Maverick ZINE — Tattoo Culture, Art & Artist Stories

Who were you drawing back there like when you first started getting into tattooing? I think just all the same shit that I'm doing now, but just shitty versions of it, you know what I mean? Skulls and snakes and flowers and all that stuff started doing weird skulls and funky looking stuff. And I just kind of do the same version of that now, but better. Today on the podcast Brett Rose Pilar, Las Vegas born and raised tattooer, muralist and co-owner of One Block Las Vegas. being inspired by tattoo artwork, has gone back pretty far for me. just looking in magazines, Having the right people behind you and also having, the right crew of friends and family around you to to support you and keep you grounded is really important. And all those guys are that.

Yeah, we talk about what actually makes a tattoo shop work, why most shop owners fail before they even get started, and how Brett built one block by focusing on the right people, the right culture, and a shop that actually feels good to be in. I'm Austin Spencer, and this is support your local tattooer. dude. Thanks so much for coming by. Thanks for having me. We got Bret Rose Tyler in the house. Welcome to support your local tattooer BPP beer, which we need, like a little soundboard. Yeah, maybe we should have some some some awesome bits.

So what's up, man? How's things dude? Everything's really good, man. Everything's been great. Great. Yeah. You've had, like, some, some big changes. You were like, well, a couple of years, and now.

Right, you open Yeah, yeah. Huge changes. I opened up one block with DJ Tab here in Las Vegas. Just been, you know, nurturing that for the past two and a half years. We've been open now, and, like, it's going really, really well. Time flies. Dude. time fucking flies, Yeah!

Whoo! Some interesting changes going from a tattooer to shop owner. I wouldn't say too many challenges or. You know what I mean. DJ and his wife make it really easy to like, you know, maneuver through owning the thing. And, you know, she's super organized, so she keeps us, you know, on the level. And. Yeah, it just works really well.

I couldn't say that we've had many challenges yet. It's like everything's just kind of manifesting exactly the way I thought it would. Honestly. Yeah. Yeah, it's been great. Yeah. No complaints at all. Honestly?

good, because having having the right people behind you is everything, dude. Yeah. Having the right people behind you and also having, like, the right crew of friends and family around you to to support you and keep you grounded is really important. And all those guys are that. Yeah. like you guys really have, like, a very good, healthy culture that Yeah. Yeah. And extremely motivating.

I'm. I'm assuming. extremely motivated. Yeah. I mean, I have the best tattooers in the world tattooing right next to me. So, Yeah, it's a it's a big deal to me. Yeah. For sure.

I don't, you know, take it as I don't take it very lightly. It's like very, very important to me. Yeah. No, not not a bit. So you've been in Vegas for a while, right? Yeah. Well, I was born and raised here. Born and raised.

Damn. Oh, then I kind of want to reverse back to, like, when the, like, shit. When were someone, like, the first, like, inspirational. Like like tattoo things that stood out to you first inspirational tattoo things. you even just seeing I mean being being inspired by tattoo artwork, has gone back pretty far for me. I mean, just looking in magazines, you know what I mean? Yeah. Right out of high school was when I, when I found tattooing and started doing that.

So, you know, back then, you kind of had to work to find that contact. You know, you couldn't just jump on social media and see all the best tattoo work and artwork out there. So you kind of had to know, you know, where, what mediums to find, you know, the cool stuff and like the really good tattoos and, you know, that's that's that's what I did. I searched pretty deep to find like, what I liked. And once I started really getting inspired by certain people's work, I think it kind of jumped me into enjoying tattoo art more and and kind of more focusing on that. Yeah. Yeah. Were you like me?

Did you kind of emerge from, like, just watching graffiti and then seeing graffiti guys get into tattooing? I think that was probably a little bit later for me. I started seeing some of the guys that I was watching doing graffiti, kind of come into tattooing, and by that point I was already tattooing too. So I'm feeling like I was part of that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you're a little bit older than me. Do you ever go down to, like, Tower Records and, like, dig through, like, all the graffiti magazines and and, tattoo magazines at the time?

The big one on Sahara Tower Records. Yeah. Tower records, big B's, Odyssey Records. I was, I was frequenting all those places. Yeah, tower records had a good, good selection of magazines, so I was always in there stealing them, for sure. My dad was into Harleys, too, so we just had, like, a lot of tattoo like culture Yeah. Yeah, that was some some of the first magazines you could see tattoos in were, you know what I mean, like the book and Easy Rider or whatever it was. Yeah.

thing. Do you remember, like, what was it I still have a lot of those. I still have some of those old, old magazines. Some of the first like tattoo content I had, I still got Who were you drawing back there like when you first started getting into tattooing? I think just all the same shit that I'm doing now, but just shitty versions of it, you know what I mean? Skulls and snakes and flowers and all that stuff I've always kind of been into. Like, I started out tattooing what, the same shit I'm doing now. Yeah.

You didn't go through, like, I like tribal phases and stuff I didn't have like, a huge, like a many year gap of trying to, like, find myself. I kind of right when I jumped in, I started doing weird skulls and, and and funky looking stuff. And I just kind of do the same version of that now, but better. polished. Yeah, yeah, Dang. So all. Who are you like first? How'd your apprenticeship go or how did you get into tattooing?

I kind of fell into tattooing just looking for an art form that I could, you know, take and be career driven by. Yeah. I was, I think, in high school, probably looking more to do, like a graphic design gigs. And I think I got a little bit of experience, like watching other people that were already established in that, and they weren't really doing, like their own personal creative projects there, or working for a company or a thing or not necessarily doing their own personal work. And that, I think, pushed me more into tattooing where I seen, like creating from your own personal, you know what I mean? Bank was is way more important and unique than most other art careers out there. Yeah, We get spoiled. I mean, most of us, as long Yeah.

As long as you're making cool stuff continue to try to push and you're consistent. Yeah, you're going to be doing that for a long time. Probably. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Tattooing you saw you saw stability in tattooing even back then I seen like strong stability in tattooing. Even though we weren't making the type of money that we are now, it's still worked. And I was out at the shop every day and I was motivated.

And, you know, I convince all my friends family to get tattoo by me and anybody who was willing to sit down, I'll tattoo them, you know. So I think that kind of persistence does go a long way. to showing If you hold on to it, you should fucking show up. Just show up. You don't have to be the best but you fucking show up every day Something's going to happen. Something good is going to happen quote he said the other day He was like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing but I'm going to show up but I'm there. Figure it out. Well, I fucking still there, dude.

And you just and you progress better and better every single day As long as you're putting that time and energy and that love into it Correct. you're seeing it dude You're seeing I mean, I'm seeing it for me Thank you. It's it's fucking fantastic, Thank you. I was like diving deep on your Instagram and your progression and your style, your color palettes unique. Thank you. you have this unique, in a world where light of neo trad female faces, you have your own unique kind of this, like Gypsy, you're kind of going. It's like, almost like Gypsy makes. I mean, yeah, it's just it's it's hard to stand out nowadays because a lot of what you see is copy and paste and filtered through the same things over and over again So to have any type of uniqueness in your work at all is really special Yeah.

You and I see in your tattooing I see the way you kind of like posterize your like flat image like the shapes of your color and everything Yeah. do it in your murals too So like yeah, I try to keep things pretty simple and easy to understand easy to read Well, for longevity two for tattooing I mean, it's not like a bunch of heavy blends that could be potentially like torn up or Yeah, yeah, yeah. I try to keep it pretty simple Yeah, yeah. Easy to understand. Easy for me to execute to. Yeah. Yeah. So you kind of.

You're like, all map it out to where it's almost like, color by number, Yeah. You know, it's like. Yeah. Just so simple and bold. And it looks like it's built to last, Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I push like more detail and, you know, more color blends in certain pieces that I feel like needs it. Yeah. You know what I mean.

But for the most part I try to keep it as simple as possible. For all those reasons that you just said. Yeah, it looks great, dude. I'm right. I've really enjoyed it. And like, I'm a huge fan of, skulls and anybody that's illustrating skulls constantly, you know. Thank you. Yeah.

like, you're real like, your reapers are some of the fucking hardest reapers out there, thanks to OG. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. real cool, man. Pride. You know, pride myself on good Reaper.

You know, that's, He's inspired me. I want to sit down and do some reapers or I need to get a reaper from you that would, you know, yeah. So everything like you been keeping keep it inspired. You guys do quite a bit like convention wise. You guys I would say, you know, when you say we, as the shop, we just did a convention all together. Everybody showed up in Iowa two weeks ago, and that was really good. I had a great time doing that. That was the first time we've done, like, a whole shop trip where we all.

Yeah, where we all showed up. But, I'm only doing maybe a couple conventions a year. Yeah, yeah. Right now I'm not really, you know, I mean, I'm not really out there that much of, you know, I like being home with the fam and the dogs and, you know, stuffing the plants and make sure everything's good. And yeah, that's really peaceful for me. So You kids are older. You've toured, I yeah, I have two daughters, 117 and one seven. Oh okay.

Yeah. Yeah. It's about a ten year gap there. Yeah. That's awesome. I Enjoy being a dad. I love it at the best. Yeah.

At ten years old I started over and I was like let's have another one. You know let's do this again. I had my first one when I was 24. So you know, I was, I was really trying to, you know, create some kind of stability in my life. So I was really focused on, you know, career and doing all those things when she was young. So I feel like I did like, you know, miss some things. And in with my new daughter, I'm trying to, like, get that back and really, you know, like, you know, appreciate these these young years, you know, while she's little because I see my oldest daughter get old and that's it's hard. it's it's awesome to see her, you know, grow and and be her own person.

But at the same time, I miss, you know, her being a little nugget too. Yeah. It's the best time ever. Minor, just turned five and seven, Yeah, it's the best. So this you come home the young daddy. Daddy said oh, it's the best, best fucking feeling ever. I want to record it when you're just. When you see me and you come running to me every day, I'm like, fortunate enough because because of our flexibility in what we do, I'm able to pick them up every day.

Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah, it's it's important. It's really important. You feel like you're finding a good, like, work life balance. Yeah. Balance is super important to me. So.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like, You know what I mean? It gets wonky here and there, and, you see, you have to prioritize certain things, you know, over family sometimes, but that's just part of living, you know? So you make up for it when you're when you're in your downtime. Right. What's your work week like you do four days a I'm usually five days a week in the shop, Tuesday through Saturday, noon to six or something like that. Yeah. not terrible.

You do a lot of your drawing and everything there. Do you I do most of my drawing at home. Yeah, yeah, Okay. yeah. Usually a couple days before the night before I'm like in bed watching Netflix and drawing for hours. Yeah. I mean, I used to be in my office just at the, the drawing table for hours and hours, hunched over on my chair, you know, yeah. but now it's like with the iPad, kind of just take it wherever through the house and, you know, work on things as you move around, do stuff.

It's it's pretty incredible. Yeah. lot of your illustration just on iPad For the most part, yeah. I do a lot of just like sketching and just roughing simple stuff out of my head on paper and, you know, little sketchbooks and things. And sometimes I'll take that stuff and take picture of it with the iPad and then, you know, I'll run that. It's hard But but mainly it's sketching on the iPad. And that's so easy fluid for me. I the second I touched it, I don't know, I really.

It took me some time to get used to like the plastic on glass feel. Yeah, because it doesn't have that gritty pencil to paper where you can really feel it. You know, Well you know, I, I struggle so much with, I work with like tracing paper and light tables and color and colored pencils forever. And I was, oh, I just draw, like, real hard. And I'm just going through a pencil like, every, you know, 30 minutes and you're drawing. And so I don't know why. It's just like I found this ability just to, like, be loose and like, not. It's almost like I could fucking relax with it or something.

Yeah, well, I mean, and you have every application, every tool out there to be successful. You just have to find the shit that works for you, too. Yeah, Yeah. So that's like, I don't know, I mean, I fucking like, like I don't want to jump all over the place, but that kind of leads me into like, your murals and stuff too. Was like, do you do a lot of all of that through the iPad too? And yeah, the mural stuff is now all iPad driven. Yeah, yeah. That's cool.

Yeah. and stuff. So I tend to use a projector if I can. A lot of spaces won't allow you to if you're, tight. Yeah, if you're a tight space or there's too much light or you can't back up far enough to get a big wall or, you know, whatever it might be. But if I can. Yes, I'm using that projector to get it on there. do it.

And for the listeners, like it. If you don't know, you got to get in and check out Brett's, murals. Like you, I don't even know how many times during, like, just going out in town, I run across your murals here in Las Vegas. It's like crazy, Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's like everywhere. I got a lot of them out there. Yeah. eat, like, Greek food the other day, and I look up and I was like, okay, America.

Nice. Good. Good spot. Really good spot. Yeah, I they have a ton of locations. I probably done 7 or 8 zoos for them now. Yeah, Centennial one. yeah, yeah, All right.

Dude. Great guys. The guys who own that place or they're awesome dude. Shout out to them. And that's been like, a like a big I don't want to call it a side hustle, but it's, it seems like it's almost like half of your workweek, Yeah, I mean, I think we could probably call it a side hustle. Hustle. Yeah. But, you know, it's, it's it's pretty pretty lucrative for me.

So it's. I call it a side hustle. Seems to kind of downplay it a little bit. It's definitely something I do less than tattooing about the shop every day. But, yeah, the mural stuff stays pretty consistent Yeah. So I've always got a job I'm working on somewhere doing some Yeah, I love it. oh yeah. And you're fucking good at it Thank you.

I really really enjoy seeing your work You scale things so well and back to, like, just your style like crosses over into tattooing and back and forth on the murals But just the color palettes and everything are so strong dude. And I feel like. Thank you. I feel like I learned a while back that, I needed some some consistency between my tattoo work and like, the mural work that I was starting to do because a lot of people were starting to like, you know, connect the two. Yeah. So I realized that, all right, I have to make my stuff really noticeably. Me. Yeah.

So, you know, you might see a mural out there of a giant hawk or something, and it might look just like a tattoo that I might have made for somebody. So, you know, I feel like that's a really valuable thing to. You know what I mean? To be noticed like that, has that been a challenge to, like, always get clients on board with that same style or not necessarily. I think most people that are hiring me already know the type of work I do and are familiar with what I'm going to provide them already. So yeah, I just do that, and I most of the time I get the best response from like doing what I think is best or doing what I think is, you know what I mean, the right way. Or what if I if I'm really into something, I feel like that's when I'm going to get the best response from my client or whoever's hiring me for that job.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I mean literally seeing your stuff like in from alleys downtown to Allegiant Stadium, like, Atomic Golf, like doing massive murals and in highly trafficked, like, really cool places. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, you can find my work anywhere from, you know, the Raider Stadium to down in the tunnels underneath the stadium. So, I'm willing to do the thing. did you have, like, a long history of, say, you know, the illegal graffiti I'm always been really, I've always. I've always been really intrigued by graffiti and involved in it in, in a way.

But it's never been my, my focus, you know what I mean? It's just something that I enjoy. I, I like watching the scene. I like knowing the, the the guys and you know what I mean? It's just something that I like. So I keep in tap, you know? So I partake here and there, but I'm so busy with life and work that, you know, that's like something I do for fun here and there. Yeah, loose a little everyone.

So yeah, that's fun to get out there. Explore, you know what I mean? Get around and, you know, just get out in the streets with your friends and, yeah, you know, make some art somewhere. It's fun. Yeah. Very liberating. You know, doing something not for you. You know what I mean?

For monetary gain or anything. Just just have fun. Sculptures and paint on the walls. Feels good. Yeah, I don't know, I was just downtown recently. I saw some, God, what am I brain farting the fucking the the rapper, the mask, the The MF doom. Doom. Yeah, yeah.

Just like, as soon as it came out of my mouth, I'm like, yeah. It was like, right now. And there are those. MF doom yeah, I did last right before Christmas last year and got a great response from it. Just like I said, like one of those things you do for no monetary gain. No, you're not doing it for anybody specifically, just for myself, you know what I mean? We had an older one there that got, the yeah, it just got tagged over by other graffiti artists. So, you know, I went and did a brand new one because it was one of those pieces that just was like, loved by the community over there, you know, even though it was just a quick throw up, you know, kind of tribute to my man after he passed away that year.

Yeah. And, you know, when I redid is probably one of the best responses I got from a mural painting ever, like on, on social media, which was unexpected. You know, I was not expecting that. I mean, it's like, obviously another like, reflection of your style is just so bold and clean and just, I don't know, I love it because it's just very everything you do is very legible, Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That that one. I feel like that one struck because it looked really classic like I kind of took a few different album covers and ran right, right in between all of those and created something new So, you know, with seeing that mural, you might think like, oh, that's something I seen before, but yeah, it was my creation. Yeah, yeah.

And then know I was digging to you. I didn't realize you did. The giant rocket ship on the side of the area. 15. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like 90% of the big murals that are on the outer facade and, like, inner facade of the new area, 15.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where the universal horror is, it's totally open now. Yeah, yeah. I think there's a few businesses that haven't quite fully opened all the way, but universal horrors open. There's another thing over there called the Ark, which is like a 3D immersive experience ride, kind of like a universal thing, too. And then they got some like little restaurants and they're going to open a selfie museum right there and some other cool stuff. Hey, let me ask you this. Have you noticed that the better your tools are, the smoother everything feels in the shop here?

Maverick Supply Co we're serving a community that we're actively a part of. We want artists to have access to gear they can trust from people who actually understand tattooing and what it takes day to day. So if you want the tools that make the most sense for your tattooing business. Scan the QR code on screen or hit the link in the show notes below. Now back to the show. Any projects coming in town that you're like, you think you might be able to want to work on? I got some really big, important projects coming up. Stuff that I'd really like.

Don't want to discuss. You know what I mean? Just because I don't want to fucking ruin it before it even, you know what I mean? Secures itself. Yeah, but. Yeah, yeah. Big things coming. Yeah.

Big things coming. Always is. There's just I don't know, I mean, it seems like every major venue in town you've been able to, like, somehow fucking got in there, I don't know. Yeah. I got in there. Just, you know, just trustworthy guy. Yeah, you you show up and you put in the work, and and it's fucking good. And it's.

That's all. It's all they can Yeah, I'm there. And I give 100% every time. You know, I try my damn hardest to do you do much, collaborative work with the murals. Yeah, I do a lot of collaborative work. You know, I work with, one of my good friends, Dana Anderson. He has a group called the ISI group. Yeah.

And he has a ton of artists on his roster. And a lot of the projects we do, involves more than just me. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, I do a lot of, collaborative. Yeah. Mural work.

Yeah. you do much too. Collaborative tattoos. here and there. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we have like, a ton of collaborative tattoos going on at the shop. Yeah. I've gotten in on a couple of them, but, yeah, I'd like to do more.

Yeah, yeah. I never even really done one before, That's fun. It's fun. It's fun working with your friends, doing anything. You know what I mean? But you know what I mean. Getting to getting to do a big, fun tattoo on, like, you know, a fun client with your with your bud. How's it get better than that?

You know, You seem to like, keep yourself pretty, like, low key as far as putting yourself out there, right? I mean, I am. Yeah, I'm not very good at social media or. Yeah. I just, you know, I just kind of do stuff how it feels right that day, you know what I mean? I'm not I'm not really that great at, you know, managing myself as a business. You know, I'm just good at creating every day. Yeah.

Maybe I should hire an art agent or something. One of them is out there. Yeah. Contact me. know, sometimes I wish I was, like, a little less entrepreneur driven Yeah. just let it out. You know? Yeah.

I always have to have a reason nowadays to, like, book time to paint and stuff So one of the reasons why Dane is so valuable to me, you know what I mean? Because he fulfills that, you know, part of my personality that, you know, I'm black and a little bit, you know, I'm just I'm the creative guy. I just come through and I just make stuff. Yeah, yeah, I make the stuff. And then I show up. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a it's a very, very fun to watch you work and stuff, but, so before you, before you were at one, like, you were you with. You were with Aaron That was an acronym in at at Heritage Tattoo on Sunset and Sand Hill in Las Vegas for 11 years, I think.

Yeah, 10 or 11 years. I was there. Yeah. Over a decade for sure. And I and I worked with Aaron before that at Pussycat Tattoo. I worked with them there for about four ish years or something. And he's the one who vouched for me to to get hired over there and them. Yeah, yeah, a lot.

I love that guy. Yeah. So did you open up heritage with him or. I mean, Well, he when we when he decided to start heritage and open up the shop. I stayed at Pussycat for, I don't know, I was a handful of months, maybe an extra 8 or 9 months or something, just to kind of smooth out everybody leaving because, you know. Yeah. Air and left and, you know, the the boss. Dirk.

He knew that I was planning on leaving too. And then Aaron took his apprentice. So that was three people essentially that he was losing at one. So I tried to hold a little bit of loyalty there and stayed at the shop for a little bit. And, you know, I basically just let those guys build it all out. And then I showed up when it was all done. That's awesome. How did your relationship with DJ get built up and how did you guys end up coming together.

J. is just a mutual friend that, you know, I've had in town for here for ever since I can remember. And, you know, he's just a huge inspiration for me. So, you know, he's always just somebody that I've valued their friendship. And, you know, we've talked about open in the shop for years, and at some point, like, I think it just finally came to be the right time to do it. Yeah. Yeah. So it was good.

You know, I was in a good place and, you know, he was ready. So we did the thing seems like just a real nice, like steady, like Yeah, he's very grounded and down to earth for being such a superstar. Honestly. You know, it's funny because I always forget I've never even seen Ink Master before. You. You should. You should watch it. It's a show about tattoos.

You like tattoos, right? don't really watch too much TV, but yeah, like so I, I just never even think of him as that. I just think of him as the dude that is super talented. There was that bad apple for years, Yeah. I've just really always enjoyed seeing his work and his illustration and stuff come Yeah. Like I know he's that and yeah, I see it every day, but I don't really, you know, I don't treat him like that. Guys treat him like It's funny. Yeah.

the homie you know. I'll watch it sometime. check it out. There are some good seasons man. The season the season that Bobby was on was really good. Bobby and Freddy, James. Tex. Yeah.

James Tex and his son just ruled that season. That's a good one to watch. You know what I mean? Yeah, there's a lots of good seasons with tons of great artists Over the years, they they really did bring in so much talent. And it was cool to see, like, the stubbornness of the tattoo to give in and then actual Yeah, you know, but I think the stubbornness kind of gave in because the show got more quality, too. Like it started off, I would say a little cheesy and maybe a little misunderstood. And then as they got better judges and better tattooers and kind of figured out how what they were doing a little bit, you know, everything became a lot more organic. And I think Tattooers appreciate that.

Real Tattooers. Yeah. And we see like, how it can change your whole career Oh, amazing. Yeah. Oh, I yeah, trust me, I had the I get the front row seat. Yeah. Of how it can just boost your career trajectory up into the it's it's top tiers. Yeah.

It's amazing. Yeah. And it's. What a cool thing that. What a cool thing to have, right? Like. Or would we rather have it or not. You know what I mean?

