a shop owner and like bringing people in so

much easier dude trying to tame like a old school tattoo especially when I was younger than them was I'm not trying to you can't tame them you're just like like hey man could you please not call the customer a you know it's like please no seriously a you're like all right I get it but like can we find something in the middle I love it you know and and I feel like there needs to be that yeah there needs to be that mixture like some people it it works for them you know it works for some people to be a little bit more like sandpaper you know I'm not I'm not that person I'm more of a really laid-back like I'm chill I'll listen to what you got to say type of deal but um but I respect it you know and I and I like that old school mentality too yeah well and add some flavor to the shop that's damn sure if everybody's like super well behaved and shows up and no one's hung over no one's like stay up late playing video games still five we don't have anything to talk about just like how was your day okay cool I'm gonna get back to work like yeah no um you're grinding it out down there you said three months and you were just not doing anything but just uh yeah dude the first three months um like I said dude 11:00 p.m. at night 700 a.m. in the morning I'm at I'm at my hourly job right uh my my apprenticeship was unpaid it was uh and I didn't have to pay for it either okay so I I lucked out 100% yeah dude so like I I worked for them for free and they taught me what they knew but I was I

had to be at the shop from 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. every day seven days out of the week and my body could only handle that for three months graveyard shift alone is very difficult thing I I know it just because of a lot of us in Vegas have had to work that it's it's a hard hard thing to I don't know just to deal with daily going to sleep at that's in the morning it is crazy and the Desert Sun it's so hot already it's like 1:0 in the summer 8:00 in so and you're hot in your and you can't get the blinds there's always like laser beam shoting through the dude uh and so then to go you went did you go home take a nap and then go to the shop 100% yeah 100% I would uh not a full eight you know no no no it was 2 hours sometimes maybe an hour and a half uh and and that was the same thing like I would have to get off uh get out of the shop go home and do the same thing so each day I was probably getting about three to four hours of sleep and when you're get into the shop no one gives a about it no one cares no no one cared at all they were just like yo make sure you're not lifeon though you know no dude I feel like it taught me a lot I it definitely taught me that my body was not able to do that yeah you know like it was just like yeah you could do that for a while yeah but dude like it it changed uh I felt like my brain activity was changing um like I was be becoming extremely irritable yeah for the slightest miscon misconvenience so like the slightest thing would would trigger me and

I would explode dude and and I'm not that type of person I'm not the type of person to start like wilding out and acting crazy you know uh but there there was moments really there was moments like with the co-workers or I mean you're um no I always try to keep my a levelhead with my co-workers uh at at work um at Caesar's as well as uh in and my biggest fear when I was apprenticing was that I was going to get fired like cuz you know I put so much on myself into this I was like I need I need to do this and um that was my main focus that was my main goal uh and I came to the conclusion that like you know what like I might not be making an hourly wage but I should be focusing all of my energy into this and it took like I said it took me three months to kind of get the brain juices flowing to come to that idea uh and I just had to I had to quit working at noou ah okay so um was a good job that's too you know yeah it's great location and Company um definitely dude and uh and you know like dude that if if you want to make money if you don't have a college degree Las Vegas is the place to be you know like it's insane you could do anything and everything here and like School wasn't for for me uh even middle school high school like I just it was started losing interest 100% And U boring exactly and and like I'm not a morning person yeah you know so not being a morning person going to school at 7 a.m. 6: a.m. that's crazy to me you know yeah you're dead asleep halfway through your

classes I dropped out pretty quickly dude it it was thankfully you know shout out uh Obama for the No Child Left Behind situation cuz that helped me for sure I was failing classes they're like yo push this kid on he don't it don't matter just get him out of here that's funny but you know but I had no um like academic strive you know like I did not care about it same um and and I always thought to myself I was like well like I'll go into a trade school oh I don't need a college degree I don't need one of these or those uh and that that's not for everyone you know um but it it worked out for me yeah so you quit and then like how so how were you kind of making it work like uh getting through that apprenticeship yeah dude uh well you know I was

still young I was still living at home at this point as well you had a little help there yeah my mom was a huge help those first couple of years dude 100% And um she always supported me as well so like she was the backbone to to pretty much everything I was able to achieve you know um because without her like there's there's no way I would have been able to survive she was smart enough to just know you needed to be happy and probably saw that you had Drive in you so whatever you're going to do just just do it do the best you can and she knew she was like all right uh this kid is definitely not going to be doing well in school he ain't going to be a doctor he's not going to be a doctor exactly and uh and I have an older sister as well but uh

she's very academically inclined okay so uh uh like you know she could do that but let me let me try my way you know and um and it worked out you know and I I wouldn't change any of it dude like I feel like all of the things that I went through with my apprenticeship with uh working two jobs the graveyard I feel like that all built my character and um it taught me life lessons as well you know yeah dude those days were tough 100% those days were tough well and you're and you're also like my experience youngster in a tattoo shop everybody feel like they amplify their personality around you because you're young and they see you like there's definitely guys that gas it up and they just want to on you and talk to you and like you know just to see like how almost from their upbringing too it was just them testing you even more which was I think a super valuable 100% no there was there was called every name all the dude I used to have to get down like when my mentor would walk like whenever he said I had to get down on my knees and kiss his belt buckle no way some degrading ass but I don't know I just looked at it as like all right bro like I want a tattoo I'm I'm not going to blow you but exactly dude whatever it takes though man just it like they humiliate you in front of your friends and whatever you're like whatever bro like man ah some very hum humiliating things I remember my my hazings were not crazy thankfully uh they would make me do weird things they were like uh eat eat

