Maverick ZINE — Tattoo Culture, Art & Artist Stories

I worked right there in that front booth in the window. it was the best reality show you've ever seen. Fuck, dude. don't know how many times I got flash tits, by the way. that. That's great. Tuesday? You would just hear Around. And you just. see some random chick from Nebraska showing her fucking huge tits. And I'm just like, great day. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like is happening? Today on the podcast, Jason Paxman from Bad Apple Tattoo and producer of laughter de Saint comedy. Holy shit.

Dude, I quit comedy that night. I legit was like, I'm not doing that again. I don't need that embarrassment. I do that enough to myself. I don't need other people doing it to me. We talk old Vegas tattoo shop stories. Wild street shop chaos. How tattooing has changed over the years and so much more. I almost got stabbed by a black homeless guy that we called the tree. He had, like, a butcher knife, like this big dude. We told them we're like, hey, man, you got to leave. And he, like, wouldn't leave.

Just. Never. Plus, we're joined once again by the great Phil Luck Brooklyn, New York tattooer. You've seen him in the covers, in history books and tattoo magazines over the years. He is now relocated and here in Las Vegas. I'm Austin Spencer, and this is support your local tattooer. Welcome, everyone. To support your local tattooer. This is Austin Spencer. We are back tonight up in the warehouse at the Maverick. Spot. We got the, Let's see. We got Phil Lux in the fucking house.

Let me say hi. No. Hello. He's a sign language. This is a videos. Get the fucking filtering into a mime over here today. And we got my good buddy Jason Paxman in the house. And I am so pumped to be here tonight. Dude, we're going to go over some fun shit. And I don't know, man, like, let's get it fucking rolling. Rolling. So what's up Jason? How are you dude. I'm fantastic man. Fuck yeah. be life and but you know, you got to take it in stride. Anyway. Yeah. So fucking. Hey, dude, I just wanted to have you in.

I know you've been doing some really cool shit lately. I've been watching you. I've known you for a very long time. But now you're doing some real cool shit on the side outside of your tattoo, and you've got. I just went the other night to, the Church of Laughter Day. Saints, which is pretty fucking awesome comedy confessional. And it's a silly idea that really, that's all it was at first was just a I love puns. I've always been goofy, you know, Yeah, yeah, I have to go for fun.

Yeah, addicted to making people laugh, so it's just in my wheelhouse. So that's just how my brain works. Driving around one day, the name kind of came to mind. I have to write that down. The whole idea kind of just sort of fell into my lap. I wasn't even thinking about producing shows yet, just because I've only been doing standup for about a year and a half now. One of the hardest things I've ever done, by the way. And I filmed fought people in a ring in front of strangers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

like I've. I've done it, like, over 100 times and still to this day, like, I get nervous doing it. Yeah. It's a fun, exciting feeling. But. So anyways, the, is it the crowd? Is it the crowd that's getting you? Is it just standing? the women's underwear. He wears women's underwear. And it's just it's really just getting to him. the halter tops. Boost. Yeah. Sorry. Oh. Well, Yeah, all three of us together, but no, like, so just performing in general, like, I, I take it seriously.

Which I know sounds funny when you're doing comedy, but, like, I, I really respect the craft, and I think that's what hindered me from doing it for so long, because now that I'm doing it, I look back and I'm like, the signs were always there. Like right at every point I'm like, dude, I was meant to be a fucking yeah, yeah, it's not that it's not. It's not like it's just coming to me naturally, but it just I feel like there's a lot of it that just feels natural Yeah. Like, this is just who I am.

Yeah. It's fun. dude, you're fucking funny. And it's it's landing. Well, you Right? I think you you I mean, you build up a lot of confidence over the years. I don't know if I mentioned you are a tattoo or you've been a tattoo or for a long time, you know, you forget and I think tattoo. Yeah. I think tattooing perfecting your craft. Non-Customers. Yeah, yeah. the thing is, like, you know, the the tattoo shop is a lot like a barber shop, Yeah, like a black barber shop. We're in there just chopping it up, Yup.

Real shit, but like keeping it light and funny and kind of taking digs at each other. Yeah, exactly. little bit of a thick skin. And in standup, you have to, like, have even thicker of a skin Yeah. like, you'll have a great set one night, do literally the same thing the next night somewhere else, and get next to No shit. Feel like, fucking total. Yeah, like I don't, guess I don't know how to do anything anymore. So. Yeah. Like fucks with you mentally and like it Yeah, I would imagine, It even started to like, affect my mentality towards tattooing.

I started getting imposter syndrome like crazy. Like it it was like this total unraveling. I was not really to like, basically be doing therapy in a way. Yeah, that's kind of what it is, you know? But you still have to try to keep it funny. And there's definitely some nights where I'm on stage and I'm like, whoops, that was a little too therapeutic and a little less funny. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. feeling it, but no, I mean, it's, It's fun, I love it, and it's. I've done a lot of drugs.

You know, I'm sober now, but like, almost every drug. And this is by far the best. It's, bullshit. Total bullshit. I don't know. Yeah, I haven't tried stand up, but I did do a lot of Molly and mushrooms all in one night at EDC for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get to, like, really, really push yourself obviously and get fucking. And so have you had some really good nights where you just get roasted like, well bomb. Oh dude I yeah the fucking worst. So like, I do a lot of material about how I look yeah, like a lot of times people will just assume that I'm a skinhead, you know?

Yeah. lot of, like, what I joke and talk about. And I did a show in Pahrump Pahrump. Yeah. Not ideal to be like, yeah, I'm not. And they're like, oh, yeah, this motherfucker. 12 minutes of me just doing my routine and just bombing, you know, like I got a couple chuckles here and there over some silly stuff, but like, it was by far the worst show I've had. Like one of the comedians, like a few people after me, his first like 3 to 5 minutes of his set was just roasting me all really on the same bill.

It's kind of what you do. Yeah. It's like a it kind of helps you in a way like I, it was like I just I wasn't ready to hear too soon. hold it in. And, you know, Donna, my wife, she's like, super protective. yeah. She's like, what the fuck he saying about you? She's like, I don't like that. Yeah, that's cool, babe. right. that drive home from Pahrump Yeah. back to Vegas Yeah, the longest, I, yeah. dude, like I, I quit comedy that night. Yeah. It was like, I'm not doing that again.

Yeah, I don't need that embarrassment. I do that enough to myself. I don't need other people doing it to me. Would you you to like that first night of or, you know, going out to do the open mic What would that had to have been nerve wracking as fuck was I mean, it was, and then even right now, like, thinking about it, I have that same yeah. in my chest. It's wild. But basically, like, I mean, you know, like, we're in tight quarters when we tattoo, and it's like a barbershop, so we're just talking shit all day, and, like, yeah, if I have people around me that encourage it, it's almost like my brain's like, oh, let's fucking go.

Yeah, yeah. Is on overdrive. Yeah. Because like I said, it's like a drug. I get addicted to making people laugh because to me, there's nothing better than that. Like, that's the best feeling in the world. Making a group of people laugh because you feel like you break the tension. It's cool, you know? Yeah, So just me being me, joking around, having people being like, dude, you should do standup. Yeah, buddy Tom Vincent, he tattoos in Nashville now, but he used to work at Bad Apple Killer Tattoo or one of my homies.

He's been that, like, voice in my ear, like, Oh, cool. You need to be standing. Yeah. you hear that enough. And then you start kind of going, yeah, I am, I am a comedian, you know, and then like, you know, you're around your friends, you're like, I'm a fucking comedian, you Like, actually, like, I think I am. Then you hear podcast people talking about their situations, way they approach comedy and things. And I'm like, I feel like they're talking about me. You know? It just Yeah, par for who I am.

Then I was like, I feel like this is the universe being like, hey, you should really try this out. Yeah. And like, he was tapping a comedian one time, and at the time, I didn't know it. I'm being me being silly. She chimes in and goes, oh, he's funny. And Tom's like, hey, did you hear that? She said, you're funny. And I was just like, okay, yeah, she's a comedian. And I was like, oh, for real? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, oh, really? She's like, yeah. She's like, do you do standup?

And I was like, now she's like, you should Oh! So I was like, all right. So again, having a couple of these encounters with people sort of reinforces that. And then like once you kind of start thinking about doing something and then it's all of a sudden it's, you know, it's like it's that confirmation bias, like you get a new car and it's like a Dodge Challenger. Yeah. everywhere you go, you're like, man, there's a lot of Dodge challengers Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all it's like it's you're thinking yeah it's and you're.