I think Ink Master has done a lot for, for tattooing industry in general. Yeah, lots of positive things. I mean, we can probably talk about a few negatives, but yeah, more positives and negatives for sure. Are you pretty good these days about staying away from all the negative shit? I've never really seen you as much. I'm. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I'm, No nonsense, no drama, no bullshit, no negativity kind of person. So you can bring that to me, but it'll it's going to fucking bounce right off of this. You know, I just, I can't I can't do it. Yeah. It just doesn't vibe with me. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody who knows anybody who knows me knows that I'm very even keel.

I'm the same person every day. I'm always in a good mood. I'm always super positive. And I try to push that on. You know, anybody I come in contact with? Yeah. It's too easy to get caught up in, in negativity. And it definitely doesn't help you or the people around know.

shape or form. So in a world full of hate and negativity. Like you have to bring as much love to that. Yeah, as you can to balance it all out. And you know, I'm more, more, more, more about balance. So yeah, I'm like some sometimes like, unfortunately a little too nice. And I have let like certain people kind of like let that shit in around me a little bit and then I just. But I'm pretty good about not, you know, letting it stick, Yeah.

Once it starts affecting you, you realize, like, oh, I have to do something about this, or it's because it's affecting me negatively. like, dude, I can't you got to go, bro. Like, I mean, It only takes one person And it just spreads like wildfire Yeah, it takes one person and fuck it all up. So it took me a lot of years over the years of like managing people and then in our peers and friends, finally being like, yo, I like being able to deliver the message in a good way. Like, Yeah. And you just to move on. Like, I just can't have that shit. Yeah.

You attract to the people that fit you best. You know what I mean? yeah, yeah. And I always just, you need like, ten Dos Franks in the shop, right. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Just people that are just, like, smiling and like that just, you know, it brings in the better vibes for the client too.

And everybody like overall it's just Yeah, way healthier just to stay fucking positive. If you feel shitty or you're negative, like go for a fucking walk, dude. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Having good good having good energy is is key. I feel like there lately there's just like too much, you know. Oh well there's a ton of.

Yeah there's a ton of bad shit going on. So it's like yeah you can really get caught up in that, you know what I mean. Or you can recognize it, be aware of it and then move on. Yeah, yeah. Try to focus on some more positive shit. you deal with some haters and stuff over the years. always. Yeah, yeah.

Putting your heart out there. Yeah. You got to have fucking, you got to have people that hate you. You know what I mean? Like if you don't, if you don't have those people then like, yeah, you're just not doing it enough. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Kind of people are fucking just don't like you and they don't even know what. Yeah, you know, it's all right. So they'll figure it out them with a smile. I say, yeah, sometimes I'll even send them product or something like that, you know, just Yeah, just you overcome that, you know what I mean? It's like, who cares? Cares So I don't know. Yeah. Overall you do.

You like, like where you're at with tattooing and everything. I mean, it's fucking. Yeah. I feel like right now, you know, right now, you know, like we kind of already talked about. I have all these amazing artists working at the shop, it's incredibly inspirational. Like, it pushes me to just want to be, like, so much better, you know what I mean? Than, you know, how you get into this comfortable space where you make your stuff and everything's cool, and then, you know, someone comes around that really blows your mind, and it makes you go like, fuck, I can do better. Yeah, that's how I feel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though I'm really confident with what I'm creating, you know what I mean? I'm like, oh, I can do better. Yeah, yeah, there's always room for improvement and I'm trying to like, improve right now. Are you good at not being too hard on yourself, though? Now I'm super hard on myself. Yeah I know I'm super hard on my self. Just like I feel like we all are.

We're artists. We're like. You were incredibly sensitive about our work, and we only want to hear, like, the best things. But, you know, we're also students of the game no matter how long you've been doing it. So as I think as long as you stay in that mindset, you're going to keep growing. You know, once you once you say fuck it like, this is fine you then you plateau and know, I there's no reason to really even try any harder at that point Right? Just you're supposed to be. Yeah I don't think it's a very healthy place to be Want to always be growing you you ever growing small amounts You know, it's not like we have to fucking scale the whole mountain today I just want to, like, make a little bit of progress each day I love the shop that you guys put together too Like like the esthetics of it and everything It's kind of like this fine art gallery but it's got it's still got some great to it Thanks.

You know. Yeah. What? How did that come about? How did how did one we. What's the name? we decided on, I think, before even looking at any units that were available, We decided on opening up a shop that looked more like a art gallery. Yeah, because it does.

The esthetic that I think worked best for both of our personalities. Something really clean with bright artwork and like still being a comfortable place where you could get tattooed. But I don't think there's, you know, a ton of shops out there that really look like that. So we're just trying to do something a little different, you know, all the shops that I've ever worked in, I've been taxidermy on the walls and a ton of clutter, and not that I don't enjoy that. I love it, you know what I mean? What? It's what I've always been comfortable in. But, this new shop, we just wanted to try a little bit new esthetic, something a little bit cleaner and brighter.

Yeah, it's clean, it's bright, it's fun. But like I said, like, I mean, it's still just like the level of artwork. I mean, the amount of artwork in there is awesome. And they do the giant sculptures in the middle and everything. Thank you. Yeah, want to come by and do like a little video you should. Yeah. He said, please do.

Yeah. You guys got some great, like, art, like, it's like a lot of, like, reader one stuff and Yeah we are. Yeah. We got a lot of Michael Rieder stuff. J. have like, the same kind of taste in style of, like, you know, fashion artwork. So it was really easy to, like I had a lot of work, you know, a big collection of artwork that we put into the shop before we opened, so we didn't really have to, like, buy a bunch of artwork and get it in there. But since we've opened, we were like constantly switching out a lot of the paintings and a lot of art in there and trying to keep it fresh and new.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's cool. Mean, I was even a DJ was giving me a little tour the other day, and, there was some beautiful work in there that he said was a client of yours. There was an electrician Yes. on the side. Yeah. His name is Nick. His Instagram is art at Wicked or Wicked Art. I forget exactly what, but he's, one of Emmanuel Sacred Crows older clients.

When he was working with us at the shop. And he's an electrician, he was, you know, he was off of work for all of December and I think part of January. So he was just at the shop with this painting for like four weeks straight. He did. He did, like, two giant paintings. He did a painting for TJ to paint for me. I think he did another small painting for Emanuel, and we have 2 or 3 of them up at the shop right now. They're incredible.

It's amazing that this guy's a fucking electrician when he's banging out art like this and so effortlessly, too. It's like, well, I watched him like, you know, sketch and draw a bunch of stuff. And I'm just like, this guy's got so much talent. Like, Dude. It's cool. He's, you know, why is he fucking, you know, wiring up No, I know, but at the same time I like that he's got this, like, consistent, like, that's not an easy career, you know. But he's doing his thing. He's Yeah.

He is creating like stellar artwork on the side. Is pretty bad. yeah. And he's not really like posting it either. Like I think a bunch of the paintings that he did for us, he never even put online or I'm just like, wow, this guy is incredible. And he doesn't show anybody. that's that's a shame kind of though crazy. He's so good.

Yeah, we love him. Nick, shout out to you. One block started. were looking sponsored over here today. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, doc. One block started at the first, unit that we looked at.

It was over. It was over off Fremont and Main Street or something. And it was one square block, like it was its own freestanding building. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah, And I think we were just out in the parking lot chopping it up, like talking about names. And one block popped out of his mouth out there. I don't remember, but it was just like, oh, well, that sounds that sounds like certified. You know, it's like, I don't know, it just sounds like stable, you know what I mean?

That's fun. So, yeah, I mean, we just kind of stuck with that and we took it to the to the new shop. We didn't end up getting that building. Yeah. That, that it it fell through and it was a real old shitty building anyways. But it was in a cool area. It was like a block away from Fremont Street. And Oh, it was sick right there.

downtown. Yeah. Yeah, it would have been a mess. yeah, yeah, It would have been a mess. It would have been a terrible, terrible, terrible thing. But but yeah, like the inside of the building was really cool. It was like, you know, an old funky building, you know, all open on the inside. And it was right down in the mix of all the fucking chaos over there.

So we were like, oh, this might be fun. You know? Yeah. But yeah, our location, I was like, perfect. But that's where one block came from. It was that one block and I think just the name, just like I said, like, sounds like a solid foundation, you know what I mean? Like the first block, the first block you build with or, you know. Yeah.

It doesn't ever have to make sense either. Just Doesn't necessarily have to make sense. Yeah. Just like everybody asks us where the name comes from, just because it's different. It sounds cool. Sounds like came from somewhere. But yeah. You guys been having fun with your merch lately?

Yeah, yeah. We've been trying to, like, consistently drop merch. Yeah. Right now we did this like bootleg. Yeah. New balance rip. So that's fun. Yeah.

five panels or eight rooms. Five panels. That's Yeah, yeah. Five hours. So you can is the goal goal to continue to grow that. And, Yeah. We're just trying to drop merch every couple of months just to keep things fresh and, you know like just keep, stuff cool. you guys plan on doing, like, putting on that online or is it you have it on site?

No. Or really, right now we're just doing local pick up, and you know what? We will ship out. Yeah, but but we just do it through DMs on Instagram. Like, we'll throw a shirt up, you know what I mean? And if you want one, DM us. And and Jenna J's wife will get you on the books. Take your payment, send out your package and do all that stuff.

if you ever have any questions about e-commerce, let me know. Yeah I will. Yeah. Once we scale up, once we scale up, complicated as it I'm sure mean, to get it I know we could make it probably a lot easier on days y if she didn't have to bag and tag and send and ship and receive all the things. Yeah, I think that's that's probably something we'll be looking into. Yeah. That's cool. So overall though, people can just stop in the shop and, yeah, you guys, if you guys have like consistent hours, I mean, I know it's mostly by appointment only, right?

Yeah. Like I said, I mean we all kind of we all kind of shop for the same schedule. m. m. Oh, okay. And then you shut down Sunday. Monday. Unless for the most part.

Yeah. I mean, we have like a lot of guest artists coming into town. So they might be there on a Sunday, Monday, or we might be pop in on Sunday, Monday, do some tats or whatever. But for the most part, yeah, we probably won't be there Sunday ever. And then Monday it's it's a maybe, you know, you. But like most of your guest artists just kind of let's it's all just word of mouth through friends and everything. Just pop into town and. Yeah.

Yeah. I think for the most part, it's word of mouth. I mean, since we're a pretty new shop, like, we're not getting a ton of walk ins and stuff yet. So, yeah, I mean, if you're coming to the shop to do a guest spot, you definitely need to drum up your own clientele and bring somebody. Is that something you would ever want to do is evolve it to where it was more of like an open spot where you could have, like, other artists or something, you know, take walk ins. I mean, I think that would be great, but just this is the quality of artists that we're hiring right now. Just can't. can't do that.

Yeah. You know. Just So yeah, it's great. We love when when people walk into the shop and want like a small town makes us feel great even though we can't do it, Oh, even though we don't have time to do it. We love it. Yeah. Please come into the shop and ask us if we do walk ins. We probably won't be able to.

It feels nice. Yeah I mean, that's fun, you guys. Yeah. I mean, you guys have, definitely have an opportunity to do whatever the fuck you want. You know, you have, like, such a great, healthy crew there that seems to all have such a good following to you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, we've got a great crew right now. And man, like, just like I said, like being born and raised here.

We have all the resources and all the things that we need to for to, to to succeed. So yeah we're in a really good position. Shit. What else you got planned for tattooing? man, I don't know, like I said, like I'm just trying to, like, just focus on quality and kind of like, you know, just bumping up my designs and and just feeling a little bit better about what I'm doing. Yeah. Other than that, I mean, I don't know if I have any, like, long big grandiose plans for tattooing. Yeah.

I just want to keep doing the same thing I've been doing now, you know, as your mind and body holding up though? I feel. I feel really good. Yeah. Yeah, I feel really good. Bodies. I, you know, I wake up tight sometimes tight shoulders and, you know, my, my back starts getting sore after a long, you know, long hours in a week. But other than that, I feel really good.

You know, I do my little yoga here and there. Yeah. Yeah, I do my stretches and, you know, I stay active doing the mural stuff too. So. So that gets me out of the shop and not so hunched over every day. And it gets me, you know, like climbing up ladders and reaching and doing all the things. That helps out, too. But, yeah, I feel really good.

Your eyes are good and everything. Yeah. my eyes started taking a shit big time. And, like, I got my fucking readers now so I can see, Really? hate it. Yeah. I mean, old. are good.

I've always been. I think it's what? Far sighted. Where I can't see. Very good. Far away. But I can see really good up close. So I'm good.

I'm good. Yeah. For now, I'm good. Yeah. So yeah, I look up and I can't see shit. But you know what I mean? Like, right. That tatt in front of my face, I can see really well.

Okay. I don't know, you got any, like, inspiration or like, like favorite artists outside of your shop right now, and you have so many people coming through, but anybody out there that you're some of my favorite artists right now, filthy art tattooer. Yeah, yeah, he's, he's he's, one of my favorites. He's killing it. We got Jack Gox. He's going to be at the shop, I think, mid June. Yeah. He's killing it.

Who else? Man, there's so many great tattooers out there. I mean, I'm so inspired by some of my best friends. Aaron Riddle. Yeah. Emmanuel, sacred crow, those guys. come out and do guest spots again or, He hasn't been out since he left the shop last year. But, you know, he's just trying to get back in the zone over there in Columbus.

I'm sure he'll be doing a guest spot with us soon. Here. I need to hit him up. I asked him to do one of those trains Yeah, his trains are sick. They're so cool. Yeah. He has, I think one of the best styles out there in tattooing right now. You know what I mean?

Like, if we're going to talk about the most unique style in tattooing, you know what I mean? I think Emmanuel's probably on way up there on the top of my list. Yeah, he's great. Our good kind too. I don't know why he just Yeah, yeah. Sick love looking up shit Sick kind of, like, real, really animated style, but it's, like, so polished and fucking It's great. I love me of his stuff too. love it?

yeah. I don't think we kind of have, like, talked about, partnerships too, and, like, having good quality people behind you. I think you asked me one time at a convention, you were like, do you think you'd be where you're at today without your wife? And I was like, whoa, I don't know. That was kind of an interesting question because like, I, you know, I feel like I was pretty successful before her and, you know, and happy and solid and then you like you ask that and I'm like, yeah, but I don't think, like all this shit that we have right now, like, me personally, sounds like wife's the same. It's like so good to have a more level head than I've ever had, ever, you know? And it sounds like that's where you're at, too. And having somebody behind you is just like, the most healthy thing I think you can possibly do, Yeah.

it is. It's so good for you for your, your mental health, physical, fucking everything. Like, 100% definitely give my, huge amount of credit just to having somebody that's there that can push you through those hard times and not somebody that pulls you down. And I just been around so many tattooers, unfortunately, that I've watched and just have not good spouses. Yes. not a good thing, man. It's like Once you find a person who really, you know, uplifts you and motivates you to be the best version of yourself that you can be, I think a lot of things click, and especially if you're like working into that every day, does, you know, you're having a strong female behind you. Is that really.

best you. yeah, yeah. It'll push a man to do but and conquer anything, you know what I mean. But if there's nobody there, you're kind of just going off your own willpower. But if there's two people manifesting the same thing, it's going to happen faster for sure. Especially if you have somebody who's like, Bright or Die Strong right behind you, understands you, fills in the gaps, does the things you know. brutally honest with Yeah, you need that. think we all need that brutal honesty more than anything.

Yeah, yeah. people. I've watched this with Tattooers for so long, like, get gassed up from their clients, always telling them their their shit and blah, blah, blah, you They start to get this false like sense of, you know, this giant Yeah. Your clients are going to tell you the honest truth. No, but your fucking wife. Well, you know what I mean. Like, I've shot I've shown Diana the drawings, you know what I mean? Plenty of times.

And she's like, what the fuck is that? Or like, what's that thing? And then I look and I'm like, yeah, you're fucking right. I can specifically think of a tattoo that I actually followed through on and didn't really think, like I thought I was nailing it. Yeah. And then I was at lunch with my wife one day and I showed her, and she's just like, the fuck do you do there? fuck is that? Yeah, it's like, still, I could feel it.

Yeah. It's like, but it's a good, you know what I mean? It's a it's a very healthy, like, jab to your fucking, you know, ego. yeah, it was like so fucking melted all day. I was The good it. Well, it makes you step back and go like oh yeah I should, you know, look at things with a more critical eye or you know. yeah. Because I think I was like, I thought I was nailing it to, And sometimes you're doing it and like, even things like this, like getting yourself like just constantly pushing my me personally, pushing myself to do things like this.

This is not something that's natural. Like to sit down and No, no, I'd rather not. Yeah I'd rather not. But you know and I'm sure I yeah it's, fun and I but I do like have this new, like interest and passion and to be able to like, sit down with artists like you that I've admired like throughout my career. It's cool now it's like a new platform and I'm just trying to learn and do better and figure out where it can go, Okay. Do you're doing a great job. Oh, kudos to you. I'm excited about, like, I don't know, it's fun because we have these like, like, conversations at conventions or in passing or something.

To sit down, like, I've sat down with, like, Jen and like a handful of your other Yeah. Oh John's the fucking. He's the funnest person to talk to about anything because he's just so animated. He's just Like an, an incredibly smart dude too, you know what I mean? For being so like, you know what I mean? Fucking cartoon character. He's smart. It knows what he's doing.

Like, yeah, this is a great guide in be himself. And I think that's a, you know, that in itself is a challenge for us and as artists too, because like, Like we all just kind of as artists like are naturally kind of introverts Yeah, an extent, you I would say so. Yeah, I would say most, most artists are, in some type of sense introverted, you know what I mean? yeah And it does. It takes a little something to pull you out of that. tattooing. I mean, did it for me, Yeah. You have to be so personable.

Yeah, you have to be so personable. And you have to be, like, pretty locked in with people, or else you'll be disconnected and, you know, that's not a way to form relationships with with clients. like a huge I can't handle, like the, the headphone kind of like aspect to tattooing. I feel like unfortunately those people are like those tattooers are missing out on building all of these great relationships. Like, Yeah, like the people that I want to, like, reach out for, like mentorship or even, you know, any advice or anything. Now in my life are people I met through tattooing that I created those bonds with. And Yeah, call just to talk to and a lot of things that will benefit your personal life, too, if you get in to talking to somebody and, you know, it's I've met some of my favorite people, it's just like getting to know them while I'm tattooing them.

And then I realized that I really like this person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think I learned a lot too. Real quick through tattooing about not being judgmental. Like, it's real easy to obviously, like, judge each other when we first meet each other. But then you sit down with somebody and then you see them from our standpoint in this state of vulnerability, where they're going through hours and hours of pain with you on your ribs or something, you really get to learn about that person, like who they are and they open up to you, they always open up to you for me personally to like someone will open up to me within the first two minutes of me tattooing them or whatever. And then like, I'm, I'm interested to. Yeah.

And I'm, I'm quite a bit nosy, dude, you know what I mean? So I start asking questions, you know, respectfully, I start asking questions, you know, because I'm curious, No for sure. And that's I think one of the, my most favorite things about tattooing. And so now it's like fun to kind of do this because I'm like oh okay. Well now doing it with like other tattooers. And then we all have Yeah. common and, and it's really fun to just get down in there and learn from everybody. Totally.

There's a lot to learn from each other. That's cool. I wanted to know more about your murals and like, how that all came about, your tattooing, where you want to go with tattooing. It's like Dude, I just want to move up, you know what I mean? Whatever that means to me. I just want to just keep moving up. Yeah, like I said, if it's gradual, if it's at a high pace, as long as I'm moving up and not stay in too steady or moving down, you know, that's where I want to be. Yeah.

Yeah. Just keep this consistency going in. My life is really my goal. I'm seeing it, man. And watching it. It's like it's it's really cool, man. Thank you. I'm like, just likewise.

fan, so it's cool, Yeah, dude, I want to just continue to watch you grow. It's really cool. And, I just thank you for coming by and hanging thanks for having me. dude. And, hopefully, we'll see you again soon. Yeah. We'll do another podcast where we talk about aliens and, yeah, government conspiracies and mermaids or some shit. he doesn't want to talk about tattooing at all.

Yeah, yeah, let's do that. Let's bring Bobby in and we'll just have a line of things that we're going to we got to get Levi in here too, man. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, he is. You're going to have to have a whole. Yeah, I can have the whole itinerary ready for him. Yeah. Levi's the best do talk about talent, Oh man.

want, like, every time I look at anything he does, I'm just like, what the just incredible. Then just the amazing tattoo where everything he does that's another thing too, is, like, the same with you. Like, I read this in when airbrushing was big in the 90s. I used to read the airbrush and this guy wrote a he was just saying in an article about how if you can get really good at drawing female faces, you can be so incredibly successful in your career. Like, I don't know what that is about. Just us as men and women Yeah. to, like the beauty of a woman Yeah. I think just nailing a female face is incredibly difficult.

It's very you can anybody can jump on. Anybody can jump on, the internet and grab a beautiful lady's face and trace it. Yeah, but it doesn't work. And is that something that you've always like? I mean, you've you've been doing them for a while and you, do you still just fully sketch everything from scratch and you I do a little. I do a little combination of everything. sketches over a All rough sketch over a face. If that doesn't work, I'll just rough sketch out a face.

Sometimes I'll have something in my head that's very particular that I want to get on paper and, like, I don't have a reference for it or I can't find one, so I'll just. I'll rough that and I'll rough that until it works. Or, you know, I mean, there's, there's not like a, an exact process that I follow. But just so you know, whatever is organic in that moment. Yeah, It was the like the makeup in the hair is always like super intimidating. Thank you. Yeah yeah yeah. It's it's hard dude.

Yeah I try Yeah. And and you put you pushed through and progressed like so. Well is that I don't know. You got any advice for like, younger tattooers that are trying to jump in and and attack that stuff? Yeah. I mean don't try to emulate anybody else Just try to do whatever you feel is right and not what you think somebody else got success from doing Yeah, Yeah. because that's what's ultimately what's going to you know, make you into your own artists That's what's going to create some type of uniqueness in your work That's personal to you And that's what people want to see They don't want to see the the chopped down version of like, the other guy's stuff That's really good Who's already established you know. So feel like there's a lot of like very similar stuff out there do take the risks and you do take the chances of trying to do something unique and that is kind of the only way you're ever really going to stand out there's like a feeling to something.

You know what I mean that like feels cool and feels right. And when something's a cheap version of something that feels cool and feels right, it's just that, yeah, you know, I feel like we need to get off the internet, too. And like, seek other inspirations as far as our art from, like, different cultures or different, you know, Yeah, I to bring that into your styles, like, I think tattooing needs that right now. Yeah. Maybe breaking out of the boundaries of what everybody's just been doing, you know what I mean? For the past ten years, over and over and over again, trying some new shit, which I do see happening. And, you know, when you see it, you're like, wow, that's like cool. You know what I mean?