this packet of crickets you know yeah yeah yeah but the that's like dumb you do with your friends anyway after watching jackass exactly and uh and and the thing is is I see this guy he brings a box of crickets I I don't know where he got this you're like shaking your head right when you see him yeah and I'm just like but you know like I'm also I like to think of myself as worldly yeah I know people eat crickets around the world sure I'm I'm not I'm like it's not poisonous it's not going to kill me it's not going to upset my stomach so and on top of it the box says sour cream and onion flavor it's built for eating yeah yeah yeah so I'm like I'll eat these yeah let me see a couple of these and I start eating them I'm like yeah dude they're they're actually pretty good iron protein delici soon as I say this dude as soon as I say this the dude that brought the Box in yeah he's like oh wait let me see some of those and uh yeah dude and you know uh one of one of the craziest things was uh you know how shops have sauce drawers right okay so like just from like fast food restaurants just a compilation of a million different sauces well they thought it would be hilarious to mix all the sauces all of the sauces all right and I'm talking like suicide sauce oh my goodness dude like Teri from Jack In The Box hot sauce from canes Ranch yeah some ranch from somewhere where you know just and some of these are expired some of these have been sitting in this drawer for for quite some time

dude and they put it into a rinse cup they mix it all together they're like drink this they're all circling around me watching me and I'm looking at it I'm smelling it I'm like this is not good like I can I'm telling you right now this is going to make me throw up and I'm trying to make sure that they don't they're like all right don't drink it don't drink it n they wanted it they wanted to see me throw up dude as soon as I I and it's like a taking it's like taking shot you know as soon as I took it took one little swallow it goes halfway down to my throat and I taste all of it I taste all the flavors of all of these sauces most distinguished sauce was this expired teriak sauce from Jack In The Box I knew this was the one that was going to make me throw up dude it immediately my mouth goes and I'm about to just spew all over the shop I run to the bathroom I start throwing up like I'm literally throwing up it's not even in my stomach and it's coming straight out dude and they're laughing their asses off and you got to clean it all up and I have to clean it all up Insanity I loved it though I thought it was a lot of fun man like I felt like uh like a ride of passage in some ways you know and uh and the way that I looked at it you know you you get an idea of how these things kind of go while you're in it you know and like I'm thinking to myself well like they're just making me do that they all had to do yeah you know probably lighter than what they had to do too exactly cuz dude

I've heard nightmare stories you know and uh and I I'm truly blessed you know like mine was not that bad I was not with as hard as a lot of people I know were yeah um so I am thankful for that uh but the downfall of it was no one really wanted to teach me how to tattoo see they're all just they're clowning on you and clean up but yeah you're not getting no I know yeah so but that that was fine because you know same thing like I I was telling myself I want to be here yeah it pushes you to be the one that draws the information out of them exactly yeah that's how I was and uh I remember specifically uh there was this one time I was hovering and you know how some people don't like that at all especially in the back oh yeah so I was hovering uh and this is my boy Jesse all right uh this was back when Jesse was still working at Timeless uh this was early on in my apprenticeship so I didn't really know anything all right the one that did your arm the one that did my arm Co yeah and uh he just kind of looks back at me as I'm hovering over his shoulder trying to see what he's doing and he's like what the are you doing oh and I and like I don't know I'm just like I'm just watching yeah and he looks at me he's like I didn't say you could watch oh yeah and that's when it clicked I was like oh like I'm being a nuisance right now oh yeah so I went straight to apologizing I'm like Yo dude my my bad like I didn't I didn't know I was like please don't fire me please don't fire me cuz at that

time I was also the Shop's Apprentice too so so yeah everybody's kind of like yeah taking taking you on but that was one of the very first lessons I learned I was like all right you know what some people aren't going to want me to be on their back just kind of looking over their shoulders some people want to keep whatever they know to themselves that's perfectly fine you know like I'm just going to have to find this information however I can yeah or yeah you always insert the question first do you mind if I check you know like at conventions you learn that real quick too like peeking over somebody's head and you're like hey you mind if I take a peek can yeah step into your space yeah yeah and uh and that was another thing too I was like all

right you know what I like my personal space everyone else likes their personal space I should respect that yeah yeah and uh and that's kind of where that kind of came in but it also made me a little more timid you know I was like all right well like I I don't want to piss anyone off because if I piss them off they're just going to make me do more up things right it's an art form to this man navigating through it dude if you're not aware and watching everybody's actions all the time and being on your toes yeah and uh and you know like trying to pay attention to like people's moods as well like because artists are Moody as oh yeah yeah they are dude yeah they are the dude you were best friends with yesterday comes in today no sleep dude what

whatever fight with his lady or some and he's going to knock your lunch off the table GL that happened to me I'm just a young guy and they just throw your sandwich on the ground you're like tight tight nice there goes the lunch and I am not going to say nope just going to sit here and go back to drawing now my desk is clear thank you yeah thanks um guess uh it's just going to be like that today no man you know um it's it's a good time it's a good time I feel like uh it seems like it's a little bit more different nowadays with how people are getting their apprenticeships it seems like totally different yeah yeah I mean I don't really know much about it but it seems like now people are getting paid for their apprenticeships and yeah that's that's crazy to me that's crazy to me as well I mean like hey if it works for you by all means let it work for you that's not how it was for me you know yeah I don't really really have a strong opinion about it I don't really care like if you whatever you guys come up with and that's your transactional thing those of the details to your agreement that's cool yeah exactly like um my my goal was to make sure I didn't have to pay for mine because like I was already like in a scenario where I couldn't afford to pay for it anyways so I was all about the I'll work for free yeah yeah you teach me and I'll work for free um yeah and you did a year though yeah a year 100% I think I did year like I definitely like you get signed off at eight they drag