Yep. And again, so it's like, I feel like there's, you know, I'm gonna get all hippie here for a second, know I get so many different things being a creative person that there's like this constant stream of things that we can do. And it's just if you want to tune in and pay attention to it or not. it's like, yeah, I was like, oh fuck, dude. Like, I, I have like all those flaws of a comedian. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. A lot of trauma builds that funny. And so like that makes sense to me.

it's a long play like you I mean you get up there and you, it's not like you I how many comedians just crush it right out of the gate. It's like takes a lot of exercise. Right. Like were winning like oh shit. Right out of the gate. Like a couple of shows in. You will win in shit. 11th performance, I, was stupid enough You again agree to do this comedy competition. And, my friend Kay Banks, she's awesome. She saw me on another show and was like, who are you? Where did you come from?

Like, you are fucking hilarious. And so just having a lot of that, like confirmation early on helped build again. I think it just sort of, supported what I felt about like I'm onto something here, like, there's something here. Yeah. so they would see something. I mean, then they would like, oh shit, let's put them on other stuff. So like my fourth or fifth show, I was booked on a regular show that wasn't an open mic and paid, Oh fuck. Yeah. and because of being on that show, she saw me on one of my other times hosting that show.

And because of that, she's like, yo, you need to be in this competition. And I was like, I don't think I'm ready for that, Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't like cocky like that because it's it's like this roller coaster of being like, dude, I'm crushing you. Yeah. And then like, literally two days later, that high wears off and you're like, why did I agree to do this again? I'm terrified. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just being a, I don't know, I was all I was, actually, I don't know if I want to switch it, but I was just kind of interested too.

And like, the difference of, like, it sounds like you played, like, slightly larger rooms and then really small, intimate shows. And so the very first time I did it, I know we kind of bounced around here, but like so eventually, like I was talking with one of my good friends and a client of mine and she was like, I've always wanted to do stand up too. And I was like, well, I'm going to be a comedian. Okay, yeah, let's do it together. She ran an animal shelter out here for a while, like an animal rescue.

And, she's like one, you know, months go by and then she hits me up one day and was like, hey, remember our agreement? I was like, fuck yeah, I do, you know? And she's like, well, I'm putting together this, charity show to raise money for my dogs. I'm going to call it comedy for canines. And I Oh, cool. Yeah. And she's like, I want you to be on the show. I'm like, I'm not a comedian. yeah, like, that would be a good place. Oh, yeah. I was like, well, I love dogs, so I couldn't say no to that.

But I also felt like it'd be a safe spot to do it because, you know, how long of a set that you have to come up with for this. Okay. and that's a lot, right? Like a five minutes. No. Yeah. I mean, it was it was five minutes, but it wasn't like I talked the whole time. I didn't get like some people will freeze up or they'll like get tripped up. That's what I would do a little too fast. I was a little too excited. Dude. Slow down. And then the other thing too is like, I thought when I got up there that I could just like have notes or like a couple jokes written and then just riff on it.

Yeah, But I had never been on stage Yeah. Yeah. One of those things that like, it's a skill that I'm having to learn it. Yeah, no, for sure, it's the same skill set is like talking shit in the shop. Doing that on stage is different because. Yeah, and like, I could kind of hear the laughs, but I was so nervous and so caught up in myself. And what was happening that I couldn't focus on what was going on. I couldn't really have fun that first time. Yeah. movie theater like downtown cinemas or whatever.

They converted one of those spaces into like an event space. So it's like one of those, like, movie theaters, like a medium sized movie theater with like a couple booths and chairs set up. And Yeah. Oh, I don't know what the total count was. I think there might have been about 100 people or so in there, but it was. It's a decent amount of people to perform for when you've never done it before. I, I feel like every room would be like a it's kind of like tattooing there's and everybody's skin is different.

So you could do that same skull every day on a different person. You're going to get a different reaction out of it. So I'm assuming every room A it's different people in there. The I don't know just isn't there. Like feels and of a of a room, you know that like That's why I like when they talk about like reading the room, you know, it's like it's easier said than done Yeah. something that you have to kind of learn by doing the craft over and over and over again and seeing what works and why and what doesn't.

And you'll think that you're doing something the same way, but it'll be the littlest bit of like a pause or you slowed down your wording or you didn't, like trip over this set up right here. It was real crisp and clean, like all of those things Yeah. Everything matters. And so as soon as you get that all figured out, pieces all come together and you can have more fun on stage. But like, until then, it's hard to riff. It's hard fucking do that sound. Yeah. Then there's like the old Mitch Hedberg joke where he says, you can't keep all the people happy all the time.

And all those people were at my show last Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Those people show up on my shows, So how, like how you read the room to like I said, it's just doing those repetitions and like, you know, I've learned that there's a way to deliver that material. Still. You just have to approach it Yeah, you have to like the way that the I guess the biggest thing that helped me to really like reach sort of that next step to where I'm getting better at it and getting better at a quicker rate, is you have to treat the audience like you're having a conversation, Yeah.

Connect with them. Yeah. You want to take them on a journey, they want to trust you, and then you want to pull the rug out underneath them. Yeah, that's the surprise. Yeah. you trust you, as soon as you pull the rug out, you're like, you motherfucker, you're still standing, up. mean? It's like they see it coming. So it's like you can dance around touchy issues. Like, I'll talk a lot about race stuff Yeah, because I deal with it. But I approach it in a way that's like very light hearted, but also like pointing out, like the ridiculousness of you.

What's happening in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Do you physically, like, sit down and write or like, you know. Yeah. Because, like. Yeah. I was just wondering, like how you put content. I don't know how to fucking do it any crazy. So at first I was like, I don't know how to translate doing this Yeah, yeah. be like, I'll remember that. And now I realized to start writing shit down is I had a client one day, like messaged me after my appointment with them, and they were like, top three favorite things you said today.

And it was like just the most random, ridiculous, silly shit. You know? Like, Subaru owners definitely snort granola. Okay. So then you can so then you just you take that. It's like a lead. Yeah. I'm going to. It's funny, like, I'm, it's a one liner. I'm going to just write that down. And at some point you might be able to use that or Like one night at one of the mics, one of the comedians was talking about how they had a Subaru and they like, we're talking about doing drugs and kind of being a hippie.

And I was like, yeah, like, you seem like the type that would snort granola Yeah, it landed. And it was like something that, like I had already wrote, but it seemed like it was in the moment. But it was just popped into the index. That's cool. like, I will try to actually I have a couple different notebooks that I have, ones like more of a smaller like handmade joke book Yeah. like, write down stuff that's like actually landing and working Okay. kind of like use that as, like the, the Bible, you Yeah.

then I have more of like a journal, if you will. We're all just literally like try and approach like, okay, how would I say myself if I want to do these topics and I try to write it out exactly how I would say it, Well, I don't necessarily try to duplicate that on stage. But the more you write like that, and the more you just get your brain going, the more you just like physically write. It helps to kind of promote those ideas and just make you funnier and approach things from a more creative, different I feel like I feel like having tattooing in your arsenal, as well as a huge training ground, like you could try that shit out instead of trying it out on stage in front of a crowd full of people.

You could try it out in a shop and and see how it lands. So again, another one that was you got to read the room The, there's definitely times where like, you know, especially if I've had a bunch of good shows and they've been going well, my brain gets on overdrive and it wants to keep working. Yeah, at the shop and I'll be joking. And it gets to a point where I'm like, I probably shouldn't be saying this. This is a tattoo shop, not a comedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people get fucking upset Yeah.

No, I'm still so know for sure is still like a touchy thing. And so you have to read the room and be careful. You know? But, Yeah. My material sometimes, but you have to try it again. And it's like a lot of times, I mean, the communities for your ad people will come up to you and be like, hey, have you thought about trying it? This way? Or they'll give you a tag? Oh that's fun. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Or they'll be like, hey, you know, even something as simple as being like, hey, man, you've got something there.

Like there's something funny there. I don't know where where it is, but you're close. Just keep digging. And at the time you're like, what the fuck does that even mean? Like, but that's just it. Sometimes you go on stage and you don't necessarily try to duplicate the way you say things, Yeah, get in the habit of like, oh, well, the last two times I said this exactly this way, it got a great response. You try that somewhere else, and instead of reading the room and letting them kind of help guide you, yeah, you're going to start bombing.

pivot. And yeah, stuff that you learn by doing it over and over. You have some good mentors or like, you know, like somebody there's a lot of people, I guess, in the scene, you know, that are just, really helpful. Yeah. he's one of them. He he started the show, tequila a little time. Las Vegas is their show. Yeah. They unfortunately, that restaurant just closed, so their shows no longer. But. Yeah, he was the first person after seeing me at that very first show that I did. I performed with him on that show for the charity event.