We need more of that. But that takes that also that that also takes clients to like understand that like new and unique stuff is not like, you know, scary and it's cool. Yeah. You know, it's not weird. It's fucking being weird. It's cool. do you feel like you ever had had to really, like, try to sell your clients on newer stuff? You were pushing totally.

Oh, I sold clients all my shit for my whole entire career. You know? And do you do do it more with like a combination of your words but plus like just literally showing them. both. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, showing a client a piece and then being able to explain that piece to them in a way that makes sense. Is is it.

Yeah. If you can do that, then you'll probably be really successful with you know what I mean? Showing people and being confident about showing people your designs. Because sometimes it is hard, especially when someone comes to you for not something super specific and you have to kind of judge their personality and judge them as a person, while maybe not ever spending more than ten minutes with them before, you know. So do you spend a decent amount of time trying to, like, if it's a newer client like that and you, you're not 100% sure on their direction. Do you more time talking to them and drawing for I might yeah, I might spend some extra time just kind of feeling out them as a person. And I usually doing that, I can kind of, I can grab on to something that I feel is you know what I mean.

Important to those people. Yeah. And I run with that. I think that's But yeah, have to be good. Kind of really like listening very well and and judging that person, like, in, in a way that is going to be helpful for you later, you know what I mean? But if you're only focusing on just the consultation details, you might miss out on those subtle, those subtle things that kind of go like, oh, this guy likes this, or he's going to be into this, or you know what I mean? I'll ask people other questions that don't even have to relate to, you know, the designs that we're talking about. Because I know that these questions are going to lead me to something, you know what I mean?

Gets gets to know that person just a little bit better enough to where I can navigate designing for them in a way that I know is going to hit. I think that's like I just simple lesson of just like it's all you you got to be willing to go above and beyond if you really want Yeah, that. And you really want to push your art to that level and get somebody to purchase it and pay you what have to be willing to sit down and talk to them longer and try to figure it out and or just give them like a really, really thorough, rendering and stuff to, Yep. that they not most people can't see what you, what you're doing. Nobody can see what you're doing, you know, but like being able to, like, go that extra mile to get that artwork out and show them is and not worry about like, maybe this guy fucking won't feel it, but yeah, least you have it for the next client or something Yeah, it is important if you can key on in in on that person's personality right away, then you'll be able to create better for them for sure.

Yeah. I just, really appreciate you, man. Coming by. Dude is real cool to sit down with you, and, I'm just excited to see, Yeah. Any time I'd like, I'd like to come back and do it again. Yeah. dude. Let's get, like, one of the other guys in here.

To me, we can. I can set up for people now, Cool. Oh, really? Yeah. Let's do that. I can get a big one in here and get everybody rapping about whatever the Yeah, that'd be fun. Yeah, yeah. So I'm, I'm really excited about doing this and really, like, looking forward to reaching out.

Also like if you have any female tattooer friends, like I don't have, I haven't had a whole lot of female guests. And we Oh, really? Should get Kelsey laid on here, cause she's the best. And she's so fun to talk to. Yeah, she's my favorite dude. Yeah, I can execute them down there. Yeah. Also, I, I spoke to, was it Liana Arquette?

I don't know if I pronounce her name right. She's at downtown. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's awesome. Yes. Yeah. Her tats are sick.

I love her, that is like, how to describe that style of stuff that I don't know, just super fun. Traditional. Yeah. Bright colors. And like illustration styles. Cool. Yeah. She's great.

I love her work. And then actually tattoo her over, painted lady like Oh, ash. Yeah. She's incredible. I was trying to stop in there today and say hi to Yeah. You should. Yeah. She's sick.

draw, like, talk about putting on, like, women's faces. just draw a gorgeous dude. She's and then just fucking tattoo She's killing it. Yeah. Love her work really, really fast. We have so many fantastic tattooers in Las Vegas like, it's pretty crazy. yeah. At first I was like, oh, I'm going to try to get Tattooers from all over the country.

And I'm like, I don't know, man. Like, I don't think I need to right now. Like there's you got quite a few that you got to run through first. Yeah. Las Vegas, and it's so cool to just see all different kinds of styles, too. Yeah. Tons of people guesting out here too. Vegas has always been one of those places.

Easy for someone to fly into and have a good time for a few days or. yeah. If you ever know of anybody that want to stop by, I just send them my way. For sure? Well thank you guys so much for tuning in, man. This is support. Your local tattooer. This is Brett Rose.

Pilar, where do we follow you at Just my first and last name, Brett Ross. Epic LA at Instagram. Yeah. And check out one block. Got some. Like, honestly, one of the craziest line ups of Tattooers in in the country. Yeah, well, one block Las Vegas that we're on, Dean Martin. In between Russell and Sunset we have Bobby Johnson, Glendale boy, Levi Murphy, Freddy Albrighton and John Cali soon.

So John comes oh like so soon or soon. Coming soon and then and then and then DJ Hamby. Yeah. Yeah okay. So yeah. And also DJ yes. Dude. Well thank you guys so much.

So yeah. Thank you so much for having me. in touch, dude. Let's party. all right. Party on. Party on. Wayne.

Oh, you know what I fucking forgot before we go. Yeah, I saw you in the bathroom at the Anderson I went to go get a vinyl, and you were like, pick me one. I told you. Yeah. I was like, buy me one. And I jokingly, I jokingly said, grab me one because I didn't want to wait in line for a one, but I wanted one. I got plug in good. Thank you.

Yeah. What a one of the best tiny desks. Yeah, definitely up there. Yeah. Might be the best, might be the top for me. But yeah. This is an incredible album man. Thank you.

Thanks. Preciate it.

These two girls walked in and my mom had like, just come in after her day job and we were like, what about a piece of this? And just lifted up her shirt and just butt naked in front of my mom? I was like, what the fuck is happening? And they always whoop about two feet up Lena on the wall and just shit and like, what do you do to the ground? That was it. All right. Today on the podcast Buddy Holiday from Downtown Tattoo. Having worked 25 years as a tattooer, he opened up Downtown Tattoo on Fremont Street in Las Vegas back in 2008.

He's built one of the most covered character smoked American traditional tattoo shops in the country. You go to, like, open the back door and it just smears. Poop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man. We get into some wild downtown shop stories, Fremont Street chaos and what it's really like tattooing in some of the craziest environments Vegas has ever seen. Most of the time they lie and they say, I'm going to go travel for a bit. Yeah. And then next week they're posting on the street up the road and you're like, why can't you just be honest?

Like, we're not having sex? No, I know you don't need to lie to me. You're breaking up is hard to do. Yeah, right. Plus, we are joined by my dad, Charlie Spencer, as we break down old Vegas tattoo culture, how the industry has changed and the reality of building something that lasts. I'm Austin Spencer, and this is support your local tattooer. What's happening? Everybody, welcome to sport local tattoo where I'm Austin Spencer today.

I'm super pumped, man. We got my buddy buddy suit that came out on that. Sounds like, Buddy Holiday in the house. And, we are. I don't know, man. I've just, like, been dying to talk to you. And we got my dad, Charlie Spencer in the house, so. Yeah.

What? What do you got? This is is this. How many podcasts have you done there, buddy? Have you. Yeah, yeah. Are you getting more comfortable with the whole process for more comfortable? No.

Yeah, I was, I was watching your episode on Skin Deep. Okay. Yeah. With Josh, like. Yeah, it was great. He did. He did a good job. Yeah.

Yeah. He didn't like he made me look better than. Yeah. Than I usually do. You know, I think a lot of us is like, obviously we're just we just been tattooing and we've been all tattooing way before social media and having to talk to the camera type shit. Yeah. It's weird. So now it's like a weird thing, but I think this setup is like a little more comfortable.

Like, once you kind of sit down and relax like it gets a go in there. But one thing I do is I always, like, touch my glasses, you touch my face, I'm like, what am I doing? I can't watch, I can't watch any of them. It's like a wheelchair. Oh. Like what? Yeah. Yeah.

He's like, I don't know what to do with my hands. Yeah. Today I'm excited easily because I'm getting over the flu. But yeah. No worries. Well, I'm glad you're healthy. And thanks for coming here, dude. Yeah.

So, I mean, we've owned tattoo shops in the same city. We've tattooed, you know, a lot of the even some of the same people and stuff over the years. It's super fun just to sit down and bullshit and rap and I'm like, stoked to learn about more about you and, share with everybody. Like my passions. And like, I'm super excited to talk to you just more about like, dude, your shops, like you have two shops now or hands down, the coolest shops, like, I'm probably, I think like, I, I really, really love going to your shops. There's like, there's just so much soul and so much energy and history behind everything. And I was like, watching this video the other day. It said that you had like 1300 hand-painted sheets.

You think roughly around, like way more than that. Way more. Yeah, yeah, we're probably Fremont Street, I would say like over 2000 and then Water Street we got now we just we're almost done with the ceiling. So we probably have like close a thousand there. Yeah. All of you. So like the flash racks we sort of like I got flash racks and we started filling those. I need a I'll have the shop.

Can I count them okay. No exact number because now I'm now I'm curious. Yeah. For sure. I mean, we used to count I used to count like, oh there's like a little thing that we painted on the side. I'm like, I'm not even gonna count any of that. Like, that's just. I just want to like the sheets.

Like the angle. Yeah, yeah. Your shops. Right. And all the sign painters that you've had come through over the years and different illustrators and stuff do all sorts of cool shit. Like, have you been in the, the flash racks like the old days? Yeah. The stores, they're hard to find now.

Yeah, yeah, we still have our fun. Amused or something. Yeah, ours are somewhere. They're in the back closet. I've been going on to sell them. Let me. No, no, I was just thinking that when you hear me in my. I want to keep them now or, like, pull out.

Like I pulled out all this like old Bill Canal slash and yeah, I'm like, Aaron delivered just a lot of, like, San Diego guys that I follow it over the years, you know, so I have a lot of their stuff and shit we picked up from, like, Mike Bozell and, oh, you know, just like a lot of random stuff, but I, we didn't really, like, collect a whole lot because when we came on, we were trying to be custom shop, you know, so it was like that we had that time when flash racks, though, maybe we did. Yeah. Yeah. You know, for the first like 4 or 5 years at flash and I don't, I don't remember all the names, but yeah, I was one that I always enjoyed. Perfect. Had great flash. So you have two shops. You, one in old.

Old, what do you call it? It's like Henderson. Like old Henderson. Yeah. Downtown waters and water Street. And then you have got the OG one on Fremont Street. Yeah. And that's your second location of the Fremont Street one.

Like. Yeah, we were on seventh and Carson and then, when Zappos moved everything down to, say, the owner of Zappos, he started buying up all the property down there. Yeah. And it seemed like he just thought everyone that was in the area that was already there or just garbage. Yeah. You just kicked everyone out. There was like 2008, like, during the recession or some shit, right? Like I opened in 2008.

So that had him in charge. Okay. 12 to 13. Okay. So my lease came up for renewal and they wouldn't renew it. So I did two years and I renewed the first two, and then after the next two they wouldn't renew it. So and the building was just sold and I was like, okay, ours was in the process of selling. I was like, get what's going on here, here.

And then they like kicked us out to put a restaurant. But it just worked out where I'm at now. My landlord, he didn't want to rent 30 shops because he had like these, like two different shops right next to where, like I'm 1106, who's 1104. He had two different shops in there and they just like they were like one shop was running girls out of there. Another one. Oh yeah. He's like bad, you know, so bad set up for him. And then so I was like, no, please just come check out the shop I have now.

So he came in and we talked and he's like, he's awesome. You know, he's all, yeah on old cars and stuff like this. Like and you know, and I had my Merc at the time so. Yeah. So I he was jazz on my car is like. And also my wife was around so you could see that I wasn't like, yeah, I was being a jackass. Yeah. Well that neighborhood was pretty rough too.

I mean, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. And like, you know, that guy kicking everyone out was bad for a lot of people. It was so, like, all those motels were like. I mean, there was like, a lot of old people living on those, like, the only option, you know. So that sucked. But then like, yeah, some of the shitty people got kicked out too, you know, that word came up, but, karma's a bitch.

Yeah, and deal with it still, you know, like he did. Yeah, yeah. Fucking. Damn. So you been in yours? You said since the new, newer. Yeah. The new one.

So 2008 to 2013, we were there just like exactly five years. Yeah. And from 2013 to now. Yeah. Do the not owning the building thing is like to any younger tattooers that are getting super excited about opening their shop and everything and you start getting in there, you start putting so much time and love and energy and investing in that property. And then the fact that you could just lose it at any point in time is pretty bummer. The same painter to paint the windows. Yeah.

Those with you. Yeah. But I did get the door. You did when they remodeled. The construction workers brought the door. Oh, yeah. The glass from the door. And so now at home, I had it on my tiki bar.

Like, I like, built the bar. It was like a, like a shadow box. You know? And then when we moved, I disassembled all that. And now I had someone, a guy build a desk for the front of the shop, and it's. Oh, that's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the other day.

Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Yeah. It's so cool. Been in there. Oh, man. I went by your, your older shop and, for some reason you were closed or something. You know, to visit one time and, and don't get downtown much, so I haven't been.

Yeah. Down here. New shop. And were you living down there for a while? I did, I lived at the Newport Lofts. Okay. Yeah. Which was quite a trip.

Yeah, yeah. J j swarm telling me they go there, run like, laps on the roof or something. Yeah. While we were drunk. Yeah, yeah. Throw fireworks at the bums and shits in the on the sidewalk. I looked down there and there. Hookers are down there walking around.

And I had these poppers that I bought in San Francisco. Yeah, they sound like fireworks. I mean, they're they're not like the little ones. The kids pop. They were, like, twice as loud. So I get a bunch of drug dealers and hookers down there, and I just toss a few down and the streets just cleared. It was a areas that nobody thought to look up and see where they were coming from. The 17 floors up, you know, it was that was great living.

Now I enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. You were a spectacular I know that and nonstop you know entertainment from above. There's. Yeah. There you been you've been downtown for that long like you have seen it get better. But there's also still an incredibly large amount of just wild ass shit and reminds me, like, I don't know, there's something I love about, like, wild and a tattoo shop being in a wild ass neighborhood.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. As long as it doesn't come into the shop too much. Yeah. And usually they learn pretty quick. Yeah, yeah. They're not welcome there.

Yeah, yeah. They know where they stand with you and everything. Yeah. You had some pretty wild stories up there. I'm sure you got some wild walking in. Oh yeah. Yeah. So.

Wow. Yeah, yeah. Some regulars that come and go or Yeah. As far as. Yeah. And then they like, they'll disappear and you're like, oh do they die? And sometimes you'll see them like years later and they're like even worse. Or they're like the rare occasion they're better.

Oh, come by and then you're like, wow, I'd never would have guessed that you. Oh that's awesome. Yeah. It's not that often I get. Yeah, that's kind of like the stories from our first shop down there. Oh, yeah. We were right by the the tunnel was a mile long tunnel where there's a whole city of people living under there. So they'd come out of the tunnel and introduce themselves to us, on a regular basis.

Sure. Yeah. Have you seen those documentaries about the people that live under there? Yeah, yeah. Our city. It's one, two, two. Yeah. So we were right there.

Like, that was one of the main entrances and exits. Was like, right at the base of our shop. So the amount I remember I was sitting at the front counter with my mom one day, and these two girls walked in and they were just I could tell they were kind of like working girls, you know? And then they were like, asking about a quote or whatever. And my mom had like, just come in after her day job and was just standing right next to me, and they're like, well, what about a piece of this? And just lifted up her shirt and you butt naked right in front of my mom. I was like, what the fuck is happening, dude? I'm like, yeah.

And the bums like shitting out in front of your shop. I'm sure you know where you wake. Yeah. Do you go to, like, open the back door and it just smears poop? Yeah. He was like, oh man, I remember Cain. Our piercer, Cain Friesen, came in one day and he was just really upset. He goes two, two.

Just pulled up our dress and took a shit right in front of me. And right in front of the shop. And I said, well, good, I don't know, go spray it down. Yeah. I thought, I don't know what to do. And they always like, they always poop about, like, what, two feet up they like. Yeah. Lean on the wall and just like, what?

What can you just do in the ground, you know, is it all right where you can't get your door open because someone sleeping in front of. Yes. Like, so many times you're like, I don't want to, like, ask this dude to move, but like, bro, you got to move. I got to open up shop today and they get all crazy on you when they get up. Yeah. You ready? But you tried to fight. You walking in the thing.

Yeah, yeah, I did it. Well, I don't help the situation, you know, just, like, kind of mess with them. I've calmed down a lot. Yeah yeah yeah. Yes yes. But you know, you're, you're messing with them and then they like papa and you're like, oh yeah. I thought you were strung out and like, you wouldn't be able to stand up and try to fight me. You stand up and you, you know.

Yeah, yeah. They're like two feet taller than you and a lot more aggressive than you. And I have nothing to lose. Yeah. Them. So your shops you've been focus on on American traditional. You know all your films American traditional and do you didn't start out tattooing like with your love for American traditional, right. Yeah.

Yeah. It was like it was like, how do you fall into that? Like when I started, all the stuff I liked in the magazines was new School. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was what was going on in the 20s, late 90s. You know, that's what I, you know, in high school I messed around with graffiti and stuff. So. Yeah, drawn to that. But then trying to think, well, during my apprenticeship, you know, Mike had Mike Stevens, my mentor, he had a bunch of flash on the walls, and I seemed to like, like the traditional more.

Yeah. And the black and gray stuff, like the Corey Miller stuff was awesome on the walls and. Yeah, yeah, no. But like, out of all the stuff, it seemed like the traditional was really cool. And I really understand it, you know? But then Ryan Downey, when I started hanging out with him and. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we let it put his pussycat.

Were you over there? Yeah, I ended up that pussycat. Yeah. Okay. I think that's where I first met you. Was. It was. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You would come by and participate in our art shows and style. Yeah. Which is awesome. And a cool thing to do in that community of tattooing. It's like, oh, especially like we're so competitive and yeah, we different shop. You're like, it's cool. You were always like open to like participate and stuff.

And as like sometimes when people all of a sudden take on that title of shop owner, it's like almost like they distance themselves up to feel like insecure or something. And you're like, dude, we can all still be homies and like, work together and help each other out. And it is weird though, right? It's almost like you become like shop owners will become like North Korea, you know, like the hermit kingdom. They don't want anyone to like, you know, they don't want their guys to associate with. Yeah, yeah. It's weird, especially old school like, oh, you know, my mentor was like that. Yeah.

I'm sure the younger shop owners are still maybe like, they believe too, that, you know, there's always hard feelings no matter what you do. Oh, yeah. They never leave on good terms for some reason. You try. Yeah. I remember Austin walking in one day in the back room, and, I don't remember who he was talking to. I just picked up on the conversation. As I walk in, he goes, I really like you.

He goes, you're going to hate me when you leave. But I really like you right now. And I don't remember who that was, but that's pretty funny thing to say. But it's very true. Yeah. And like how? Like dishonest a lot of guys can be when they leave. So it's like a two in town.

You almost guarantee you're not going to be friends because like a lot, most of the time they lie and they say, I'm going to go travel for a bit. Yeah. And then next week they're posting online that yeah, they're up the road and you're like, why can't you just be honest? Like I would have been I would have been annoyed. Yeah. But at least like you didn't have like we're not having sex, you know? I mean, you don't need to lie to me. You know, some chick I can.

It's hard to do. So true, man. I had so many, like, face to face conversations with somebody. Like, I just want to make sure we're cool or, you know, everything. Good. Like, I'm stoked to have you here, blah, blah, blah, two seconds and, like, literally like two days later, they're like, oh, yeah, I'm starting over here. And, I already have my own logos. And I did all my own stuff and you're like, okay, bro.

Like, so you already knew about all this? Obviously, two days ago when we had that conversation, you looked me in the eye and said, you're totally stoked and you can't wait to. I'm like, fucking fuck. And then like some of that, I wonder when that was going down at those particular times, if it was me, like like because like how I like, they probably saw how I reacted when other guys left. Yeah. You know, so maybe it was like, yeah, like, why would I be honest with this guy? He's going to be a dead no for sure. We.

Yeah, yeah, I was responsible for a lot of that too. Yeah. Yeah. I had no patience with lazy artists. People showing up late. Yeah, yeah. Which is pretty much every tattoo. Yeah.

I show up early. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I was like, you can't get here at noon. Are you kidding me? Yeah. You know, the week I worked in the work there before I did that, and I had to be at work at five in the morning, and I'd work from 5 to 1. And then I went and I apprenticed at Pricks Tattoo from one till 11. And then I got up and did it every day over and over, and it was like, how can you not get here at noon?

The crack at noon? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. You got, you have like I've heard. Do you have a relationship or I mean a reputation for running a pretty tight ship, right. I mean, your expectations for your artists are you have a kind of a nice. Yeah, that's probably why I said that. Like, I know of it was probably me, you know, but but but that's a good thing though.

Yeah. I, I don't know, treat it like a job. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Feel like a career that because it is you know, you've been so good to about you like it's obviously this culture that you built within your shop is, if you have downtime, like, you don't have downtime essentially. Like, if you're not tattooing your painting. Yeah.

That's a part of your culture that you built in your shop too, right? Yeah. Which, yeah, ours used to be real strong like that too. IPad kind of threw things off. But you've been able to, like, stick with this niche, this American traditional niche and keep all these great tattooers coming to you. It's really impressive. It's it's cool. And you've kept that same formula since day one, right?

Yeah. Like, I have a rule where, you have to initiate a flash every week. It doesn't have to be for the shop, you know, get be for yourself or whatever, but you have to paint a sheet of art because you need to say product. And you like, what are you selling? You know, hey, you know what? What you're up to. So you got like a studio for hours when they come in and like, show them or you know what? The internet, you know, put it online or whatnot.

And. Yeah. And so that's built up all the flash you have in the shop and everything. And I don't know, I just and I just give, give back to tattooing, you know, like if I could paint two sheets a week, someone gets paint one like I'm busy tattooing and running two shops and yeah, I'm a home life and all that, you know. Yeah, I would just sit here and you say just about everybody painting one sheet, and then you have these older sheets of people that maybe you cross paths with and maybe aren't, have the best relationship anymore, but you still take pride in having that sheet there because it's a part of the history and the culture of your, your shop. And, you know, I like that. It was it was cool. Yeah.

So I have sheets up of guys that I don't get along with anymore or whatnot. Yeah. Well but then as time goes on, those relationships. Yeah. Man did. Yeah. No. Like I have probably like 100 sheets of Ross Henry, you know, flash on the walls.

And for a while there, we didn't care for each other, you know. Yeah. Because he quit. He went on to do his own thing, which is like, no, you need to do. Yeah. I mean, at the time, I didn't understand it. And so like, we've, we've mended things since I still have all those sheets and they're really cool. Yeah.