it out eight months and then you you know yeah this is your sign off but that don't mean like where you're at and don't get too cocky you know I get it I get it oh man dude I was humbled quick um I remember one of the very first tattoos I've done was some dude that walked in and wanted to get a Panther full body and uh I remember the owner being like hey this is my Apprentice if you let him do it will give you a deal on it yeah and uh if I do it it's going to be this much if he does it it'll be our minimum 100 bucks uh and I mean a $100 tattoo that would you know otherwise be 300 for sure you know dude was like yeah run it up dude I'm starting to sweat cuz I I don't want to do this I'm scared oh yeah so yeah you weren't even prepped like you didn't know you were going to do it he just called you out right then and there right then and there dude he was like Hey like you want to be here earn it yeah I like it uh and I I was terrified I was terrified I wasn't telling anyone I was terrified they probably saw it on my a little sweat running you know just and I'm I'm hoping this guy's not noticing this either and I'm trying to play this cool I'm like oh yeah man I got you I could do this I could do this a tattoo that would take me maybe an hour and a half now yeah took me maybe three or four hours to do dude yeah and I'm I'm sweating and like I'm terrified of uh of like butchering in people's skin early on as well dude like uh like I've I've heard about nightmare stories of like

you know turning people's skin to hamburger meat and yeah yeah and just like scarring people and this was a melanated man as well so uh I've heard stories where like you know if you have a lot of melanin in your skin like you could kilo it a lot easier so and you know like I'm just like I don't really know about any of this right now and I'm just getting thrown into it but I wanted it dude I wanted it I was like we're going to do it if we're going to learn we got to do it now uh thankfully the tattoo I mean I I wish I kept in contact with that guy uh so I could see what it looks like today but um I mean i' I've done tons of tattoos on like some of my best friends you know earlier on and oh man some of those were were really rough yeah you know overstepping your boundaries and stuff too trying to get into you shouldn't have been into 100% and uh you know thinking that my myself oh I could do this I could do this and then next thing you know you wipe a stencil and then half of it's gone and you in your pants yeah like oh what trying not to lose it in front of the client too like those are all super strong lessons I've learned from tattooing like keep it cool like oh dude don't trip seriously though and um and I feel like th those situations help with everyday life situ yeah yeah for sure that pressure yeah it it's it's a lot it's a lot it could be a lot and uh in the earlier days it was a lot dude yeah uh there's a couple times where I've tattooed some of my good friends and

right then and there I was like I'm not cut out for this you know I was like I'm I'm my friends up they're going to have these tattoos for the rest of their lives I'm going to have to look at these tattoos for the rest of my life yeah and you know as you get better and better you're just like hey let me let me run that back real quick yeah come back here touch that up but yeah dude there is uh and one one lesson that actually stuck by me that uh my mentor told me um he was like I I just got done tattooing one of my friends uh it was a traditional styled mermaid this was earlier on uh scales are hard as to do uh even now I have difficulty with scales yeah especially contouring them or something yeah choose to do that yeah dude when they twist and stuff for sure dude but I'm I'm not even kidding dude like I'm in tears at this point my buddy already left he loves the tattoo you know he's like no dude like you did a great job I love this tattoo uh don't even trip about it uh but in my mind I'm like dude like I know what it's supposed to look like and I know what I did you know uh so like I'm in tears talking to my mentor I'm like yeah dude I don't think I'm cut out for this like all I feel like I'm doing is is people's skin up like they're going to have to walk around with this for the rest of their lives and my name's attached to it you know like I'm not doing this the right way um and he and he just sits me down and he's like Hey listen you see everyone in this room right

now and he points at everyone in the shop has been in the same shoes you're in right now yeah look at where it got them yeah and he just told me he's like slow yourself down just trust the process let it work for you and as soon as he said that you know like I'm just thinking to myself I was like you know what dude like you're absolutely right like no one's going to be good at doing anything when they first start off you know and like there's going to be some prodigies and like there's going to be some people that are just you know they have that elevated experience where they could just do correctly as it comes that wasn't my experience but you know right then and there yeah it was great advice uh and you know considering that I didn't get

much advice that stuck with me a lot and that stuck with me for the longest period of time as well good yeah can't be too hard on yourself but also got to be super hard on yourself you know finding that balance is a challenge you're going to overstep the boundaries exactly on both both sometimes you get too comfortable and you're like there I am again I up again you know like I should have stayed in my lane and made sure that this I treated this like it was the first tattoo I ever did exactly and um and thankfully that mindset like it transfers over to to so many other aspects of my life you know and I feel like I got to learn so many different just lessons through tattooing that that kind of transfer over to everything else as well um and I I've always had this mindset where like if I'm going to do something I want to be good at what I'm doing yeah give your all give it my all what we should do with everything exactly uh so like you know being bad at Tattooing in the beginning yeah was was just more drive to be like you know what like I need to get good you know and even to this day like it's still a learning process like there's so much to learn dude there's so much personalities change the canvas changes the skin imperfections are you have never seen before pop in after like 10 years I'm like man that's weird like why is that one spot just randomly leaking lot of blood D what the is that seriously i' I've deal dude um have you ever had tattooed someone that didn't really