He had reached out to me and told me to come check out his show, and I was like, I kind of feel like this is a sign. You know? I was telling Dan. I was like, I feel like this is a sign. If a comedian reaches out for you to come check out Yeah, think that they want you to maybe be on it at some point. So I was like, I'm going to go, you know, I want to support it too. So I went and checked it out and he's like, so what do you think? Do you want to be on the show? And I was like, fuck yeah.

And I was like, I'm not really a comedian. Okay, so dude, stop that. He's like, you're a fucking comedian. You're you're funny. He's like, if you weren't, I wouldn't have asked you to come. And I wouldn't ask you to be on my show. So I end up being, like I said, the fifth time, I think I did stand up. I did his show and I was booked on. And that night he didn't tell me where he was going to put me on. And because I had a lot of people that came out to support, which is also rad like people have been super supportive of me doing this.

And that's the other thing where tattooing is helpful, too? Yeah. So I had like a real deep. Yeah. I mean, and I think that that was also what helped us, on was like, bring some people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was kind. I showed up and was kind because that's I was respectful and I wanted to be treated the same way. is the community, is the tattoo community or, sorry, the comedian community, kind of similar to like kind of the old school tattoo community where there was like a lot of slop in it and a mess.

And like, people didn't show up and stuff, I mean, or like, obviously I've only been in kind of a smaller. Yeah, yeah. in some of the local clubs a bit. So I'm only scratching the surface Yeah. I mean, you're very young to it a lot like tattooing. There's, there's cliques, Yeah. some people that want a gatekeepers, other people that want to help out. Community is pretty rad out here, but there are a couple people that yeah, kind of turds and they just stick together. And it's it's hard at first to not get affected by that.

But yeah, do just have to remember that you're not performing for them. Exactly three or 4 or 5 or. Yeah, that are in that click that you don't like or don't like, you, you only see them a few times. If there's like a couple people that have never seen your stuff, even though they've seen it before and they hate it, Yeah, yeah. That's what happens. Yeah. You those are those little motivation moments that you're like, okay, fuck, I am funny, Yeah, yeah. They're putting yourself out there on the internet and stuff too.

You know, it's like, you know, like somebody is going to see you maybe that you don't have a great relationship with or whatever. But once you get over that shit and you just put it out there for because you know that that energy is inside you, I just need to get it out. It feels right. Fuck it. That's like all you can do, dude. Have a good ass day. Yeah. that first, comedy battle or not battle, the comedy Rumble, which was a competition single round elimination. You're going against people like I like I said, at that time, I'd only done it 11 times.

I've only been doing it for a couple months. And, I ended up winning, and I, I had maybe eight minutes of material. You have to start out with a brand new minute. You've never done anywhere. Oh, well. Okay. Yeah, it with friends, but it's it's head to head. So like one person versus one person, and whoever wins goes to the next round. And then you do three whatever material crowd gets to vote. And then from there the winners go, you know, elimination. Then it's five minutes versus five minutes, and whoever wins that gets to close the show by doing ten minutes.

Oh my God. Okay, that's an exhausting night, dude. I'm emotional. I had about eight minutes. Like three minutes were solid. The five minutes after were a you. Know, I was it was fun, but awful. Yeah, I bet I even joked about it. But it was it was a good experience because you're up there and you just have to remember in that moment that that room already likes you. That's why you're there. Yeah. Yeah. at a point where, like some of the people are leaving because they're like, all right, I, you know, I've seen enough of him.

Yeah, yeah. All right, I get the gist. We can go now. Yeah. but then, like, it's cool because like, you're, you're almost more comfortable because, you know, even though you have those nerves before you go up, as soon as you get offstage, if your set goes remotely. Well, there's like, you feel great, you're almost a little cocky. You feel like amped up. You know, if you're goes good. Yeah. jacked. So like going up multiple times in a night. I think it's kind of a better thing.

Almost. Yeah. As long as you're. By the time I hit that five minute set, even though it wasn't super tight like I was home with it Yeah. Play around with it. That makes sense. Yeah. Just get some nerves chilling. I think I just had a lot of friends there. You know? Team Ninja showed up Yeah, yeah. Bunch of other tattooer buddies of ours. But yeah, like, because of that, I actually was on this other podcast and a tattooer in our community that I will not name, Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Totally catching strays from this person. And I didn't know because I don't like I didn't really wasn't aware that I was following them. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, like, I see something, and I was like, am I a story? And I was like, what is this? You know, because I didn't post very much. Yeah. And in the story it had mentioned me and they were basically like mimicking my clip that I had posted online Well, jeez, you heard it there. Yeah. That's some fucking tattooing. Like, the funny thing to me about it was like, at first I was kind of offended, but like two things.

One, they said that, you know, my wife Donna. So Donna was happy about that. Yeah. I, I got over real quick was like, they had basically, like, rehearsed my whole set. Whoa. Yeah, yeah, they took all this time out of their evening to, like, I'm taking up space in your right. Yeah. space in mind. Like you came out of nowhere and it was like, at no point did it in this podcast that I did. Did I claim to be the first tattooer doing comedy Yeah. Any of that stuff? Yeah. I'm super humble about what I do.

Like there's this fine line of like, I'm trying to own it and be like, yeah, I'm funny and I'm good at what I do, but also like, I'm new and I'm learning and I'm humble. You know, there's that fine line and then you get this from someone who's like, oh, you're not the first person to do tattoos in comedy. And like, oh geez. Yeah, anything, post and post and like tagging me and stuff Good lord, they're coming after you. That's fun. That's weird to me. The more you put yourself out there, though, the more likely it is happen like that.

And, I think it's just like, yeah, you know, just like tattooing, there's, any community, think that they're better than other For me, I don't ever want to, like, have that mentality. I refuse to be that way. Yeah. we I feel like we all grew up with bullies, like people look at me, well, not getting bullied. And I was like, I got hold. Of the fence. Yeah, yeah. No no, no, it's these are my thorns. Yeah, I know it. Well, one thing I learned about the tattoo industry. Well, growing up, like when we were, when it, when I grew up, like, you don't just go out there and talk shit like that unless you're ready to fucking go.

Go to the parking lot. So it's funny to me when really when people like, get up there and they say, and especially you, your biggest fuck and you train. So it's like, how fucking dumb are you to people just never think that it's going to go there or I don't know. Yeah. It like not that it would, but you know, everybody's been pretty cool. There's there's only a handful of people that have had weird encounters with. But I just try to shake it off and just Yeah, if you just look at it like that's a problem that they have and it's something that like they're seeing something in me that they don't like, and it's a reflection of them Yeah.

projecting. And so if you kind of approach it like that and try not to let it get to you, just put your head down and keep doing work and do the right things, you're going to go further than they are Hey, a quick pause. If you're a tattoo artist than you already know you can't afford to gamble on your supplies, right? That's exactly why we built Maverick Supply Co to give artists access to quality cartridges. Shop essentials gear they can actually rely on. So if you want supplies to be one less thing to worry about in your shop, scan the QR code on the screen.

Hit the link below the show notes and use the code S, y, Lt for 10% off. Now back to the show. I saw this tattoo where he was. He knew where to do in content and stuff, and he was real into it. And he was trying. And it's it looks really nice. And, he was getting fucking roasted, dude, in the comments, you know, just getting roasted. Yeah. And I was like, I looked at it and I was like, I see your vulnerability. I see what you're doing. It's fucking hard. Like, I'm on the internet all the time fucking running my mouth.

And I feel dumb doing it, but it is what it is. And we got something to tell people. So, but anyway, he was getting roasted and his only comment back to this one dude that was just digging into him. He's like, who hurt you, bro? And I just my wife and I use that all the time now. Like, who are you, bro? Like, why are you so fucking mad? Like, it's just a fucking people on the internet doing shit like, get the fuck on. Yeah, yeah. Who hurt you, bro? Oh, post, it's straight to the comments Good.

going to get better on Instagram. No, I heard it's nasty over there. I thought Instagram was bad for the comments section. Threads is just fucking That's what I heard. I never go over there like people will post and ask like, hey, what's this? And like expecting to get like a helpful Yeah, they're like dumb fuck like roast you've ever You like five swipes, There's just 45 people all talking shit I wonder what it is. It's like as soon as it turns to text only. It's just basically the whole forum is the comment section.