So and we get the tattoo of them. So it's like you have like a even more of an, intense relationship with them because you've seen the ups and downs with that person and stuff. Yeah. And then like, they're still cool designs and people come. So. Yeah. And he's and he's cool too, you know what I mean? Like I just said, you know, you get hot headed and someone will wear emotional people or, you know, tattooers, I mean, we're artists and, you know, yeah, it just it just comes out.

So yeah, we're not all the best communicators. You. And sometimes it's like, it's not even that guy. It's the it's like the 20 people are left before them and they're just getting all of it because you, I don't know, got you on the wrong day or. Yeah. You know, like going into a relationship sour because you're actually I that quit before him was like a super tough guy and you couldn't yell at him. So this guy you're yelling at, you know, it's like, you know, just like the guys like men when they did, you know, doing for a guy, the Puerto Rico guy. Yeah.

Managing friends, relationships and in the business is a very difficult thing because, like, you fall in love with the people around you, you know, you can't help. But then you also, like, we're all have these strong personalities and where sometimes they start veering off on a different path. And yeah, that doesn't rub. You know, it doesn't. It's just not right with you. And then it's like you're trying to figure out how to like, jump in there and keep it together. And. Yeah, and then sometimes there's nothing you can obviously do about it.

Like they're just never trying to get on, keep my mouth shut and not say what was on my mind. So I would notice that I'm not talking to this guy for two weeks. Yeah. So he knows he's probably on the outs. You know, he I won't look at him. I won't talk to him because I don't want to cause a fractious in front of everybody. Yeah, well, I wasn't very good at that, but. Yeah.

Yeah, I've done that. But you give someone the cold shoulder and it's like, that's no way to work, right? No, no, you go to work. It's also like they're making a drop at the end of every day. So how how like horrible is effort that that guy, he's like, man, I could give this guy money when you fucking talk to me. Yes, I know for. Hey, thanks for checking out today's episode. If you're watching and listening, the chances are you're a tattoo artist who lives by their gear.

And if that's the case, doesn't it make sense to buy from people who actually understand tattooing? We built Maverick's Supply Co for this reason. Gear supplies, essentials built by Tattooers for Tattooers to see what we do. Scan the QR code on the screen and hit the link in the show notes below. Now back to the show. You said you used to, like you used to drink a lot more, and now you've been sober for seven years. Yeah. Is that something that you think has helped you out?

You know, you mentioned. Oh of course. Yeah. That in therapy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like I show up fresher every day. Yeah I show up like early instead of late.

Yeah. Now we get mad at people for being late. But I was late all the time. So there's like, almost like, have you later than me? You're in trouble. Yeah. You know, what the heck? I was, like, hung over.

Yeah. And. Yeah, but, like, I'm more productive. I, you know, come out. Oh. How many books since I think, ten books out, but I think I've come out. Nine of them since I quit drinking, so. Yeah.

Damn. Well, good for you, dude. You gotta focus your energy on something. So it's really impressive, right? Yeah. The goal is extra time. What am I going to do and know for sure? It is pretty wild how it.

Yeah, I haven't been sober for more than like two weeks. Maybe, but yeah, but you might not have a problem, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's drinking every day and way too much and it just it progressively got worse. And you know, like in the beginning it was like, you know, we early 2000 tattooing in Vegas. There was what, 20 shops. 30 shops.

Yeah. So that you would go out to a bar and you were almost like a to say it sounds dorky, but almost like a celebrity or a rock star. No, I know who I remember it, yeah. And then, you know, your party. I'm fun. And then I don't know, at one point, it just. So I stopped going to the bar. I just kept drinking at home, you know?

Yeah. I don't know when that happened and. Yeah. No, I remember those days. You walk into any restaurant and you, like, someone knows you or you know, the bartender or the manager. Food's getting sent over. Cocktails are covered. It was like a small town.

It was. It was like you were in a small town. Yeah. It was really hard to not go out to. Yeah. And and justify it by being like, well, this is how I meet people and this is how, like, people get to know me. So I'm constantly giving out this job. It did push my business for a real long time.

And then I noticed, like once I had kids and I didn't go out, then I'm like, oh shit. Yeah, now we have other tools. We have a social media. Totally. Yeah, you can do it all on the toilet. Yeah. And then how weird was it when you knew of a good tattooer but you never saw them out? Yeah, like Victor with mill.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was like a never met the guy. Yeah. Think. And, like, you know, his tattoos are great, but you never saw him out. Yeah. Can't Kelly like you would never see him out? No.

For sure. Oh he would run into him getting tattooed somewhere I like. That's how I watch him get tattooed by Chris Trevino at like a San Diego show one time. Oh, really? Oh my God. Yeah. It was like, fucking cool. Yeah, yeah.

You've worked with all of, like, the old school Vegas Tattoo works. A lot of them. So many fantastic tattooers came out of, Pussycat to. Yeah. Like, how was your experience over there? Who's amazing? Yeah, yeah, Dirk was awesome. Is still awesome.

Yeah, yeah. Dirk. Like he just when he hired me, he said, do good tattoos and pay your rent on time. That's so cool. And they're like. Like, can I go? I guess maybe like a salon where you just come and go, you pay rent and. Yeah, his thing was he just wanted to be able to have a custom shop.

That was good and not have to worry about, you know, people stealing from him and all that. And he just. Yeah, dude, that shop was like a breeding ground for all the good shops and down, you know, thousand percent. Yeah. Like Aaron Neiman has a shop. He worked there. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he a bunch of other people, you know.

Yeah. Friends. He was good to having, like, group art shows. And his band would play in that little tiny lobby and shit. That was like my first exposure to going to a tattoo shop, and it was just so much more than just a tattoo. The gallery. Go go go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, those are fun.

Yeah. You go crazy parties. Everybody was involved in the art shows. It was. Everybody signed the doors mirror. Yeah, yeah, the door in there with this pussy cat girl. Yeah. I started having people sign our door in our shop because of that.

Oh, cool. Like a lot of fans and doing the art shows and to was like, oh, wow, this is fucking cool, man. Like, I really want to do this. Yeah. You guys been doing event. You do events at you're like, you do your annual. Yeah. The shop on the anniversary party.

Yeah. Every year our fucking art show is on the same exact day this year. So we didn't get to go hang out of each other's things. Yeah, yeah. You've had an extensive amount of, like, guest spot artists to come through over the years. Oh, yeah. Like you're good at that. Yeah.

I don't I don't know how it happened. It just it just happens. And I'm very like loose with everything. I'm not very organized. So like I see these shops or they're always like promoting the guys on online that are coming in. And I'm like, sometimes they show up and there's a guest and I forgot that they were there to come in or, you know, especially if it's someone that's come through a bunch. Yeah, there's reach out to, you know, just a nick. And then he's like, yeah, come out or yeah, yeah, it's cool though.

It's I love it. And it's like it makes it to where all of us. It's like we're really motivated, like I guess like going and doing a guest spot, but we don't have to leave. So we got a new we can like feed off of and all that. Yeah. And and it's more connections, you know, it's like first you go. Yes. So their shop.

Yeah. Yeah that's cool. You doing both rental and you're sure you're. Yeah. We do the regular commission. Yeah. Yeah. You know I guess it's six one half dozen the other.

It depends on how you want to run it. You know, like you're saying. Yeah. Or like doing it that way. We just didn't ever want to want to do it, though. I mean, either I feel like I do a lot of merch, I do a lot of promoting and all that and like, yeah, then you make it where you probably wouldn't be able to do any of that. No, totally. You do great with your merch too.

It's always yeah, you always have like a good fun, like not what we would think of like tattoo or something. You know, you just have a lot of fun with it. Oh, I can't say I hate, but I really don't care for these days. The standard tattoo shirt where it's like they did it on Coke. Heel. It's one color. Yeah. You know, you can't tell what the fuck it is.

Yeah, yeah. But you got. Yeah, I do like more graphic design stuff for sure. It's stuff that reads well and actually sells. We spent so much money over the years designing our own shirts because we felt we were supposed to, and we had to, and they just never would sell and they would just look like shit. Yeah, I don't think, you know, well, luckily my mom like any of that, and she was I had a graphic design background, so she would bring in a lot more high quality, like more like readable or she's good looking. It's always so. Yeah, yeah.

I feel like if I wasn't a tattoo or a probably like, own a t shirt company or something. Yeah, yeah, I just love it. And I just it's it's art is fun. Yeah. My my iPad, I have a whole folder, probably like 300 designs of t shirts that are didn't make the cut or. Yeah. Do you design. Well, like most of them a lot of them.

Oh no shit. Okay. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. Well you, you work with like, blaze and like that blaze. I'm a handful. Yeah. Oh that's cool.

And other artists who I. Yeah. But, yeah, I just like, Well, I like bootleg stuff, you know? Yeah. I mean, like, I tell, I'll take some of an old matchbook and then turn it into a downtown shirt or something, you know? So, like, I just, I know I'm never not on my iPad, I guess, you know, I'm always, like, doodling or coming up or something. When you get into the iPad thing. Do you, do you remember, like, resistant?

Yeah. Yeah for sure. Yeah. It's. Yeah, it took me forever. I was the last guy on the iPad. Really? Yeah.

I remember we had this younger tattooer in there and he was like over there drawing on that thing, and I was like, what the fuck are you doing, man? Like and he's like, oh, just zoomed in and traced over and did this. And then I redid it. I was like, that's lame. Yeah. And then like two weeks later I was like, well, how did you do that? Like, you know, and then as soon as you play with it, it's fucking awesome. You know who got me into it was J swarm.

Oh, okay. So yeah, I originally got the iPad just so I could digitize my books and have them all in one spot. Yeah. And then J. We were, Oh, coming up with think it was just like a sticker design, and he was showing me he was helping me. And then I was like, this thing's actually useful because, you know, like, you come up with a design, you give it to the graphic design guy, and he always gets it wrong. Yeah. Because he doesn't, you know, he's nodding your head.

Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah J got like showed me the ropes on it and I started messing with it more. And now I just it's I just drawn I don't even have paper anymore. Yeah yeah yeah. You still paint a lot too. Yeah. Just like print out some of your drawings and then you'll hit them on your light table for painting.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That's right. I never have gotten used to doing just rough sketches on there. I'll take a just a notepad and do my rough. Oh, yeah. Take a picture of it, put it on my. Yeah.

It in. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. It's like now that works for me I yeah it's the rough sketch on the iPad for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. My hand doesn't want to. Yeah. It's it's like the tooth of the paper I guess.

Yeah. You know, just the texture of the paper when you're working on. Yeah. And then those, like the little film you could put on, I like, feels like that doesn't work. I tried that one. Gets a scene, people cough. Drop it. Yeah.

I'm not. So, like, back to, kind of your first kind of inspirations and getting into tattooing you, who who's your mentor? Is it Mike Stevens? Yeah, and he was a local dude. I remember that name, but I don't know if I can remember him. Yeah, I can't really name too. I know I was. Yeah, him when he first moved out here.

He worked at is either statues of us or Sin City. They change names at some point. Remember that. And, then he opened a shop called Tattoo Asylum. Yeah, it was originally Imagination Station, I believe. Or I actually think it was originally Star born on the East Side. Okay. 95 then I think it was Imagination Station and then.

Yes. Okay, I'm doing that. Shop's been so many things. Yeah. My, Frank black was a guy that only. Yeah. Spent a lot of time in prison. He had, like, his whole.

I was the first person I saw. His whole body was covered, like, really any. Yeah. No, no. Like bare spots. I remember talking to all those guys would come in and talk about about working at studio 21 at some point. Yeah. And so I interviewed a lot of them but never saw him again, but I yeah.

Oh he opened up after he came. They came in you know. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. I don't know always I heard you got like some tattoos by magic. Oh yeah. Yeah.

He was like, was he had a tattoo. It was a tattoo asylum. Was there a second location that was like on the Las Vegas Boulevard? Was that there was star born? Was there star born? I was getting tattooed. I got tattooed by magic. Had tattoos, were us originally.

And then he left there. I went to, Star Arbor. Okay. I got most of my tattoo that's around it. Yeah. Yep. Was your dad a tattooer? No.

I've sorted out here. No, I don't know, because he was. He was like, a little bit confused with. Someone told me a story about their dad. I can't remember who he was. No shop with, but that was somebody got shot in the leg accidentally. Oh, shit. Yeah, I know your dad for some reason.

Oh, somebody else I know whose dad was a tattooer. Oh, I never met. I don't like. Who was that guy? My dad had frozen food at Vons. Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah.

Oh, tattoos. Okay, well, that was a totally different story. Yeah, like if you were a young tattooer right now getting into it, like, is that what were you what would you do? Like where would you want to work or pussycat, I mean, yeah, no, I mean, if you think about it like, I don't know, is there like a, a place there that you would like to start around or something. Yeah. Oh, I kind of think about that sometimes. Yeah. You got so much deep roots in Vegas.

But I remember at one point in time I threw a fucking dart at a map and I was like, I'm going to move here and I'm going to be a tattooer here. And I ended up in Miami and I was like, I don't fucking, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. That's a that's a tough one. Yeah. Any city like yeah. When you tattoo people from all over the world, which we do, you do. Yeah.

You talk to people from everywhere. And many times I've had people go, I come here, I want to open a shop in, you know, Salem, Oregon. Oh, well, there's a lot of towns I can open your mouth. Why? Because I've never even been there. I think about it like spending a lot of time in San Diego. You know, there's so much great tattooing that came out of San Diego in the early 2000s. And like that just seemed to me like the most amazing place, like the way Aaron Dellavedova set up guru and stuff.

He would had a surfboard rack in the back so you could go down and surf in the morning, come in, draw and then do your tattoos. And then he even had like an apartment right above the shops where like he would rent that out to artists and I'm like, that always just seemed like, well, fucking that just seems like tattooing by the beach sounds nice. Yeah, that's a go. Yeah. I would work at Avalon when I first went in there and met them and I was like, oh, I'd like to work here. Oh, you're so nice. Yeah, it's just such a cool spot. Yeah.

Rest in peace, man. She just passed away. Did she? Yeah. Yeah. And flip is looking for right now. Somebody that went into her house and stole a bunch of, like, really, classic tattoo machines and pieces of art that found out that she passed. Oh, my real fucked up dude.

That's fucked. If anybody knows out there robbing that Dan lady, that's fucked up, dude. Yeah, terrible. Yeah, yeah. But that question, I don't know, I think it was Vegas, man. I know. Right? Like, I can't think of a better city to have learned tattooing.

I mean, yeah, I'm sure, you know, like San Francisco or like. Yeah. Yeah. But like, I don't know, I'm, I don't know, I just like how it all played out for me for sure. Dude, the I mean, even the location of the your Fremont Street shop, it's, it's, it's cleaned up so much nicer around there too. But it still has such a just a rich Vegas culture like, yeah, you know, the the fucking cool ass old motels all around there, the way you painted the front of your shop and the neon and everything, and it just. You built a good home. Yeah, well, you're going to be surprised when you go by there next.

Because all the motels. Because she just got demolished. Oh. What? Because I just was at the going to do that to Ferguson's there. Okay. All the, all the boarded up ones. Oh okay.

All I released. Oh they're all demolished. Yeah. Tony Shay by all those did nothing with them. The junkies got in there, stripped all the copper, caught them on fire. Oh. Damn. Oh, there's too far gone.

And isn't all that shit in probate right now, too, because, like, all that property, he died and didn't leave a fucking will. So there's a shit ton. But then they discovered a will. Really? Yeah. Discovered a will, like six months a year ago because his, like, his lawyer was so old, he didn't he forgot he did it or he didn't know that. Like he didn't know he died. Oh it's like was like someone mentioned it to him.

He's like, oh I have his will and so fucking. Yeah. So then now there's, it's a whole dude. The story of that whole thing of like Tony Shay coming into downtown and buying everything and then getting kind of strung out and like, losing his life was. That's a I always felt like he wanted to be Howard Hughes. I just felt like. But he was, like too dorky to really be Howard Hughes. And he was like, trying too hard.

Yeah, like it was. And then he was like, oh, I live a modest life. I live in a tiny home. Yeah, in a tiny home in the middle of downtown that you bought everything. Yeah. And like 42 other tiny homes. Right. So all your friends hung out?

Yeah. Like you like you're hoarding all kinds of stuff, like property and everything. Like you're so modestly. Yeah. Fuck, yeah. There's always some guy coming in from out of town and seeing downtown Vegas thinking they're going to. Yeah, revive it. You know, Bob snow, I don't know if you remember him, but he's the one that built the the station, the cement station, the main street, main Street station.

Yeah. Oh, and he it was a pilot. And he would drag the banners and fly around town. This was back, I don't know, you guys were a little kids, I think, and he would fly, you know, Main Street station and that he was a big promoter and he but he did everything himself. And I thought that was a really cool property. Was really fun to go in there and have dinner and a train car and stuff. But it failed. I mean, it just seen so many people come in there and put a bunch of money in and then leave.

They just, yeah, go with them. Leave the way Tony left the house down. Whippets. Yeah. Well, his thing was like when he was buying everything, I would, I would read every article that would get published. He was like interviewed and everything was like, we're gonna do this like the Bay area. We're gonna do this like San Francisco, my vacation zone identity. Yeah, yeah.

You cannot replicate the Bay Area in Las Vegas. You want to be like the Bay area, actually. And it's like what the container park was, Oh, this outdoor mall. I mean, are you an idiot? Like. Yeah, it's like a 525 degree, you know? So these people. Yeah, they're all steel boxes, full sun exposure.

Nobody seems to learn that building things in Las Vegas. Like you need fucking shade, man. Like, here's the face. East. Yeah. If you have some face in West, You're screwed. Yeah, you're you're French. Whereas when we look for a shop location.

God, Becky and I would drive and drive and look and look. And we always wanted to corner, you know, try to find a nice corner every time you did find a corner. So. Yeah. Me either a black CVS would be there or whatever, but, just trying to find that perfect spot. But you didn't want anything facing west because hot as shit in there. Yeah. When you pay, we go to.

I don't even go there in the afternoon. Yeah, yeah. Because it's too hot to get. You have to wait for my first location. We were facing the window. We were on a corner and it was like west. Yeah, yeah. And if, like, you know, like that certain times a year where you, like, kick the AC down in the evening.

Yeah. Well, I tell the guys, crank that shit up before you leave because the next day it would be so hot. He would never keep up. You were literally in a glass box. I remember that you had east and, south facing windows. Right. So the sun was all day long. All day.

Well, you're in a good spot now. Facing north. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's it's really nice of you. Yeah, yeah. Somebody on both sides.

You with air conditioners? Yeah, exactly. And, oh, I was I think two is just the first location. The restaurant next to me moved out and there. So their air conditioning wasn't like, well, no one's running the air conditioner. I had this, like, candle. It's like one of those, like, you know, like a hand like that. Yeah.

And it was on a shelf. And I just watched all summer long, I think, just slowly melt because it was like next to that wall. Yeah. You could touch the wall. It was hot. Dude. Tattooing when their AC is out is no joke. Brewing in the summertime is here.

The sweat just dripping off your nose and you trying to like, do everything you can. Like first time making. I took a trip with the kids after we moved here in 89, and, we had a she she, you know, decorates those candles everywhere. Took a trip, came home, we turn the air conditioning off to leave. I didn't think about that. You don't turn it off when it's 120. Outside came home. All the candles like this, the.

Yeah. Everything in the house was melted. Droopy shit that. We won't do that again. So, you know, I took it to 85 or 90 or something, and 9090s. Cool. Compared to what it gets. If you, if you turn it off, you know what it is.

I don't know why I was randomly thinking about this. I started to look up like your Yelp reviews on your shop and your responses are fucking funny, dude. You bite back. And that's something that I didn't stop doing that really good. Yeah. So, like, for a long time, it was just your shop. And my shop were top rated on Yelp. Yeah, I think you were hip to it.

Right. Like, for me and then. Yeah. And like, because we was closed. So when we first opened in 2008, the recession. Yeah. And then Yelp called in there like, you know, trying to pitch me on. And I was like, I don't know.

I was like, oh, I have 300 bucks left. Yeah. So like, I'll advertise for 300 bucks. And like, we were really close to like, really? Yeah. Because it was just dead, you know. Yeah. And then you started getting all these, like, little tattoos come through, or these women or you guys that wouldn't, like, normally get tattooed.

They came in, they would leave us reviews. And so I, oh I was always watching Yelp. I always knew you guys were like, yeah, there was. Yeah for sure. But then like being the, you know, I don't know young jerk. And I was, I would, you know, someone leave a bad review and I would just talk shit. And it was funny for, you know, to read, but it wasn't funny when some lady left us a bad review because she, like, supposedly got an infection. Oh, God.

Yeah. What she did. You know, you're in the hospital or whatever, but I it wasn't from the tattoo. I think she just blamed it on the shit tattooed and then go fucking swimming on our ankle. Yeah. So I see you touch it. Yeah. I think it was the only time I can think of that.

We had somebody contact us that had an infection. They got tattooed and they walked down the street all day sweating and, you know, kicking up dirt on it, and, they got an infection. Fortunately, she was a nurse, and we didn't have any kind of issues. And she called just us. Tell us it happened. And I really appreciate you, but we're talking about responding to. What did she. Yeah.

Did she come back? So I looked at her review. So she's she's that to you know. And I looked at her other reviews. She got an infection from pedicure. So part of my thing was like, it looks like you're prone to infection as a total jerk to her, right? I should have just, like, called her. I think she ain't even called the shot.

What? Oh, wow. And I was out of town, so, like, just total dick about it, right? And then she sued us. Oh, get the fancy one. Yeah. So, like, our deductible was 500 bucks, but she won. I think her settlement was, like, 40 grand.

Whoa. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Wow. Damn. I'm okay. So then you just straight stopped with the responding.

Yeah. I was like, I'm going to be nice to people. Come here. Oh, yeah. That's just what I used to do. I if I saw a bad review, I would find out what their email address is because you can. Yeah. Backdoor to their email address.

And I would send them an email and go, hey, I'm a owner. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience. What can I do to make it better? You know, and nine times out of ten, that review was gone. Yeah. Just for responding. Yeah. I didn't have to do anything.

I think once I had to get somebody in Seattle to, fix somebody's tattoo. Oh, yeah. So nice. But it was like, you know, you just call them up and go, hey, I got this client. I'll pay you to fix it for them. Yeah, so they don't have to come. They're not coming back to Vegas. That's actually smart.

Because if. Yeah, that's that happened. So that was our what was the grounds of suing like the in fact like she claimed the infection and then what. Yeah. But like I yeah I, I'm, I 100% confidence in the guy that did the tattoo. Yeah. He did not give her an infection. Yeah for sure.