exfoliate their skin like very bumpy skin uh yeah a lot of desert skin skin desert skin exactly dude super Le leathery um lots of bumps that that was very difficult for me to get a get an idea of um we did a lot of that like in the early 2000 there was a ton of construction here so there was guys outside in the sun all day long they all making a ton of money we were tattooing them all and I swear some of these like never had ever put on lotion before noen their skin is super dark it's super dry but it's also super thin and it'll blow out real easy and man it was it like I think of like a dry lake bed like what I was working with and then there would be pockets of moisture and then dry as and you're like I don't know what's going on in the middle of this and you learn how to work through that though a for sure though you know and um it's very humbling if you care yeah and and that I cared yeah 100% um cuz I I wanted everyone to walk out feeling uh you know happy with what what they just got you know and uh I always looked at tattoos as like an extension of who you are you know so like you get a cool ass panther tattoo you get a cool snake tattoo you know like that's just something that you're into even more you know Memorial styled stuff whatever it is man like I feel like it's all it's all like tells your story exactly it's very healing you're privilege to be able to help them tell their story too exactly and uh you know like personally um like I don't open up to strangers

you know um like I kind of keep my personal stuff to like my circles you know uh but not everyone has those kind of circles so I feel very blessed for people to come to me get something permanent on their skin and then also them telling me their stories yeah you know that's a fun part that's one of my favorite Parts about tattooing just hearing those stories and seeing all different types of walks of life dude I love it I think it's awesome your bedside manner is real good is that something that you learned in uh your apprenticeship uh 100% the hotel dude 100% the hotel you come in you're on it dude like was a pretty much a stranger you know like I we had sold some tattoo needles to but I came in as pretty much a stranger but like I showed up your drawings were done it was ready to go was like boom boom boom boom and we sat down we tattooed we leave shake your hand good I was like all right get it bro like you you bro was good I like that um I like to be prepared yeah that's for sure um I don't like to leave anything to Chances well you know like I I like to make sure that uh if if I'm going to do it I got to do it 100% of the way you know um and I feel like doing color studies making sure the design is ready uh the night before uh these are all things that kind of help me not have anxiety for the day for you know and uh that that's my biggest goal like I don't want to feel like I'm stressing myself because if I'm stressed it's gonna you're going to be able to tell you know

yeah I could have always definitely prepared a little more at times like a very Wing It person though you know like like I drew draw on I draw on a ton of my work over the years was like a lot of it was just I got three layers of markers a light one a m medium one in the dark and I just always felt like it just helped I was really into flow and I felt like I could never get the tracing paper on there and the drawing and then I put it on and then I'm like I got to draw it anyway so it forced me to be under pre like work well under pressure and stuff too which is you know things that you learn in your apprenticeship yeah dude um and you know what like I think that's sick because you get to really really test your artistic abilities doing that

you know uh being able to draw on with Sharpie that is definitely a skill I want to learn how to do uh I very rarely do anything just drawn on uh and if it is it's it's got to be like it's either fillers or let's say it's like someone wants to flail to fit in a certain SP uh spot on their body and I'm just drawing in like the chain part of that uh but I've never drawn on like a full sharped on tattoo that's a skill I definitely want to get into learning how to do you you stick with pretty much like what's your ideal day like two tattoos a day that are like Palm or like little hand you well I the way that I like to tattoo is I definitely like to do smaller style things uh I don't work in large scale uh that's definitely something I'm trying to change oh do you you would like to I would yeah uh I'm actually going to start a couple of backs these next couple of months yeah been doing a lot of prep drawing and like oh yeah pitching essentially to clients literally um and like it's it's super cool I actually got in contact with like a group of friends that I've known since middle school high school and I was like hey um like I'm trying to extend my portfolio I need to get some larger pieces out which one of you guys want to start their back or your front oh and a couple of them were were like me and I was like all right here's the deal you have to come in one a month and and it's got to be something that like I want to do yeah and I'll give you a deal on this tattoo we'll make it

happen but you have to commit to it and they were like say less dude so so now you're gonna start cranking out some big yeah I'm excited to see that that's cool that's fun yeah I I I I had a hard time with big stuff my um first of all getting people to commit to it is a challenge you know and and I just I don't know I just my attention span can't comprehend that dude I I feel the same way uh that that's why I like working in the smaller smaller style things um my my ideal day is doing two tattoos uh none of them take longer than three hours to do okay uh like I I like to work in short bursts uh yeah and I feel like doing it that way I really get to focus um so I'm not like stressing about anything you know like I get to just bust it out do as good of a job as I can do and it's done in one sitting yeah you know immediate gratification too immediate gratification and it's kind of easier to charge like that too you know I I like the in your head you're like all right I'm gonna get x amount for this x amount for this and then you can kind of like almost map out exactly what you're gonna make for the week what literally dude and um I feel like things like that are key yeah you know clients aren't left hanging you know that finished tattoo for yeah and it's easier to give a rough estimate to for something like that than you know having to be like I don't know how much it's G to cost you know how about you just pay me how much I want you know like I don't I don't want to be that guy

no for sure that's a yeah yeah um sounds like you're going to plan out your back pieces real good too like you said you have the clients picked out you have the sessions probably what you're going to attempt to accomplish with in each one of those sections exactly so then you can have kind of like basically like a strategic layout of right to finish on it that's and uh yeah and you know like starting off with some of my friends working on these larger pieces are going to give me a a good idea of how long these pieces are going to take to do um and that's that's the thing because sometimes I'll do small tattoos in my head I'm like oh I'll knock this out in two three hours not an issue getting in there you're like oh I was like oh this has more lines than I remember or the client doesn't sit good or the client doesn't sit good yeah dude uh you know Al or my tummy hurts you know things happen man things happen but I love it like I think it's Super Rad and and I like like you said dude the instant gratification when you get to start something and finish it that's exciting it it's it really is for me too yeah dude and uh and you know like we're content creators as well man so being able to knock something out right then and there that's just one extra thing I get to throw on Instagram or Tik Tok or whatever you know um so it it feels good to do that because I I've always struggled with the social media aspect of it all I'm not inclined you know like some people are really good