Yeah. It was just too, but like, it's definitely more like how Twitter X or whatever fuck you want to call. It's more like that okay. Yeah. I had a grown man call me a dork on Instagram this week. I was like, I prefer nerd, but like, you know, fucking it is what it is from fucking. I cut down a tree or some shit and I videoed it. And then I was just, like, went crazy in the comments of, like, you fucking dork. And I was like, oh dang. you want to get depressed, quick, post something personal on social media.

Where do you stand up? Yeah, yeah, I would think so, man. Like, yeah, I fucking, tried to, I tried I it was only my second time I spoke at this all women's tattooer conference, which is an emotional room, you know, like, I don't know what it is, and you just stand in front of, like, 45 women and you just feel like, oh, I'm going to fucking cry at any time. Yeah. And my wife was crushing it during the thing, and her friend was crushing it. And then it came to my part and I was all, words on the screen, you know, it's like, I can't even imagine how hard it is to, like, remember content.

I was just trying to read in front of people, and I was like, this is hard Yeah. Well, an even when you remember your set, like, that's where it's tough to like when you first start, you obviously don't have a whole lot of content to do. And so a lot of it is trying to do the same thing over and over again. But then you'll have people being like, hey, try saying it, try saying other stuff, that's cool, I want to, but I don't know what I'm doing here, you know? So you're trying to figure it out and, you know, as you're working it out and doing it, you kind of figure things out along the way and you get better at it.

And, you know, just kind of builds from Yeah. And the helpful community is it's always just great to have it, even if it's just two people that, you know, genuinely give a fuck about your presence and you like moving forward. If they're just in that audience, it'll kind of out power like that energy is really what you need in a show. Yeah. if you're like reacting, like if I say something and you're like gasping or like groaning, that's a response. like yeah. You know yeah sometimes that adds to the show.

That's part of it, you know what I mean? But like, I would rather someone do that than just not hear anything, Yeah. Oh it's like that's got to be terrifying. especially when, like, you hit a punch Yeah I usually get laughs there, and then all of a sudden you're like. What? I fucking love going to comedy shows. It was a great time seeing you the other night. And you, you do hold yourself very well and confident and, you command a presence. It's great. Dude, it was really fun.

And it just felt really natural. Like to watch you there. Not just because I knew you, like, just the way that you just held your own in the room was fun. definitely one of those things where, like, I'm sure it's a cliche, but fake it til you make, you know? Yeah, inside you're peeing and diarrhea. Helps because you're going, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. think now that I'm hosting this show that I'm producing and hosting, with a co-host and Yeah, cut lip, with that show, because it's That's Willie's wife.

Yeah, it's Willie's life. Oh my God. Okay, even six degrees of separation. Yes. Yeah. Together. Willie cut lip a great tattoo where I pronounced him actually, like, a very long time ago. That's wild. I didn't put those two together. think that because it's our show and it's, you know, you go into it being like, this is my show. People are here to see me. You know, like you have to have a little bit of that kind of confidence and cockiness to command that presence. And if you're authentic about it and you're really putting it out there, the audience can feel that.

And so in a weird way, you're kind of acting, but you're acting like yourself, just like a more confident, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like if you just drink and did a couple lines yeah, you're like the fucking get your motor running. influences? Who are your comedy influences? man. People always ask me that. And it's so all over the place, like, I definitely can't name like Yeah. number one just because, like, even with well there's so many different styles of you're in love with you.

Yeah. And I think that part of, like, what makes you good at anything is being able to appreciate it for what it is and the nuances and the different aspects of it. Like for tattooing, for example, I started out doing kind of a traditional neo traditional Yeah. And now I do more, dude, yeah, I was just saw that full back piece you'd posted the other day with some biomass mixed in two plus like this. It looked so good. Yeah, it was like, really fucking sick, dude. example. That's a blend of different styles that you learn over time.

Yeah, and I haven't. I personally haven't seen anybody like collectively put together like one piece that had biomass and this like metal fucking black and gray like. Yeah. Why I wanted to do that as I wanted to throw that out there and do stuff that I would want to get tattooed on me, or just stuff that I haven't seen yet. Because just like comedy, just like anything, it's hard to come up with something new. So that's where that comes in, is having an appreciation from so many different things, be it tattooing or comedy.

And I'm able to kind of keep the train on the tracks this time. And remember the question, Yeah, yeah. That's called the callback. Right. Okay. I don't think that is, you know, but I'm trying to not distract you. Sorry. now. But I love everything. Like growing up, you know, as a kid, like doing comedy now. It's like making me go through a lot of my memories Yeah. you know, doing, like I said, it's unraveling. I'm going through therapy in a way, actually doing therapy and doing this as therapy.

But a lot of those influences early on, you know, Pee-Wee Herman, yeah, like Mork and Mindy watching Robin Williams, you know, just people like that that were just so over-the-top silly, goofy It's amazing. Some Ace Ventura, some. Yeah. Yeah. My I just taught my son how to talk out of his butt cheeks. Yeah. Yeah. He hasn't stopped. Yeah. But like, everything from, like those guys that, you know, like, obviously like they're killers, that comedy, but they're not really known for their stand up there and Yeah.

acting like comedic acting roles. Those dudes. And then even, like, more new guys, like, currently, like Adam Ray is probably one of my favorites. I love him, he does a bunch of different impressions. He does Doctor Phil, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I had to, like, research. Who the hell he was because I, he was. Yeah, he was funny as fuck. his impressions, his improv, his stand up. He's goofy and silly, he can roast. He he's just. Yeah. so good at what he does that like I watched him at wiseguys and.

Oh really? like recently. Yeah. Like I forget when he came out and and did it, but like watching it, doing it now you watch it in a different lens. Yeah. watching him work like that, you know, you're like confident. You're like, oh, I've been doing good. You know. And then you go and you see someone like that do it and you're like, fuck yeah. That's so far away, you know? But like, he was just a master of his craft. It was a masterclass. Oh, that's so cool. Like he just did this whole bit where there was these guys in the audience and he, like, talked to them and made jokes along the way.

One about his other material came back and was like, you guys mind if I, A new joke that I just wrote today, and it's this whole made up improv joke about that group of dudes with all the details. They were accurate and it was funny, and it was in damn, yeah, to to see him do that and stumble as much as I do with, like trying to improv like that, that was just like, it almost makes you feel like, fuck, dude, how can I even get to that dude? The sort of sharpened, To make Doctor Phil funny, that's hard enough Yeah, yeah.

Like brilliant with it. Doctor Phil was on Doctor Phil Yes. Yeah. Hilarious. Yeah. a good sense of humor about the whole thing. He has to. Yeah. One of my favorite things too though, is like at this age I don't want to call us old, but there's not too many people that have the nuts to go out and try something. So incredibly new and put themselves in this incredibly vulnerable state, much less put it on stage with everybody's eyes like, I think it's a human. It's human nature to and essentially just be terrified of public speaking.

Right. And then you just all of a sudden you're like, fuck it, I'm I forgot how old you are. You're like 45. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a tattooer, if you went through a proper apprenticeship. But I'm stoked for you. And I feel like I'm like, you know, not that you need to, but I'm, like, proud of. It's just cool as fuck to see from a friend. I love when when people just get the fuck out there, push themselves. And that right there honestly, is like one of the most intimidating things to to just start.

I've always loved doing difficult things. So yeah, it's great. there's like something in me like, I just, I have, you know like ever. It's fucking trendy now for everyone to have anxiety. But like, again, I've learned a lot about myself. I'm like, okay, I've got ADHD know. Yeah. and like I'm like, this is why I'm kind of fucking neurotic. And if I do hard things, it kind of like sharpens that focus Yeah, yeah. I'm like quiet some of the distraction. I can totally see that. Yeah.

I mean, I mean, I see it. Yeah. Yeah. Learning things every day, you know, is. And are you and you and and you get, you know, we're even though we're older, we're still kind of impatient and, you know, like just learning something. And sometimes I'm just like, fuck, I just need to know this. But that's something doing comedy, too, that, like, I like to tell people because they're like, what's it been like starting out? And it's it's awesome. The risk is worth the reward. And like, yeah, you going.

But doing it, it's like going into high school. It's a new high school. Everybody's got their cliques. You're trying to figure out how to go to high school Yeah, yeah. It's your first first day of ninth grade. You got pushed up against the lockers. Yeah. Holy shit. Nike's. Yeah. Everybody knows the rules. Yeah, everybody's got their clicks. Yeah. And you got, like, you find yourself sometimes holding back because you like, I don't know, you don't want to offend, maybe a peer or something.