You know what I mean. There was well her claim I might I said you know, was. Yeah was ridiculous. And so, like, there's no way he did what she said he did. Yeah. And to give her an infection and like, having seen that her other views, like with a pedicure, she had an infection. Think she might have been prone to it, but yeah, I don't know, like even our you went back and looked at her reviews and she was writing bad reviews on other people. Yeah.

Oh that's right. That's usually how it works. Like the people that are leaving the bad reviews, that's all they really bad. Our first bad review, the I never forget her name. Sure. Her name was Miss Good Katie. She was from Southern California. Oh, she just ripped us a new one.

If she wouldn't. And I've tried, you know, solving the problem with her, right? Never, never would take it. That was always a first, first review that shows up, you know, terrible review. Oh, and then she didn't even get tattooed at our shop. She came in and she said she had an appointment, but she hadn't made an appointment. She had just talked about making an appointment. So she comes in, doesn't get to get tattooed, says we're in the ghetto and we're just writes all this shit about us sharing a tattoo there I to.

Yeah, of all of our our reviews was a customer who never got a tattoo. I had one of those where the gal showed up and everyone was tattooing and was annoyed that she had to wait a couple minutes for that. But we always acknowledge people. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Oh, they they said they'd be here and it took two minutes to get to me or whatever. We they didn't have a counter version as like, so I was obviously was a smartass.

Yeah. I read that one just this morning. Yeah. Yeah. So you don't know what. Yeah. So I'm better about that. Yeah.

Yeah. My favorite one was the white tattoo one. You were like, I don't know what she was bitching about. She just wanted to get a white tattoo and they wouldn't do, I don't know, something like I think she got it, but then they like what we didn't do her skin, like, totally. Yeah, like a white. Had to. But she left a bad review and but she gets on there. It's like once you grow the balls enough to get a real tattoo.

Was black lines at the rest of the world can see it. So I don't know. I just thought it was fucking funny. And now I have to go on a Ranger route. And those are lies. Old as fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're still on it, but they'll they'll allow a battery of you to stay up there. But then they filter all these.

Good one. Yeah, yeah. Oh it's such a fucking silly. I mean yeah. Weird like. Yeah. Because we didn't pay any advertising ever. Really.

With anything. Yeah. We just the. Well, it seemed like a card to me. A conflict of interest for y'all to be using you. They're using. Yeah, yeah. You're business and they want you to pay them.

Yeah. It just I could never. It's ridiculous. But then they just started pulling some mafioso shit and they just, like, pull all your reviews back and funnel you down to the bottom. And then once you pay, then it like, puts you out. You're like, you have all this time and energy put into those reviews and there's like a huge value there. But then now you have to pay them to fucking get people to see it. It's real frustrating, but I don't, I don't pay, I haven't paid them in years.

Yeah, yeah, I heard that. Like was it Google tried to buy them and they refused. Really. Google came out with their own reviews and then that's what everyone goes on Google reviews. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah we do way better off of Google reviews. Yeah actually. Yeah. So Yelp is like kind of nothing now seems.

Yeah, yeah. We still we still it's almost like the, the second level of checking in on your business. They go they see the Google and then they'll jump over to Yelp and then even Google though now it's like we have I think more we got on that early like you said, like I went to San Francisco and I learned about Yelp and like the the review culture even thing, you know, and then I so I built all that out for a shop like right when I got back and then we, we got on and it started getting a lot of work off of it, you know, like you said. But yeah. So you haven't paid and you don't advertise at all. Right. No. Because it's it seems pointless at this point.

Yeah. Like you're paying a company that used to be big. Yeah. You know, like, what are you going to do for me. Like. Yeah. Are you going to help my Google reviews? Because yeah.

Yeah. It does seem like Google reviews took over. Yeah, I still use Yelp when I travel and stuff I like I do for like, I mean for the restaurants. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, almost 100%. You can count on those. But I don't know about tattoo shops.

I love sitting in your shop though, and watching all the people walk in like you're in such a great location. It's so cool. We don't get like that walk in traffic anymore, like we used to back in the day. But I mean, we we do, but it's not like as hours as they're dropping them off, you know. Yeah. Like bring people up or whatever. But they're walk ins but they're not I like this, I like to use like on the street corner and you're like, you can sit out front and watch people walk by. It just feels I don't know, it's just it's awful.

And like I said, that's a nice vibe to. Yeah for sure. And you get the keys to walk into in the fucking weirdos and shit. That's a fun part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you can kind of tell pretty quickly, like if they're there for the right reasons and stuff. Oh it's fun. It's they're wearing a backpack.

They're they're not, they're, they're good. Oh good backpack. So shit man what do you got. You got some like, ideas. You want to just continue to do books and build shops. You ever going to do three shops? No no no no I'll chop. Yeah.

You got a good formula right. That's what I want anymore. Yeah fine. Any more investments? Maybe I'll try like a rental property or something. Yes. That sounds like anything they ask to. Yes it is totally more book.

So eventually. But I think it'll be more like historical stuff. Like. Yeah, yeah, like the Grimm book you put out was more like their name in. Yeah, that was great. Mainly our collections and then a few other people contributed. That book was was awesome. That's cool.

So everything in there is actually out of your your collection. And yeah, you when you look at the book like in the beginning gives credits to who? All consumers. Yeah. Yeah. But like most of its majority Aaron they're me and then yeah everyone else contributed like dang do you do you ever think you would want to like, kind of put some of your collection together in a place where people can view it? Yeah, yeah, I have it at Fremont Street. Oh well, yeah, I guess, yeah, that's all the stuff.

You have it up and now everything. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. I, there's so much to look at in there. Yeah. Recently went to the Salt Lake City Tattoo Museum, so. Yeah, Fishburne owns, No shit.

Yeah, he just turned his shop into a museum. Well, he opened a second location. In that location is a museum that they also tattoo other. Really? It's beautiful and, like. So I was getting ideas. Yeah. I just don't know, like, my whole collection is just flash and acetate stencils.

Yeah. It's kind of making a comeback right now in good time. Charlie. So he just opened a shop and it's a museum basically. Yeah. That's cool. You got all this. Like, now we have just this rich history and now the idea that you can display it.

And then so many people are into tattooing now and educated about it. And to come and learn and view is cool. I wish I had grabbed all of Phil Luxe stuff when he was selling. He has so much like all that stuff back in the days I never ever seen. But like he got rid of them all. I think he sold them all thing. Well, that's cool though. Yeah, yeah.

So what do you have to do to call your place a museum? Well, I was talking. Was he. He's like, unless you want like, the tax benefits. I think you just call it a museum over here for your personal collection. That's cool. But I don't know if I'd have to, like, restructure and, like, display more of it in the front or. So I'm brainstorming.

Yeah. Is there museum police to come in private and. Yeah. Yeah, I know you can get grants and stuff, but that seems like a lot more work than I'm willing to. That's the deal with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just would. It'd be cool to be able government. Yeah.

You don't want to deal with the government. Yeah. It'd be cool to say like downtown tax you home of that last year. That's amazing. But yeah you know I have no idea. I would like to, but yeah, you should. I'm not going to know. I heard ChatGPT is super good at building grants or writing grants.

Like, I was interviewing the principal of this school that there's like a charter school the other day, and he's like, I'll just use GPT to write all my grants. Like, what the fuck? That's it might be something to look into. Yeah, I'd like to help you out, but I would probably have to move a lot of that vintage stuff toward the front of the shops. Yeah. You know, so that's a and then label things. So yeah. Because I don't think I would want to like have to stop every time someone came in and like totally explain everything.

Yeah. Yeah. You want to get, you know, put a little nametag on and just stand there with a little Mike Tyson volunteer docents or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I need to, like, also expand my collection more too. Yeah, I do have do you have room down there to expand if you, if you want to know. No. There's a wedding. Yeah.

You can either side. Yeah. But also like we have some which is great for business right. Yeah I do it. And he says he does good. Yeah I bet. Yeah I would think yeah. I mean people come to Vegas, get married and get I lived right above that.

Some of those wedding chapels when I was down there. So you know. Yeah it fun, fun to watch them too, you know. Well, I love that they're always out there taking pictures in front of a shop. Like, there's so many people that are getting their wedding photos, like, just even a couple shots out of their collection. Yeah, right in front of a shop. Even if they don't get tattooed, they're like, our shop is still because we have the neon. Yeah.

So they do take pictures there. I and they walk in and we're all well trained on it too. Like we you could tell if they want to take pictures so. Well I'll come take pictures and we'll move out of the way. Oh cool. Yeah. That's like always tagging us on wedding flash in there at all. We do?

Yeah, but you do? Yeah. We have, a lot of bills and that sort of thing, like some deals with them too. Yeah, because like the the chapel next door, they have like a whole kind of theme going on. And, we've painted designs around that. Yeah. Of course. Yeah.

That's cool. Yeah, yeah. What's good, like working with your neighbors to, you know, good neighbors to have. Yeah. Yeah. We always try to set up near a good kind of a bar. Our first one with a royal frog. Wait, I remember that.

Well, which is like the craziest place ever. And, turned out it wasn't really a bar. I found out later on, but I'm more totally, Okay. But, anyway, it was, interesting. So that's why we we set up next to Jackson's over there. Oh, are now super nice guy who. We've always had a good relationship with him as a neighbor. Yeah, ours are the best to be.

That's cool. Yeah. It's good to have, like, community, too. And, like, network with your other small businesses around there. Yeah. You have your parties to. You have to send everybody over there. You ready to go home?

Go to law. Yeah. You still host your anniversary party in the whole back parking lot? Yeah. The cars. It's all private now, right? Yeah. So you have a lot less, like, weird traffic coming through because they gated it all up?

No. So the landlord did that because we were like people as things are been developing downtown. Yeah. People park in our parking lot and go walk up to the other businesses. So we tried to strike a deal with, with, downtown project, where, like, you pay X amount, and that helps, like, me maintain the lot. And it was nothing. It was like 300 bucks. Yeah.

He was I think that he was asking them and they refuse. She's like, well, sure, I'm gonna put up the the pay parking and we all get we all validate. Yeah. So we don't have to pay, you know, professors we have to pay. But yeah, they're like instead of paying him 300 bucks to like, help him clean up the garbage at all, the people leave. They screwed themselves. But yeah. So now when we have our event, he just makes it to where you can't open those gates to where the school.

They'll leave. But no, no new cars could come in. And he's he's awesome. So good idea. How long you been tattooing now? Next month will be 25 years. They come I you you you know more than me. Yeah.

I've been, like, light on my tattooing this last year, but, yeah, I started tattooing in 2000. Okay. I was 2001. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. So why I teach art at the same time. Yeah, yeah. So he didn't start tattoo until he was, like, in his 40s. That's awesome.

Yeah. Sorry. Like crazy. Right? Right. It's basically six months behind him. I finished my apprenticeship and. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't start. I had a full career before that. Yeah. So what'd you do? Land surveyor or civil engineering? Oh, cool.

Yeah, it was so totally different, you know? Yeah. Super corporate thing is, I still have dreams about being a land surveyor and working on these projects. But I never have dreams about tattooing. It's. Yeah, I don't know what I do. That's just very strange. You ever have nightmares?

Like, I think it might be nightmares is like, I don't want to. Yeah. When I was working a whole lot, I remember, like, having these nightmares of me, like, all of a sudden realizing I didn't have gloves on while I was tattooing or. I don't know why. It was like, you know, sometimes these dreams are just so real. But feeling how awkward it feels like to touch a steel tube without any fucking latex in between you, is just like the strangest feeling of you're not used to it. And I remember like, having these nightmares of, like or just like realizing like it you're talking about. I just said I never have dreams about it.

But I do think I do have dreams about tattooing without gloves and gloves on, and or I just get a line and, you know, it's like it's just fucking going and it's like you're trying to fight, but your arms are just like water, you know? Yeah, yeah. I just remember having those dreams a lot like you. I was just working six, seven days a week and just trying to, like, deal with, when you first started with your first business, did you work seven days a week? Yeah. So should we. We. Yeah, yeah.

Our goal, we did seven days a week, 12 hours a day, and we made it seven months. And we finally decided it went to six days a week and rotated one day off for him and then one day off for me. But that's how we hit it. We just hit it hard, you know, hard for the first couple of years and then. Yeah, but like when you open any business, like, you should want to do that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I feel.

Yeah, actually, I don't feel like I've worked since I got out of the engineering business after that, I've basically been retired. But yeah, I just had fun, been doing what I wanted to do. Yeah. You know, I think I always wanted to have my dad didn't have a business or anything. He worked for a big corporation and when he finished up, they shit on him after, you know, 30 years of working for him. And I was like, I don't I don't want my kids to have to. I want to have a business with my family. And so that's what we're doing.

That's how we can I mean, that's part of how that happened. Originally, I got my first tattoo. Austin was he was ten years old with me, two daughters. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Boulder highway to G dude. Yeah. We he went out there with me twice, and the second time he watched the whole process and everything, we walked down the parking lot.

I go, we should tattoo together. He was ten. Yeah, I was 19. We started tattooing together. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was already in our head that far back.

That was like maybe an 89 or 90 when we started thinking about wanting to get into his awesome, almost wish. You know, sometimes I think, I mean, I could have done it any time, right? I could have done it in Houston before we came out here. But had I done it in Houston, I probably would have been finished way earlier and gotten out of it or killed myself doing drugs or something. Yeah, that's possible. I feel that way too, because, like, when I was 18, I got offered an apprenticeship. Sincerely tattoo. My friend Nick, who got me ended up getting my apprenticeship at tattoo.

So I'm. He said I could get you in, and I, I was like, I had done, I'm out of my house in high school, and I hated it. It was so frustrating. I was like, no, you know, blah, blah, and then worked some real jobs and realized and then hung out and tattoo shops enough. I was like, I kind of want this, you know? And then I got in, but if I would have done it, then I like first of all, like some of the guys I would have been exposed to, like, I'm some of those dudes. Rougher crowd. Yeah, it was a rougher crowd.

And some of the dudes died. They overdosed and stuff like that. And like, I wouldn't have been exposed to the the tattoos I was exposed to. And so I'm kind of grateful or very grateful that I didn't jump on that. I think we got into a perfect time. Yes. Really. Actually, I think I would have, I definitely, especially because when I was young, it was a good time because prior to that, the tattoos were pretty rough and.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there wasn't shit for competition really either. You know, like when we open, you know, you opened a little later than us, but like, when we opened, like, there was only a couple people our age learning how to tattoo in town. And then when we opened, it was like I was the tattooer for all of my friends circles and their friends. You know, it was a and then it's progressively more of like my acquaintances and friends got in and started infiltrating my circles. And then it was just like, dude, you did it. Now it's like, I don't even know who tattoos in this town.

Sometimes it's really difficult. We feel there was a point where we knew everybody was into the cooler community, too. I always say cooler, but like it was, you know, you knew everyone that that tattooed and the or you knew of them. Yeah. Those, those rare guys that didn't go out there kind of hermits. They, you knew of them. You saw that work around and you could tell too. But yeah.

Like it it was cool. Like being able to experience, like less shops. Anything. But it's still cool. Yeah. It's like feel like I love. I think it's cooler now. Yeah.

Well, yeah. Yeah. You will. You see, you got some, like, some deep roots in it too. You know, the way you're doing it too, you know. Yeah. The way you're doing it is cooler. That's what makes it cooler, I think.

Yeah. I think it's cool. Like the three of us started, like, at a, like a time where it was like, we got that experience, you know, and like, the guys are getting to now are getting a different experience. It's going to be cool. They're gonna, in 25 years, be sitting there talking with each other and thinking, man, that was so cool. Yeah. These guys, you know, these guys don't know what they missed out on. It's going to just keep happening.

Yeah. And the guys 25 years before us, we're saying the same shit about us. You know. Yeah. Yeah I remember we were in Washington and Austin and I went up to, Vancouver, Washington, and I. Somebody contacted me to do a convention up there and City of Vancouver. C.. I haven't been there in a while.

And she sends me, you mailbag. She goes, I'm sorry. We're in Vancouver, Washington. Are you still coming? Yeah. I was like, fuck yeah, we're still coming. So we came anyway. Li'l turtle was there, and I had, I don't know if you ever saw our penny smasher.

Oh, yeah. We have three designs on there, and I thought, this is pretty unique. I've never known a tattoo shop that had a penny smasher. So when in Vegas, from a lot of people smash penny let it's a out of money. But it's a funny thing I love I've always got your pennies. Yeah, I've always collected the pennies. I still like how I talk Becky into it. I said, you know, have you ever seen a business with a penny smasher go out of business like the Grand Canyon or Disneyland?

And she's like, no, that's a you're you're right. That's so great. Know, with Grand Canyon still in business. Surprising. Can it be a business forever? So. But, Lyle came up to our table. I used to spread those out at the convention.

That smash hundreds of and just spread them out. Yeah, and people were just amazed that there were free. They would come out and look at them and. Are these free and like, yeah, take one. You know, take a couple of whatever. And, you know, they got and it said World Famous studio 21 tattoo. And in my opinion, we were world famous. We were people from Las Vegas tattooing beautiful and had been for a long time.

Lyle comes up and I knew he had a penny smasher. He had a story about his penny smasher, but he didn't say it. Picks his penny up. It looks at it, looks around, throws it back down like he's mad and looks at me and walks off on his cane and I walk over to excuse me there, Mr. Tuttle, I said, I see you didn't. You didn't like my penny? Yes. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you with that.

Anyway, he stops and starts talking to me about it. So somebody had stolen his penny smasher. Come to find out, Phil Luck knew where it was. It was in New York somewhere. And, so that's what he was mad about when somebody stole his. He was the first guy I tattoo show up to have a penny smasher. Oh, shit. And so he wasn't upset with us for coffee and his idea?

I didn't know he had Penny's measure. I was still got one anyway, but, It was. It was pretty funny just watching his face, and I was like, wonder what? Wonder what pissed him off about the penny smash? You just passed away a couple of years ago. Why did they just. Oh, must be there, like an anniversary post or something. I don't know why.

I'd. Yeah, because I like total. Yeah. Someone's running his, count. Okay. Yeah. I makes it look like he. Sometimes you wonder if he's like.

Yeah. Like, how's your body doing with tattooing over the years? You rest. You were having issues with your carpal tunnel and then his elbow. My. Yeah. My hands always ache. That's never going to stop my ass.

My hands right back hurts right now. Yeah. No doubt. I should I should be switching to those, like, pen. Yeah. You know, I just can't really. Okay. Yeah.

I can't get the hang of them. Yeah. Dude, I got one of those little skinny pens I guess it's awesome. Found them. I just bought some because it was weird. Yeah, it was like a Chinese manufacturer. I'm a skinny. It's a it's a tattoo machine.

Only like this fucking big. It's so weird. How is it? The tattoo on the fucking wrist due to three hours, just nonstop. It has the little battery pack. The plugs are. You know, you can get any RCA plug in the back, and then you wrap it and. And the damn things like just the battery pack kind of rests right here.

It's unbelievable. It's pretty weird. It's it's it makes no noise. Yeah. I don't fucking even the rotary machines are anywhere. I went straight from coil machine to this little pin. No, I tried one other, I use them like the Blitz rotaries and, neo tat rotaries and the shag belts. I'll use those for years, and I really like those.

That was my first kind of step away. You know why I didn't use those? It made me mad when I'd walk into the shop and it got quiet. Yeah. Fucking hate it. Still this day we have one guy that use coils, and I just like, a warm blanket feeling. You know what I'm like. And thank him every.

Yeah, I walk through there, I'm like, Josh, I love the sound of the. Yeah, I fucking hate when it's slow or it feels slow. Everyone can be tattooing and it feels fucking dead. I'm like, yeah. Or. And then people got their headphones on. It's just like the newer kind of thing. I'm like, that's artists.

But the, you know, like even the clients, like they'll come in and put their headphones on and look at their, I don't really like, sound like a tattoo convention when you walk into the shop. And it was. Yeah. Oh, from noon until fucking midnight. Know. Yeah. All that. Pretty much everybody in the shop still use coils, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I occasionally get, like a guest that'll come through on how they use the pen. The old dildo you like. You almost like you're cautious because you don't want to bump into their table or whatever. Because you don't you forget to their tattoo. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't know if they're pulling a line right. I did I do have a pen that I tried a few times and I worked on this dude's back the other day. But they're like, got quite a bit of work with this. With them. Yeah. Look, it's just a man. Yeah, yeah, it you just fuck the car. It was the.

I was giving it. Yeah, just doing it. It's like I don't feel like. Because I was just packing solid. Yeah. Was fast. So that was. That was easy.

And I saw I healed recently like oh that actually worked out. Yeah. But like trying to whip I can't get the hang of that. And line work is fucking I don't know every time. Yeah yeah I do, I do took right to it. I love that thing. Yeah I didn't I want to try it on anybody. So I have this, guy that I'm an attorney that I tattoo in exchange for legal work.

You know, and I called him up and said, hey, you want to own a free tattoo? I want to try this machine, and I don't want to try. I've tried it on myself, but I don't wanna try it on anybody else until I, you know, try it out. So he had this rocket piece. Real cool. Traditional, but not the. The piece was. I did a traditional, but I with the thing out did it in about two hours.

Pretty good sized piece on his thigh. And I looked at it. I was like, that thing looks awesome. I wonder how it's going to heal. Yeah. I said, okay, let me know, you know, send me a picture in a couple of weeks. So when it heals four days later, it's frickin healed. And he goes, this thing is unbelievable.

It still looks just amazing. Weird. How does it how does it work? Did you ever get into building tattoo machines? No, but I did. Even with Ryan, I helped, down in the in our garage. Yeah, he was building machines. I've.

I think I've touched, like, helped make every part of a machine. Yeah, but not the whole. Just something that never really boils and. Yeah. Yeah, that's a fun process to go like that. Yeah. For a couple. Right.

The. I never build machines, but, Travis. Travis in Florida. Yeah. Crazy. I don't know how to pronounce this cage machines again. We had this fight. Fight?

Ring bell. I don't know if you've seen it in our shop, but it's a, you know, it was in a in a school or. Oh, okay. Yeah. At the boxing ring bell. They kind of like one of these. But yeah it was fucking huge. It's pretty run.

I found it at an antique store somewhere or something. And Travis goes, let's, let's rebuild that thing and make it run. Let's look. Yeah, that'd be cool. So I helped him do that, help me wrap the coils and stuff on it. Giant coils. They're like this big around this layer. And, but I have a little button under the counter in there.

You can just push the button and ring the bell. That's awesome. And it just is way cool. Yeah, yeah, it was fun. A fun little project. That's my only experience with wrapping coils of what people do. But I never did it myself. Yeah.

Shit, man, I don't I don't want to keep you all day, but, I'm just like, I was just real pumped to sit down with you and, thank you for taking the time. Yeah, thanks for having me. And, I don't know, man. Anything else you want to tell us? He will drop some knowledge on some, young tattooers. Have fun. Yeah. Be my only advice.