with social media me not so very good and like dude I've watched YouTube videos I've tried to like you know what what do I got to do you know dance yeah like and and that kind of goes back to you know showing people who you really are like Instagram is starting to not really care about the tattoos anymore yeah they're more interested about who's doing the tattoos um so that's that's a learning curve for me cuz like you know me and you were talking about this earlier um I just don't find myself as a very interesting person you know uh but that's just because like I am myself yeah we forget that what we are doing is actually interesting to your client or to you know your co-workers and stuff might be over there even if they may not say anything they might be watching your ass and like exactly fascinated by it yeah dude and um and and and it's weird to think because it's like you could look at anyone on the street and you could imagine like like I wonder what that person's life is like you know so I like doing that yeah me too and like I I do it literally every day yeah so like thinking about that it's like well people must be looking at me and thinking the same things yeah you know so like I'm just trying to get into a role where it's like all right let me attach more of myself more my personality into my artwork to try to you know yeah it's a challenge for us all that's damn sure and like you know I love that you came out and did this H you know you look at your

Instagram and it's 100% just a beautiful portfolio but I was trying to dig like for some more things to talk about and I was like damn uh this showing up so but it so it kind of comes across as like almost maybe they're an introvert or whatever but like you know you're you're you are interesting you have a lot of different things that you're into and um it's you know it will be a challenge to figure out how to I struggle with it on my own social media I'm like am I supposed to be self-branding you know everybody says the person with the self brand I'm like and I do the same exact thing am I not fun or like I just don't find myself like wanting to document all my yeah yeah me too so it's it's an exercise trying to find that for sure and honestly dude like I I love what you're doing I think this is Super Rad uh just being able to talk to other artists you know is it's exciting it is exciting we we get these transactions together we just maybe run into each other at art shows or or just worked with somebody for a small amount of time and you don't sometimes always get to like really get to know people and and this is such a unique experience to like you know find out that we all have so much in common and if we weren't sitting around not the we're doing it but a lot of people just sit around and judge each other you it's too easy to do that these days we're caught up in our own algorithm just looking at the dumbb that they they post and you're like it's dumb you know like

whatever you're like yeah bro like you think I want to be doing that literally though yeah and uh and and some people are so good at it too man and they are Supernatural Supernatural too literally and that's great you know or that might be our perception they're over there probably doing the same thing they're probably over there stressing at night trying to figure out how the do I do this and they put it up you know maybe they film 50 things and pick one thing that works 100% that's just like what we were talking about ear it's just you're not going to be the best at anything you do right out of the gate well most people won't but right you know so just give it a shot keep moving try don't be afraid to thr out there yeah put yourself out there everybody in their or whatever who cares what people think you can always delete it yeah exactly who cares who cares not me no man I think it's great um yeah like you said though dude it's a learning curve you know and uh and it's a really good point you know we we look at everything from such an outside perspective uh so when we are like looking at other people's posts and they're like I'm thinking to myself damn they're so good at doing this yeah uh like why can't I be doing this just like them and then you know like who knows what they're thinking you know yeah what they're going through yeah it's super Interesting Man like I love it I love tattooing like I said dude I don't think I'll ever do anything else it's too great dude it's

just too great you know um I come and go as I please uh no one's no one's breathing down the back of my neck about anything uh I am mostly appointment only uh like I'll take Watkins if there's Watkins you know uh but that's it's not that's pretty rare that it's pretty rare most of the people in your you're you're a Heritage tattoo right now yeah shout out Heritage tattoo yeah Aaron what up Aaron yeah we got to get him on here too but oh dude he's amazing the Shop's cool yeah yeah where you're at it's real cool uh you know it's the only shop I've seen styled the way it is so got the secret wall thing there a drawing room back there there one day dude please come by anytime you want man I would love to show you the shop it's it's super rat in

there you'll go into the bathroom it blows your mind aon's like aon's one of those people that you you see from my perspective when I see what he posts on Instagram type stuff you're like damn the everything he does is like executes perfectly like his garden is gorgeous his Co or what you know or whatever he's got all this everything is like so he's beautiful C Shop's cool so if you're out there and you're ever feeling insecure about it you're doing a great job n dude seriously uh it it's you know but being around that you're like dude I want that too you know so like it it drives you and Aaron is incredible Artist as well you know like same thing uh getting to see him work yeah it's mind-blowing you know and uh I feel the same way about chance as well shout out chance Collective Tattoo Las Vegas Nevada yeah absolute Legend tat wizard um we'll get him on here real soon dude yeah he he honestly a gentleman a scar just the coolest dude ever uh if it wasn't like yoga teacher of tattooing I don't know just the vibe he's like the guru like the guru his energy is so like oh man so pleasant he is he's he's an extremely Pleasant man and he's so humble and he's so loving which is it's rare to find people like that man especially in what we do uh like he's willing to share his knowledge he's not he's not vindictive about anything he's just a a real gentleman and uh and he's a family man too yeah which I respect you know those kind of things like what do you uh you know you've only

you've been Tau to for about five years I think you're extremely successful and very very good at what you're doing I'm excited to see you grow and get into other things do you kind of have a vision maybe of like what you'd like to see for your career like absolutely man all I know is I want to get better at drawing for sure I want to get artistically better at doing anything uh not just tattooing but painting um and I've never really done anything else like uh it's always just been painting and tattooing you know uh I want to get better at doing more like charcoal stuff more Fine Art styled stuff as well uh but my main focus right now is to just kind of lock in and become great at just executing drawings to skin being surrounded by such talented people man like and and Sh shout out everyone at Heritage because they help out so much when it comes down to like drawing things uh like last week dude I was stressing I had my client in the lobby and like I said dude like if I tell you to be at your appointment at 3:00 and you're there at 3 o' and I'm not ready that that puts bums you out it bums me out it really does it puts a bit of pressure on me um and I think I think they noticed that and uh I think they noticed that I was stressing and they were like yo like let me help you out real quick you know oh good and um so I I give him my iPad because I am an iPad yeah that's I was wondering too yeah I draw on the iPad it's fantastic tool dude if if it works it works you know like