And then you have to. Not necessarily. Good. Yeah. anything, it's, I try not to, like, overstep my bounds with people, you know, because, like, you don't, you're still the new kid on the block. Yeah. It's like you're filling out that room at the same time. You're filling out the room. You're trying to perform, and. Right, I'm trying to see, like, what the proper way to approach to be like, hey, I would love to be a part of your show at some point, you know? But if that person kind of doesn't really know me, then they're like, why the fuck what I trust you to go up there?

Yeah, but you just got to show up support, put yourself where you want to be. You know, you you get to know them. They hear about you or they see you. Then that's how it happens. And I mean, honestly, like I try to show up in that space how I want to be treated. Yeah, super kind, super respectful. I'm there to have a good time. Like the world's fucked up. Yeah, we need to fight with ourselves? Like, that's we're here to make people right, right, right. Everyone's there Yeah, yeah, yeah.

thing that I don't understand about the comedy community. It's supposed to be a community. Yeah. It's a community. Yeah, I understand that to a degree, there is a certain amount of, like, competing for the same market, but at the same time, like is there, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like if you all, like, work together and keep the scumbags, whoever they may be, out of it, then the community is good and there is no issues. thing. All right, all right, all right.

Dropping it, dropping it like it's hot. So I also saw the, you you were starting to potentially go do comedy shows in other cities and mix it with guest spots, which I thought was cool as fuck. Yeah. Yeah, that was something I was kind of starting to work out and doing, the first time I went out and did it in LA, there was a few spots that just kind of fell through. And that's the other thing with comedy too, is that in comedy, like, there will be a room that'll be set up and they'll invite you out to do it, and then next thing you know, you'll have them hit you up and be like, hey, sorry.

Like that business is closed. Or like they don't want to do comedy there anymore. And so it ends up being like just a cancellation and you're like, okay, well, shit, I made plans for that. And so you plan for anything else. Yeah, I'm at that point where I'm not like, well enough established. I can just go hit someone up and get in. But Yeah. a few connections that can help, help get me into those to, like, like an open mic type setting or, like, kind of. Yeah. Because it's, you know.

Yeah, but out there you have to pay for your spots. So You want like a five minute spot, it's like ten bucks or five bucks or something like that, which is fine. I'd pay Yeah, yeah. you know, you're you're a lot of times you're showing up at these rooms and it's 30 comics or 20 You got to put in time. Yeah. are just waiting for their turn to talk. shit thing. But I like the concept. If you could go, like, you know, get, like, a good formula down the road, kill two birds, one stone.

You're out there doing a fucking couple of tattoos, and then at night, go get in on an any type of, like, comedy show or whatever. That'd be fucking rad, dude. it would work. Well, I mean, it's it's been working well for me right now. Doing comedy at night and tattooing during Yeah. That's cool. We have a we don't have to wake up too early. Yeah, yeah. but and I saw the opportunity there to like, go places that I know people do a little work, make some money and then, you know, tackle this on the side and try and, you know, build my material in a different room.

Yeah. It's just it is a little tricky sometimes just trying to get to know people and get in the industry. But the more I do it here, the more name I build for myself, and then the more that that ripples out into the comedy Yeah. What are some weird distractions that you've seen so far, like while you're on stage or something? Is there anything you're just like, do you like a glare? Like a nasty glare or a short skirt or something? You know, it's like, what the fuck? This is like fucking up my train of thought.

Yeah, yeah. Like play into that. Yeah. I like the first, in the comedy Rumble, when I won on the three minute round that I did, I was talking about being bald, that there was a dude in the front row, like, with his arms crossed, and he's like I see you. You're fucking. We balding has a cul de sac. So those moments work like if someone's glaring and it works in that moment, you can call it out. And it's funny. Yeah, that's not a distraction. And help them feel more comfortable with the whole experience.

Maybe. Or like, part of, like, reading the room, you know, like you can kind of like once you get comfortable, you can fuck around like that. But where it gets hard and like that's how you get better at it is by being like these dive bars. Yeah. When people just yell out random shit like heckling, you know? Yeah. that they're helping, that's a distraction, you know, yeah, you'll say something and before you even get to what you're talking about, because you use certain words or talk about a certain person or politician, all of a sudden now they're like, boo, you know?

I'm like, oh God, yeah, yeah. You know, it kind of throws you off. Yeah, I didn't even fucking say anything yet. You know, like I just said Biden or I just said Trump and you like. and it's not even And they had like a couple of whiskeys in them already or like, feel like right now has got to be the hardest time to be a comedian, because anything you say, somebody can take in the wrong context. And we all know everybody is just offended mad easy these days. So that's got to be hard.

Writing new material going what am I not gonna who am I not gonna offend with? But like that's the thing is that you have to approach it in a way that you're not trying to punch down, You know. Yeah. And like, again, people are going to, like, be offended because they're offended. And it's but the thing is, is it's not my job to manage your Yeah. my side of the street clean. You keep yours clean. If there's something that, like I'm saying, or any other comedian is saying and you don't like it, you don't have to laugh.

Yeah, yeah. Change the fucking channel like it's early up there. there's like a small portion of truth. Sometimes there's more truth, but it's a lot of times you're making shit up, like I'm trying to have a funny perspective, like you're exaggerating an idea, like you're like, hey, don't you guys think it's weird that this and this is going on? And people are like, yeah, that is kind of weird, but you're doing in a way that's like over the top that you're like shining a magnifying glass on it.

Yeah, it up and people just they can't get past the, the words that you're saying because they've been so programed to be upset and feel a certain way, tribalism that people are like subscribing to that, like, the thing is, is like those people like, they're fanatics, you know, like you're not going to. Yeah, exactly. And then nothing you're going to say you want to sit down and talk to somebody about like politics or religion or any of that stuff and like actually have a discourse if you're trying to, like, persuade the other person, you're you already lost.

Yeah, yeah. Is it approach conversations like that. They approach it like, I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm going to tell you why Yeah. Being like, hey, this is how I feel. You might not agree with it, but this is how I feel and why. How do you feel? And you go, well, I feel like this. And this is why it's like, that's crazy. I never thought about like that. That's how conversations should should go. Yeah. people get their ego involved and they get self-absorbed and they're so worried about like, stuck on their position.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm reading a book about that right now, actually, too seriously these days. That's why I'm doing comedy. So let's get into like a, let's get into you've been tattooing since 2002. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm terrible with how long it's been. I know, I know. Yeah, I did shop that it started. It started out in, woodland Hills. Body and Soul Tattoo. It's no longer there, I don't really, Yeah. It was it was rad. The the dude that I was learning from this guy Dana, he actually, was one of the ones that was like tattooing me regularly.

I'd gotten a couple tattoos at other shops and never really found, like, a spot that I found to be, like, home and just going there, like the vibe was different. It was down on Ventura Boulevard, and it was just a different shop than any of the other shops I'd been in. And so I went in there and he had done this rad BioMed sleeve on the piercer there, Nick Ennis. Yeah. I just remember seeing that thing and it was just fucking mind blown, you know? So I get tattooed by him and I would bring my sketchbook in like just being like, hey, these are just some ideas.

I have to get tattooed. And he like, wasn't a dick about it. He was like the first tattoo. Yeah, that's almost like how we. Yeah. Is like fully like show us cards, but like, he was the first person who was actually, like, genuinely like, interested, like, oh, shit. Like you drew these and I'm like, yeah. And he's like, oh, that's that's fucking cool. And like, he would do a lot of the tattoos that I wanted, like pretty close to the drawings. And so I was like, oh shit. Me again seemed like with comedy, maybe I've got something here, maybe I can be a tattoo.

Yeah, other tattooers before in the past when I was getting tattooed, like, oh, what would it take to be a tattoo? Or and I'm sure you guys remember what I was like. That was not a good nope, nope. And you learn that real quick. Yeah. and then finally, like, he's like, he he asked me one time, he goes, why didn't you never ask me to do an apprenticeship? Or why did you never ask me about tattooing? And I was like, honestly, I liked getting tattooed by you. And I didn't want to ruin the relationship because anybody had ever asked before that became super cold and like, would just like, didn't seem like they tried as hard on the tattoo or just would be very dismissive.