I wouldn't I wouldn't do anything different enough. Yeah, and a lot of fun and tattooing and everything. I guess the vice, I would say is what Roger says. Take care of tattoo and tattoo will take care of you. Yeah, because, you know, none of us deserve this. It's so great, dude. You just take care of it, and it'll. It'll take care of it.

Yeah, yeah. If you're doing something you like, it's like being a musician or whatever. You're doing something you like. You probably could do it forever, you know? Yeah. The hands may be given out. I don't know, my hands hurt, but not as much as when I was tattooing older. Yeah, they still hurt.

Yeah. I figure maybe, maybe start shading with that. Yeah. Weird ass you should try doing just. Yeah, yeah, I'll bring mine by and let you borrow it if you want. Yeah, yeah. You could do his tattoo with it. Yeah I know, yeah.

So. Well, shit. How does everybody find you? Were, just on Instagram, buddy. Holiday? Yeah. It's downtown tattoo Las Vegas. I think it's all I have is Instagram.

So. Yeah. Downtown tattoo, Las Vegas, downtown tattoo. Henderson. Yeah. Instagram. Yeah. So you have three different Instagram.

So you can have mine and then the two shops. Yeah. Yeah. Well thank you dude, I appreciate it. You're somebody that I've always admired in our city and just I absolutely love your shops. And I can't wait to come back down there. I want to do some, like, video stuff walking through and everything. Thank you.

Yeah. Really cool time. Yeah. I'll actually have to show you all the the old flash. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you've seen it, but it's probably just blends in with like, everything else. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Well, thank you guys for tuning in. Really appreciate all the support. Everything. Like jump on there, subscribe, do all the things. If you could have greatly appreciate it. We, we're not having a good time doing this. And we're coming up on almost, like 20 episodes of 20. Something episodes.

So, we're trying to fine tune it and put a little more out there and, just so grateful that, like so many fantastic tattooers have been able to come by and sit down with us. So thank you guys and have a good one. All right. Peace.

I worked right there in that front booth in the window. it was the best reality show you've ever seen. Fuck, dude. don't know how many times I got flash tits, by the way. that. That's great. Tuesday? You would just hear Around. And you just. see some random chick from Nebraska showing her fucking huge tits. And I'm just like, great day. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like is happening? Today on the podcast, Jason Paxman from Bad Apple Tattoo and producer of laughter de Saint comedy. Holy shit.

Dude, I quit comedy that night. I legit was like, I'm not doing that again. I don't need that embarrassment. I do that enough to myself. I don't need other people doing it to me. We talk old Vegas tattoo shop stories. Wild street shop chaos. How tattooing has changed over the years and so much more. I almost got stabbed by a black homeless guy that we called the tree. He had, like, a butcher knife, like this big dude. We told them we're like, hey, man, you got to leave. And he, like, wouldn't leave.

Just. Never. Plus, we're joined once again by the great Phil Luck Brooklyn, New York tattooer. You've seen him in the covers, in history books and tattoo magazines over the years. He is now relocated and here in Las Vegas. I'm Austin Spencer, and this is support your local tattooer. Welcome, everyone. To support your local tattooer. This is Austin Spencer. We are back tonight up in the warehouse at the Maverick. Spot. We got the, Let's see. We got Phil Lux in the fucking house.

Let me say hi. No. Hello. He's a sign language. This is a videos. Get the fucking filtering into a mime over here today. And we got my good buddy Jason Paxman in the house. And I am so pumped to be here tonight. Dude, we're going to go over some fun shit. And I don't know, man, like, let's get it fucking rolling. Rolling. So what's up Jason? How are you dude. I'm fantastic man. Fuck yeah. be life and but you know, you got to take it in stride. Anyway. Yeah. So fucking. Hey, dude, I just wanted to have you in.

I know you've been doing some really cool shit lately. I've been watching you. I've known you for a very long time. But now you're doing some real cool shit on the side outside of your tattoo, and you've got. I just went the other night to, the Church of Laughter Day. Saints, which is pretty fucking awesome comedy confessional. And it's a silly idea that really, that's all it was at first was just a I love puns. I've always been goofy, you know, Yeah, yeah, I have to go for fun.

Yeah, addicted to making people laugh, so it's just in my wheelhouse. So that's just how my brain works. Driving around one day, the name kind of came to mind. I have to write that down. The whole idea kind of just sort of fell into my lap. I wasn't even thinking about producing shows yet, just because I've only been doing standup for about a year and a half now. One of the hardest things I've ever done, by the way. And I filmed fought people in a ring in front of strangers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

like I've. I've done it, like, over 100 times and still to this day, like, I get nervous doing it. Yeah. It's a fun, exciting feeling. But. So anyways, the, is it the crowd? Is it the crowd that's getting you? Is it just standing? the women's underwear. He wears women's underwear. And it's just it's really just getting to him. the halter tops. Boost. Yeah. Sorry. Oh. Well, Yeah, all three of us together, but no, like, so just performing in general, like, I, I take it seriously.

Which I know sounds funny when you're doing comedy, but, like, I, I really respect the craft, and I think that's what hindered me from doing it for so long, because now that I'm doing it, I look back and I'm like, the signs were always there. Like right at every point I'm like, dude, I was meant to be a fucking yeah, yeah, it's not that it's not. It's not like it's just coming to me naturally, but it just I feel like there's a lot of it that just feels natural Yeah. Like, this is just who I am.

Yeah. It's fun. dude, you're fucking funny. And it's it's landing. Well, you Right? I think you you I mean, you build up a lot of confidence over the years. I don't know if I mentioned you are a tattoo or you've been a tattoo or for a long time, you know, you forget and I think tattoo. Yeah. I think tattooing perfecting your craft. Non-Customers. Yeah, yeah. the thing is, like, you know, the the tattoo shop is a lot like a barber shop, Yeah, like a black barber shop. We're in there just chopping it up, Yup.

Real shit, but like keeping it light and funny and kind of taking digs at each other. Yeah, exactly. little bit of a thick skin. And in standup, you have to, like, have even thicker of a skin Yeah. like, you'll have a great set one night, do literally the same thing the next night somewhere else, and get next to No shit. Feel like, fucking total. Yeah, like I don't, guess I don't know how to do anything anymore. So. Yeah. Like fucks with you mentally and like it Yeah, I would imagine, It even started to like, affect my mentality towards tattooing.

I started getting imposter syndrome like crazy. Like it it was like this total unraveling. I was not really to like, basically be doing therapy in a way. Yeah, that's kind of what it is, you know? But you still have to try to keep it funny. And there's definitely some nights where I'm on stage and I'm like, whoops, that was a little too therapeutic and a little less funny. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. feeling it, but no, I mean, it's, It's fun, I love it, and it's. I've done a lot of drugs.

You know, I'm sober now, but like, almost every drug. And this is by far the best. It's, bullshit. Total bullshit. I don't know. Yeah, I haven't tried stand up, but I did do a lot of Molly and mushrooms all in one night at EDC for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get to, like, really, really push yourself obviously and get fucking. And so have you had some really good nights where you just get roasted like, well bomb. Oh dude I yeah the fucking worst. So like, I do a lot of material about how I look yeah, like a lot of times people will just assume that I'm a skinhead, you know?

Yeah. lot of, like, what I joke and talk about. And I did a show in Pahrump Pahrump. Yeah. Not ideal to be like, yeah, I'm not. And they're like, oh, yeah, this motherfucker. 12 minutes of me just doing my routine and just bombing, you know, like I got a couple chuckles here and there over some silly stuff, but like, it was by far the worst show I've had. Like one of the comedians, like a few people after me, his first like 3 to 5 minutes of his set was just roasting me all really on the same bill.

It's kind of what you do. Yeah. It's like a it kind of helps you in a way like I, it was like I just I wasn't ready to hear too soon. hold it in. And, you know, Donna, my wife, she's like, super protective. yeah. She's like, what the fuck he saying about you? She's like, I don't like that. Yeah, that's cool, babe. right. that drive home from Pahrump Yeah. back to Vegas Yeah, the longest, I, yeah. dude, like I, I quit comedy that night. Yeah. It was like, I'm not doing that again.

Yeah, I don't need that embarrassment. I do that enough to myself. I don't need other people doing it to me. Would you you to like that first night of or, you know, going out to do the open mic What would that had to have been nerve wracking as fuck was I mean, it was, and then even right now, like, thinking about it, I have that same yeah. in my chest. It's wild. But basically, like, I mean, you know, like, we're in tight quarters when we tattoo, and it's like a barbershop, so we're just talking shit all day, and, like, yeah, if I have people around me that encourage it, it's almost like my brain's like, oh, let's fucking go.

Yeah, yeah. Is on overdrive. Yeah. Because like I said, it's like a drug. I get addicted to making people laugh because to me, there's nothing better than that. Like, that's the best feeling in the world. Making a group of people laugh because you feel like you break the tension. It's cool, you know? Yeah, So just me being me, joking around, having people being like, dude, you should do standup. Yeah, buddy Tom Vincent, he tattoos in Nashville now, but he used to work at Bad Apple Killer Tattoo or one of my homies.

He's been that, like, voice in my ear, like, Oh, cool. You need to be standing. Yeah. you hear that enough. And then you start kind of going, yeah, I am, I am a comedian, you know, and then like, you know, you're around your friends, you're like, I'm a fucking comedian, you Like, actually, like, I think I am. Then you hear podcast people talking about their situations, way they approach comedy and things. And I'm like, I feel like they're talking about me. You know? It just Yeah, par for who I am.

Then I was like, I feel like this is the universe being like, hey, you should really try this out. Yeah. And like, he was tapping a comedian one time, and at the time, I didn't know it. I'm being me being silly. She chimes in and goes, oh, he's funny. And Tom's like, hey, did you hear that? She said, you're funny. And I was just like, okay, yeah, she's a comedian. And I was like, oh, for real? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, oh, really? She's like, yeah. She's like, do you do standup?

And I was like, now she's like, you should Oh! So I was like, all right. So again, having a couple of these encounters with people sort of reinforces that. And then like once you kind of start thinking about doing something and then it's all of a sudden it's, you know, it's like it's that confirmation bias, like you get a new car and it's like a Dodge Challenger. Yeah. everywhere you go, you're like, man, there's a lot of Dodge challengers Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all it's like it's you're thinking yeah it's and you're.

Yep. And again, so it's like, I feel like there's, you know, I'm gonna get all hippie here for a second, know I get so many different things being a creative person that there's like this constant stream of things that we can do. And it's just if you want to tune in and pay attention to it or not. it's like, yeah, I was like, oh fuck, dude. Like, I, I have like all those flaws of a comedian. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. A lot of trauma builds that funny. And so like that makes sense to me.

it's a long play like you I mean you get up there and you, it's not like you I how many comedians just crush it right out of the gate. It's like takes a lot of exercise. Right. Like were winning like oh shit. Right out of the gate. Like a couple of shows in. You will win in shit. 11th performance, I, was stupid enough You again agree to do this comedy competition. And, my friend Kay Banks, she's awesome. She saw me on another show and was like, who are you? Where did you come from?

Like, you are fucking hilarious. And so just having a lot of that, like confirmation early on helped build again. I think it just sort of, supported what I felt about like I'm onto something here, like, there's something here. Yeah. so they would see something. I mean, then they would like, oh shit, let's put them on other stuff. So like my fourth or fifth show, I was booked on a regular show that wasn't an open mic and paid, Oh fuck. Yeah. and because of being on that show, she saw me on one of my other times hosting that show.

And because of that, she's like, yo, you need to be in this competition. And I was like, I don't think I'm ready for that, Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't like cocky like that because it's it's like this roller coaster of being like, dude, I'm crushing you. Yeah. And then like, literally two days later, that high wears off and you're like, why did I agree to do this again? I'm terrified. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just being a, I don't know, I was all I was, actually, I don't know if I want to switch it, but I was just kind of interested too.

And like, the difference of, like, it sounds like you played, like, slightly larger rooms and then really small, intimate shows. And so the very first time I did it, I know we kind of bounced around here, but like so eventually, like I was talking with one of my good friends and a client of mine and she was like, I've always wanted to do stand up too. And I was like, well, I'm going to be a comedian. Okay, yeah, let's do it together. She ran an animal shelter out here for a while, like an animal rescue.

And, she's like one, you know, months go by and then she hits me up one day and was like, hey, remember our agreement? I was like, fuck yeah, I do, you know? And she's like, well, I'm putting together this, charity show to raise money for my dogs. I'm going to call it comedy for canines. And I Oh, cool. Yeah. And she's like, I want you to be on the show. I'm like, I'm not a comedian. yeah, like, that would be a good place. Oh, yeah. I was like, well, I love dogs, so I couldn't say no to that.

But I also felt like it'd be a safe spot to do it because, you know, how long of a set that you have to come up with for this. Okay. and that's a lot, right? Like a five minutes. No. Yeah. I mean, it was it was five minutes, but it wasn't like I talked the whole time. I didn't get like some people will freeze up or they'll like get tripped up. That's what I would do a little too fast. I was a little too excited. Dude. Slow down. And then the other thing too is like, I thought when I got up there that I could just like have notes or like a couple jokes written and then just riff on it.

Yeah, But I had never been on stage Yeah. Yeah. One of those things that like, it's a skill that I'm having to learn it. Yeah, no, for sure, it's the same skill set is like talking shit in the shop. Doing that on stage is different because. Yeah, and like, I could kind of hear the laughs, but I was so nervous and so caught up in myself. And what was happening that I couldn't focus on what was going on. I couldn't really have fun that first time. Yeah. movie theater like downtown cinemas or whatever.

They converted one of those spaces into like an event space. So it's like one of those, like, movie theaters, like a medium sized movie theater with like a couple booths and chairs set up. And Yeah. Oh, I don't know what the total count was. I think there might have been about 100 people or so in there, but it was. It's a decent amount of people to perform for when you've never done it before. I, I feel like every room would be like a it's kind of like tattooing there's and everybody's skin is different.

So you could do that same skull every day on a different person. You're going to get a different reaction out of it. So I'm assuming every room A it's different people in there. The I don't know just isn't there. Like feels and of a of a room, you know that like That's why I like when they talk about like reading the room, you know, it's like it's easier said than done Yeah. something that you have to kind of learn by doing the craft over and over and over again and seeing what works and why and what doesn't.

And you'll think that you're doing something the same way, but it'll be the littlest bit of like a pause or you slowed down your wording or you didn't, like trip over this set up right here. It was real crisp and clean, like all of those things Yeah. Everything matters. And so as soon as you get that all figured out, pieces all come together and you can have more fun on stage. But like, until then, it's hard to riff. It's hard fucking do that sound. Yeah. Then there's like the old Mitch Hedberg joke where he says, you can't keep all the people happy all the time.

And all those people were at my show last Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Those people show up on my shows, So how, like how you read the room to like I said, it's just doing those repetitions and like, you know, I've learned that there's a way to deliver that material. Still. You just have to approach it Yeah, you have to like the way that the I guess the biggest thing that helped me to really like reach sort of that next step to where I'm getting better at it and getting better at a quicker rate, is you have to treat the audience like you're having a conversation, Yeah.

Connect with them. Yeah. You want to take them on a journey, they want to trust you, and then you want to pull the rug out underneath them. Yeah, that's the surprise. Yeah. you trust you, as soon as you pull the rug out, you're like, you motherfucker, you're still standing, up. mean? It's like they see it coming. So it's like you can dance around touchy issues. Like, I'll talk a lot about race stuff Yeah, because I deal with it. But I approach it in a way that's like very light hearted, but also like pointing out, like the ridiculousness of you.

What's happening in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Do you physically, like, sit down and write or like, you know. Yeah. Because, like. Yeah. I was just wondering, like how you put content. I don't know how to fucking do it any crazy. So at first I was like, I don't know how to translate doing this Yeah, yeah. be like, I'll remember that. And now I realized to start writing shit down is I had a client one day, like messaged me after my appointment with them, and they were like, top three favorite things you said today.

And it was like just the most random, ridiculous, silly shit. You know? Like, Subaru owners definitely snort granola. Okay. So then you can so then you just you take that. It's like a lead. Yeah. I'm going to. It's funny, like, I'm, it's a one liner. I'm going to just write that down. And at some point you might be able to use that or Like one night at one of the mics, one of the comedians was talking about how they had a Subaru and they like, we're talking about doing drugs and kind of being a hippie.

And I was like, yeah, like, you seem like the type that would snort granola Yeah, it landed. And it was like something that, like I had already wrote, but it seemed like it was in the moment. But it was just popped into the index. That's cool. like, I will try to actually I have a couple different notebooks that I have, ones like more of a smaller like handmade joke book Yeah. like, write down stuff that's like actually landing and working Okay. kind of like use that as, like the, the Bible, you Yeah.

then I have more of like a journal, if you will. We're all just literally like try and approach like, okay, how would I say myself if I want to do these topics and I try to write it out exactly how I would say it, Well, I don't necessarily try to duplicate that on stage. But the more you write like that, and the more you just get your brain going, the more you just like physically write. It helps to kind of promote those ideas and just make you funnier and approach things from a more creative, different I feel like I feel like having tattooing in your arsenal, as well as a huge training ground, like you could try that shit out instead of trying it out on stage in front of a crowd full of people.

You could try it out in a shop and and see how it lands. So again, another one that was you got to read the room The, there's definitely times where like, you know, especially if I've had a bunch of good shows and they've been going well, my brain gets on overdrive and it wants to keep working. Yeah, at the shop and I'll be joking. And it gets to a point where I'm like, I probably shouldn't be saying this. This is a tattoo shop, not a comedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people get fucking upset Yeah.

No, I'm still so know for sure is still like a touchy thing. And so you have to read the room and be careful. You know? But, Yeah. My material sometimes, but you have to try it again. And it's like a lot of times, I mean, the communities for your ad people will come up to you and be like, hey, have you thought about trying it? This way? Or they'll give you a tag? Oh that's fun. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Or they'll be like, hey, you know, even something as simple as being like, hey, man, you've got something there.

Like there's something funny there. I don't know where where it is, but you're close. Just keep digging. And at the time you're like, what the fuck does that even mean? Like, but that's just it. Sometimes you go on stage and you don't necessarily try to duplicate the way you say things, Yeah, get in the habit of like, oh, well, the last two times I said this exactly this way, it got a great response. You try that somewhere else, and instead of reading the room and letting them kind of help guide you, yeah, you're going to start bombing.

pivot. And yeah, stuff that you learn by doing it over and over. You have some good mentors or like, you know, like somebody there's a lot of people, I guess, in the scene, you know, that are just, really helpful. Yeah. he's one of them. He he started the show, tequila a little time. Las Vegas is their show. Yeah. They unfortunately, that restaurant just closed, so their shows no longer. But. Yeah, he was the first person after seeing me at that very first show that I did. I performed with him on that show for the charity event.

He had reached out to me and told me to come check out his show, and I was like, I kind of feel like this is a sign. You know? I was telling Dan. I was like, I feel like this is a sign. If a comedian reaches out for you to come check out Yeah, think that they want you to maybe be on it at some point. So I was like, I'm going to go, you know, I want to support it too. So I went and checked it out and he's like, so what do you think? Do you want to be on the show? And I was like, fuck yeah.

And I was like, I'm not really a comedian. Okay, so dude, stop that. He's like, you're a fucking comedian. You're you're funny. He's like, if you weren't, I wouldn't have asked you to come. And I wouldn't ask you to be on my show. So I end up being, like I said, the fifth time, I think I did stand up. I did his show and I was booked on. And that night he didn't tell me where he was going to put me on. And because I had a lot of people that came out to support, which is also rad like people have been super supportive of me doing this.

And that's the other thing where tattooing is helpful, too? Yeah. So I had like a real deep. Yeah. I mean, and I think that that was also what helped us, on was like, bring some people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was kind. I showed up and was kind because that's I was respectful and I wanted to be treated the same way. is the community, is the tattoo community or, sorry, the comedian community, kind of similar to like kind of the old school tattoo community where there was like a lot of slop in it and a mess.

And like, people didn't show up and stuff, I mean, or like, obviously I've only been in kind of a smaller. Yeah, yeah. in some of the local clubs a bit. So I'm only scratching the surface Yeah. I mean, you're very young to it a lot like tattooing. There's, there's cliques, Yeah. some people that want a gatekeepers, other people that want to help out. Community is pretty rad out here, but there are a couple people that yeah, kind of turds and they just stick together. And it's it's hard at first to not get affected by that.

But yeah, do just have to remember that you're not performing for them. Exactly three or 4 or 5 or. Yeah, that are in that click that you don't like or don't like, you, you only see them a few times. If there's like a couple people that have never seen your stuff, even though they've seen it before and they hate it, Yeah, yeah. That's what happens. Yeah. You those are those little motivation moments that you're like, okay, fuck, I am funny, Yeah, yeah. They're putting yourself out there on the internet and stuff too.

You know, it's like, you know, like somebody is going to see you maybe that you don't have a great relationship with or whatever. But once you get over that shit and you just put it out there for because you know that that energy is inside you, I just need to get it out. It feels right. Fuck it. That's like all you can do, dude. Have a good ass day. Yeah. that first, comedy battle or not battle, the comedy Rumble, which was a competition single round elimination. You're going against people like I like I said, at that time, I'd only done it 11 times.

I've only been doing it for a couple months. And, I ended up winning, and I, I had maybe eight minutes of material. You have to start out with a brand new minute. You've never done anywhere. Oh, well. Okay. Yeah, it with friends, but it's it's head to head. So like one person versus one person, and whoever wins goes to the next round. And then you do three whatever material crowd gets to vote. And then from there the winners go, you know, elimination. Then it's five minutes versus five minutes, and whoever wins that gets to close the show by doing ten minutes.

Oh my God. Okay, that's an exhausting night, dude. I'm emotional. I had about eight minutes. Like three minutes were solid. The five minutes after were a you. Know, I was it was fun, but awful. Yeah, I bet I even joked about it. But it was it was a good experience because you're up there and you just have to remember in that moment that that room already likes you. That's why you're there. Yeah. Yeah. at a point where, like some of the people are leaving because they're like, all right, I, you know, I've seen enough of him.

Yeah, yeah. All right, I get the gist. We can go now. Yeah. but then, like, it's cool because like, you're, you're almost more comfortable because, you know, even though you have those nerves before you go up, as soon as you get offstage, if your set goes remotely. Well, there's like, you feel great, you're almost a little cocky. You feel like amped up. You know, if you're goes good. Yeah. jacked. So like going up multiple times in a night. I think it's kind of a better thing.