I started off drawing on paper yeah iPad works just as well um but I handed my iPad over to Jesse he started uh helping helping me doodle through it yeah dud and and it helped tremendously you know and having people around me that are willing to like help that way to ensure that the tattoo that I'm about to do is a good tattoo and not just some that I threw together it it it's amazing because not a lot of people are willing to help like that man yeah and you're not going to get that from a private Studio or something you know not at all yeah the camaraderie and and just bullshitting back and forth and stuff all helps you and just soaking in all that information you're around like I don't know how many guys are there six to eight guys uh there's nine nine yeah there's nine people tattooing out of Heritage all different styles too doing their thing manaz able to like soak in a little bit oh yeah and uh and I love it dude like everyone's everyone's doing their thing it's so nice to be in a shop that's just filled yeah and everyone's just bullshitting talking and it's an open floor yeah yeah so it's extremely fun you know and we're all just kind of those are the benefits of open space format for sure I love it yeah dude and you know like there's some conversations happening you know like tattoo talk or uh what is it shop talk is it can get pretty crazy you know conspiracies and and uh I'm into that kind of stuff you know like I'm not saying I believe everything but I'm not

yeah you know I'm not saying it's not true yeah but it it might not be I don't know so you're you're into some other too you were telling me back to your competitive spirit and your drive you're a gamer so like I don't know lot about gaming but you were telling me you're into fortnite and that's that's like your thing and you're competitively playing yeah dude you tell me a little bit about that that's absolutely man um I I I played so for the longest time I was playing Apex Legends okay um that was the first game that I started getting into competitively uh I would play ranked get into it man um it's a good time you know Community all I mean nowadays Everybody Plays it from all over the world they play this one game right yeah and then so they essentially when you say competitive you're like entering into competitions or I'm not entering into competitions but through the game there's a ranked system okay and you can climb that rank system okay so we yeah you're you're trying to Elevate exactly um well for for an example uh when I was playing Apex Legends the ranking system goes from bronze all the way up to a rank called uh apex predator okay right uh if you're an apex predator you're the top 750 players in the world okay uh the rank right below that is called Masters okay um and that's the rank that I was able to achieve uh in the game which is honestly I'm not really sure how you would put it like in my mind it would be like being a division one player in in the NBA okay

you know so like you're not pro leagues but but you're putting it putting it down and uh yeah dude like I've always loved gaming um it's always something that I've been super interested in um and I just recently switched from Apex Legends to playing fortnite and uh I started making Tik Tok content okay yeah of gaming yeah dude so is that kind of like your intro to helping bring more of your personality into it so yeah um exactly social media and then we talked about kind of maybe figuring out how to merge them both exactly and uh and you know like dude I I grew up playing Super mar Donkey Kong yeah that's like the extent of my yeah we got that in the house dude I love it I downloaded an emulator on my phone that has all of the Super Nintendo games on it oh okay it's fantastic dude uh so I play everything like I don't just stick to the firstperson shooters or whatever you want to Call of Duties whatever um I'll play anything as long as it's a good game yeah dude so I'm I'm trying to bring like you know kind of merge the two like if anyone ever wants to get like some video game tattoos 8bit styled that's what I was wondering if you were willing to like bring that into your actual tattooing love that okay good yeah you know great um it would be it would be so much fun and and like it's a great way to Market yourself too I mean you're passionate about it so that's obviously great and means that you'll do a good job at it you know creating your content or figuring out and

you know fumble through it at first and then get a little better and then you start introducing that following to your tattooing and and that's exactly what I'm trying to do yeah like we need to get away from like putting all our eggs in one basket the Instagram thing is not it's not good for us no it isn't dude and uh and and that was another thing like I I don't want people to just think of me as like just this one individual you know and even then it's hard to have an idea of who I am when like you said dude like you you go on my profile you don't see anything personal on it it's all just it's all just tattoos yeah everything is just tattoos so um and I and I've noticed you know like PE people are interested dude like people want to know

your backstory they want to know who you are that's why I'm enjoying this project to learn you know about all of other tattooers in town and their stories and stuff and their other interests are great exactly cuz it's it's not it's never just one thing for sure the artists are bing bing bing we're bouncing all over the place we're trying to figure out how we can do 20 different things at once and for sure dude yeah dude and and the cool thing about Tik Tok is is dude like their editing system is fantastic yeah I learned how to like three years ago though you know but I want to try to get back in into it a little playing with it figuring out how um you could split videos on the on the as you're editing and you could delete Clips like right then and there they make it so easy uh I'm still learning it as well so uh but last night I feel like I kind of got that light bulb above my head and I was like oh you know what like I'm starting to understand how to work this thing oh cool yeah yeah that's fun it is you can screen record obviously when you're playing and then add throw that in there too and like even if you're not comfortable talking to the camera you can do simple things like just here's here's my face you know exactly see that's what I need to get better at and then you can talk over it too so then you're by yourself and it's quiet and you can just kind of like try to practice at that for sure dude um but definitely I I I I have such a hard time with just being able to