And for me, I'm like, I I would yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get that. I kind of brought that there. But like, again, like I didn't approach that situation with any ill will. Like I wasn't trying to open up a shop next door Yeah. Yeah. that's it's so weird to me that that's that mentality that that was, What do you think about tattooing right now? It feels like, everybody's fucking quitting. I don't know, this last year, I think we're. Are we leveling out? That thought has crossed my mind, too.

It's, It's not like I want to quit or give up. Yeah, about, like, how much I struggled early on and try to get it, you know, but you get to a point where you kind of feel like it's like being in a relationship, you know, like I've put so much into tattooing and it feels like there's a lot of give and not a lot of receiving back, you know? I mean, especially like when it starts slowing down, Yeah. kind of like you start thinking about like, well, what am I doing wrong that these other people you try not to look at other Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Easier said than done. He has it is only human. And I'll admit, like, I'll see people that I don't think are as skilled. Yeah. And that's just not me being a mean girl. That's just an honest judgment. Yeah. them being busier. And there's something about to them like, what are they doing differently? And I don't understand that, you know, so tattooing is in a weird spot where I feel, I don't know if it's my age. I don't know if it's because I'm doing comedy too, or I'm like, I'm just realizing a lot about myself.

But it's almost like I feel like I'm like, I'm in a relationship and I'm not being treated with respect. And I'm kind of like, I've put all this energy into this thing. Yeah, I have skills that transfer over at other things. But like during the winter, I got real rough and I was like, well, shit. Like I need to get a job elsewhere. And I'm like, I know I can. I'll go do labor, I don't Yeah, I'll do whatever. But like getting hired on at 45 history of doing that stuff is like, it's almost you're almost it's unrealistic.

Almost. Yeah. you aren't willing to let me in because I don't meet the entry level Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you know? What do you think it has to do? It is like so many new people post-Covid coming in. And then they blew up because post Covid also got incredibly easy to make a ton of money. And then I have a couple theories. I, I know again, I'm not any kind of totally. Yeah, I overthink everything and so I, I in this struggle of like what's happening what's going on. Like why is it like this?

I can't really started thinking about it. And I think there's a couple different things going on. I think with Covid, the money there was like it was like a hose that was crimps. People were like getting all this extra money. Yeah. It was unrealistic. If soon as we let down the restrictions, everybody's like, here's all my money. Yeah. Big shift in careers too. And interests. You know, people were fucking like three people in my shop quit that day, you know. So then they just went on to do other things or whatever.

And I mean, a lot of people got into tattooing was scary times. And then I think to like, you have that and then during the, the the shutdown, the lockdown, there was a lot of people that were going and buying tattoo equipment on the yeah, of my regular clients would come back Yep. Hey, don't be Did my full left sleeve. We talked about doing myself exactly like, oh, so much of it from knee to ankle all the way around the woods, scarred, fucked up, random sketchbook shit you've ever seen.

Gangster could not help. Yeah. She goes, I got to be honest, it's a lot harder than it looks. I'm back. I'm now being customer again. In the lesson, you got to live. With. That said, I don't have to be mad at you. My good lord, is that, like, there's a lot more people at home that they're like, well, I'm not paying for tattooing. There's like this whole rebellion against well. dues. And and listen, I don't think that people should be heys. I don't yeah. Think think that people should be sexually assaulted.

I don't think Well, yeah. Power to do any of those things and treat people poorly. But I also do think that people should earn the knowledge that they're given, Yeah. This used to be something sacred, that people respect. It. There's reasons why we didn't do certain things. There's reasons why we would make conditions for other things. There were rules, rules and those rules were there for a reason. It wasn't because it's like, no, we're being gatekeepers. It's like, no, we're doing this because it's not good for the industry.

We've done the research. These are the reasons why. And you get these new kids that come in, they're like, nah, fuck that. I'm going to do it my way. Yeah, you get these micro fine line tattoos. It's like we learn that lesson All right. Doing that. Yeah, I just and I'm not saying that there's people that don't do that, that don't do it well, but just these trends, these things come and go because people forget how bad they were. Yeah. You know, the demand is there too. And that's like, you know, when, when, when tattooing is slow and then there's all of a sudden all these people asking for this and you're like, okay, like, I'll figure it out.

I get it. like, you know, a lot of people were like was shit on dudes for selling out and doing that. But like at the end of the day, we provide a service. Yeah, I, on the other hand, there's certain times where I'm going to like pick and choose as far as, like what I'm going to do in terms of like, listen, I don't feel that you're going to get the tattoo you want. So as much as I need the money, I have to respectfully bow out. But so-and-so over here. Yeah. Do that. so that, like, they don't feel like I'm just like, nope, don't do that.

Too cool for school. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. but as far as, like, the industry changing, I think that on a whole other level think about like, when we were growing up, like. Our elders didn't really have tattoos. The people that did were gypsies and pirates and. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that dude seen some shit, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. know, like that's that's what it was like before. And I think that like, there was a certain amount of rebellion to it where like, you know, like my parents, I'm well, my mom's dead now, but my dad has fully tattooed you like he's got his whole back on.

I've done a bunch of Yeah. and he was so pissed at me when I came home with my first Yeah. This weird full circle moment down the road to have, like, changed his mind to where he accepted it in a way that, like, I'm doing this whole back piece like that's wild to me, but like, that's cool. That's how tattooing was like, yeah, like prove yourself and you like, there was a rebellion to it. And I think that now, because we're all now getting older and like you look around at schools, like I remember at first I was kind of like, you know, having a, a slightly older wife and having kids already, I'm like the young, heavily tattooed dad most of the time at the schools.

And there'd be maybe like 1 or 2 other dads that had like a couple visible tattoos, but everybody else was kind of hidden. Now, as time is going on, you're seeing like multiples oh my God, people that look just like you that. Right? tattooed and you're like, oh shit, this is my peer group. That's why. And so I think that there's this thing where you have this rebellion against having tattoos, where, yeah, kids now, again, smaller tattoos not as visible. They're they're two less of a commitment.

Exactly. You're thinking about you can jump in at a cheaper price here and there. But there's also I don't know if you see like an insane amount of really young people getting tattooed like heavily tattooed. Yeah. Like we get calls all the fucking time and we're constantly like, what, 15? You want your kid to get like a half sleeve and you're like, no, dude. Like, time, I can't help but feel like if you're a 15 year old is trying to get tattooed, that's most likely the least problem Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

the tattooing is nothing compared to the other shit that yeah, yeah, it is tough because I feel like it's one of those situations where age limits on things are there for a Yeah. Like your body's still changing. Yeah, yeah. for me, I always use the approach of like I just tell people straight up, like, I know that out here, the age of consent is 16 with a parent to get tattooed. But for me, the way I break it down, I go, listen, statutory rape is defined as penetration on the minor with a foreign object.

Oh, God, is a tattoo okay, I'm just nod. Yeah. I just think about if I got every tattoo that I wanted when I was 14 years old, I'd be covered in Metallica tattoos Yeah, I that's that's kind of tied. There doing a sphere residency. Yeah. It'd be full circle. You would be the coolest kid of the park. Like we were headed towards there were industry standards for so long in this business. You know what I mean? Like, for for 20 years, there was a $20 difference in minimum prices from shop to shop to shop.

And now, I mean, everybody follow someone on Instagram that posts these $15,000 sleeves Yeah. You how much they're paying for it. Or at the same time, you're also following Colesville, who's got a $10 minimum. Yeah. the where's the industry standard? This guy's starting his prices at, you know, $3,500 a day, and then you get the $10 shop and it's like there's just no standard Yeah. Oh, cause it kind of causes the insecurity, too. And the artists where you're like, where's my identity?

Where, where do I fit into this spectrum of, like, this is a crazy. Yeah. earlier too. It's like you struggle to be like, well, I feel like I'm worth this much, but then you're like looking at other stuff. You're like, well, I'm seeing this dude. He's not that great. And he's in the street, like, I should be charging more, but then you see somebody else who's better than you, and they're charging last. You like, I'm so confused. Yeah, yeah, I get it, people are trying to do what they gotta do to to survive.

But I definitely feel like, you know, there is some fuckery afoot with the way people are charging and, like, taking advantage of Yeah, I'm stoked that, like, tattooing has blown up and gotten to where it has. But it's at a point where it's like this, like, you know, too big to fail kind of a thing, where it gets to a point where, like, I hate to be that like old guy tattoo or it's like everything's like saturated. That's the thing too. Yeah. wants to do it a proper apprenticeship.