Almost. Yeah. As long as you're. By the time I hit that five minute set, even though it wasn't super tight like I was home with it Yeah. Play around with it. That makes sense. Yeah. Just get some nerves chilling. I think I just had a lot of friends there. You know? Team Ninja showed up Yeah, yeah. Bunch of other tattooer buddies of ours. But yeah, like, because of that, I actually was on this other podcast and a tattooer in our community that I will not name, Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Totally catching strays from this person. And I didn't know because I don't like I didn't really wasn't aware that I was following them. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, like, I see something, and I was like, am I a story? And I was like, what is this? You know, because I didn't post very much. Yeah. And in the story it had mentioned me and they were basically like mimicking my clip that I had posted online Well, jeez, you heard it there. Yeah. That's some fucking tattooing. Like, the funny thing to me about it was like, at first I was kind of offended, but like two things.

One, they said that, you know, my wife Donna. So Donna was happy about that. Yeah. I, I got over real quick was like, they had basically, like, rehearsed my whole set. Whoa. Yeah, yeah, they took all this time out of their evening to, like, I'm taking up space in your right. Yeah. space in mind. Like you came out of nowhere and it was like, at no point did it in this podcast that I did. Did I claim to be the first tattooer doing comedy Yeah. Any of that stuff? Yeah. I'm super humble about what I do.

Like there's this fine line of like, I'm trying to own it and be like, yeah, I'm funny and I'm good at what I do, but also like, I'm new and I'm learning and I'm humble. You know, there's that fine line and then you get this from someone who's like, oh, you're not the first person to do tattoos in comedy. And like, oh geez. Yeah, anything, post and post and like tagging me and stuff Good lord, they're coming after you. That's fun. That's weird to me. The more you put yourself out there, though, the more likely it is happen like that.

And, I think it's just like, yeah, you know, just like tattooing, there's, any community, think that they're better than other For me, I don't ever want to, like, have that mentality. I refuse to be that way. Yeah. we I feel like we all grew up with bullies, like people look at me, well, not getting bullied. And I was like, I got hold. Of the fence. Yeah, yeah. No no, no, it's these are my thorns. Yeah, I know it. Well, one thing I learned about the tattoo industry. Well, growing up, like when we were, when it, when I grew up, like, you don't just go out there and talk shit like that unless you're ready to fucking go.

Go to the parking lot. So it's funny to me when really when people like, get up there and they say, and especially you, your biggest fuck and you train. So it's like, how fucking dumb are you to people just never think that it's going to go there or I don't know. Yeah. It like not that it would, but you know, everybody's been pretty cool. There's there's only a handful of people that have had weird encounters with. But I just try to shake it off and just Yeah, if you just look at it like that's a problem that they have and it's something that like they're seeing something in me that they don't like, and it's a reflection of them Yeah.

projecting. And so if you kind of approach it like that and try not to let it get to you, just put your head down and keep doing work and do the right things, you're going to go further than they are Hey, a quick pause. If you're a tattoo artist than you already know you can't afford to gamble on your supplies, right? That's exactly why we built Maverick Supply Co to give artists access to quality cartridges. Shop essentials gear they can actually rely on. So if you want supplies to be one less thing to worry about in your shop, scan the QR code on the screen.

Hit the link below the show notes and use the code S, y, Lt for 10% off. Now back to the show. I saw this tattoo where he was. He knew where to do in content and stuff, and he was real into it. And he was trying. And it's it looks really nice. And, he was getting fucking roasted, dude, in the comments, you know, just getting roasted. Yeah. And I was like, I looked at it and I was like, I see your vulnerability. I see what you're doing. It's fucking hard. Like, I'm on the internet all the time fucking running my mouth.

And I feel dumb doing it, but it is what it is. And we got something to tell people. So, but anyway, he was getting roasted and his only comment back to this one dude that was just digging into him. He's like, who hurt you, bro? And I just my wife and I use that all the time now. Like, who are you, bro? Like, why are you so fucking mad? Like, it's just a fucking people on the internet doing shit like, get the fuck on. Yeah, yeah. Who hurt you, bro? Oh, post, it's straight to the comments Good.

going to get better on Instagram. No, I heard it's nasty over there. I thought Instagram was bad for the comments section. Threads is just fucking That's what I heard. I never go over there like people will post and ask like, hey, what's this? And like expecting to get like a helpful Yeah, they're like dumb fuck like roast you've ever You like five swipes, There's just 45 people all talking shit I wonder what it is. It's like as soon as it turns to text only. It's just basically the whole forum is the comment section.

Yeah. It was just too, but like, it's definitely more like how Twitter X or whatever fuck you want to call. It's more like that okay. Yeah. I had a grown man call me a dork on Instagram this week. I was like, I prefer nerd, but like, you know, fucking it is what it is from fucking. I cut down a tree or some shit and I videoed it. And then I was just, like, went crazy in the comments of, like, you fucking dork. And I was like, oh dang. you want to get depressed, quick, post something personal on social media.

Where do you stand up? Yeah, yeah, I would think so, man. Like, yeah, I fucking, tried to, I tried I it was only my second time I spoke at this all women's tattooer conference, which is an emotional room, you know, like, I don't know what it is, and you just stand in front of, like, 45 women and you just feel like, oh, I'm going to fucking cry at any time. Yeah. And my wife was crushing it during the thing, and her friend was crushing it. And then it came to my part and I was all, words on the screen, you know, it's like, I can't even imagine how hard it is to, like, remember content.

I was just trying to read in front of people, and I was like, this is hard Yeah. Well, an even when you remember your set, like, that's where it's tough to like when you first start, you obviously don't have a whole lot of content to do. And so a lot of it is trying to do the same thing over and over again. But then you'll have people being like, hey, try saying it, try saying other stuff, that's cool, I want to, but I don't know what I'm doing here, you know? So you're trying to figure it out and, you know, as you're working it out and doing it, you kind of figure things out along the way and you get better at it.

And, you know, just kind of builds from Yeah. And the helpful community is it's always just great to have it, even if it's just two people that, you know, genuinely give a fuck about your presence and you like moving forward. If they're just in that audience, it'll kind of out power like that energy is really what you need in a show. Yeah. if you're like reacting, like if I say something and you're like gasping or like groaning, that's a response. like yeah. You know yeah sometimes that adds to the show.

That's part of it, you know what I mean? But like, I would rather someone do that than just not hear anything, Yeah. Oh it's like that's got to be terrifying. especially when, like, you hit a punch Yeah I usually get laughs there, and then all of a sudden you're like. What? I fucking love going to comedy shows. It was a great time seeing you the other night. And you, you do hold yourself very well and confident and, you command a presence. It's great. Dude, it was really fun.

And it just felt really natural. Like to watch you there. Not just because I knew you, like, just the way that you just held your own in the room was fun. definitely one of those things where, like, I'm sure it's a cliche, but fake it til you make, you know? Yeah, inside you're peeing and diarrhea. Helps because you're going, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. think now that I'm hosting this show that I'm producing and hosting, with a co-host and Yeah, cut lip, with that show, because it's That's Willie's wife.

Yeah, it's Willie's life. Oh my God. Okay, even six degrees of separation. Yes. Yeah. Together. Willie cut lip a great tattoo where I pronounced him actually, like, a very long time ago. That's wild. I didn't put those two together. think that because it's our show and it's, you know, you go into it being like, this is my show. People are here to see me. You know, like you have to have a little bit of that kind of confidence and cockiness to command that presence. And if you're authentic about it and you're really putting it out there, the audience can feel that.

And so in a weird way, you're kind of acting, but you're acting like yourself, just like a more confident, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like if you just drink and did a couple lines yeah, you're like the fucking get your motor running. influences? Who are your comedy influences? man. People always ask me that. And it's so all over the place, like, I definitely can't name like Yeah. number one just because, like, even with well there's so many different styles of you're in love with you.

Yeah. And I think that part of, like, what makes you good at anything is being able to appreciate it for what it is and the nuances and the different aspects of it. Like for tattooing, for example, I started out doing kind of a traditional neo traditional Yeah. And now I do more, dude, yeah, I was just saw that full back piece you'd posted the other day with some biomass mixed in two plus like this. It looked so good. Yeah, it was like, really fucking sick, dude. example. That's a blend of different styles that you learn over time.

Yeah, and I haven't. I personally haven't seen anybody like collectively put together like one piece that had biomass and this like metal fucking black and gray like. Yeah. Why I wanted to do that as I wanted to throw that out there and do stuff that I would want to get tattooed on me, or just stuff that I haven't seen yet. Because just like comedy, just like anything, it's hard to come up with something new. So that's where that comes in, is having an appreciation from so many different things, be it tattooing or comedy.

And I'm able to kind of keep the train on the tracks this time. And remember the question, Yeah, yeah. That's called the callback. Right. Okay. I don't think that is, you know, but I'm trying to not distract you. Sorry. now. But I love everything. Like growing up, you know, as a kid, like doing comedy now. It's like making me go through a lot of my memories Yeah. you know, doing, like I said, it's unraveling. I'm going through therapy in a way, actually doing therapy and doing this as therapy.

But a lot of those influences early on, you know, Pee-Wee Herman, yeah, like Mork and Mindy watching Robin Williams, you know, just people like that that were just so over-the-top silly, goofy It's amazing. Some Ace Ventura, some. Yeah. Yeah. My I just taught my son how to talk out of his butt cheeks. Yeah. Yeah. He hasn't stopped. Yeah. But like, everything from, like those guys that, you know, like, obviously like they're killers, that comedy, but they're not really known for their stand up there and Yeah.

acting like comedic acting roles. Those dudes. And then even, like, more new guys, like, currently, like Adam Ray is probably one of my favorites. I love him, he does a bunch of different impressions. He does Doctor Phil, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I had to, like, research. Who the hell he was because I, he was. Yeah, he was funny as fuck. his impressions, his improv, his stand up. He's goofy and silly, he can roast. He he's just. Yeah. so good at what he does that like I watched him at wiseguys and.

Oh really? like recently. Yeah. Like I forget when he came out and and did it, but like watching it, doing it now you watch it in a different lens. Yeah. watching him work like that, you know, you're like confident. You're like, oh, I've been doing good. You know. And then you go and you see someone like that do it and you're like, fuck yeah. That's so far away, you know? But like, he was just a master of his craft. It was a masterclass. Oh, that's so cool. Like he just did this whole bit where there was these guys in the audience and he, like, talked to them and made jokes along the way.

One about his other material came back and was like, you guys mind if I, A new joke that I just wrote today, and it's this whole made up improv joke about that group of dudes with all the details. They were accurate and it was funny, and it was in damn, yeah, to to see him do that and stumble as much as I do with, like trying to improv like that, that was just like, it almost makes you feel like, fuck, dude, how can I even get to that dude? The sort of sharpened, To make Doctor Phil funny, that's hard enough Yeah, yeah.

Like brilliant with it. Doctor Phil was on Doctor Phil Yes. Yeah. Hilarious. Yeah. a good sense of humor about the whole thing. He has to. Yeah. One of my favorite things too though, is like at this age I don't want to call us old, but there's not too many people that have the nuts to go out and try something. So incredibly new and put themselves in this incredibly vulnerable state, much less put it on stage with everybody's eyes like, I think it's a human. It's human nature to and essentially just be terrified of public speaking.

Right. And then you just all of a sudden you're like, fuck it, I'm I forgot how old you are. You're like 45. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a tattooer, if you went through a proper apprenticeship. But I'm stoked for you. And I feel like I'm like, you know, not that you need to, but I'm, like, proud of. It's just cool as fuck to see from a friend. I love when when people just get the fuck out there, push themselves. And that right there honestly, is like one of the most intimidating things to to just start.

I've always loved doing difficult things. So yeah, it's great. there's like something in me like, I just, I have, you know like ever. It's fucking trendy now for everyone to have anxiety. But like, again, I've learned a lot about myself. I'm like, okay, I've got ADHD know. Yeah. and like I'm like, this is why I'm kind of fucking neurotic. And if I do hard things, it kind of like sharpens that focus Yeah, yeah. I'm like quiet some of the distraction. I can totally see that. Yeah.

I mean, I mean, I see it. Yeah. Yeah. Learning things every day, you know, is. And are you and you and and you get, you know, we're even though we're older, we're still kind of impatient and, you know, like just learning something. And sometimes I'm just like, fuck, I just need to know this. But that's something doing comedy, too, that, like, I like to tell people because they're like, what's it been like starting out? And it's it's awesome. The risk is worth the reward. And like, yeah, you going.

But doing it, it's like going into high school. It's a new high school. Everybody's got their cliques. You're trying to figure out how to go to high school Yeah, yeah. It's your first first day of ninth grade. You got pushed up against the lockers. Yeah. Holy shit. Nike's. Yeah. Everybody knows the rules. Yeah, everybody's got their clicks. Yeah. And you got, like, you find yourself sometimes holding back because you like, I don't know, you don't want to offend, maybe a peer or something.

And then you have to. Not necessarily. Good. Yeah. anything, it's, I try not to, like, overstep my bounds with people, you know, because, like, you don't, you're still the new kid on the block. Yeah. It's like you're filling out that room at the same time. You're filling out the room. You're trying to perform, and. Right, I'm trying to see, like, what the proper way to approach to be like, hey, I would love to be a part of your show at some point, you know? But if that person kind of doesn't really know me, then they're like, why the fuck what I trust you to go up there?

Yeah, but you just got to show up support, put yourself where you want to be. You know, you you get to know them. They hear about you or they see you. Then that's how it happens. And I mean, honestly, like I try to show up in that space how I want to be treated. Yeah, super kind, super respectful. I'm there to have a good time. Like the world's fucked up. Yeah, we need to fight with ourselves? Like, that's we're here to make people right, right, right. Everyone's there Yeah, yeah, yeah.

thing that I don't understand about the comedy community. It's supposed to be a community. Yeah. It's a community. Yeah, I understand that to a degree, there is a certain amount of, like, competing for the same market, but at the same time, like is there, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like if you all, like, work together and keep the scumbags, whoever they may be, out of it, then the community is good and there is no issues. thing. All right, all right, all right.

Dropping it, dropping it like it's hot. So I also saw the, you you were starting to potentially go do comedy shows in other cities and mix it with guest spots, which I thought was cool as fuck. Yeah. Yeah, that was something I was kind of starting to work out and doing, the first time I went out and did it in LA, there was a few spots that just kind of fell through. And that's the other thing with comedy too, is that in comedy, like, there will be a room that'll be set up and they'll invite you out to do it, and then next thing you know, you'll have them hit you up and be like, hey, sorry.

Like that business is closed. Or like they don't want to do comedy there anymore. And so it ends up being like just a cancellation and you're like, okay, well, shit, I made plans for that. And so you plan for anything else. Yeah, I'm at that point where I'm not like, well enough established. I can just go hit someone up and get in. But Yeah. a few connections that can help, help get me into those to, like, like an open mic type setting or, like, kind of. Yeah. Because it's, you know.

Yeah, but out there you have to pay for your spots. So You want like a five minute spot, it's like ten bucks or five bucks or something like that, which is fine. I'd pay Yeah, yeah. you know, you're you're a lot of times you're showing up at these rooms and it's 30 comics or 20 You got to put in time. Yeah. are just waiting for their turn to talk. shit thing. But I like the concept. If you could go, like, you know, get, like, a good formula down the road, kill two birds, one stone.

You're out there doing a fucking couple of tattoos, and then at night, go get in on an any type of, like, comedy show or whatever. That'd be fucking rad, dude. it would work. Well, I mean, it's it's been working well for me right now. Doing comedy at night and tattooing during Yeah. That's cool. We have a we don't have to wake up too early. Yeah, yeah. but and I saw the opportunity there to like, go places that I know people do a little work, make some money and then, you know, tackle this on the side and try and, you know, build my material in a different room.

Yeah. It's just it is a little tricky sometimes just trying to get to know people and get in the industry. But the more I do it here, the more name I build for myself, and then the more that that ripples out into the comedy Yeah. What are some weird distractions that you've seen so far, like while you're on stage or something? Is there anything you're just like, do you like a glare? Like a nasty glare or a short skirt or something? You know, it's like, what the fuck? This is like fucking up my train of thought.

Yeah, yeah. Like play into that. Yeah. I like the first, in the comedy Rumble, when I won on the three minute round that I did, I was talking about being bald, that there was a dude in the front row, like, with his arms crossed, and he's like I see you. You're fucking. We balding has a cul de sac. So those moments work like if someone's glaring and it works in that moment, you can call it out. And it's funny. Yeah, that's not a distraction. And help them feel more comfortable with the whole experience.

Maybe. Or like, part of, like, reading the room, you know, like you can kind of like once you get comfortable, you can fuck around like that. But where it gets hard and like that's how you get better at it is by being like these dive bars. Yeah. When people just yell out random shit like heckling, you know? Yeah. that they're helping, that's a distraction, you know, yeah, you'll say something and before you even get to what you're talking about, because you use certain words or talk about a certain person or politician, all of a sudden now they're like, boo, you know?

I'm like, oh God, yeah, yeah. You know, it kind of throws you off. Yeah, I didn't even fucking say anything yet. You know, like I just said Biden or I just said Trump and you like. and it's not even And they had like a couple of whiskeys in them already or like, feel like right now has got to be the hardest time to be a comedian, because anything you say, somebody can take in the wrong context. And we all know everybody is just offended mad easy these days. So that's got to be hard.

Writing new material going what am I not gonna who am I not gonna offend with? But like that's the thing is that you have to approach it in a way that you're not trying to punch down, You know. Yeah. And like, again, people are going to, like, be offended because they're offended. And it's but the thing is, is it's not my job to manage your Yeah. my side of the street clean. You keep yours clean. If there's something that, like I'm saying, or any other comedian is saying and you don't like it, you don't have to laugh.

Yeah, yeah. Change the fucking channel like it's early up there. there's like a small portion of truth. Sometimes there's more truth, but it's a lot of times you're making shit up, like I'm trying to have a funny perspective, like you're exaggerating an idea, like you're like, hey, don't you guys think it's weird that this and this is going on? And people are like, yeah, that is kind of weird, but you're doing in a way that's like over the top that you're like shining a magnifying glass on it.

Yeah, it up and people just they can't get past the, the words that you're saying because they've been so programed to be upset and feel a certain way, tribalism that people are like subscribing to that, like, the thing is, is like those people like, they're fanatics, you know, like you're not going to. Yeah, exactly. And then nothing you're going to say you want to sit down and talk to somebody about like politics or religion or any of that stuff and like actually have a discourse if you're trying to, like, persuade the other person, you're you already lost.

Yeah, yeah. Is it approach conversations like that. They approach it like, I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm going to tell you why Yeah. Being like, hey, this is how I feel. You might not agree with it, but this is how I feel and why. How do you feel? And you go, well, I feel like this. And this is why it's like, that's crazy. I never thought about like that. That's how conversations should should go. Yeah. people get their ego involved and they get self-absorbed and they're so worried about like, stuck on their position.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm reading a book about that right now, actually, too seriously these days. That's why I'm doing comedy. So let's get into like a, let's get into you've been tattooing since 2002. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm terrible with how long it's been. I know, I know. Yeah, I did shop that it started. It started out in, woodland Hills. Body and Soul Tattoo. It's no longer there, I don't really, Yeah. It was it was rad. The the dude that I was learning from this guy Dana, he actually, was one of the ones that was like tattooing me regularly.

I'd gotten a couple tattoos at other shops and never really found, like, a spot that I found to be, like, home and just going there, like the vibe was different. It was down on Ventura Boulevard, and it was just a different shop than any of the other shops I'd been in. And so I went in there and he had done this rad BioMed sleeve on the piercer there, Nick Ennis. Yeah. I just remember seeing that thing and it was just fucking mind blown, you know? So I get tattooed by him and I would bring my sketchbook in like just being like, hey, these are just some ideas.

I have to get tattooed. And he like, wasn't a dick about it. He was like the first tattoo. Yeah, that's almost like how we. Yeah. Is like fully like show us cards, but like, he was the first person who was actually, like, genuinely like, interested, like, oh, shit. Like you drew these and I'm like, yeah. And he's like, oh, that's that's fucking cool. And like, he would do a lot of the tattoos that I wanted, like pretty close to the drawings. And so I was like, oh shit. Me again seemed like with comedy, maybe I've got something here, maybe I can be a tattoo.

Yeah, other tattooers before in the past when I was getting tattooed, like, oh, what would it take to be a tattoo? Or and I'm sure you guys remember what I was like. That was not a good nope, nope. And you learn that real quick. Yeah. and then finally, like, he's like, he he asked me one time, he goes, why didn't you never ask me to do an apprenticeship? Or why did you never ask me about tattooing? And I was like, honestly, I liked getting tattooed by you. And I didn't want to ruin the relationship because anybody had ever asked before that became super cold and like, would just like, didn't seem like they tried as hard on the tattoo or just would be very dismissive.

And for me, I'm like, I I would yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get that. I kind of brought that there. But like, again, like I didn't approach that situation with any ill will. Like I wasn't trying to open up a shop next door Yeah. Yeah. that's it's so weird to me that that's that mentality that that was, What do you think about tattooing right now? It feels like, everybody's fucking quitting. I don't know, this last year, I think we're. Are we leveling out? That thought has crossed my mind, too.

It's, It's not like I want to quit or give up. Yeah, about, like, how much I struggled early on and try to get it, you know, but you get to a point where you kind of feel like it's like being in a relationship, you know, like I've put so much into tattooing and it feels like there's a lot of give and not a lot of receiving back, you know? I mean, especially like when it starts slowing down, Yeah. kind of like you start thinking about like, well, what am I doing wrong that these other people you try not to look at other Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Easier said than done. He has it is only human. And I'll admit, like, I'll see people that I don't think are as skilled. Yeah. And that's just not me being a mean girl. That's just an honest judgment. Yeah. them being busier. And there's something about to them like, what are they doing differently? And I don't understand that, you know, so tattooing is in a weird spot where I feel, I don't know if it's my age. I don't know if it's because I'm doing comedy too, or I'm like, I'm just realizing a lot about myself.

But it's almost like I feel like I'm like, I'm in a relationship and I'm not being treated with respect. And I'm kind of like, I've put all this energy into this thing. Yeah, I have skills that transfer over at other things. But like during the winter, I got real rough and I was like, well, shit. Like I need to get a job elsewhere. And I'm like, I know I can. I'll go do labor, I don't Yeah, I'll do whatever. But like getting hired on at 45 history of doing that stuff is like, it's almost you're almost it's unrealistic.

Almost. Yeah. you aren't willing to let me in because I don't meet the entry level Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you know? What do you think it has to do? It is like so many new people post-Covid coming in. And then they blew up because post Covid also got incredibly easy to make a ton of money. And then I have a couple theories. I, I know again, I'm not any kind of totally. Yeah, I overthink everything and so I, I in this struggle of like what's happening what's going on. Like why is it like this?

I can't really started thinking about it. And I think there's a couple different things going on. I think with Covid, the money there was like it was like a hose that was crimps. People were like getting all this extra money. Yeah. It was unrealistic. If soon as we let down the restrictions, everybody's like, here's all my money. Yeah. Big shift in careers too. And interests. You know, people were fucking like three people in my shop quit that day, you know. So then they just went on to do other things or whatever.