like put my face onto things yeah this might be the first thing yeah yeah if it works it works dude like I'm perfectly fine with that um I I I just need to get better at doing it in the day-to-day things you know and uh and one of my goals is actually to start streaming okay um so like I want to start playing video games online uh I've done it before yeah that would be like through twitch or something like that I'm not familiar with that platform but I understand um yeah dude it's Super Rad you know everyone's gaming on it uh and the way the platform is set up like if there's a specific game you want to watch you just click on that game and then it shows you everyone that's playing it it makes sense man there's a ton of people uh playing it

they're obviously interested in learning how other people do it so that's really cool and you know you can twitch your live stream your tattoos too right yeah yeah I know there's tattooers doing that never really looked into it but and that was something that I was interested in doing as well like and I don't really know how well you would be able to like engage in your your chat yeah while you're tattooing because you know like yeah you got focusing you you got to focus on your client for sure but you know if you just want to set it up have people watch you do it you know like by all means I think that's super rat it's not like the camera's going to be right in it for sure and they're unassuming cameras like these cameras live stream exactly dude so um you just have it on a little tripod just chilling boom yeah just shows like hey what's up everyone we're out here doing this thing and that's all it is to it dude and then you just yeah you just just tattoo and then you add that to your your content through twitch right yeah anything that just helps kind of get your name out you know um do you have your own website I don't yeah dude I lag on that so hard I'm pushing people on that just more diversity more getting your search engine optimization stuff set up through your um and then that you can add all your links to your different socials and stuff that'll help like when people are searching Las Vegas tattoo or traditional Las Vegas tattoo or like and you have that those

keywords in your site and these days the platforms are super easy to use so you can set up Shopify for 35 bucks a month or whatever it is now and um buil out your own store and I don't know how to do I'm not a very technical driven person so neither am I yeah so you can jump through there and it's like it's real easy userfriendly but you could add like your prints available and your stream you know it just kind of gives like a more of a hub of like all the you're into yeah you could just add your photography side gig whatever and just type it all in and just update it like once a week which is cool you know like I just like I don't even know how to get into doing that like yeah just jump over how you make a website it's pretty easy yeah it's free platform like I dude I did it I did it all myself we just rebuilt my shops website through the platforms hell yeah our Mavericks website like all the all our is through there you said through Shopify yeah just jump on there or like um uh where the in uh I'm brain farting the other ones you know but uh that's the only one I with and it's easy so yeah it's like a old school like Myspace kind of thing with no code you just drag your logo and then drag youru that's something I would need 100% I think tattooers should definitely be doing that right now and building their own store that way you know uh one of my guys he's fantastic at it dos Frank he's like got his website up he's constantly putting new prints on there and he'll get off

get up in the morning see if anything's sold packages prints ship them out so so sick there's a a lot to do though you know you know so you got to find your balance but for sure especially when you're out like selling physical things you know like that's that's time that you're taking Tak out of your day to go to the uh yeah post office all that on the way yeah you know you could at least build the website and then you have the content on there exact you don't have to sell and yeah and even then like you said dude like you throw your Instagram your YouTube your Twitch like you could throw anything on that website and it just it's a portal yeah uh I'll push you to do that no I'll definitely have to get on to it it's not super hard so yeah Shopify I've seen a couple of couple of things dude did you see on on Instagram that when you start paying for ads they started charging a fee Apple started charging the fee to run ads on Instagram I just kind of recently saw that have you ever done that have you played with do you like boost yourself through okay um you do just the Boost thing I just boost it I don't honestly I'm like I said dude like I'm not very uh social media Savvy um but yeah dude like I'll I'll boost the post see what happens with it I've see tat stuff pop up every once in a while especially if they're traveling through just like shoot out sponsored ads you know um I I don't really try to I just let the app do its thing man like I I don't really try to specify

anything I just do whatever it recommends okay and then um and I've noticed that most of my stuff gets shown to people in California which I don't really know if that's benefiting me much in regards of getting appointments but there's a ton of people traveling through but those are people traveling through like I say 60% of the people coming through town uh or from California supposedly every single weekend but then you're not like on in that last minute kind of situation where you can just take these walk-ins so I would probably definitely when you boost like go in and you can specifically say like Las Vegas Valley yeah yeah so with that like just kind of and you know just ask ask how you do it get a little better at it but it's a challenge yeah uh uh but they never used to do that Apple never used to take a fee I was going to do a $30 boost and and they wanted $13 on top on top and I was like dude that's like almost half of the Boost yeah yeah I don't know how that works that's beef between the app they're like hey you guys are making more money than us that's not fair yeah we're going to take that from you yeah uh when I saw that though it completely changed I was like well I'm not going to boost it anymore you know because it's like why would I give you almost half of the ad money yeah I'm feeling a lot of Grassroots going back to it though like you you making flyers is super cheap you can make like 500 flyers for like 40 bucks or some on vist uh this past week

Aaron made uh I'm not I'm not too into like graffiti or anything um but you know how like uh when like you make a poster and you oh yeah we paste it yeah yeah funny we're doing that for the podcast that's so sick dude I was like yo like next time you do that like I want to come through I want to learn how to do that yeah I'm not very good at Kinko man just roll into Kinkos and you can nowadays you so you figure out their largest piece of paper that they can print on the cheap printers out front and then you do in your iPad you build up your graphic black and white graphic real bold and then just yeah then you just send the file directly to Kinkos they give you a code to type in when you get to the printer you just type in the code and it pops out like 500 of your posters and you just roll out with them it's pretty easy that's sick and then these days you you don't even have to put together your own wheat paste there's companies that make wheat paste for you know so you just ready to go roll it up dude and like we used to do grimy and like we used to put crushed up glass in there that way like when you went to go peel it off like it would oh shatter smart would cut your hands yeah so you Wen you wouldn't want to take that poster down but that's actually sick that's weird yeah but dude like I'm in stuff like that you know like yeah but anyway that Grassroots like I was at the coffee shop this morning and I found myself like still putting up my business cards on the pen board