They fucking go through their YouTube apprenticeship or they binge watch Ink Master and they order the machine off of, you the Amazon. Yeah. next thing you know, they are opening a shop because they've got funding from somebody and it's like and five friends are learning. They're teaching five friends tattoo. Yeah. It's pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah. not trying to say like that. Someone shouldn't be able to do that. Like they I really don't think they should. But like if that's something they should, if that's if that's something that they want to do, then I don't think that like, they should have the success Yeah.

It's hard though. Yeah I know, I know. But then there's also this like punk rock side of tattooing that it's like you just got into it and you figured it out. However the fuck you figured it out and you know, you didn't follow the rules. So I kind of get it too, but, you know, yeah. Yeah. So it's it's has to be organized chaos. You right be a little bit of semblance there because otherwise, you know, like even with, like if you want to use art or painting as an example, Jackson Pollock, like, it's Yeah, But it still has a canvas.

It's still framed. There's still it's still contained, Yeah. It's not just you walk into the gallery, it's everywhere Yeah. this is insane. I what am I looking at here? You know, like it's controlled Yeah, That's what tattooing should be like. You should be a bit of a gypsy. You should be a bit of a pirate. You should break the Yeah. you need to learn the rules and know the rules first before you break them. Yeah, they'll make you better in the long run. We'll talk shit about Pablo Picasso and like, oh, there's Cubism.

Like, oh, that fucking idiot. Like, what is this? This is art. Like, Yeah, looks like. That's not what a guitarist looks like. But then you look at his life studies like his Yeah. Holy shit. Dude, like one of the best. Yeah. That you've ever seen. Yeah. To me, Pollock two. Same thing with Pollock rules. and they knew them so well that they can break them and still have enough structured chaos there, could understand what was What's that quote he says it took me a lifelong, journey as an artist to learn how to draw like a child, you know, just like is cool.

You just goes to show how, like, yeah, all that time and energy put into there. Once you execute it in whatever shape or form you choose, and you obviously have a lot more to put in there. I'm like mumbling right now, but yeah, I mean, like we're all fucking tattooers. Yeah, I always use that as like, I'm like, and I don't want to take it too seriously, you know? I want to have fun. my insight on the industry and like, I'm not saying that like what I have to say is like the fucking be all end all, like I always just use I go, look, I'm just a fucking tattoo, or I Yeah, yeah, yeah.

you know, I just. I feel like there are certain things that were established for a reason, and people should maybe follow some of those things. I fucking love what you're doing with your comedy. It's so fun. It's really cool to see you. Like I said, step out. It takes a lot of nuts to just get up there on stage and push yourself to do something that is so incredibly unique and different and new. And I can't even imagine how humbling that experience is. And I think that'll take you and make you even stronger and also like, maybe even help network your tattooing, you know, like, I think that's cool.

Yeah. To me, at shows would be like, you a tattoo. Yeah. Follow my. Yeah. That's fucking great, dude. Yeah. crazy. Like, I always said that, like I refused to do, like this fucking TikTok thing to be Yeah, yeah. Like I'm not going to do this. Yeah. dumb enough, like to promote comedy stuff. I've been making skits and doing silly Yeah. Cool. I guess for me it just it feels more on brand to be silly. As a comedian and promote a comedy show than it does to be a tattooer. Yeah. You know, mean.

Yeah. It's just your thing. Yeah. serious, but I'm not like one of those serious business guys that, like, tries to be, oh, you better fucking take me seriously. Yeah, I just, I don't know, like, I'm not shitting on people who do those TikTok type videos, but just. I got into tattooing because I didn't want to, like, be responsible This is. Yeah. Yeah. Like, manage your emotions and you're like, yeah. therapy, and I got to be a businessman, and I got to be an influencer, and I got to learn the internet.

I It's a lot. It really is a lot right now. It's just the most I think, you know, and I don't think this is obviously just in tattooing. I think all across the board like to promote yourself in general. You're now like if you're providing this service or whatever you trying to prove your skill set out there. And then you also have to learn how to be a media production company and, be take all the time to do everything else time in tattooing where putting out a good product was all you needed Yeah.

If you put out a good tattoo, you were going to be successful. I mean, sailor Jerry, his famous words were my work speaks for Yeah. you know, and like, that's that's something that I feel is to a degree, missing. But at the same time, I also understand like that it is to a degree, I think, good for business to have as much competition, if you want to Yeah. because that just makes you want to be better. It separates the weak, you know, and do I like the way some of this is happening?

No. But at the same time, like some of these people that are quitting, they know, like like I said, I thought about doing it, but like, I didn't. Yeah. I feel like it if, if, if you can't handle the heat, you're going to get out. Right? Dude. It and it's fucking hot out there right now and, and you basically have to take on now just basically spending any, spare time when you're not tattooing or drawing, you need to be using that spare time to be honing your craft in your communication skills to and from tattooing a few years ago, and I that was one of my questions was, and how are you dealing with it?

Because I know how I'm dealing with it and I ain't dealing with it well at all. And his whole thing was, well, I didn't walk away from the tattooing that I got into. yeah, business has changed so much that walking away from this is not hard to do at this point, because it doesn't resemble in any way, shape or form what you fell in love with. And I think that's the thing that people aren't talking about right now, is that while, yes, you yeah has changed and you have to adapt or die, but that's the thing too, is that like there's a certain amount of it that like, again, part of why you got into doing it was because you felt like you didn't fit in in these other worlds.

And this made sense because this was what you had to do. Now that that's changed, you're kind of like, well, fuck, now I don't fit in anymore, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. And as artists, we fall in and out of love with a lot of different things in our lives, you know? So when you're really into it, you're fucking into it. And I may eat up 15, 20 years and then you're just like, seeing those and chasing those butterflies. All of a sudden you're like, oh, well, squirrel over here, this isn't as fun anymore.

So but it's hard as fuck when you get older to be able to make that transition to into anything else. So you've got to plan and work hard and play the game to get to the next level or sure. Well, and I feel like I've always been the type to sort of adapt in my own way, you know, like I'm adapting to this change in thing. Yeah. As much as I feel comfortable doing enough to stay relevant enough to do what I'm doing, but I'm also doing other things, you know, like, again, like, like you said, you fallen out of love things.

I, I still love tattooing, but after doing comedy and talking about it and like having especially after doing it a couple times and like getting the feedback I got like that was the other thing is like my first time up did my whole five minutes. I got laughs throughout. It wasn't a killer. Yeah, and it was what I expected. And because I didn't do that, I thought I sucked and I didn't want to go back up again. We have an intermission. All the comics that are on the show come over and they're like, dude, that was your first time ever.

That was yeah. do you mean? They're like, you're funny. Your setups and punchlines are great. And I'm like, oh, I forgot this. I fucked up there like, nobody knows that about you. and that was like a oh shit moment. Yeah. They're like, listen, you looked a little nervous and you probably could slow. There's a couple notes I could give you. Like, you look like you're new at it, but you look like you've been doing it for like a year or Yeah. to hear that your first time, you look like you've been doing it for a minute.

You're like, oh, shit. Okay, maybe there's something to this. Yeah. So then that carries you on to keep going, and then you do my next set. I did it wise guys. When when they had the open mic in the Arts district. And that room was intimidating. But it was a kill box. That place was so sick. But it's a real comedy club. Like it's a That's cool. That's not on the strip and it's not an open mic. So getting to do stand up my second time ever in there and having it be a full room, going up early in the night and like having a good set, then having like another comedian come up and tell me, this kid Jake Wolf, he's fucking hilarious.

His dad's Josh Wolf, Oh, so fucking hilarious. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he came up. Yeah. Are you. Where'd you come from? Your shit's funny. And he's like, you got time to talk. We talked in the lobby for like, 20 minutes and, like, just again, just that recognition by somebody who, Yeah. Your peers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like when you were learning about a tattoo. Tattooers weren't like, oh, dude, your stuff is good. Yeah, I wouldn't say yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah I was yeah, yeah yeah.

that's where comedy is different from tattooing is that I felt like and I don't know, maybe it's only my experience and I just had the right set of skills and the presence and whatever Early on, I'm like, Holy shit, who is this guy? So again, that was a ripple effect and it was infectious and I So like I got to a point where like I was again leaning into it and I was excited Yeah. I felt like I had purpose. And like, tattooing fills you with a purpose Yeah. Well, yeah. But like doing comedy, it's one of those things where I've always said, like, nothing makes me happier than making people laugh, Yeah, And like and then like after doing it and like then telling people like, it's almost like I'm saying it and I'm realizing at the same time I'm like, oh shit.