And I mean, a lot of people got into tattooing was scary times. And then I think to like, you have that and then during the, the the shutdown, the lockdown, there was a lot of people that were going and buying tattoo equipment on the yeah, of my regular clients would come back Yep. Hey, don't be Did my full left sleeve. We talked about doing myself exactly like, oh, so much of it from knee to ankle all the way around the woods, scarred, fucked up, random sketchbook shit you've ever seen.

Gangster could not help. Yeah. She goes, I got to be honest, it's a lot harder than it looks. I'm back. I'm now being customer again. In the lesson, you got to live. With. That said, I don't have to be mad at you. My good lord, is that, like, there's a lot more people at home that they're like, well, I'm not paying for tattooing. There's like this whole rebellion against well. dues. And and listen, I don't think that people should be heys. I don't yeah. Think think that people should be sexually assaulted.

I don't think Well, yeah. Power to do any of those things and treat people poorly. But I also do think that people should earn the knowledge that they're given, Yeah. This used to be something sacred, that people respect. It. There's reasons why we didn't do certain things. There's reasons why we would make conditions for other things. There were rules, rules and those rules were there for a reason. It wasn't because it's like, no, we're being gatekeepers. It's like, no, we're doing this because it's not good for the industry.

We've done the research. These are the reasons why. And you get these new kids that come in, they're like, nah, fuck that. I'm going to do it my way. Yeah, you get these micro fine line tattoos. It's like we learn that lesson All right. Doing that. Yeah, I just and I'm not saying that there's people that don't do that, that don't do it well, but just these trends, these things come and go because people forget how bad they were. Yeah. You know, the demand is there too. And that's like, you know, when, when, when tattooing is slow and then there's all of a sudden all these people asking for this and you're like, okay, like, I'll figure it out.

I get it. like, you know, a lot of people were like was shit on dudes for selling out and doing that. But like at the end of the day, we provide a service. Yeah, I, on the other hand, there's certain times where I'm going to like pick and choose as far as, like what I'm going to do in terms of like, listen, I don't feel that you're going to get the tattoo you want. So as much as I need the money, I have to respectfully bow out. But so-and-so over here. Yeah. Do that. so that, like, they don't feel like I'm just like, nope, don't do that.

Too cool for school. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. but as far as, like, the industry changing, I think that on a whole other level think about like, when we were growing up, like. Our elders didn't really have tattoos. The people that did were gypsies and pirates and. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that dude seen some shit, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. know, like that's that's what it was like before. And I think that like, there was a certain amount of rebellion to it where like, you know, like my parents, I'm well, my mom's dead now, but my dad has fully tattooed you like he's got his whole back on.

I've done a bunch of Yeah. and he was so pissed at me when I came home with my first Yeah. This weird full circle moment down the road to have, like, changed his mind to where he accepted it in a way that, like, I'm doing this whole back piece like that's wild to me, but like, that's cool. That's how tattooing was like, yeah, like prove yourself and you like, there was a rebellion to it. And I think that now, because we're all now getting older and like you look around at schools, like I remember at first I was kind of like, you know, having a, a slightly older wife and having kids already, I'm like the young, heavily tattooed dad most of the time at the schools.

And there'd be maybe like 1 or 2 other dads that had like a couple visible tattoos, but everybody else was kind of hidden. Now, as time is going on, you're seeing like multiples oh my God, people that look just like you that. Right? tattooed and you're like, oh shit, this is my peer group. That's why. And so I think that there's this thing where you have this rebellion against having tattoos, where, yeah, kids now, again, smaller tattoos not as visible. They're they're two less of a commitment.

Exactly. You're thinking about you can jump in at a cheaper price here and there. But there's also I don't know if you see like an insane amount of really young people getting tattooed like heavily tattooed. Yeah. Like we get calls all the fucking time and we're constantly like, what, 15? You want your kid to get like a half sleeve and you're like, no, dude. Like, time, I can't help but feel like if you're a 15 year old is trying to get tattooed, that's most likely the least problem Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

the tattooing is nothing compared to the other shit that yeah, yeah, it is tough because I feel like it's one of those situations where age limits on things are there for a Yeah. Like your body's still changing. Yeah, yeah. for me, I always use the approach of like I just tell people straight up, like, I know that out here, the age of consent is 16 with a parent to get tattooed. But for me, the way I break it down, I go, listen, statutory rape is defined as penetration on the minor with a foreign object.

Oh, God, is a tattoo okay, I'm just nod. Yeah. I just think about if I got every tattoo that I wanted when I was 14 years old, I'd be covered in Metallica tattoos Yeah, I that's that's kind of tied. There doing a sphere residency. Yeah. It'd be full circle. You would be the coolest kid of the park. Like we were headed towards there were industry standards for so long in this business. You know what I mean? Like, for for 20 years, there was a $20 difference in minimum prices from shop to shop to shop.

And now, I mean, everybody follow someone on Instagram that posts these $15,000 sleeves Yeah. You how much they're paying for it. Or at the same time, you're also following Colesville, who's got a $10 minimum. Yeah. the where's the industry standard? This guy's starting his prices at, you know, $3,500 a day, and then you get the $10 shop and it's like there's just no standard Yeah. Oh, cause it kind of causes the insecurity, too. And the artists where you're like, where's my identity?

Where, where do I fit into this spectrum of, like, this is a crazy. Yeah. earlier too. It's like you struggle to be like, well, I feel like I'm worth this much, but then you're like looking at other stuff. You're like, well, I'm seeing this dude. He's not that great. And he's in the street, like, I should be charging more, but then you see somebody else who's better than you, and they're charging last. You like, I'm so confused. Yeah, yeah, I get it, people are trying to do what they gotta do to to survive.

But I definitely feel like, you know, there is some fuckery afoot with the way people are charging and, like, taking advantage of Yeah, I'm stoked that, like, tattooing has blown up and gotten to where it has. But it's at a point where it's like this, like, you know, too big to fail kind of a thing, where it gets to a point where, like, I hate to be that like old guy tattoo or it's like everything's like saturated. That's the thing too. Yeah. wants to do it a proper apprenticeship.

They fucking go through their YouTube apprenticeship or they binge watch Ink Master and they order the machine off of, you the Amazon. Yeah. next thing you know, they are opening a shop because they've got funding from somebody and it's like and five friends are learning. They're teaching five friends tattoo. Yeah. It's pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah. not trying to say like that. Someone shouldn't be able to do that. Like they I really don't think they should. But like if that's something they should, if that's if that's something that they want to do, then I don't think that like, they should have the success Yeah.

It's hard though. Yeah I know, I know. But then there's also this like punk rock side of tattooing that it's like you just got into it and you figured it out. However the fuck you figured it out and you know, you didn't follow the rules. So I kind of get it too, but, you know, yeah. Yeah. So it's it's has to be organized chaos. You right be a little bit of semblance there because otherwise, you know, like even with, like if you want to use art or painting as an example, Jackson Pollock, like, it's Yeah, But it still has a canvas.

It's still framed. There's still it's still contained, Yeah. It's not just you walk into the gallery, it's everywhere Yeah. this is insane. I what am I looking at here? You know, like it's controlled Yeah, That's what tattooing should be like. You should be a bit of a gypsy. You should be a bit of a pirate. You should break the Yeah. you need to learn the rules and know the rules first before you break them. Yeah, they'll make you better in the long run. We'll talk shit about Pablo Picasso and like, oh, there's Cubism.

Like, oh, that fucking idiot. Like, what is this? This is art. Like, Yeah, looks like. That's not what a guitarist looks like. But then you look at his life studies like his Yeah. Holy shit. Dude, like one of the best. Yeah. That you've ever seen. Yeah. To me, Pollock two. Same thing with Pollock rules. and they knew them so well that they can break them and still have enough structured chaos there, could understand what was What's that quote he says it took me a lifelong, journey as an artist to learn how to draw like a child, you know, just like is cool.

You just goes to show how, like, yeah, all that time and energy put into there. Once you execute it in whatever shape or form you choose, and you obviously have a lot more to put in there. I'm like mumbling right now, but yeah, I mean, like we're all fucking tattooers. Yeah, I always use that as like, I'm like, and I don't want to take it too seriously, you know? I want to have fun. my insight on the industry and like, I'm not saying that like what I have to say is like the fucking be all end all, like I always just use I go, look, I'm just a fucking tattoo, or I Yeah, yeah, yeah.

you know, I just. I feel like there are certain things that were established for a reason, and people should maybe follow some of those things. I fucking love what you're doing with your comedy. It's so fun. It's really cool to see you. Like I said, step out. It takes a lot of nuts to just get up there on stage and push yourself to do something that is so incredibly unique and different and new. And I can't even imagine how humbling that experience is. And I think that'll take you and make you even stronger and also like, maybe even help network your tattooing, you know, like, I think that's cool.

Yeah. To me, at shows would be like, you a tattoo. Yeah. Follow my. Yeah. That's fucking great, dude. Yeah. crazy. Like, I always said that, like I refused to do, like this fucking TikTok thing to be Yeah, yeah. Like I'm not going to do this. Yeah. dumb enough, like to promote comedy stuff. I've been making skits and doing silly Yeah. Cool. I guess for me it just it feels more on brand to be silly. As a comedian and promote a comedy show than it does to be a tattooer. Yeah. You know, mean.

Yeah. It's just your thing. Yeah. serious, but I'm not like one of those serious business guys that, like, tries to be, oh, you better fucking take me seriously. Yeah, I just, I don't know, like, I'm not shitting on people who do those TikTok type videos, but just. I got into tattooing because I didn't want to, like, be responsible This is. Yeah. Yeah. Like, manage your emotions and you're like, yeah. therapy, and I got to be a businessman, and I got to be an influencer, and I got to learn the internet.

I It's a lot. It really is a lot right now. It's just the most I think, you know, and I don't think this is obviously just in tattooing. I think all across the board like to promote yourself in general. You're now like if you're providing this service or whatever you trying to prove your skill set out there. And then you also have to learn how to be a media production company and, be take all the time to do everything else time in tattooing where putting out a good product was all you needed Yeah.

If you put out a good tattoo, you were going to be successful. I mean, sailor Jerry, his famous words were my work speaks for Yeah. you know, and like, that's that's something that I feel is to a degree, missing. But at the same time, I also understand like that it is to a degree, I think, good for business to have as much competition, if you want to Yeah. because that just makes you want to be better. It separates the weak, you know, and do I like the way some of this is happening?

No. But at the same time, like some of these people that are quitting, they know, like like I said, I thought about doing it, but like, I didn't. Yeah. I feel like it if, if, if you can't handle the heat, you're going to get out. Right? Dude. It and it's fucking hot out there right now and, and you basically have to take on now just basically spending any, spare time when you're not tattooing or drawing, you need to be using that spare time to be honing your craft in your communication skills to and from tattooing a few years ago, and I that was one of my questions was, and how are you dealing with it?

Because I know how I'm dealing with it and I ain't dealing with it well at all. And his whole thing was, well, I didn't walk away from the tattooing that I got into. yeah, business has changed so much that walking away from this is not hard to do at this point, because it doesn't resemble in any way, shape or form what you fell in love with. And I think that's the thing that people aren't talking about right now, is that while, yes, you yeah has changed and you have to adapt or die, but that's the thing too, is that like there's a certain amount of it that like, again, part of why you got into doing it was because you felt like you didn't fit in in these other worlds.

And this made sense because this was what you had to do. Now that that's changed, you're kind of like, well, fuck, now I don't fit in anymore, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. And as artists, we fall in and out of love with a lot of different things in our lives, you know? So when you're really into it, you're fucking into it. And I may eat up 15, 20 years and then you're just like, seeing those and chasing those butterflies. All of a sudden you're like, oh, well, squirrel over here, this isn't as fun anymore.

So but it's hard as fuck when you get older to be able to make that transition to into anything else. So you've got to plan and work hard and play the game to get to the next level or sure. Well, and I feel like I've always been the type to sort of adapt in my own way, you know, like I'm adapting to this change in thing. Yeah. As much as I feel comfortable doing enough to stay relevant enough to do what I'm doing, but I'm also doing other things, you know, like, again, like, like you said, you fallen out of love things.

I, I still love tattooing, but after doing comedy and talking about it and like having especially after doing it a couple times and like getting the feedback I got like that was the other thing is like my first time up did my whole five minutes. I got laughs throughout. It wasn't a killer. Yeah, and it was what I expected. And because I didn't do that, I thought I sucked and I didn't want to go back up again. We have an intermission. All the comics that are on the show come over and they're like, dude, that was your first time ever.

That was yeah. do you mean? They're like, you're funny. Your setups and punchlines are great. And I'm like, oh, I forgot this. I fucked up there like, nobody knows that about you. and that was like a oh shit moment. Yeah. They're like, listen, you looked a little nervous and you probably could slow. There's a couple notes I could give you. Like, you look like you're new at it, but you look like you've been doing it for like a year or Yeah. to hear that your first time, you look like you've been doing it for a minute.

You're like, oh, shit. Okay, maybe there's something to this. Yeah. So then that carries you on to keep going, and then you do my next set. I did it wise guys. When when they had the open mic in the Arts district. And that room was intimidating. But it was a kill box. That place was so sick. But it's a real comedy club. Like it's a That's cool. That's not on the strip and it's not an open mic. So getting to do stand up my second time ever in there and having it be a full room, going up early in the night and like having a good set, then having like another comedian come up and tell me, this kid Jake Wolf, he's fucking hilarious.

His dad's Josh Wolf, Oh, so fucking hilarious. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he came up. Yeah. Are you. Where'd you come from? Your shit's funny. And he's like, you got time to talk. We talked in the lobby for like, 20 minutes and, like, just again, just that recognition by somebody who, Yeah. Your peers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like when you were learning about a tattoo. Tattooers weren't like, oh, dude, your stuff is good. Yeah, I wouldn't say yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah I was yeah, yeah yeah.

that's where comedy is different from tattooing is that I felt like and I don't know, maybe it's only my experience and I just had the right set of skills and the presence and whatever Early on, I'm like, Holy shit, who is this guy? So again, that was a ripple effect and it was infectious and I So like I got to a point where like I was again leaning into it and I was excited Yeah. I felt like I had purpose. And like, tattooing fills you with a purpose Yeah. Well, yeah. But like doing comedy, it's one of those things where I've always said, like, nothing makes me happier than making people laugh, Yeah, And like and then like after doing it and like then telling people like, it's almost like I'm saying it and I'm realizing at the same time I'm like, oh shit.

Like, like the most important. Like nothing feels better than, like getting people to laugh. Like yeah, it. You're saying I can't? There's nothing like it, you know? Yeah. Like after doing that, like, I always thought that tattooing was basically going to be like, that's what I'm done. Like, you know, that's what I'm known for. And now I'm kind of like, that's still there. Yeah, yeah. And you're still in love with it. also like, but maybe I'm meant to be a comedian, Yeah. Well, anyway, I mean, you have a good night.

I'm sure it's rolling over in your next day while you're tattooing. Then it's like it makes it. Yeah, it makes that, experience. You're excited to tell your client about it or something. So then it kind of revamps your tattoo experience to on your, you know, during your day, you know, like it's comedy is a lot about that kinetic energy in that motion. Yeah. I'm already like riding that wave in that energy and I'm, I had a good night and I'm coming in and it's a great client radio client, or even if it's a first time on and they're excited like that excitement.

Like I like to like work with that Yeah. Just like feed into it and like it definitely like continues to ripple. And Yeah. You have that positive, fun, upbeat energy, it just I don't know how many people that I've barely tattooed one time that come back and get another tattoo and also come out and see a show. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. Started I was like not embarrassed, but I just didn't think that people would think it was like, cool. Like, who wants to go see an open mic Yeah, there's always this like negative, like, you know, like it's very hack, it's very cool.

Yeah. No I did 2 degree. It's like it'd be like me being like, hey man, I just recently learned how to play Yeah. You want to come see this? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally. playing a set at Guitar Center in Town Square. I don't know why. I was just thinking about I. We were at the Hardhat Lounge downtown. They had a used to have an open mic night there, and, I went in with my wife, and we were pretty freaking drunk. Dude. Like pretty hammered. There was only like, four people in there.

And Hannibal Burse walks in and then signs in and they let him go up there. And we were so fucking drunk. I still feel bad about this. We we were so excited that he was just standing in front of us. We were just talking loud. Yeah, yeah. And we were like, oh my God, Holy shit, dude. Like, what the fuck? He's like, right there. That's I don't know why. It was just like one of those dumber moments. Yeah. I'm like, I'm fucking grown, man. What? I was just like, oh, God, he's fucking so funny.

Like, it's. So. Weird. Yes. The moon is a sad place to be. Oh my God. Well, shit. Dude, I think we should wrap it up, man. It was. It was super awesome. I Am I able to shout my Yes. Oh, yeah. So. Yes. Yeah. No, 1,000% Laughter Day Saints comedy on Instagram. And then my, my personal Instagram page is mine's actually met a verified. There's a blue checkmark next Okay okay. Jason Paxman Arts Yeah. all separated with underscores. okay. I purposely it's a motherfucker to like tell people it with the underscores.

But I did that because the other one was Jason Paxman. Tattoos. All one word. Yeah. I wanted to separate it enough to where people wouldn't accidentally click on it. But I tried to get Instagram to take that page Yeah, I even got meta verified on the other one, thinking that I would like give me a better like give access to it. Yeah, yeah. Phil's got shut down too. I know, it's it's fucking insane. Yeah, yeah. post a painting with a fucking nipple in it, my shit gets shut down.

But if somebody takes over my actual page and I have Yeah, I am forgetting half. Yeah. They don't. They're like, sorry, we don't know what to tell you. They have all your friends and people, you know, report the page. And I'm like, you know how many people have had tell me that they Right. Nothing's Yeah, yeah, I remember doing it and going through the process for you, but like 3 or 4 full days trying to, to handle all that and was like, I can't yeah, more Well, I'm a oh, it's upsetting.

Yeah, I'm going to just move on. And then as far as tattooing, we can find you at Bad Apple at Apple Tattoo, you guys just have one location hours still. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Which is ironically where I started my apprenticeship. Way before it was bad. Apple was accents and art. That's where I started my apprenticeship in that space. It was only one space. So we used to call it accidents and art and. Yeah. Yeah, because the guy's son used to do drugs and he'd fucking nodded off and zipped the line down.

This guy's back. Yeah, I actually met that dude at a party years later, randomly. It was like, you're the dude and you just had a full on peppered ass line just ripped into his ribs. Dude, dude just nodded off or whatever. Yeah. I have a picture of me getting paid by a why am I brain farting his name right now a little. He was a pit boss in Vegas. His daughter was a stripper and his son was a drug addict. Tattoo or just a great dude. Like, of fun. Like a family of characters?

Yeah, something like that. But anyway. Yeah, dude, I put in work in that space. I was, there it was five smoking ass tattooers in there, and we were the ones that knocked the walls down and opened it up when Dave Logue took it over and turned it into Mark five and yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I walked in to see you not too long ago, I can remember when it was, it was like, Holy shit, it's just a weird vibe, you know? You're like, dang, dude, I like has changed hands numerous times.

Yeah, yeah. And even to, like, rest in peace, Jesse. Girl, she owned it. To me and Jesse. We tattooed the dudes off bum fights. She did the knuckles, tattoos. They walked into the shop, and, she did. Rufus. Knuckles. The the most famous ones bum fights around the cover. And then I did, Donnie's forearms fk for life on his and yeah. any of those guys are still around. those dudes that they got better at fighting. They got into drywall, they got UFC, they got shows sober ish and, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's that's Rufus.

Anyway, that was a little tie then back to. Yeah. And then the shop was fucking then I think then Dave sold it to her or. No, Dave sold it to Justin and boom. And they turned it into Bad Apple. And then Jesse bought it, and then Ed and her bought it or something. Yeah, yeah. Like yeah. Now, how are you guys dealing with the $20 tattoo shop right down the block? I mean it is what it is like. I it's it's hard because like there's also like crazy construction going on on Charleston right.

Oh I know yeah. Moving up there. Yeah. Yeah. again, it's just there's a lot of factors all going in all at once. You know. Yeah. Always slows down. Like and that's the thing is like tattooing has been picking up for me a little Yeah. Yeah. it's like, okay, we're kind of resetting. It's kind of coming back, Yeah. Like it does. It's oddly enough, I don't know why. I don't know if you guys have ever made this connection, but tattooing you can almost time the slow season with football season.

Football season. Yeah. Politics too, all sorts of shit. Yeah. There's a lot of different things. Yeah. it seems like because football season also falls right around when people are getting their tax returns. Yeah. like had enough time away from the holidays to kind of recoup their costs. There. It's starting to warm up. It's almost like everybody's like, yeah, I fucking yeah, depressed anymore. I kind of feel, okay, let's go get a Yeah, yeah. With us being in Vegas too, we have a huge convention circuit right now.

So, and this year's booked out more supposedly than the last, like, for some shit. So tourism was down? Yeah, like, a lot of it, like the parking rate hikes, the Yeah. like, it's just they're doing dumb shit to, like, not only fuck with tourism, but locals Yeah. just I think that that also is another factor for us locally that we're feeling in terms of tattooing, that maybe other cities aren't dealing that. Yeah. winter time, the economy, politics, Yeah. Fucking crazy right? Yeah.

I'm like, oh, you don't want to get a dick tattooed Yeah. We have the craziest community for tattooing here. Like, it's it's, the ecosystem is so strange. We have everything from, like, we talked about, like, the $10 tattoo shops to the glorious fucking giant two story tattoo shops inside the casinos. You know, it's. And it is all over the place. A lot of it, too, in every aspect. So that's funny you were talking about the, the, the guys at left, cool ville, cool ville or whatever, and opened up like that shop.

Was that near you guys too, or whatever? Well, you're in an older neighborhood too, like your neighborhood is basically two block. Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Oh okay. Okay. Yeah. Our we're. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Exactly. Moved. Yeah. He always talks about it too. Yeah. Well, anyway, get out there. Check out, Jason Paxton's art. I greatly appreciate you guys. You know, you coming in. I greatly appreciate you, Phil, blessing us with your presence. Yep. And, Yeah. So, what's your Instagram again?

Jason paxman? Yeah, with underscores. There's a verified blue checkmark next to it. your, at Laughter Day Saints comedy. All one word. That's the, show page that I run for. The comedy confessional. Yeah. Once a month at the Griffin. Yep. And hopefully hitting the road soon. One day. Yeah. Fuck it. Yeah. I'm excited for you, dude. I think you got a really good formula. It's. It was fun as fuck, and it's repeatable and scalable, which is awesome. So yeah. So peace out guys. Thank you so much for listening.

Get tattooed, say nice things to tattooers that you know, slide into the DMs. Just make somebody feel good. Yeah. Send them some love. All right guys. Goes a long way. It does. Yes. Peace.