know at the breakfast place all that local really works and 100 if they're seeing you on social media and then they see it there they need to see you like I don't know with the psychology breakdown I forgot it was like see it seven times before it clicks and then hopefully by like the 13th time they actually reach out to you right yeah yeah cuz it it builds that like familiarity right y y and trust and like oh if I saw it that many times it must be worth a exactly like they might you know and I feel like there's just do so many scammers now yeah uh like every day dude I'm seeing someone hey this isn't my profile like make sure you're not sending money to these people so like you know being able to show who you are actually it helps man it helps gives people the idea of like do the weat paste thing some posters some cards you know like there's you know it's a million things you can do but for sure just like anything the more competitive you get at the more interested you get in it the more you learn how to execute it all and it's so some dude will see it and some chick will come get a rad tattoo from you and that's the best yeah all I want to do is rad tattoos yeah perfect but uh I don't know you got what else you got going on you got like you're at Heritage now that's you you're gonna kind of focus on doing some bigger work and yeah dude uh just chilling do you travel much do you do like guest guest spots or anything like that not many guest spots no um I've never even done

a convention yet really you want to do something like that 100% uh but I just you know like never had the opportunity working at Heritage now I just started there at the beginning of this year so um I've noticed that they do a lot of conventions so I definitely plan on tagging along with them trying to get an idea even if you just go Noto just kind of learn yeah you just like feel out the environment that they're real different these days there's but it's still great for networking you know if you go there with that intent too and you're not tattooing all weekend it'll be easier for you to walk around introduce yourself to all the tattooers that you see or know or inspire you and and just say what's up drop your car to your flyer you know put it out there here some stickers can I watch you tattoo for a minute if you're mind like um I'm going to hover i h can I hover over your shoulder let me see can so those are you know it makes it actually enjoy kind it's a different experience like I've definitely gone to multiple tattoo conventions without even yeah yeah yeah dude it's great I just try to go there with intent you know if you're not going to do anything don't be shy walk up to dude and just say what's up like 99% these days like everybody that you talk to they're nice now like tattooers are nicer now I love it like I just did that Austin Invitational in August oh that's awesome it's great dude we we go out there and uh we're gonna do it again this year and I was like I

was actually kind of proud of myself like I was that went there with intent and I walked up to every tat I could take the time to talk to and just say hi and introduce myself and everybody was incredibly receptive it was like I love that like we back in the day people were grumpy and like get out of my space bro who the are you all right man like talk to the next guy exactly like all right man I I thought we were all in a good mood today yeah so so I definitely I think you should do it you know and plus then you get to like uh since you're not working the whole time you could put in like four or five hours of just walking around talking to people and then go eat some restaurants travel dud I love traveling I love it so much um can't go wrong dude seeing experiencing cures I eat that up dude I love it but yeah dude I definitely want to get intoing conventions uh I would love to do more guest spots that would be Super Rad um I've been to New York uh you know but that's kind of further away uh I would love to do things that are a bit closer to home because you know traveling with all your equipment can be a little stressful dude yeah yeah yeah you know when machines cost as much as they cost nowaday like yeah it's it's tough dude like I do not want to lose that thing you know sure yeah yeah you keep all that in your bag yeah I I don't leave it out of my sight dude even uh even when I'm you know in town if if I don't stop by my house before I go somewhere I'll walk into

places with my backpack on dude yeah don't ever leave that in your car I can't I get way too scared bro yeah that brings me back to when everybody would used to leave their CDs in their car you leave your whole entire collection of music it's like gone 5 600 bucks and it's gude that needs to be in your backp I don't trust anybody anywhere 100% dude 100% yeah keep your close Yeah well yeah that's cool man you yeah get out there do some conventions and um guest spots are I honestly have never done a guest spot oh no kidding I did a ton of conventions but I always like I early on kind of like had my shop and had a ton of business here love I never really I didn't really see the yeah like going and doing guest spots so like I could sit here and

work or I could sit there and do nothing but I just didn't see the value in it at that time now I see it more as like building the relationships not so much about being busy dude soaking up the vibe of another shop you know and you'll learn from that so now I'm kind of like all right now I have the ability to do that I should do that 100% yeah and I'm so not so much worried about tattooing at conventions other than just more or less just going to them to network and just meet meet people you know it's fun and it's always nice to meet new people too man yeah our goal is to get this out at conventions like so oh setup dude trying trying to get some podcast I got a project that I'm working on I got oh dude that's G to be so sick be fun yeah so

it'll be cool for that way we can talk to a bunch of different people at one SP I think it'll be really fun yeah dude that' be so rad yeah I got a a cool idea I think I think that I'm going to roll it out and I'm like dud I mean seeing how everything is right now I'm pretty sure it's going to be sick as we're going to keep going with it but man I think that's about it dude I really appreciate you taking your time D you're the man absolutely you're an extremely talented dude and I I am going to get more tattoos by you so thank you so much dude seriously it was an absolute pleasure coming in today if you want to tell them like where to find you you know your Instagram is what exactly is your Instagram yeah it's uh it's going to be JCB tattoos

that's it yeah shout out Heritage tattoo uh I'm Loc there in Las Vegas Nevada thank you so much for having me today dude this was Super Rad this was my first time doing anything like this as well so I'm hell new too so if you see me struggling through the beginning and all the I'm like ah it I'll figure it out I love it dude it was super R yeah just keep going thank you so much all right guys thank you peace