Like, like the most important. Like nothing feels better than, like getting people to laugh. Like yeah, it. You're saying I can't? There's nothing like it, you know? Yeah. Like after doing that, like, I always thought that tattooing was basically going to be like, that's what I'm done. Like, you know, that's what I'm known for. And now I'm kind of like, that's still there. Yeah, yeah. And you're still in love with it. also like, but maybe I'm meant to be a comedian, Yeah. Well, anyway, I mean, you have a good night.

I'm sure it's rolling over in your next day while you're tattooing. Then it's like it makes it. Yeah, it makes that, experience. You're excited to tell your client about it or something. So then it kind of revamps your tattoo experience to on your, you know, during your day, you know, like it's comedy is a lot about that kinetic energy in that motion. Yeah. I'm already like riding that wave in that energy and I'm, I had a good night and I'm coming in and it's a great client radio client, or even if it's a first time on and they're excited like that excitement.

Like I like to like work with that Yeah. Just like feed into it and like it definitely like continues to ripple. And Yeah. You have that positive, fun, upbeat energy, it just I don't know how many people that I've barely tattooed one time that come back and get another tattoo and also come out and see a show. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. Started I was like not embarrassed, but I just didn't think that people would think it was like, cool. Like, who wants to go see an open mic Yeah, there's always this like negative, like, you know, like it's very hack, it's very cool.

Yeah. No I did 2 degree. It's like it'd be like me being like, hey man, I just recently learned how to play Yeah. You want to come see this? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally. playing a set at Guitar Center in Town Square. I don't know why. I was just thinking about I. We were at the Hardhat Lounge downtown. They had a used to have an open mic night there, and, I went in with my wife, and we were pretty freaking drunk. Dude. Like pretty hammered. There was only like, four people in there.

And Hannibal Burse walks in and then signs in and they let him go up there. And we were so fucking drunk. I still feel bad about this. We we were so excited that he was just standing in front of us. We were just talking loud. Yeah, yeah. And we were like, oh my God, Holy shit, dude. Like, what the fuck? He's like, right there. That's I don't know why. It was just like one of those dumber moments. Yeah. I'm like, I'm fucking grown, man. What? I was just like, oh, God, he's fucking so funny.

Like, it's. So. Weird. Yes. The moon is a sad place to be. Oh my God. Well, shit. Dude, I think we should wrap it up, man. It was. It was super awesome. I Am I able to shout my Yes. Oh, yeah. So. Yes. Yeah. No, 1,000% Laughter Day Saints comedy on Instagram. And then my, my personal Instagram page is mine's actually met a verified. There's a blue checkmark next Okay okay. Jason Paxman Arts Yeah. all separated with underscores. okay. I purposely it's a motherfucker to like tell people it with the underscores.

But I did that because the other one was Jason Paxman. Tattoos. All one word. Yeah. I wanted to separate it enough to where people wouldn't accidentally click on it. But I tried to get Instagram to take that page Yeah, I even got meta verified on the other one, thinking that I would like give me a better like give access to it. Yeah, yeah. Phil's got shut down too. I know, it's it's fucking insane. Yeah, yeah. post a painting with a fucking nipple in it, my shit gets shut down.

But if somebody takes over my actual page and I have Yeah, I am forgetting half. Yeah. They don't. They're like, sorry, we don't know what to tell you. They have all your friends and people, you know, report the page. And I'm like, you know how many people have had tell me that they Right. Nothing's Yeah, yeah, I remember doing it and going through the process for you, but like 3 or 4 full days trying to, to handle all that and was like, I can't yeah, more Well, I'm a oh, it's upsetting.

Yeah, I'm going to just move on. And then as far as tattooing, we can find you at Bad Apple at Apple Tattoo, you guys just have one location hours still. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Which is ironically where I started my apprenticeship. Way before it was bad. Apple was accents and art. That's where I started my apprenticeship in that space. It was only one space. So we used to call it accidents and art and. Yeah. Yeah, because the guy's son used to do drugs and he'd fucking nodded off and zipped the line down.

This guy's back. Yeah, I actually met that dude at a party years later, randomly. It was like, you're the dude and you just had a full on peppered ass line just ripped into his ribs. Dude, dude just nodded off or whatever. Yeah. I have a picture of me getting paid by a why am I brain farting his name right now a little. He was a pit boss in Vegas. His daughter was a stripper and his son was a drug addict. Tattoo or just a great dude. Like, of fun. Like a family of characters?

Yeah, something like that. But anyway. Yeah, dude, I put in work in that space. I was, there it was five smoking ass tattooers in there, and we were the ones that knocked the walls down and opened it up when Dave Logue took it over and turned it into Mark five and yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I walked in to see you not too long ago, I can remember when it was, it was like, Holy shit, it's just a weird vibe, you know? You're like, dang, dude, I like has changed hands numerous times.

Yeah, yeah. And even to, like, rest in peace, Jesse. Girl, she owned it. To me and Jesse. We tattooed the dudes off bum fights. She did the knuckles, tattoos. They walked into the shop, and, she did. Rufus. Knuckles. The the most famous ones bum fights around the cover. And then I did, Donnie's forearms fk for life on his and yeah. any of those guys are still around. those dudes that they got better at fighting. They got into drywall, they got UFC, they got shows sober ish and, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's that's Rufus.

Anyway, that was a little tie then back to. Yeah. And then the shop was fucking then I think then Dave sold it to her or. No, Dave sold it to Justin and boom. And they turned it into Bad Apple. And then Jesse bought it, and then Ed and her bought it or something. Yeah, yeah. Like yeah. Now, how are you guys dealing with the $20 tattoo shop right down the block? I mean it is what it is like. I it's it's hard because like there's also like crazy construction going on on Charleston right.

Oh I know yeah. Moving up there. Yeah. Yeah. again, it's just there's a lot of factors all going in all at once. You know. Yeah. Always slows down. Like and that's the thing is like tattooing has been picking up for me a little Yeah. Yeah. it's like, okay, we're kind of resetting. It's kind of coming back, Yeah. Like it does. It's oddly enough, I don't know why. I don't know if you guys have ever made this connection, but tattooing you can almost time the slow season with football season.

Football season. Yeah. Politics too, all sorts of shit. Yeah. There's a lot of different things. Yeah. it seems like because football season also falls right around when people are getting their tax returns. Yeah. like had enough time away from the holidays to kind of recoup their costs. There. It's starting to warm up. It's almost like everybody's like, yeah, I fucking yeah, depressed anymore. I kind of feel, okay, let's go get a Yeah, yeah. With us being in Vegas too, we have a huge convention circuit right now.

So, and this year's booked out more supposedly than the last, like, for some shit. So tourism was down? Yeah, like, a lot of it, like the parking rate hikes, the Yeah. like, it's just they're doing dumb shit to, like, not only fuck with tourism, but locals Yeah. just I think that that also is another factor for us locally that we're feeling in terms of tattooing, that maybe other cities aren't dealing that. Yeah. winter time, the economy, politics, Yeah. Fucking crazy right? Yeah.

I'm like, oh, you don't want to get a dick tattooed Yeah. We have the craziest community for tattooing here. Like, it's it's, the ecosystem is so strange. We have everything from, like, we talked about, like, the $10 tattoo shops to the glorious fucking giant two story tattoo shops inside the casinos. You know, it's. And it is all over the place. A lot of it, too, in every aspect. So that's funny you were talking about the, the, the guys at left, cool ville, cool ville or whatever, and opened up like that shop.

Was that near you guys too, or whatever? Well, you're in an older neighborhood too, like your neighborhood is basically two block. Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Oh okay. Okay. Yeah. Our we're. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Exactly. Moved. Yeah. He always talks about it too. Yeah. Well, anyway, get out there. Check out, Jason Paxton's art. I greatly appreciate you guys. You know, you coming in. I greatly appreciate you, Phil, blessing us with your presence. Yep. And, Yeah. So, what's your Instagram again?

Jason paxman? Yeah, with underscores. There's a verified blue checkmark next to it. your, at Laughter Day Saints comedy. All one word. That's the, show page that I run for. The comedy confessional. Yeah. Once a month at the Griffin. Yep. And hopefully hitting the road soon. One day. Yeah. Fuck it. Yeah. I'm excited for you, dude. I think you got a really good formula. It's. It was fun as fuck, and it's repeatable and scalable, which is awesome. So yeah. So peace out guys. Thank you so much for listening.

Get tattooed, say nice things to tattooers that you know, slide into the DMs. Just make somebody feel good. Yeah. Send them some love. All right guys. Goes a long way. It does. Yes. Peace.